Make Weapon Damage Scale With It's Level

[.Czern]

In my opinion basic damage mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, Pressure Point, Point Blank) are way too strong and, because of this, absolutely must-haves in all builds.

I propose to drastically reduce their multipliers (and energy costs too) so they would be more like optional way to increase your overall damage (like bane mods).

To compensate this we could be given a completely new mechanic - by each level your weapon progress it's damage would be increased by a small amount, for example make it this way: if one installs maxed damage mod to level 30 weapon, it deals as much damage as weapon with current maxed damage mod.

[izzatuw]

How are you going to compensate people who bought and ranked there mods to the max?

[.Czern]

Cookies? I don't know.

[Rydian]

How are you going to compensate people who bought and ranked there mods to the max?

What about the compensation for Rhino iron skin nerf, Nova and Trinity changes, etc?

 

What about the compensation for when Melee 2.0 came out and the Fury mod had the speed-per-rank cut in half?

 

The compensation was "get over it". :P

[Stormandreas]

Even if the mods still increase base damage, people will still use them

Weapons should NOT scale damage with level. For one, it would make no sense watsoever. The only thing that should scale is Accuracy, as we become more proficient with the weapon.

Weapons, as in real life and other games, all have fixed ways of working, and fixed damage capabilities (without modification), so why should Warframe be any different.

[izzatuw]

What about the compensation for Rhino iron skin nerf, Nova and Trinity changes, etc?

 

What about the compensation for when Melee 2.0 came out and the Fury mod had the speed-per-rank cut in half?

 

The compensation was "get over it". :P

The difference is that people took tons and tons of creds of for this and cores.

Rhino Iron Skin is completely fine, it would've let people spam Iron Skin and go to T4 with little to no issues, same with Trinity nerf, if you wanted invincibility for a person than you clearly aren't skilled enough to play a game. People adapted to that game easily but not completely lose a mod.

[Liacu]

I'd definitely like a change like this. In fact, I wished scaling in general was scaled back a bit since it'd remedy a lot of problems like people consistently one shotting anything that isn't ultra high level. So for example, a max level weapon would deal 5x base weapon damage as opposed to 50x which is what it is now.

 

Even if the mods still increase base damage, people will still use them

Weapons should NOT scale damage with level. For one, it would make no sense watsoever. The only thing that should scale is Accuracy, as we become more proficient with the weapon.

Weapons, as in real life and other games, all have fixed ways of working, and fixed damage capabilities (without modification), so why should Warframe be any different.

 

But the game has leveling weapons anyways so that's kind a moot point to make.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Liacu

[Rydian]

The difference is that people took tons and tons of creds of for this and cores.

Rhino Iron Skin is completely fine, it would've let people spam Iron Skin and go to T4 with little to no issues, same with Trinity nerf, if you wanted invincibility for a person than you clearly aren't skilled enough to play a game. People adapted to that game easily but not completely lose a mod.

The OP is not suggesting rank removal like what happened to Steel Charge, nor are they suggesting mod removal.

 

The OP is suggesting the effects/numbers per rank be lowered, like what happened with Fury and various Warframe mods.

[Mastikator2]

Pressure Point used to give 49% damage bonus. If Pressure Point, Hornet Strike and Serration were all streamlined to have 10 ranks and 4% damage bonus per rank then adding 2.5% damage per level would make the math come out as the same as before.

(1+.025*30)*(1+.04*10) = 2.45, or 145% extra damage, a good middle point. Melee will get a buff, primary will get a slight nerf, secondary will get a hefty nerf.

 

However, without base damage mods you'd still have 75% damage increase. Base damage mods would remain useful and would be used in most builds, but not necessary for all builds.

[.Czern]

The OP is not suggesting rank removal like what happened to Steel Charge

Yes I do. Keeping the mods with 10 ranks and so little benefit between each rank would make no sense.

[izzatuw]

Cookies? I don't know.

Cookies eh, chocolate chip or almond? Milk or no milk?

[.Czern]

 

Cookies eh, chocolate chip or almond? Milk or no milk?

Only greedy milk, messer. And please, stay on topic, everyone.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286054-psa-warning-points-20-code-of-conduct/

Edited August 27, 2014 by theclinton

[Rydian]

Yes I do. Keeping the mods with 10 ranks and so little benefit between each rank would make no sense.

Uh, you only mentioned lowering the multipliers...

[Methanoid]

In my opinion basic damage mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, Pressure Point, Point Blank) are way too strong and, because of this, absolutely must-haves in all builds.

I propose to drastically reduce their multipliers (and energy costs too) so they would be more like optional way to increase your overall damage (like bane mods).

To compensate this we could be given a completely new mechanic - by each level your weapon progress it's damage would be increased by a small amount, for example make it this way: if one installs maxed damage mod to level 30 weapon, it deals as much damage as weapon with current maxed damage mod.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/199542-feedback-on-weaponsbase-damage/#entry2319547

 

^ suggested that a while ago, for vets with max'd mods, there would be no change stats wise but for new players theres some benefit for actually lvling weapons, in the exact same way we already have when our frames lvl up.

[RahuHordika]

While I am not certain of a specific system for it, proper damage scaling needs to be a thing, pure damage mods being a must are merely an illusion of choice since whereas with a proper scaling system you could focus on pure damage in the current one you HAVE to have at least one pure damage mod equipped.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Nopenopenope

 

If damage was linked to level, then a Level 30 weapon would have to have more conclave rating than an unranked weapon. Seeing as how DE now wants conclave to be linked to missions, then you would effectively be forcing people to have a half ranked weapon specifically for these missions.

 

There's only 2 ways to solve the mod problem:

 

Remove Forma from the game (and compensate each removed forma with a 1 day affinity booster, I guess).

 

or

 

Just plain nerf all the damage mods to be no more than 40%, (multi-shot to be no more than 30% etc.) and then to balance the rest of the game around unmodded weapon stats.

 

 

 

Oh, and before anyone says, "Why not just buff all the other mods to be even with the damage mods instead?". You can't. You'd have to have like +300% reload speed, or +500% ammo capacity, or +20m punch through etc. It would take the weapons to beyond broken levels, with guns having either full damage or 0.1 second reloads and 300% status chance.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Tehnoobshow

[BrazilianJoe]

I have suggested this change before, but these days I am not so sure it's the right choice.

 

To me it's simple to solve the mod nerf issue: just give the players a bunch of rare core mods and credits enough to re-upgrade the mod to max level, and give unranked mods to the player. The investment is returned and can be reused on the same mod, or a different one. 

 

But I am not sure auto-leveling weapon damage is the right choice. 

 

Serration/Hornet Strike/Pressure Point are an 'illusion of choice' only to a certain extent. They are pretty much required, but also you can swap them out to have your weapons match conclave ratings, which are starting to be used in sensible ways in the game. What is wrong is how much conclave rating each mod contributes. The conclave rating thing is now in the balancing game, and having the ooption to swap out that damage mod and teh associated conclave rating to half-leveled one may be a good option. 

[DeMeritus]

No.

[.Czern]

While I am not certain of a specific system for it, proper damage scaling needs to be a thing, pure damage mods being a must are merely an illusion of choice since whereas with a proper scaling system you could focus on pure damage in the current one you HAVE to have at least one pure damage mod equipped.

Or a multi-shot mod. They are even better.

 

If damage was linked to level, then a Level 30 weapon would have to have more conclave rating than an unranked weapon. Seeing as how DE now wants conclave to be linked to missions, then you would effectively be forcing people to have a half ranked weapon specifically for these missions.

Conclave rating is nowhere close to reflect true value of mods, it's broken, so I'd not take it into account now.

 

 

Remove Forma from the game

That's probably the worst thing that can be done to customization...

 

 

To me it's simple to solve the mod nerf issue: just give the players a bunch of rare core mods and credits enough to re-upgrade the mod to max level, and give unranked mods to the player. The investment is returned and can be reused on the same mod, or a different one. 

Sounds like perfect solution... We'd lose nothing this way.

[Azawarau]

How are you going to compensate people who bought and ranked there mods to the max?

The mods still do what they did before

 

As much as the maxed mod will scale down the others will scale down equally

 

You lose nothing by comparison to other players so there should be no complaint

 

Also its a beta

 

Changes happen