Who Thought It'd Be A Good Idea To Have Three 12 Hour Waiting Times As Part Of A Mission?

[Davoodoo]

You have never done one of the Legendary quests in WoW then.

 

Need to obtain more patience.

Ive done it, sulfuras on classic, later shadowmourne on wotlk and even capes on few alts on mop.

 

Not only reward was worth going for that quest, most of the time, except classic you did what you was always doing, killing bosses in raids with occasional special action. You had fun with game and you also got legendary rewards, nice.

 

You cant compare it to sidegrade frame with extra grind granting only her.

 

3.5 days is the compromise for old, "boring" frames. New frames (and weapons) have always been harder to get. What the situation with Mirage is going to be 6 or 24 months from now, I have no idea. Heck, Rhino or Hydroid are still pretty hard to get even now, months after their release (let alone Vauban). If Mirage still takes that one extra day to get by a similar point in the future, I will completely understand people complaining about it.

 

But my point is, for now, as a brand new frame, just after release, Mirage is surprisingly easy to get. Easier and quicker than any recent new frame. Of course, people have a right to complain, I even agree to the point that I wish she was even quicker to obtain (goes for all warframes, really). I'm just saying a little perspective and less exageration is in order.

DE claimed that all warframes will be sidegrades and more or less they are.

3.5day is compromise for all frames, even mirage havent changed specific crafting times, its that quest that took out your ability to craft all parts at once.

 

I wanted to do jackal some time ago i got all parts within 4 runs with spare helmet, 5th run to start kubrow quest awarded me with another chassis.

Hydroid took me 6 runs and less than a day.

 

Compared to rng it may seem easy, but in reality if youre willing it takes longer.

 

Quests was supposed to improve gear acquisition, it improved in accesibility but further delayed, kubrow havent improved on any of these aspects, its just plain old rng grind.

[CaptainJohnson]

Waiting what amounts to be an extra day isn't really a big deal for the entire removal of RNG from the system. You don't even have to run the same boss run a dozen times to get all the pieces, just wait half a day before you run another mission. That's really not a big deal, no matter how you slice it. This is a much better solution than Hydroid's shenaniganry, which I wasn't even opposed to in the first place.

 

Ultimately, you're spending less time grinding each mission and more down time where you can take a break from Warframe and work on something else (for those of us who have other things we need to do) or work on leveling some of our other gear and fulfilling the other Quests (for those of us who don't have other things we need to do).

 

What makes Mirage different is simply that she's new. That's always how it's been, and simply because DE wants to generate some revenue for the people who don't want to wait but are that eager to obtain Mirage. The people who have done that have all said nothing but praise for Mirage and she's a well-balanced frame that I'm willing to deal with waiting one more day for.

[theammostore]

Entertain yourself, multitask, do several things at once. While that's going start up the kubrow quest. Go try some different missions like Kepler on Phobos, or a high level intereption. Do things outside the norm. Don't sit there and go 'man I sure wish this damn thing would hurry up, I have a game to play.' Stop focusing on the goal and more on the journey.

 

If your intents are to come into this game and just 'get the new stuff and play warframe' and not, 'let's play warframe and see if we can get the new stuff,' you might not be enjoying this game as much as you think you do. You're putting priority on the exact way you are going to burn yourself out.

[Davoodoo]

Waiting what amounts to be an extra day isn't really a big deal for the entire removal of RNG from the system. You don't even have to run the same boss run a dozen times to get all the pieces, just wait half a day before you run another mission. That's really not a big deal, no matter how you slice it. This is a much better solution than Hydroid's shenaniganry, which I wasn't even opposed to in the first place.

 

Ultimately, you're spending less time grinding each mission and more down time where you can take a break from Warframe and work on something else (for those of us who have other things we need to do) or work on leveling some of our other gear and fulfilling the other Quests (for those of us who don't have other things we need to do).

 

What makes Mirage different is simply that she's new. That's always how it's been, and simply because DE wants to generate some revenue for the people who don't want to wait but are that eager to obtain Mirage. The people who have done that have all said nothing but praise for Mirage and she's a well-balanced frame that I'm willing to deal with waiting one more day for.

It is a great deal, removal of rng havent removed grind, i would consider it great addition only if grind was completely reliable(it is) and it didnt replace rng with other crap(timewall added).

If you say that its not a big deal then they wont hesitate to put next frame on 5.5day crafting time next one on 7 days next one on 10 days and so on, because it isnt big deal. They already done that once by 1st adding nekros locked behind keys and later introducing even harder to obtain key on hydroid.

 

Lets be honest getting any regular frame was never hard with exception of bugged drops from raptor(dropped anything once in 20 runs and usually it got stuck behind map borders) and hydroid beacon hunt. Few runs on each boss with occasional flux of bad luck resulting in extra runs.

 

I can understand revenue but if they truly want bigger revenue then they should create more and better content and make prices more reasonable.

If someone doesnt want to pay for 3.5day then its very unlikely that he will want to pay for 4.5day.

 

I completed their whole 14.0.x in 2 days, from what gameplay time for me was 3hours and thats due to spending alot of time farming egg.

Biggest update up to date provided me with 3 hours unique gameplay. New set of 5mans on wow provide more gameplay, new map on battlefield will provide more gameplay without replaying same mode even once. I know its due to player ships, but community told them there are better things to do than player ships.

Artificially delaying players progress doesnt mean that their content is longer, you just wait more for next part of it.

If rest of kubrows quest wont add at least another hour then amount of content will be indeed really small.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[notlamprey]

I'll jump in here and say that I don't mind it terribly myself.

 

I'd rather see a well-defined wait time structure than a whole bunch of nebulous, "who knows when you'll get it you schlub?" RNG.

 

It's unpleasantly reminiscent of games that abuse players with super long wait times that can be real-money bypassed - I'm looking at you, Dungeon Keeper Mobile.

 

At this point, the wait time doesn't seem objectionable to me. That's me though. I wouldn't blame anyone for being uneasy about it. DE is taking the opportunity to test some stuff, and I can't pretend to know their motivations for it.

[KenseiSeraph]

A friend of mine bought Mirage straight (in the Update 14 bundle) and of course it comes with a hidden message.

This means he now has Mirage and all the parts to craft a second Mirage.

Of course complete Warframes and crafted Warframe parts cannot be traded so this was most likely done to prevent cheap Mirage sales.

[unknow99]

I don't wanna nerf her. But the threads will come when people do get her.

But the excuse for low durability isn't a good one. Even Rhino who is one of the most durable frame had his IS nerfed to the ground.

I can assure you tenno,I'm not like the crybabies who left the game because Trinity can't go invincible anymore. This game mist keep a challenge whenever.

If they find a way to make her balanced for people who don't see her that way,then so be it.(I find her balanced D.E. :p )

I just don't want her to be left behind the "commonly viable" frames.(Like Ember & Nekros,only used to desecrate things.You'll say that they aren't bad,and I agree with you,bit their powers could give a lot more)

Look at her powers : decoys cloning and multiplied damage,traps(useful for stealth especially),cloak/resistance increased vs buff damage in the light, and Kameha/disco ball. That's fantastic :D !! And some want to change it? Okayy but not to much and carefully,right?...

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

12+12+12+72= 108 hours. 

 

 

Yes. Unthinkable. 

you forgot the time it takes to build the quest.

 

that aside, time=money

if you want to use less time, start paying money.

 

oooooor back to the grind. at least it isnt like loki/rhino/void stuff where the average time to get the pieces is much longer + wait times on the pieces.

[Sairus002]

To make matters worse, the Systems I was building got randomly cancelled and I had to start it over again, consuming another orokin cell and wasting 12 more hours. Either the hotfix today did it, or I found yet another bug.

[SolarDwagon]

Something to remember is that it's not "grind" at all. It *is* a timewall, but as someone has pointed out, new clantech has that too. Lets at least frame the argument about the right things.

[Liu_Cypher]

Would rather have a 1 week waiting time for a frame with a guarantee to get all parts/bp and have the frame than spend a week farming for parts with no guarantee that you will get them all.

 

Spending 4 days working on a quest that guarantees you a frame is by far a better option than the rng wall.

[[DE]Momaw]

I have mixed feelings on this.  On the one hand it's irritating having to wait between parts when every other warframe lets you get all the parts and build them in parallel.  But on the other hand, there is no RNG involved here;  you only need to do 5 easy vault runs and then a few easy Solar missions to get it everything.  Which do you hate more: having to wait between building parts, or spending days running Void missions hoping for that 1-in-a-hundred drop you need to finish the set?   Or farming 600 Oxium for Zephyr?

[Lowsodium]

It's better than RNG.

[Sev7n]

No we don't wanna wait or skip the wait in a quest. This is part of a quest! Tell me one game where a part of the quest is required for you to wait for hours upon hours in real time.

 

Rift

Vindictus

Edited July 21, 2014 by Sev7n

[elele]

No we don't wanna wait or skip the wait in a quest. This is part of a quest! Tell me one game where a part of the quest is required for you to wait for hours upon hours in real time.

 

STALKER has some quests that require you to wait until it's night time in game. About half an hour waiting in real life. 

 

Just do some other stuff while you wait. 

[izzatuw]

Well, I'm finally building Mirage. If you quickly do a mission quickly early in the morning. Like 8-9 AM you can claim it at night time and do the next part. It doesn't sound as bad it seems but still, waiting that long to unlock a next part of a quest is a big no. If this were to happen in games like Borderlands or Fallout I'd rage.

[Innocent_Flower]

It's better than RNG.

Better? maybe? good? no

[LoneTonberry]

Seriously? This of all things? You're getting guaranteed drops of the parts from a fairly easy quest chain. Granted yes currently the third part is bugged and you don't get the hint for it but seriously. For every person that's able to get all of the parts to a frame that drops from a boss within an hour there's another one, maybe another couple that spend days and days farming the same boss trying to get that last part. Realistically what happened was they added a day to you trying to build the frame. It's seriously not as bad as you're making it out to be. 

 

In the interest of full disclosure. I was disappointed myself when I found out that I had to finish building the piece of Mirage I got before I could do the next part of the quest but here's the difference. I simply said "Ah well, I'll get it when the piece finishes" and went about doing something else. It's not bad game design not letting you immediately get the next piece guaranteed after getting the next one. It's a trade off, you can have guaranteed drops but you have to wait for them versus the drops not being guaranteed and you being able to run it as much as you want in order to get them. Method one you have a guaranteed drop but a guaranteed wait. Much like clan research where you can replicate the BP as much as you want once you research it. Method two you could spend as little as half an hour or as long as two weeks (I actually had a friend for whom it actually took him this long to farm for Rhino.) But what's the actual difference between these? You lose the feeling of instant gratification and you have to wait 4.5 days instead of 3.5 days.

 

Yes in your opinion this might be bad game design but in my opinion it's an acceptable trade off to guarantee getting the parts of the frame.

[dllindsey]

lol its funny seeing some of you rage, rant, and complain. yes it sucks to wait...but its a guaranteed warframe piece. you could get fked over by queen rng and get the chasis 50 times in a row. where does that leave you? upset just like you are now. so just be thankful that they are giving you a 100% chance to get each piece because it could be worse. It could be like the hydroid pieces. farm for triangulator pieces, wait an hour, kill ruk, get chasis. farm for more triangulator pieces, wait an hour, kill ruk, get chasis again. actually you know what..i think this is a good idea....farm for 100 triangulator pieces of each item (4 items in total) and make you all spend a whole day getting 100 of them. maybe then you will be thankful for a quest. (the requirement is 100 for each item)

Edited July 21, 2014 by dllindsey

[Davoodoo]

lol its funny seeing some of you rage, rant, and complain. yes it sucks to wait...but its a guaranteed warframe piece. you could get fked over by queen rng and get the chasis 50 times in a row. where does that leave you? upset just like you are now. so just be thankful that they are giving you a 100% chance to get each piece because it could be worse. It could be like the hydroid pieces. farm for triangulator pieces, wait an hour, kill ruk, get chasis. farm for more triangulator pieces, wait an hour, kill ruk, get chasis again. actually you know what..i think this is a good idea....farm for 100 triangulator pieces of each item (4 items in total) and make you all spend a whole day getting 100 of them. maybe then you will be thankful for a quest. (the requirement is 100 for each item)

Hmm, i seem to be only one who had more problem getting single vay hek key than getting all parts.

Keyshare is the thing and you didnt even need to have a clan, 5 runs and everyone was happy after getting all parts. Many got their hydroid without even farming for key due to awesome ppl who decided to share theirs on recruitment.

 

You forget that you also need to grind for mirage, argon and 5 ciphers, thats 5 chances less to get loot and yes you can say that 5 chances probably wouldnt yield me what i want, but it @(*()$ should. 

I wont be grateful to them for doing what they already should do, then @(*()$ it up again by adding timewall and if you believe that justice was done by that then you simply doesnt understand what the problem was in 1st place or dont want to understand.

[Dookysharpgun]

I agree, it's utterly pointless and is starting to resemble something akin to the 'free-to-wait' mechanic of dungeon keeper mobile. It essentially forces the player to wait it out in a game whose UI overhaul means you can't see the number of people in a given node to know if you've a chance to play, meaning that you can't actually play missions anymore while you wait. To show an example of this: following some new weapons and mod upgrades, I'm down to 100K. Prior to the mod, I could jump onto a Dark Sector, and play away until I made my money back, Now? If there is anyone playing, I can't join them, since they've seemingly removed the ability to drop-in. If there are people in areas, I don't know whether they're even or odd numbered, so I may, but most likely, may not get a spot. It's gotten so bad that I've actually stopped playing outright, and don't plan to go back to it this evening and I know of many people who are doing the same, and have noticed the exact same issues as I have. The issue is that what DE were aiming for isn't working due to the changes they implemented. I'm just going to say it: update 14 is a disaster and it may very well sink Warframe, due to the very transparent money-grabbing antics of DE. There are too many issues and not enough being done to rectify them to keep the game alive.

[LoneTonberry]

I agree, it's utterly pointless and is starting to resemble something akin to the 'free-to-wait' mechanic of dungeon keeper mobile. It essentially forces the player to wait it out in a game whose UI overhaul means you can't see the number of people in a given node to know if you've a chance to play, meaning that you can't actually play missions anymore while you wait. To show an example of this: following some new weapons and mod upgrades, I'm down to 100K. Prior to the mod, I could jump onto a Dark Sector, and play away until I made my money back, Now? If there is anyone playing, I can't join them, since they've seemingly removed the ability to drop-in. If there are people in areas, I don't know whether they're even or odd numbered, so I may, but most likely, may not get a spot. It's gotten so bad that I've actually stopped playing outright, and don't plan to go back to it this evening and I know of many people who are doing the same, and have noticed the exact same issues as I have. The issue is that what DE were aiming for isn't working due to the changes they implemented. I'm just going to say it: update 14 is a disaster and it may very well sink Warframe, due to the very transparent money-grabbing antics of DE. There are too many issues and not enough being done to rectify them to keep the game alive.

 

First off, bring up the issues you have with the UI specifically in feedback. If the people that have issues with the UI come up and actually say so they will make changes to make it better. It's a new UI so there's bound to be things that they didn't think of or didn't work out how they wanted.

 

Next, to my knowledge DE has not removed the ability to drop in on missions. The only problem is that with Survival and Defense you can't drop into the mission after you've hit 5 minutes or wave 5 to prevent people from abusing the mechanics. (Leaving to get an item in Defense and then dropping back in to continue or having friends drop into your survival after you've already picked up an item that they want.) The fact that the UI doesn't seem to be showing the number of active squads on a node anymore doesn't seem to be really helping since you can't see where people are massing up to farm but that is a feature I'm sure DE will put back so long as it's brought up to them.

 

I personally don't see how this is cash grab esque at all. This is the first actual business day after U14 shipped. There was probably a very minimal staff in the office over the weekend to address the game breaking issues and that was it. I think it's a little extreme to say that this update killed the game because of a few hiccups that the main bulk of their dev team probably only just today got the chance to start addressing.

[Davoodoo]

-snip-

I also noticed some problems with matchmaking. since u14 hit i dont remember even 1 case of anyone joining me ingame unless i invited them.

Works fine if you arent ingame but ingame random joining simply doesnt happen.

[Dookysharpgun]

First off, bring up the issues you have with the UI specifically in feedback. If the people that have issues with the UI come up and actually say so they will make changes to make it better. It's a new UI so there's bound to be things that they didn't think of or didn't work out how they wanted.

 

Next, to my knowledge DE has not removed the ability to drop in on missions. The only problem is that with Survival and Defense you can't drop into the mission after you've hit 5 minutes or wave 5 to prevent people from abusing the mechanics. (Leaving to get an item in Defense and then dropping back in to continue or having friends drop into your survival after you've already picked up an item that they want.) The fact that the UI doesn't seem to be showing the number of active squads on a node anymore doesn't seem to be really helping since you can't see where people are massing up to farm but that is a feature I'm sure DE will put back so long as it's brought up to them.

 

I personally don't see how this is cash grab esque at all. This is the first actual business day after U14 shipped. There was probably a very minimal staff in the office over the weekend to address the game breaking issues and that was it. I think it's a little extreme to say that this update killed the game because of a few hiccups that the main bulk of their dev team probably only just today got the chance to start addressing.

 

You mean, in the massive thread that has 200+ pages to get through, that'll never possibly be dealt with in a timely fashion? Did that. There's also no excusing poor decisions, no matter what the reason. They're developers, and they should embrace the old saying: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It would've solved hundreds of problems here.

 

I'm well aware of that, my problem is that it seems everyone nowadays is past wave five or five minutes into those missions, so, y'know, either the whole thing is borked, or things have gotten much easier for people to get through faster. My problem is that the mechanic to see the number of people never should have been removed in the first place. It's removal was downright stupid, there's really no other term to use for it. The very fact that the player have to point this out to the developers decimates confidence in their capabilities.

 

Here's my issue with these - and it's what they are - excuses: they chose to release the update in this abhorrent state, when they could very well not have the staff to man updates. Bare in mind that there have been 2 small updates over the last few days, it means they're doing something, and therefore had been prepared, very minimally, for fallout from this update, despite it being " the most ambitious update" (I'm quoting them directly here) they've done. I think when a developer releases an update that makes the game void it's bowels - metaphorically speaking - and doesn't seem to be keeping the community updated on when or how they'll be fixing this mess that they've made, making the game virtually unplayable and unstable, then it does signal a death-knell for the title. People are obviously unhappy, but I've seen more than a few people admit that they're leaving the game until it gets fixed, but they fully admit that they may not come back to it. I myself have stopped playing until it gets a proper fix, and even then, lord knows how many people will continue to play, given how it's gravitating towards 'free-to-wait' or 'pay-to-play' mechanics. 

[Lotus]

Shouldn't people complaining about mirage be complaining about Vauban as well? I think people just want things then and there. It's something I've noticed among a lot of Warframe players; they don't have any patience and in a game like this it's all about patience.