So.... As The Tenno We Are Actually Terrorists?

[Arlayn]

Were more like an Army of Raidens on a mission of Re-Vengence... Destroying everything in out paths to achieve our goals... Whatever those goals are... My goals are hopefully going to be helping red veil, but until then its destroy everything to achieve our own goals... Were Avengers of the Sol system! or something like that... I just see myself as the selfless warrior who believes in sacrifice! The Many outweigh the Few...

[Masterofm]

Is Batman a terrorist? Not by most standards most would call him a vigilante, the biggest difference between us and Batman is that we, as Tenno, are more than willing to kill those responsible in order to achieve our aims (which is where the executioner part comes in) while Batman is not.

 

He has killed all of zero people.  Doing the cops job is vigilante'ism.  Doling out street justice by killing people makes you a serial killer.  Blowing up Gotham Asylum even after evacuating all the staff because you have an agenda would make you a terrorist.

 

 

it would be terrorism if we would fck civilians up. But srly. Every fcker who points his gun at me gets sliced up. Those

dudes want to kill us or rip us apart to make us their pet robots. They get what they deserve.

 

 

And the guys you sneak up and kill?

 

Technically they didn't point their guns at you.

 

 

As militarised as any expansionist faction is: almost entirely. Hell, Tyl Regor is a civilian scientist, and he knows how to defend himself.

 

 

You go into a hostile area and you tend to get at least basic weapons training.  Doesn't mean they are militarized.

 

 

Were more like an Army of Raidens on a mission of Re-Vengence... Destroying everything in out paths to achieve our goals... Whatever those goals are... My goals are hopefully going to be helping red veil, but until then its destroy everything to achieve our own goals... Were Avengers of the Sol system! or something like that... I just see myself as the selfless warrior who believes in sacrifice! The Many outweigh the Few...

 

 

Um... we are the few.  We are killing the many.  Also Re-Vengence?  What did the corpus do to us before we started killing them wholesale?  IE: in the beginning before they started getting pissed off and creating some havoc.

[Corvid]

Masterofm, on 06 Sept 2014 - 4:54 PM, said:

Um... we are the few.  We are killing the many.  Also Re-Vengence?  What did the corpus do to us before we started killing them wholesale?  IE: in the beginning before they started getting &!$$ed off and creating some havoc.

 

Well, for starters, they were selling our still-warm bodies to the highest bidders...

[Omnimorph]

 

Every asymmetric conflict has revolutionary side labelled as "terrorists", and their supporters label them at "freedom fighters" 

 

 

 

This is a bit misleading actually.  As I understand it, "terrorist" has a specific meaning in assymetric warfare, quite different from "insurgent" or "freedom fighter". 

 

Specifically, terrorism is the attempt by a weaker force to perpetrate outrages, usually involving civilians, in order to provoke the stronger force to over-react (i.e. become more draconian), so that the stronger force's over-reaction affects ordinary citizens, so then the ordinary citizens get radicalized and the weaker force can gain adherents.

[Acos]

Terrorism is a matter of perspective. 

[Corvid]

Omnimorph, on 06 Sept 2014 - 5:31 PM, said:

This is a bit misleading actually.  As I understand it, "terrorist" has a specific meaning in assymetric warfare, quite different from "insurgent" or "freedom fighter". 

 

Specifically, terrorism is the attempt by a weaker force to perpetrate outrages, usually involving civilians, in order to provoke the stronger force to over-react (i.e. become more draconian), so that the stronger force's over-reaction affects ordinary citizens, so then the ordinary citizens get radicalized and the weaker force can gain adherents.

 

Indeed. Terrorism cannot destroy a nation, but it can cause a nation to destroy itself.

[WarframeStigma]

thats how the world sees it. they will never understand our true purpose. until then, we hide in the shadow of rumors and superstition

[KiteoHatto]

We exist to bring balance, Grineer empire offset the balance when they started conquering galaxy world by world and searching for "the cure". We are the liberators. Im sure from the Grineer point of view we look like terrorists and from corpus's poi we look like thieves, but in the end we are just restoring balance, robin hood in space sorta thing just less robin and more killing.

Edited September 6, 2014 by kiteohatto

[vaugahn]

We exist to bring balance, Grineer empire offset the balance when they started conquering galaxy world by world and searching for "the cure". We are the liberators. Im sure from the Grineer point of view we look like terrorists and from corpus's poi we look like thieves, but in the end we are just restoring balance, robin hood in space sorta thing just less robin and more killing.

But see, there's the problem. Balance is a lie.

We're purposely prolonging a conflict while simultaneously selling our services to both sides. That's what's known as war profiteering.

[KiteoHatto]

But see, there's the problem. Balance is a lie.

We're purposely prolonging a conflict while simultaneously selling our services to both sides. That's what's known as war profiteering.

How is balance a lie ?

 

Do you watch any anime by any chance ? Asking because it's very similar to what we have here. In Gundam 00 there is a small "faction" of people who attack 2 other warring factions to bring "peace/balance". We do this because we are far more powerful than either of them. Its sort of like "play nice or i will ruin your day". As powerful as we are we are not invincible beings and the only reason grineer/corpus mess with us is because we are such a small faction compared to them.

 

I don't think it's profiteering in most cases, it's more of a "who is at fault/who started this in the first place" question. For some it is war profiteering but its not what we really stand for, each faction has its "bad selfish".

 

-Stalker just wants to prove that he is better than you(insecure/feeling lonely)

-Alad is credit hungry

-Vor is power hungry, was probably bullied

 

Forgot to add. Tenno are like forum mods, general discussion are like the 2 warring factions. Mods can always swing the lockhammer/give a warning if we don't behave ourselves.

Edited September 6, 2014 by kiteohatto

[Zsar]

Explain this "peace", that we supposedly bring, while both sides keep killing each other - with our help even.

... Is it a "shooting peace" then? Hé, I like that. Has a certain ring to it, does it not?

 

I have a feeling that the discussion starts to circle around itself.

The "balance" part? Obviously wrong due to ongoing Grineer deterioration kept up by Tenno interference. As balanced as a drug addiction.

The "military only" part? Corvid pretty much wrote that everyone of them is military to them. So this is a tautology.

The "liberation" part? Tenno only liberate single people, of whom they neither know nor ask, whether they might have been imprisoned righteously.

We had all these points already.

 

Likening the Tenno to forum moderators seems to be a poor analogy too. Tenno do not follow any recognisable set of rules (including ethics) beyond "Lotus say, Tenno do" and "as long as I get paid".

A better analogy might be to write that Tenno are like anti-"Judge Dredds": The other sides have the strict rules, the other sides have the numbers, the Tenno are merely skilled and equipped sufficiently to harrass them anyway.

 

Indeed both sides show signs of highly organised and strict legal frameworks: On the Grineer side we have a rigorous hierarchy of command and both physical reconditioning and execution as common law enforcement methods; on the Corpus side there are no women visible at all, which pretty much points towards a caste system (even if only between genders - Who ever defined how many castes a caste system needs!).

 

In short, both sides show more signs of civilisation and culture than the Tenno do. If not terrorists, space barbarians might be another fitting label.

[dashashou]

we go on missions to kill scientists  and blow stuff up .  we are terrorists 

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I'm a space ninja mercenary. I don't care what I do, as long as my payment is good.

 

 

Tho, when killing Gen. Ruk, he trash talks about us being mercs, and "where is that so called, Tenno honor?"

[achromos]

Good and Evil are just vague terms dolled out by people who fail to understand the grander scope of things.  Tenno aren't evil, Tenno aren't good.  Tenno maintain the balance as ordained by the Lotus.  Is the Lotus good?  Is the Lotus Evil?  Those are questions some might ask, but those are small minded questions that might lead someone to a more worthwhile thought.

 

Seeing as the Tenno generally listen to the Lotus, and the Lotus is a leader of sorts, we must ask ourselves what motive she has. 

 

From what I've seen, The Lotus want's to maintain Balance, but what is that balance?  Is it a fair balance?  Where does the line get drawn?  We fight the Grineer, and the Corpus, and even infestation.  However, is it right?  Let's take a look at the factions individually and take a stab at these questions.

 

Corpus (info taken from the wiki)

The corpus is a Merchant Cult, built on the foundation of salvaged technology and Robotics.

They scavenge the outer systems, greedy for the Old War salvage. Their most sought after of all - the Tenno and their WARFRAME armor.
Those captured are treated as salvage; meticulously dissected, integrated. The remains are sold to the highest bidder.

 

So right off the bat, the Corpus have made a enemy out of the Lotus and even the Tenno, unless you fancy being dissected and integrated into whatever monstrosity's that they create.  Though, why would they want to create these?  I don't think they did all of this in response to the Tenno attacking first, the Corpus are no friend of ours as Tenno as if they are left unchecked they may unearth something quite powerful. 

 

The potential is there, just look at Alad V for an example, sure Alad V is not "The leader" of the Corpus, but he serves as a example in my opinion, and until I see otherwise and as long as their faction continues to try to take Tenno's apart for their experiments to sell and profit off of us I believe that they are not innocent and must be kept in check.

 

Grineer (info taken from the wiki)

From the chaos of the Collapse, they emerged, Violent hordes of decaying clones, overflowing from their toxic womb. They flood the Origin System, swallowing colonies whole.

The twin Queens, the SISTERS, have devised a plan to transform the scattered colonies into an Empire across the planets.
The Sisters have sent their most trusted brood on a vital quest - the TENNO, hidden and asleep, must never awake.

 

"The Sisters, have devised a plan to transform the scattered colonies into a empire across the planets."  Now, if the Grineer were peace loving individuals attempting to spread their empire that embodied free will through the solar system, I would say that we might be a bit strained to find a reason to be at odds with the Grineer.  Their leaders, they don't want "Us" the tenno to awaken, but why?  They want to "Swallow the colonies whole."  To assimilate people who probably were free to begin with, and turn them into their citizens, their property, slaves of a sort.

 

While we are not strong enough to ultimately purify this faction, and weed out those who can be swayed, we still need to maintain a balance.  If the balance were lost, then who's to say what will happen to the (fictitious, I know but I'm in character) galaxy?

 

Infested (Info Taken from the Wiki)

INFESTATION describes both a disease and its victims - a metamorphic affliction without cure. Living organisms are consumed and merged into rabid amalgamations.

Individuals are violent and animalistic yet the larger whole exhibits signs of coordination, with multiple swarms converging on ships and colonies.
Its origins are uncertain but there is historical evidence of a similar outbreak before The Collapse.

 

If you are still not convinced that the Tenno are not wholly evil, take a look at the Infested.  We fight them often, they are as described, violent and animalistic, and yet coordinated.  They even (recently) took over a whole planet. Personally I believe that the grineer as a whole, and the Corpus as a whole are not strong enough to prevent their own factions from becoming assimilated, look at what the monstrosities resemble vaguely, Corpus soldiers, and Grineer. 

 

The Infested have taken over ships, and frequently both of these factions have needed the Tenno to intervene and even stopped fighting the Tenno temporarily in desperation in hopes of taking this enemy down.  If the tenno were truly evil, would they be able to drop their crusade and ally up with the other faction for even those fleeting moments? Maybe... maybe not.

 

The Red Veil (Info Taken from the Wiki)

The Red Veil is a supporting faction introduced in update 13.2. First introduced in the Specters Of Liberty event, the Red Veil are a popular resistance group seeking to undermine Grineer and Corpus dominance of the solar system, and are sympathetic to the Tenno cause.

 

The Red Veil, this group helps prove my point.  "Popular resistance group... sympathetic to the Tenno Cause" Is it popular to support terrorism against a faction/country that has caused them harm or might?  Terrorists usually only care for their own faction, their own doctrine, their own goals so much that some groups usually maintain a healthy distance unless they are say tenno themselves... and they aren't.

 

So you may be wondering, what does 'this' prove?  It proves that the Tenno themselves are willing to fight a threat to themselves (corpus taking us apart for their own needs like a highschool science dissection, Grineer trying to enslave the galaxy, and the looming threat of the possibility of the infestation sweeping across the galaxy and wiping out all other life) though it also proves that they aren't going to attack and will even support a faction that really does not benefit them wholly (we don't 'need' The Red Veil, tbh) so the Tenno are not Evil, though they are not Good.

 

Why are the Tenno not heros?  Not "Good" as a whole?  A majority of them fight for credits (money), or whatever reward that suits their fancy but does that make them Evil? Terrorists?  No.  The Tenno, in my opinion are Neutral, Grey.  I fully believe that if the Corpus stopped trying to treat us like salvage to be ripped apart and examined and sold, and they stopped threatening the galaxy there would be little reason to fight them.  I believe that if the Grineer just up and said to themselves, let's not enslave the galaxy (let's keep this simple now.) that we would have almost no reason to fight them, unless these two factions themselves threatened to wipe out eachother or a group of them tried to attack us, then we probably would step in.

 

Most terroristic groups absolutely hate the faction(s) they are against to the point of wanting to wipe them out, but The Lotus doesn't want that, she seeks a balance, a place for everyone and eventually Peace if possible.  While it may be depending upon the view points, let's not take what the Grineer or Corpus say about us seriously.  Why?  We are shooting at them, they aren't going to say nice things about us.

[Masterofm]

Those are all interesting thoughts.... but you do know they are all thoughts from a single entity..... The Lotus.

 

 

 

The Red Veil, this group helps prove my point.  "Popular resistance group... sympathetic to the Tenno Cause" Is it popular to support terrorism against a faction/country that has caused them harm or might?  Terrorists usually only care for their own faction, their own doctrine, their own goals so much that some groups usually maintain a healthy distance unless they are say tenno themselves... and they aren't.

 

 

This is untrue.  And very narrow minded for what terrorists can stand for.

 

 

Most terroristic groups absolutely hate the faction(s) they are against to the point of wanting to wipe them out, but The Lotus doesn't want that, she seeks a balance, a place for everyone and eventually Peace if possible.  While it may be depending upon the view points, let's not take what the Grineer or Corpus say about us seriously.  Why?  We are shooting at them, they aren't going to say nice things about us.

 

This is also untrue.

 

Al Quaeda or however you spell it you know many of them were trained (well before they were mostly killed) by the CIA.  Back in the day when we still thought Russia was a threat many members of a now terrorist group were trained by the U.S.  They didn't like, or love us.  But we were allowing them to fight what they perceived as a greater threat.  Later of course they bit the hand that fed them.

 

Although it's not like the Tenno have switched sides or bit the hand that fed them whenever they thought it was convenient for them..... nor other actual historical terrorist groups that have done that very same thing.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Masterofm

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

The rebels were "terrorists" in Star Wars.

The French and U.S. Revolutionaries were "terrorists."

In a real world standpoint, your title depends on your side. Everything you fight for is "good" and everything they fight for is "bad."

Heck, Vor wanted to save a species, and the player is one tenno.

Due to Lotus and closed perspectives, the player is lead to believe that one Tenno is more important than an entire civilazation.

Even if the player/Tenno realized this, he/she would stay with Lotus and stay in the dark because Lotus allows the Tenno to operate as mercenaries rather than a "balancing force." It all depends on your perspective.

In a gameplay standpoint, it really doesn't matter. Unless these were real people, I wouldn't think twice about killing some random guy for his stuff. Granted, some games do achieve a moral consequence, but it is largely player generated rather than game generated.

So I'd happily nuke the Grineer cities/headquarters if it meant I could recieve a good weapon.

[Masterofm]

So I'd happily nuke the Grineer cities/headquarters if it meant I could recieve a good weapon.

 

And doesn't that really speak volumes of the Tenno?  Because I totally would do that too.

[houngan459]

Terrorists maybe but I see the tenno as more mercenary or soldier of fortune.

When it comes to an invasion mission we take sides and help the grineer or corpus fight each

other.

And they pay us for it too.

Also when it comes to dealing with infestation they don't mind using our assistance in dealing

with it.

So they must find us useful when we are not causing them any mischief.

[Venarge]

So, in the USA, if you enter someones property uninvited, in a state where it is legal for the owner to shoot at you for trespassing - killing them before they can is alright?

 

They never try to kill us in the Dojo or the Liset.

 

... Another point: How do we recognise civilians? Crewmen? The Grineer just might not have a civilian class.

 

Yet another point: Cast World in Flames. Or Chaos. Or Radial Javelin. Everyone dies. Who was the civilian? Did you look for civilians beforehand? How many people did you kill before even checking whether they could be civilian?

(Arguably, without game mechanics to explicitely divide NPCs into civs and non-civs, the point is rather moot.)

We dont enter houses. We enter attack ships. We enter weapon research facilities where our comrades are being fused to robots. Everyone there is an a-hole and deserves to get fcked! It´s like entering a drug lab. Sure theres an owner. But he deserves to die.

And they never try to kill us in our dojo / ship because they simply cant find/see them because of our cloaking technology -.-

Otherwise there would be constant attacks....

[Zsar]

We dont enter houses. We enter attack ships. We enter weapon research facilities where our comrades are being fused to robots. Everyone there is an a-hole and deserves to get fcked! It´s like entering a drug lab. Sure theres an owner. But he deserves to die.

If I were to walk into the next barracks of the pityful german army, I would probably not get shot at. But arrested? Surely. If I successfully resist arrest? Then I am at least supposed to get shot.

 

Do it. Try to flaunt into any military installation, onto any military vessel and start to pocket stuff. Never forget: These people's purpose is to kill people. Total rectal openings, the lot of them! All their base are belong to you.

 

For added righteousness, visit a neighboring country and do it there (bonus points if you neither speak nor understand the local language); after all your own good government would never even think about training soldiers if all their greedy little neighbors had not done so before.

 

... Do not forget to pack an axe and wave it about enthusiastically while ignoring all attempts at communication made towards you.

 

- But mayhap you want to concentrate on the "drug lab" aspect? The places we visit in-game seem to be perfectly legal - government owned even. Mayhap visit a pharmaceutical plant instead of a military camp. Try to get into the cleanrooms. Break anything that might contain valuable parts (CPUs contain gold, btw.).

And they never try to kill us in our dojo / ship because they simply cant find/see them because of our cloaking technology -.-

Otherwise there would be constant attacks....

Many of the afghan so-called - "terrorists" - can relate. Every now and then one of their caves is found, and guess what happens then!

(disclaimer: may include women and children)

 

--

 

I hope I managed to highlight the ridiculousness of this argumentation. Now, if you would excuse me, there are some places filled with total rimjob receivers that I want to set on fire. "Da trifft's immer den Richtigen." - Eh, I do not think there is a nice english expression for that?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Zsar

[KiteoHatto]

This gif sums it all up for me.

Cats=Grineer and Corpus

Dogs=Tenno

Edited September 8, 2014 by kiteohatto

[Masterofm]

The giff makes no sense.  And if you were to substitute the dog killing both of them, and then stealing their toy mouse you might be slightly more correct.

 

But in true Tenno style when partying up with someone notice how one of them did all the work and then the other one was just a hanger on..... ah memories.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Masterofm

[Brimir]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[letir]

Terrorists and freedom fighters fight for idea.

 

Tenno fight mostly for reward or good loot. Mercenaries, bandits, space pirates.

[Brimir]

Terrorists and freedom fighters fight for idea.

 

Tenno fight mostly for reward or good loot. Mercenaries, bandits, space pirates.

 

No, the player fights for that stuff. The Tenno have different motives.