The Extremely Apologetic Kubrow Thread

[Clawbo]

Let me get one thing straight, right away;

I will not tolerate pompous, elitist behavior. I encourage civilized discussions on the topics I am about to advocate. If you even plan on writing anything along the lines of "lel git gud", feel free to leave right away. While I may not do much to you, I will promptly ignore you and any of your attempts to communicate hateful/brash behavior.

Now that that's out of the way, I would like to discuss the topic of Kubrows, their execution in-game, their maintenance accessibility. I will attempt to do so from both the perspective of a new and veteran player.

For those of you who (God knows why) don't know what Kubrows are, they are genetically engineered Orokin war-beasts that are similar to dogs in appearance, though they have bear-like paws and bat-like ears. They are designed to be a companion to the player that features a degree of interaction unseen prior to U14, as opposed to the automatized Sentinels.

One of the more infamous points of the Kubrow is their maintenance cost. Let me just say prior to this, you are required to pay 150,000 (one-hundred-fifty-thousand) credits for both the blueprint and the manufacturing of the Kubrow Incubator Power Core. That is a one-time expenditure. You are, however, required to manufacture (not buy additional blueprints) additional cores for each subsequent Kubrow you wish to obtain.

Once a Kubrow is hatched, they will have a DNA integrity scale that starts out at 100% and gives them 100% more health, up from their base health. This DNA integrity degrades naturally over time by 20% on each login cycle. To counteract this, players can buy a kit of 6 DNA stabilizers from the market for 100,000 (one-hundred-thousand) credits, with each stabilizer restoring 40% integrity. Basic mathematics tell us that in order to keep your Kubrow in prime shape, you need to spend one stabilizer every 2 days, which ultimately leads to one bundle of those lasting for 12 days.

Here is where the community gets vocal.

*From the perspective of the new player, while the initial manufacturing cost may be surmountable, albeit not without difficulty, the maintenance cost of a Kubrow is simply too much; they are required to halt any progress on their Warframes and weapons and focus solely on farming enough credits to maintain their pet. There may be breathing room over the course of 12 days, but the expense is still too high.

*From a veteran's point of view, this expense is negligible. A lot of the people who believe the current maintenance system is fine support the claim that A) A couple of runs on Sechura, Pluto (approximately 5 runs of 5 minutes each) will net you the credits required, and B) Kubrows are not a new player commodity and are left to the veterans to utilize.

This is where opinions diverge and things get heated.

Personally, I am a Mastery Rank 5 player. I have clocked only 120 hours into the game. I have completed about 60% of the Solar map and have ventured into the Void quite a number of times. I am able to solo T2 Void missions without a hitch, T3 is a little hairy and I need a team to back me up, and T4... lel.

From that, I could safely say that I am an upper-intermediate player. I am by no means an expert-- I still struggle on certain maps-- but I am also not a newcomer.

This leaves me torn on the Kubrow part. Personally, in real life, I adore dogs. I can't keep one because my apartment is too small to accommodate another living being. Make no mistake, I would love to have one. Which is why I was absolutely delighted when I saw the Kubrow were being introduced.

So I am forced to either severely hamper my overall progress in favor of my furry little pal, or to ignore him completely and put him into stasis in order to progress as I usually would. In my humble opinion, that is not right. It completely negates the original intent of the Kubrow.

Those who would argue that a Kubrow is not meant to be handled by new players need to keep in mind that you get the quest from defeating Jackal on Venus; essentially your second boss. The quest then takes to Earth and there you obtain the egg and the rest of what you need. In your first two planets you get started on the whole deal.

"But you need an Argon crystal AND 150k credits for the Power Core." -- You

True. Argon is mainly obtained in the void. You can also get Argon from Phorid, even early on if the infestation occurs on a low level planet. You can also get taxied into the Void, but a new player would be torn to pieces in it.

Then again, Void is easily doable with a team in lower-intermediate levels, because T1 maps have enemies with a level range of 10-20, depending on the game mode. Very doable by relatively new players, with a decent chance of getting an Argon Crystal. All in all, making a power core is a relatively difficult task, one that will put a sizable dent into your space ninja pocket. But it is a one time expenditure. Unless you want another Kubrow, but that's a different thing.

This is where the deterioration comes in. If a Kubrow reaches -100% genetic integrity, they die. For good. I will dig around the forums to support this claim, and will edit this when I find the evidence.

 

EDIT: Found it. Taken from https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/272887-kubrow-is-more-trouble-than-its-worth/;

 

"A general discussion post: https://forums.warfr...ie-permanently/

 

It seems a Reddit user dug up some Lotus dialogue that would entail nicely with the event of a Kubrow death as a result of DNA degradation and not receiving enough DNA stabilizers to keep its health above -100%.

"/Lotus/Language/Menu/ToxicityEffectFeedback1": "|PET_NAME| is malnourished and dying.""/Lotus/Language/Menu/ToxicityDeathMessageContent": "|PET_NAME| has died due a breakdown in its DNA sequence.""/Lotus/Language/Menu/ToxicityDeathMessageSubject": "Your kubrow has died.""

This is why 100k credits may be a lot. Kubrows should be accessible to everyone. Elite players who argue that Kubrows shouldn't be accessible to newbies make no sense. How does that affect you? How would making the Kubrows easier to maintain affect your experience in a negative manner? Do you want to deter players from this game or not?

Here is a list of possible solution that vary in their complexity and execution;

1) Possibly the simplest one, reduce the cost of the DNA Integrity Restoration kit to something like 50-75k. While it would still be a hefty sum to newer players, it would be much more attainable for a recurring cost, and veterans will still have a credit sink that they can just stack up on and be set for a long period of time. I've heard that veterans don't even feel the dent in their budget while buying this kit.

2) Remove the permanent Kubrow death. Sentinels can't die permanently. You can't die permanently. Kubrows are notoriously difficult/RNG-dependant to come by. I know this puts a sense of urgency and interaction between the player and the Kubrow, but it is too severe. For the amount of effort people put into obtaining these delights, the given possibility of losing them for good is a poor game design choice.

3) Make the Kubrow easier to obtain by making eggs drop more frequently. Self explanatory. While it may seem a little cruel, even if you were to lose your pal for good, you could replace him somewhat more easily.

This sums up what I have to say on this topic. Remember, not everyone plays equally, and making the Kubrow a chore instead of a companion is a bad decision and should be remedied asap. Not everyone can run Void/Derelict/Sechura/Dark Sectors as easily as you can.

All of you vets out there, remember, you were new at one point too. I respect your dedication to the game, immensely so. But don't condescend others just because they're new. They are starting a brand new journey, one that will enhance their lives. Don't take it away from them.

 

That is all for now. I may edit the topic to improve the flow of this "essay" or to provide additional info as it comes up. Thank you all for reading, and I hope DE will improve the Kubrow experience for us all.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Clawbo

[DeathKoala]

Kubrows are for those with the time/resources to take care of them, sentinels are for everyone else. And in case you've forgotten, sentinel blueprints are 100k credits each, not counting manufacturing costs, or research costs in the case of Helios and Djinn.

[TheErebus.]

As a kubrow lover and someone who will use it to the end of the game. I agree with most points people bring up (the upkeep is quite high, I personally think it should 10,000 creds at most, and this is coming from someone who has been here since closed beta)

What I don't accept is people saying that they have no use whatsoever and that they shouldn't even exist. 

 

And trust me, seeing people saying "go get a carrier" is just as annoying as you seeing people say "lel it ins't hurd to go git 100,000 creds".

Edited July 25, 2014 by TheErebus

[Circle_of_Psi]

I have to agree to all of this. 100%.

 

I got my "dog" due to left over Plant from the store, a foolish mistake but hay, I got a savage dog and well I named it too quickly to even think what gender mine is, and with nothing to tell me what gender it is im stuck with a all gender dog called "Void".

 

Although that the voice tone is quite deep,as making it seem its a boy but the black device on its neck has pink lights inside making me think its female. So Im considering it letting her pass on and getting a new one that I whuold love.

 

But I have to agree with everything that you listed here, I will even add my own now below yours.

 

4. Allow you to let your Kubrow out to the wild: Petty much self explanatory if you don't want your loving pet trade him or her or let it free.

 

5. Codex Like Info: I used them DNA scanners to find out they do jack, or I'm just too dumb to reliase what they really do but I tryed scanning my dog with a scanner and still nothing, so an information bar telling its gender name class hair syle etc will be ideal for new players and vet.

 

 

I hope the DE take this and consider doing changes, its not needed but we can hope

Edited July 25, 2014 by LegionCynex

[SquirmyBurrito]

I don't think Kubrow/Kubrows are supposed to be for new players... Just as a real life pet isn't for someone who can't afford to take care of it.

 

I say this because the thought of a veteran aimed credit sink, being intended for new player use too just doesn't make sense in my mind.

Edited July 25, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[TheErebus.]

I don't think Kubrow/Kubrows are supposed to be for new players... Just as a real life pet isn't for someone who can't afford to take care of it.

That's why DE should change the boss fight required to get the kubrow to the hyena pack. Not the jackal.

[Clawbo]

Kubrows are for those with the time/resources to take care of them, sentinels are for everyone else. And in case you've forgotten, sentinel blueprints are 100k credits each, not counting manufacturing costs, or research costs in the case of Helios and Djinn.

 

Very well. In that case, push the quest into deeper, more dificult territory. Not on Venus. Seriously, it takes what, 2 hours tops to get there, maybe 1 hour more to off Jackal? And Sentinel blueprints/manufacture are one time expenses. You are not forced to maintain your Sentinel as you are forced to keep your Kubrow up if you don't want him/her to die. I agree, Sentinels are much more accessible. The difficulty of keeping a Kubrow needs to be compensated in a certain way. Either redo the quest or reduce the costs.

 

As a kubrow lover and someone who will use it to the end of the game. I agree with most points people bring up (the upkeep is quite high, I personally think it should 10,000 creds at most, and this is coming from someone who has been here since closed beta)

What I don't accept is people saying that they have no use whatsoever and that they shouldn't even exist. 

 

And trust me, seeing people saying "go get a carrier" is just as annoying as you seeing people say "lel it ins't hurd to go git 100,000 creds".

 

Exactly. I think that Kubrows are much better than Sentinels in many aspects, but their death is MUCH more penalizing.

 

I have to agree to all of this. 100%

 

Thank you for taking your time to read this. My fingers hurt lol

[Circle_of_Psi]

Thank you for taking your time to read this. My fingers hurt lol

lol your welcome but I did edit my post a bit

[Nalo1993]

-snip-

I couldn't agree more with the points you made, I love the idea of the Kubrows but the way they were put out seemed rushed. I am a Veteran player, but I don't tend to keep a large amount of credits on me (I have normally around 120-140k at a time).

 

P.S. Kudos on the "vets, remember" part.

[Clawbo]

I don't think Kubrow/Kubrows are supposed to be for new players... Just as a real life pet isn't for someone who can't afford to take care of it.

 

I say this because the thought of a veteran aimed credit sink, being intended for new player use too just doesn't make sense in my mind.

 

Pardon the double post I am about to make. Looks like I didn't make a double post after all, heh.

 

Yes, keeping a pet is hard work, not for the uninitiated. I'm saying that the quest placement is off-putting. It's too early in the game to make sense, given the difficulty of Kubrow upkeep.

 

But pray tell, why shouldn't the Kubrow be accessible to newer players? Can't DE put in a different Credit sink? Why not put in an Affinity booster that costs 2 million credits? It is a sizable sink, and it'd help vets level that MR fodder they want to get rid of as quickly as possible.

 

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit with the affinity booster part. My point is, there are more ways to put in credit sinks. In my opinion, Kubrows are well on their way to becoming a core part of the Warframe experience. The idea is splendid. The execution... not so much. Everyone should be able to enjoy them, WHILE paying a reasonable maintenance cost. You don't want Warframe to turn into a job, do you?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Clawbo

[Noblesse_0blige]

Smart conversation is smart, have a few additions to your point 2.

 

While perma-death is bad, it is supposed to make you bond with them; however the way they go about ti is kinda wrong. My best replacement is death of the kubrow and the inability to take him into missions again until you heal him back up to 0% again, so while it is punishing, it isn't killing off your tiny bundle of cloned flesh. I mean what cloner doesn't keep at least a single cell of the subject in some sort of safe storage?

[Rexlars]

Honestly it was TL;DR, but I have read the comments so I will say this..

 

I've had a Kubrow since the launch of U14 & I haven't used a DNA stabilizer once. He's been at 80% health since a day before he matured & every day after that. Maybe it's just me, but the DNA stabilizers don't seem like that much of a necessity. 

[TheErebus.]

Honestly it was TL;DR, but I have read the comments so I will say this..

 

I've had a Kubrow since the launch of U14 & I haven't used a DNA stabilizer once. He's been at 80% health since a day before he matured & every day after that. Maybe it's just me, but the DNA stabilizers don't seem like that much of a necessity. 

Wait so his health hasn't decreased at all? Have you put him in cryostasis constantly?

[Phatose]

Perhaps they can keep the degradation, but only have permadeath if it's a absolute minimum health, you take it into a mission and it gets killed in mission.

[(PSN)ZMPr0wLer]

I know I am ps4 player I did believed that these kubrow are for more higher lvl players as a credit sink and yes it should be moved deeper to Neptune as when you can run Neptune you will most likely be able to afford it.

[Clawbo]

Smart conversation is smart, have a few additions to your point 2.

 

While perma-death is bad, it is supposed to make you bond with them; however the way they go about ti is kinda wrong. My best replacement is death of the kubrow and the inability to take him into missions again until you heal him back up to 0% again, so while it is punishing, it isn't killing off your tiny bundle of cloned flesh. I mean what cloner doesn't keep at least a single cell of the subject in some sort of safe storage?

 

Thank you very much, and I have to say that I've seen a post somewhere that explains an injury system that could alter the permadeath system to a degree, or at least make it more managable/logical. Will post it when I find it.

 

Honestly it was TL;DR, but I have read the comments so I will say this..

 

I've had a Kubrow since the launch of U14 & I haven't used a DNA stabilizer once. He's been at 80% health since a day before he matured & every day after that. Maybe it's just me, but the DNA stabilizers don't seem like that much of a necessity. 

 

That's... weird. DNA integrity is supposed to degrade every login cycle. Something's off.

[KairaSilvermist]

I saw a few people bring up a different possibility for Kubrow, as opposed t the current system;

 

If you don't login during the day, or don't interact with them, their loyalty goes down, instead of their HP, and their HP doesn't drop unless they fall during a mission.

 

Honestly, I'd prefer if they did that. I'm a veteran player, who barely gets more than 121K at a time, and I blow through MOST of that trying to upgrade mods that I still haven't upgraded, due to not having fusion cores at all.

[Clawbo]

I saw a few people bring up a different possibility for Kubrow, as opposed t the current system;

 

If you don't login during the day, or don't interact with them, their loyalty goes down, instead of their HP, and their HP doesn't drop unless they fall during a mission.

 

Honestly, I'd prefer if they did that. I'm a veteran player, who barely gets more than 121K at a time, and I blow through MOST of that trying to upgrade mods that I still haven't upgraded, due to not having fusion cores at all.

 

I can't find the link to the injury system mentioned, so I'll just give a summary.

 

DNA detoriation over time is still a thing. However, it goes from 100% to 0%, and can't take it below 0% on its own.

 

However, if a Kubrow dies in a mission, they will sustain an injury which will incur another penalty to DNA integrity that CAN go below 0%. If you allow the accumulated injuries to take the Kubrow's DNA integrity to -100% or lower, they die. So you are punished for utterly neglecting and mistreating your pet.

 

Kubrow heal injuries naturally over time, say, one injury every 4 hours. If you put them into stasis, the amount of time required for an injury to heal is halved. Keep in mind that taking your puppy out of stasis takes 3 hours, so it's not as sweet as it sounds.

 

DNA integrity restoration kits would work just as they have worked up until now.

[SquirmyBurrito]

That's why DE should change the boss fight required to get the kubrow to the hyena pack. Not the jackal.

Pardon the double post I am about to make. Looks like I didn't make a double post after all, heh.

 

Yes, keeping a pet is hard work, not for the uninitiated. I'm saying that the quest placement is off-putting. It's too early in the game to make sense, given the difficulty of Kubrow upkeep.

 

But pray tell, why shouldn't the Kubrow be accessible to newer players? Can't DE put in a different Credit sink? Why not put in an Affinity booster that costs 2 million credits? It is a sizable sink, and it'd help vets level that MR fodder they want to get rid of as quickly as possible.

 

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit with the affinity booster part. My point is, there are more ways to put in credit sinks. In my opinion, Kubrows are well on their way to becoming a core part of the Warframe experience. The idea is splendid. The execution... not so much. Everyone should be able to enjoy them, WHILE paying a reasonable maintenance cost. You don't want Warframe to turn into a job, do you?

 

I agree with both of you. I don't understand why DE would make jackal the target... It should either be moved to Hyena or maybe be a drop off Zanuka. Something harder but still four legged. The only reason I can think of DE putting it on Jackal was so players could find out about it and slowly build their way up to the resources (but that isn't really a good idea).

 

I didn't say they shouldn't, only that the current state as a credit sink make it really hard. Affinity Boosters aren't supposed to be credit sinks, they're part of what DE makes money off of. Kubrow are a pretty good idea for the credit sink as it mirrors one's experience with a real life pet. Keeping a four legged mammal of kubrow size (even the smaller ones) isn't something you can do easily if you're making small amounts of money.

 

Another reason I can think of to explain their current state, is what DE was saying prior to the Kubrow release. They were saying that they wouldn't be the kind of thing you could take to every mission (so as to avoid completely killing off Sentinels).

 

Whether or not everyone should be able to use them easily is debatable. There is nothing stopping a new player from getting a Kubrow and maturing it. The only thing hindering them is the cost. If they can find a way to pay it off (which shouldn't be too hard if they're okay with not keeping their Kubrow at 100%), then they can keep it. The same goes for T4 voids. There isn't really anything stopping a new player from going into one...

 

It is going to take a lot more than one new credit sink to turn warframe into a job. 

Edited July 25, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Rexlars]

Wait so his health hasn't decreased at all? Have you put him in cryostasis constantly?

 

At all. It dropped to 80% then stayed there. He was my 1st Kubrow & he's been in stasis once prior to yesterday. Today I began breeding another one. 

 

That's... weird. DNA integrity is supposed to degrade every login cycle. Something's off.

 

Is that fact though? If so, then it's possible that I'm lucky & my Kubrow's DNA Integrity is bugged. 

 

Btw, I went back & read the entire thing. It's well put together; nice read.

 

That being said, I've read that when their DNA Integrity drops completely, it doesn't result in perma-death. It's more of a health booster, similar to how the loyalty system just increases their damage by a percentage; it just increases their max health by a percentage...or so I've read.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Rexlars

[DeccanTraps]

Clear well reasoned, erudite summation of the issues.

 

I can only sympathise as it gets buried under a wall of elitist who have forgotten what it is to be new.

 

Either the quest is placed far too early or the upkeep is much too high.

 

Those who say that Kurbrows are for all players can rightly point to the earliness of The Jackal,  the farming of eggs done on earth, and the various textual bits like Lotus saying 'Every Tenno deserves a warframe' rather than 'Kurbrows are the mark of the most elite Tenno' to say that they are clearly pitched as a goal for intermediate / intermediate early players.

 

Those who claim that they are for end game... Can point at a rather ruinous upkeep. 

 

As far as I am aware the Devs have spoken for neither view point.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that players who cannot afford or cannot easily afford the upkeep (Perhaps they bought with plat? Perhaps they like me whereat a space where 150k is a doable one time cost but not a regular cost) without fair warning of what ownership entails, and are feeling frustrated.

 

That is good for exactly no one. Telling these players to go to pluto is not helping, telling them that the things they were pointed at by the hooks along their path are not for them is not helping. 

 

All the current system is going to do is annoy and dissolution players who might otherwise stick around to spent platinum. Annoyed and disillusioned new players do not stick around. Games with annoyed disillusioned players who did not stick around, who don't play, who don't recommend the game to friends, those games die. 

 

The problem is still worse if you have an over aeger player, who sees the cute thing in their first team mission, buys plat to get the starter kit, and soon runs though the DNA kits it comes with. Now this very very new player has a colossal financial obligation or has to keep on spending plat simply to tread water. Now this is exactly what plat is for to shortcut effort and randomness, but that player is going to get really annoyed as their gene jacked pet becomes a millstone around their neck, and will quite rightfully feel cheated by the game.  

Edited July 25, 2014 by DeccanTraps

[Clawbo]

I agree with both of you. I don't understand why DE would make jackal the target... It should either be moved to Hyena or maybe be a drop off Zanuka. Something harder but still four legged. The only reason I can think of DE putting it on Jackal was so players could find out about it and slowly build their way up to the resources (but that isn't really a good idea).

 

I didn't say they shouldn't, only that the current state as a credit sink make it really hard. Affinity Boosters aren't supposed to be credit sinks, they're part of what DE makes money off of. Kubrow are a pretty good idea for the credit sink as it mirrors one's experience with a real life pet. Keeping a four legged mammal of kubrow size (even the smaller ones) isn't something you can do easily if you're making small amounts of money.

 

Another reason I can think of to explain their current state, is what DE was saying prior to the Kubrow release. They were saying that they wouldn't be the kind of thing you could take to every mission (so as to avoid completely killing off Sentinels).

 

Whether or not everyone should be able to use them easily is debatable. There is nothing stopping a new player from getting a Kubrow and maturing it. The only thing hindering them is the cost. If they can find a way to pay it off (which shouldn't be too hard if they're okay with not keeping their Kubrow at 100%), then they can keep it. The same goes for T4 voids. There isn't really anything stopping a new player from going into one...

 

It is going to take a lot more than one new credit sink to turn warframe into a job. 

 

As I said, I exaggerated on the Affinity booster thing. But that's not to say a lot of other credit sinks can be implemented. And I can understand not being able to take your Kubrow into every mission. You should allow your pet to rest in between tasks. But when he slowly dies from nothing... that's a bit ridiculous.

 

Now feel free to disagree, but I come from playing Dark Souls EXTENSIVELY, a game that was meant to be hardcore through and through. It has no gripes about mauling you to death if you don't pay attention. It doesn't pamper you by pointing out everything in any way, shape or form.

 

Warframe didn't strike me as such a game. Don't get me wrong, it's not meant for the mentally hindered by reducing the difficulty to absurd levels, but it isn't really a hardcore game. Thusly, a warning on the upkeep cost and the overal difficulty should have been implemented in a manner that would make it easier for a player to decide whether or not a digital furball is worth the hassle.

 

At all. It dropped to 80% then stayed there. He was my 1st Kubrow & he's been in stasis once prior to yesterday. Today I began breeding another one. 

 

 

Is that fact though? If so, then it's possible that I'm lucky & my Kubrow's DNA Integrity is bugged. 

 

Btw, I went back & read the entire thing. It's well put together; nice read.

 

That being said, I've read that when their DNA Integrity drops completely, it doesn't result in perma-death. It's more of a health booster, similar to how the loyalty system just increases their damage by a percentage; it just increases their max health by a percentage...or so I've read.

 

It is a fact, through and through. Why my puppy lost 20% of DNA integrity when I logged in the next day to squeeze his chubby little virtual cheeks.

 

Also, I found the evidence of permadeath and linked accordingly, it's in my original post, go check it out if you will, it's quoted there so you don't have to follow any more links. I have the source link in there though, for credibility's sake.

 

Clear well reasoned, erudite summation of the issues.

 

I can only sympathise as it gets buried under a wall of elitist who have forgotten what it is to be new.

 

Either the quest is placed far too early or the upkeep is much too high.

 

Those who say that Kurbrows are for all players can rightly point to the earliness of The Jackal,  the farming of eggs done on earth, and the various textual bits like Lotus saying 'Every Tenno deserves a warframe' rather than 'Kurbrows are the mark of the most elite Tenno' to say that they are clearly pitched as a goal for intermediate / intermediate early players.

 

Those who claim that they are for end game... Can point at a rather ruinous upkeep. 

 

As far as I am aware the Devs have spoken for neither view point.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that players who cannot afford or cannot easily afford the upkeep (Perhaps they bought with plat? Perhaps they like me whereat a space where 150k is a doable one time cost but not a regular cost) without fair warning of what ownership entails, and are feeling frustrated.

 

That is good for exactly no one. Telling these players to go to pluto is not helping, telling them that the things they were pointed at by the hooks along their path are not for them is not helping. 

 

All the current system is going to do is annoy and dissolution players who might otherwise stick around to spent platinum. Annoyed and disillusioned new players do not stick around. Games with annoyed disillusioned players who did not stick around, who don't play, who don't recommend the game to friends, those games die. 

 

Precisely. And thank you for calling me erudite, you made me blush, lol.

 

I have to agree with you in that we're in a certain gray zone when it comes to Kubrows. The devs messed up in one area or another. It's either quest placement/flow or maintenence cost. I would be fine with them fixing either of those, but just fix those for God's sake. I love my Kubrow and I don't want to lose him. Partially because I invested a lot of time and effort in getting him, but mainly because I really did connect with him. I genuinely care about the little fellow, as silly as it sounds.

 

I really don't want to lose him.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Clear well reasoned, erudite summation of the issues.

 

I can only sympathise as it gets buried under a wall of elitist who have forgotten what it is to be new.

 

Either the quest is placed far too early or the upkeep is much too high.

 

Those who say that Kurbrows are for all players can rightly point to the earliness of The Jackal,  the farming of eggs done on earth, and the various textual bits like Lotus saying 'Every Tenno deserves a warframe' rather than 'Kurbrows are the mark of the most elite Tenno' to say that they are clearly pitched as a goal for intermediate / intermediate early players.

 

Those who claim that they are for end game... Can point at a rather ruinous upkeep. 

 

As far as I am aware the Devs have spoken for neither view point.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that players who cannot afford or cannot easily afford the upkeep (Perhaps they bought with plat? Perhaps they like me whereat a space where 150k is a doable one time cost but not a regular cost) without fair warning of what ownership entails, and are feeling frustrated.

 

That is good for exactly no one. Telling these players to go to pluto is not helping, telling them that the things they were pointed at by the hooks along their path are not for them is not helping. 

 

All the current system is going to do is annoy and dissolution players who might otherwise stick around to spent platinum. Annoyed and disillusioned new players do not stick around. Games with annoyed disillusioned players who did not stick around, who don't play, who don't recommend the game to friends, those games die. 

 

The problem is still worse if you have an over aeger player, who sees the cute thing in their first team mission, buys plat to get the starter kit, and soon runs though the DNA kits it comes with. Now this very very new player has a colossal financial obligation or has to keep on spending plat simply to tread water. Now this is exactly what plat is for to shortcut effort and randomness, but that player is going to get really annoyed as their gene jacked pet becomes a millstone around their neck, and will quite rightfully feel cheated by the game.  

 

I do think that DE needs to either lower the upkeep or move the quest to later missions (keep the egg farming on earth for obvious reasons).

 

I don't think the 'new player buys kit with plat and finds out they dun goof'd' argument to be all that sound as stasis does exist, and their DNA does not degrade while they are in stasis. If a player finds out they're in over their head they can (and I know this won't make that player happy) shelve their kubrow until they get to a point where they can afford the upkeep. 

As I said, I exaggerated on the Affinity booster thing. But that's not to say a lot of other credit sinks can be implemented. And I can understand not being able to take your Kubrow into every mission. You should allow your pet to rest in between tasks. But when he slowly dies from nothing... that's a bit ridiculous.

 

Now feel free to disagree, but I come from playing Dark Souls EXTENSIVELY, a game that was meant to be hardcore through and through. It has no gripes about mauling you to death if you don't pay attention. It doesn't pamper you by pointing out everything in any way, shape or form.

 

Warframe didn't strike me as such a game. Don't get me wrong, it's not meant for the mentally hindered by reducing the difficulty to absurd levels, but it isn't really a hardcore game. Thusly, a warning on the upkeep cost and the overal difficulty should have been implemented in a manner that would make it easier for a player to decide whether or not a digital furball is worth the hassle.

 

A credit sink needs to be tempting. A kubrow credit sink is tempting. The Kubrow slowly dying thing is pretty clearly explained.

 

I too come from the Souls franchise.

 

A better explanation of DNA Degradation would be nice I guess.

 

Edit: Kubrow perma-death shouldn't be an issue for anyone unless they have to leave unexpectedly and aren't able to put their kubrow in stasis (or people who lose power/internet access for 10 days). Barring that, kubrow perma-death is just not something anyone should be worried about. If you can't find 10 minutes to log in and freeze your kubrow in 10 days, you obviously have bigger concerns.

Edited July 25, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[DeccanTraps]

You know moving the quest later, keeping the eggs rare, and on earth, but making them tradeable and able to be found without the quest could actually help the economy. Give new players access to a resource that established players want and let some trade help smooth over the new player / old player divide. 

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

Is permadeath really a thing? How does anyone know this? Did DE state this? Enough time hasn't passed yet for anyone to even figure this out. It takes 10 days to go from 100% to -100% since you lose 20% a day. The update hasn't been out for 10 days even. If this is true, then wow. That's a lot of time and effort for your work to permanently disappear in a relatively short period of time. Will wait for the minimum 10 days to pass, and see if someone who rushed their kubrow and never put it stasis and also never used a DNA stabilizer has lost their pet.