Remove Zoren-Coptering And Increase Movement Speed

[Ryouhi]

(sorry if this isn't that well written or i repeat myslef a lot - i'm quite tired today ´x`)

Okay, i have a feeling i'm not gonna get a lot of flak here, but here goes..

 

Ever played online with a squad before?

Yeah, then you probably will have seen Zoren-Coptering, using spin-attacks of certain, mostly fast Melee Weapons which will catapult the player at great speed and big distances.

Sounds ridiculous?

Yeah, that's what it looks like too.

 

It always irks me going into an online match and i already know people will just zip through tiles in a matter of seconds using this 'technique'.

Me on the other hand, i usually get left behind with my Heavy Weapons.

I can't copter myself, nor can i keep up with sprint mods.

Because of that i sometimes actually switch out my weapons for a 'Copter-Weapon' so i don't get left behind.

 

 

These are most of the problems i have with 'Coptering':

1) It looks ridiculous, completely out of place with the flow of the gameplay and less immersive

2) Players that choose Heavy Weapons, or generally Weapons that are bad at coptering often get left behind

3) Players might feel pressured into taking Copter-Weapons so they can keep up with the squad

4) Heavy weapons might seem less desirable

5) Rushers flying through tilesets in seconds

6) Makes the actual Spin-Attack less useful in Combat - zipping 30meters past your target

 

I really think Coptering as a whole should be heavily nerfed or completely removed and in turn the movement speed or sprint speed of all warframes should be increased accordingly.

You would still be able to progress through maps quickly, but you would actually walk and run, instead of flying  and spinning like a maniac.

 

In some threads about this have read numerous times: "But it's hard to pull of, so it adds challenge"

Do you really think so? pressing ctrl+e while running is hard?

And even if it were, it shouldn't warrant leaving such a weird 'feature' in the game.

The only thing it gives me is frustration and probably arthritis..

 

I think the game would look just so much cooler and immersive if players would actually run together into combat instead of everyone flying around with their melees.

I mean, 

 

 

 

What do you guys think?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Ryouhi

[EverythingNagato]

 

These are most of the problems i have with 'Coptering':

1) It looks ridiculous, completely out of place with the flow of the gameplay and less immersive

 

Oh well?

 

2) Players that choose Heavy Weapons, or generally Weapons that are bad at coptering often get left behind

 

Put a sprint mod on. Or do a frontflip in midair. 

(Slide, then press your jump button)

 

3) Players might feel pressured into taking Copter-Weapons so they can keep up with the squad

 

This is just facepalm worthy.. wtf..

What is this, high school?

 

4) Heavy weapons might seem less desirable

No, I still love them. 

 

5) Rushers flying through tilesets in seconds

Yes, so?

 

6) Makes the actual Spin-Attack less useful in Combat - zipping 30meters past your target

 

I have no trouble hitting my enemies. 

 

If you want my thoughts, I'll say it as nicely as possible.

Get over it. 

Edited August 17, 2014 by EverythingNagato

[noveltyhero]

I never once felt pressured into taking coptering weapons. I take what I like because at the end of the day I can keep up with the squad (even beat them) by wallrunning :/

[TheErebus.]

I hate coptering. Because I see it as an exploit.

[ClockworkSpectre]

They have tried to deal with this before and the results were.... not good to say the least.

[RavenousPartyLibrarian]

Coptering is just a bug that DE decided to keep.

 

I do agree that it should just be removed. It was okay when people had fun with it, but now it's just a tool for rushers. I only use slide attacks for killing, or for some more complicated parkour. (Jumping off one level to fall down and slide into the one under, perform a leap of faith and close the last gap with the slide attack, etc. All of these things can be done without coptering.)

 

Using it as general movement is just horrible.

Edited August 17, 2014 by RavenousPartyLibrarian

[Ace_Kayo]

I agree with you. On a game where there is an exp sharing range, this can be a bit ridiculous. Not to mention a lot of people passively level junky melee weapons for mastery (I know I did, lol).

[ra9una]

To stay brief and direct: Nope, I'm good, thanks for the offer.

[Kthal]

I would say that coptering has become a core part of the game, perhaps animations could be tweaked so that aerial spin attacks look different, but complete removal would garner a lot of hate.

 

 

It is entirely possible to keep up with a party who like to copter while you yourself do not. For a while, I ran Galatine purely for the Spin-To-Win combo, and during that period my movement habits changed significantly, funnily enough still using spin attacks as a momentum killer. Admittedly, if you only ever play Rhino with heavy weapons, there is not a lot you can do.

 

Incidentally, spin attacks tend to hit different sides at different distances, so to hit an enemy, you need to gauge which side of them to pass by.

[lolipops5]

solution just use volt speed :D

Edited August 17, 2014 by lolipops5

[TheErebus.]

solution just use volt speed :D

Not everyone uses a volt or has one.

[StickyBaseline]

I agree with you. On a game where there is an exp sharing range, this can be a bit ridiculous. Not to mention a lot of people passively level junky melee weapons for mastery (I know I did, lol).

DE recently removed this restricted range, and made it infinite ;_;

[Ryouhi]

If you want my thoughts, I'll say it as nicely as possible.

Get over it. 

 

To stay brief and direct: Nope, I'm good, thanks for the offer.

 

 

Would be nice if you could elaborate.

Sure if that's your opinion, good for you.

But a simple nope doesn't really mean much

 

How would that really hurt players, they would get movement speed buffs to compensate, in turn you would see players with Heavy weapons being able to keep up better.. and well, genereally less players constantly spinning around

The poor Tenno must already be sick and vomiting inside their suits from all that coptering

[Ace_Kayo]

DE recently removed this restricted range, and made it infinite ;_;

Really? I totally must have missed that change. Do you have the source for this? Wiki still says around 50m for the exp sharing range.

[APBladeX]

Guess what? DE has confirmed they'll be keeping coptering. They may have removed infinite wall-running, but coptering is here to stay.

[Brahmastra]

Coptering is here to stay

 

~DE livestream xx

[Trajhenkhetlive]

It needs to go. It's non immersive. How many people or things do you know gain an increase in travel speed while hand to hand fighting? In fact I'd say the opposite happens. You slow down to try and land blows or retreat. Does the game need a second "run" function? I say just increase everyones run speed and call it a day.

 

Also coptering seems to defeat terrain placement and makes slow frames a bit faster. This could negatively impact stage development as terrain will now have to address players who copter which in turn will force the playerbase to do the maneuvre to just get around. It will take away from parkour and wall running almost render frame maneuvre abilities like Rhino Rush pointless. I think speed boosts in maneuvres should only be repeatable if the frame tags an enemy. SImiliar to how it works in Otogi: Myth of Demons. In that game you can perform acrobatics and float in the air to do combat maneuvres kind of like in Warframe, the caveat being that in order to continue to perform the maneuvre you have to land a blow on the bad guy. Once you run out of bad guys or you miss a hit, the coptering ends.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Trajhenkhetlive

[Neah]

DE recently removed this restricted range, and made it infinite ;_;

That is only for Dark Sector Conflicts, not normal missions.

[Ace_Kayo]

Guess what? DE has confirmed they'll be keeping coptering. They may have removed infinite wall-running, but coptering is here to stay.

They also said this game won't have PvP, lol. Not to mention, they said anything could be brought up for discussion for this game if you caught the last live stream. So, I wouldn't be so certain.

[Ryouhi]

Guess what? DE has confirmed they'll be keeping coptering. They may have removed infinite wall-running, but coptering is here to stay.

Doesn't really mean it's a good thing imo.

Kind of dwarfs the running-mechanic that is slower, as well as being gated by stamina and not just 'flying' around rooms and obstacles, while with coptering you don't really have to think about stamina since it recharges during flight.

Well, and it also requires the Sprint mod to be effective..

Edited August 17, 2014 by Ryouhi

[Meenmu]

#2-#5 are all the same complaint: "I'm slower than everyone else."

It's perfectly possible to keep up using other methods (wallrunning/launching for example) in addition to mods to boost movement capability.

 

As for #6, it's also very possible to hit enemies with spin attack, just takes a bit of practice to get used to the specific attack speed of the weapon you are using.

If you're using heavy weapons anyway, that particular complaint isn't relevant as spin attacking enemies is super easy. I've got plenty of heavy melee weapons, and have never felt "pressured" to take something faster.

 

#1: Okay coptering does look a bit awkward sometimes. I'll give you that. But maybe better animations can be added. For now, it's plenty fun. 

 

I would suggest not going to capture missions and such with a frost. Of course you're going to have trouble keeping up. Save your heavier frames for defense or survival, or something where constant movement isn't as important and durability is more beneficial. Use faster frames for faster missions. That will likely make you feel less like you need to copter to keep up.

[finaLfrontier]

I made a thread a couple weeks ago suggesting a small health percentage hit on falling over ledges. Some of the main arguments where "No, I fall a lot because I copter too hard." There ya go, you said it yourself, coptering too hard. Nothing wrong with the spin attack, but high repetitious spin attacks to fly through a great distance is tacky as hell.

 

I never use weapons that allow this behavior anyways, but if I did I still wouldn't do it, and that's my choice. This is other peoples game too however, and if it's possible to mindlessly copter through a level, and they want to, then so be it. Yeah it's annoying to see, but I get over it.

[Ace_Kayo]

Now that I think of it, I'm surprised they didn't give every Warframe the ability to use 'ninja rope' when they had a chance too. I remember Dev streams from ages ago about it, but it just turned into a power for Val. I think something like that would be more fitting for "flying around".

[(PSN)InstantOG]

I understand getting left behind but I don't know why you would want exp. on any mission besides Defense/Survival. I copter because I like to rush through pointless missions such as Capture,Spy,Rescue,Sabotage plus it helps to get to life support faster. 

[Ace_Kayo]

I understand getting left behind but I don't know why you would want exp. on any mission besides Defense/Survival. I copter because I like to rush through pointless missions such as Capture,Spy,Rescue,Sabotage plus it helps to get to life support faster. 

You have to be joking. All exp adds up, and getting to Mastery Rank 16+ takes ages as-is. That, and I rather not have somebody rush ahead of the team just to die by themselves and rage that they didn't get a revive in time.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Ace_Kayo