New Infested Lore. So Apparently They Just Came Out Of Nowhere. It Doesnt Work.

[Mak_Gohae]

No, that's not what I wrote. Read carefully. 

 

Also, life force doesn't mean soul. Plants have life force, they don't have souls. 

 

That's exactly what you wrote.

If plants have lifeforce then they have souls.

 

What does lifeforce mean to you?

Unless lifeforce is just the future version of blood but we have learned from several changes that they have apparently NOT advanced their language in thousands of years in the future. So lifeforce means lifeforce.

 

 

none of this is correct, your entire argument is ignoring perspective.

 

so, what is this perspective?

 

remember back when U14 dropped? so, you were a Tenno, in space, then all of a sudden, after personally playing for over 100 hours your Tenno has just woken up from cryostasis? wtf?

 

what you're missing is that they are creating a new game, with a cohesive start. you wake up from crysostasis and partake in a handful of quests that explain the game world to you. one of them explains the Infested presence is Sol, it DOES NOT nullify the old Codex at all, it only offers an explanation to new players on what they hell these ancient things you fought back in the day are doing here now, which is something older players never had. they were never a lore constant, there was no lore, just another enemy with a Codex entry referencing them from long ago.

 

see, perspective.

 

???? The new tutorial was optional to old players. If this what you are talking.

 

But CRAP! You just brought up some more breaking of lore! How are the Ancients running around if the breakout in the SS is brand new created by the Grineer? This thing makes even LESS sense!

[vaugahn]

That's exactly what you wrote.

If plants have lifeforce then they have souls.

 

What does lifeforce mean to you?

Unless lifeforce is just the future version of blood but we have learned from several changes that they have apparently NOT advanced their language in thousands of years in the future. So lifeforce means lifeforce.

 

Read very carefully. I'll give you a hint, there's a difference between "present in the origin system" and "controlling an entire planet".

 

Anyways, "life force" is actually a somewhat well-defined concept. In esotericism and spiritualism, life force (also known as qi in Chinese cultures) is a fundamental energy possessed by all living things that makes them alive. It's different from a soul. 

[-Onyx-AquaDragon42]

none of this is correct, your entire argument is ignoring perspective.

 

so, what is this perspective?

 

remember back when U14 dropped? so, you were a Tenno, in space, then all of a sudden, after personally playing for over 100 hours your Tenno has just woken up from cryostasis? wtf?

 

what you're missing is that they are creating a new game, with a cohesive start. you wake up from crysostasis and partake in a handful of quests that explain the game world to you. one of them explains the Infested presence is Sol, it DOES NOT nullify the old Codex at all, it only offers an explanation to new players on what they hell these ancient things you fought back in the day are doing here now, which is something older players never had. they were never a lore constant, there was no lore, just another enemy with a Codex entry referencing them from long ago.

 

see, perspective.

agreed.  New players need explanations of what's going on since they were not around for the special events.  Honestly I hate the idea of significant plot elements only available for a limited time like that.  For new players that like to know the world (or in this case universe) finding out that you had to be around for those events to know what's going on is just a a low blow.  I feel the same way about those special Elemental/Status Chance event mods but that's for another time.  

[SilentMobius]

The Tenno was their last plan.

Until they change that, that means that the infested came first.

So their previous plans did not work.

 

Nowhere it that stated. Only that the Orokin were desperate and that the Tenno saved them, nothing says the Tenno were their last plan, you have simply made that up.

 

Oh and frequently in science fiction "life force" is simply the electromagnetic energy that is present in a living organism. Given the fact that void energy is capable of producing electricity (Vold) I see no reason why a Void-device couldn't stop and/or drain all electrical energy in Organic matter.

 

There is no reason to assume anything relating to a "soul"

Edited November 13, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Egg_Chen]

Simple, looking for logic in the lore of Warframe is pointless.

 

We all know the lore is thrown together with new events and codex entries without coherence.

Film makers employ people to check for continuity errors and the like, I don't think DE do...

 

There are so many irreconcilable issues with the lore chopping and changing that I've given up and just think "shooting stuff in space is fun" as my motivation.

[d1sc1p1e]

???? The new tutorial was optional to old players. If this what you are talking.

 

But CRAP! You just brought up some more breaking of lore! How are the Ancients running around if the breakout in the SS is brand new created by the Grineer? This thing makes even LESS sense!

 

and so is this one.

 

but again, it's perspective man. the old lore gave us no explanation of what the Infested really were let alone what they were doing here. now we have lore that says they are ancient but have only just begun to infiltrate Sol. none of this is game breaking, none of it astounding. as a player we've been battling them for ages before with no answers to all the whys, well now we know more and it makes complete sense if you're a new player, and complete sense if you're an older player who understands that the game is still in Beta.

[Gemellus]

Like Diabolus said, a lot of factors indicate this quest was meant to introduce the infested to new players, who would not have encountered them yet on the starchart. I like it.

[Pavelord]

It could be just about the chargers, a new infested model brought about by the grineer not the whole of the infestation.

[Mak_Gohae]

Nowhere it that stated. Only that the Orokin were desperate and that the Tenno saved them, nothing says the Tenno were their last plan, you have simply made that up.

 

 

Very first sentence in the Excalibur lore.

 

"The Sentients had won"

 

 

and so is this one.

 

 

??? what does the option of doing the mission have to do with the lore in the mission?

You are talking about two different things.

 

 

 

but again, it's perspective man. the old lore gave us no explanation of what the Infested really were let alone what they were doing here. now we have lore that says they are ancient but have only just begun to infiltrate Sol. none of this is game breaking, none of it astounding. as a player we've been battling them for ages before with no answers to all the whys, well now we know more and it makes complete sense if you're a new player, and complete sense if you're an older player who understands that the game is still in Beta.

 

What? We all know what the infested were. That has been explained since the first J3 mission and it's probably still here in the J2k mission.

Oh, you just started playing... that's why. Have you done the J2k mission? Have you read the Codex?

 

The new mission did nothing but reset the story of the Infested and turned it into the Grineer causing a breakout instead of the Infested constantly pestering everyone.

 

Hek, MORE LORE BREAKAGE!

If the Infested were JUST released .... how the hell does all sorts of tech that require infested materials exist BEFORE the breakout?

This makes no sense!

Edited November 14, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[d1sc1p1e]

What? We all know what the infested were. That has been explained since the first J3 mission and it's probably still here in the J2k mission.

Oh, you just started playing... that's why. Have you done the J2k mission? Have you read the Codex?

 

The new mission did nothing but reset the story of the Infested and turned it into the Grineer causing a breakout instead of the Infested constantly pestering everyone.

 

relatively, but i do my homework and i've @#$%ed Lephantis in the face more than a few times. the J-3 Codex was nerfed a long time ago, so it ceased to be lore way back when. after that we had Phorid and the Infested Codex, neither of which gave us anything solid to explain their current actions.

 

the new lore is an expansion, not total rewrite, of the old lore, giving us a more cohesive storyline.

[AzazelSama]

Why every people think Greeners are from void,Greeners are Clone Project for Human Survival against technocyte virus,but it could not be done faster so orokin took human project and controlled it,that`s why greeners where born.Orokin made them to be a weapon against Sentients and Teno are same weapon against Sentients.Sentients are sort of AI made by humans(This was Secret Project that was made to fight Orokin faction).But Humanity Lost against Orokin and fail of to the virus,but orokin sended them into the void.And when they were returned they got immense huge powers and they had Warframe Suits,those were made from a similar material as Technocyte material was made,i dont know if its better than the technocyte metal.Anyway this is all about.Sentients were the army against Orokin.

[SilentMobius]

Very first sentence in the Excalibur lore.

 

"The Sentients had won"

 

Seriously? I don't know what moon-language you speak, but this does not say that the Tenno were their last solution. Simply that nothing before this point had any impact on the War.

 

You have a real issue with making assumptions and stating them as fact, it's rather irritating.

Edited November 14, 2014 by SilentMobius

[arch111]

Ok great discussion going on here. This is good, actually vital to keep alive and fresh.

When I first joined, I woke up and was hunted by the Grineer. They were the massive Threat, and officially they still are.

The infested were a scary mutated mass that was best dealt with by yding swords and fire.

They held entire nodes then. This then changed into random invasions - granted a wip game-mode, but still this was a big deal.

The move to the Derelicts as the source of the virus was meant to give them a new home. I watched the community run the Lephantis missions, and move on.

The Derelicts had been in place since the War when the Orokin fled into the Void. The ships that failed to jump are still there.

The Grineer and Corpus have been gathering Orokin artefacts abd sleeping Tenno for years, so this new Lore Line of the Infestation being released does not add up, not without redoing the story of the Derelicts and Lephantis. Or are these allso just discovered?

There have been mentions of a Hive Mind, this is so far a Fan-notion. Nowhere have I seen or heard talk of a Zerg-like mind.

I personally think the infested originally were soldiers, not monsters. Bio-mutations bred for war, just like the Tenno.

The Tenno was a desperate play to survive. Everything failed, no matter how advanced.

Solution: New Player Experience should be a Quest Line covering all of this.

Then add a real timeline to the Codex, let it grow and change over time as the story gets polished.

[Auxeus]

Techniically the virus is Technocyte, shouldn't start out as infestation.

 

Grineers should've first discovered its origin somewhere (awesome) and they got infected and turn into infestation.

 

Is that simple but hell, story got rushed?

[arch111]

I would like this line of Lore to evolve into the Factions uniting against the Infestation Menace. It could even spawn new Lore Quests, and tie into Alad V and the Perfect Warriors. Infested Zanuka anyone?

[Hamstertron]

I think this whole topic has been spawned by a misunderstanding.

 

From the perspective of a new player, they will encounter the Grineer and the Corpus on Mercury. The "Once Awake" questline simply allows them to also encounter the Infested on a planet which is never subject to invations or alerts.

 

If you want to nit-pick then yes there probably shouldn't be Ancients or even runners (since they are clearly corpus cremen). However there's no reason that they didn't find some frozen ancients in space which they sourced their technocyte from or exposed captured crewmen to the technocyte for lols/science. Maybe both since Lotus states they've not been around for a while. Besides, who knows what they've been finding with Vor's Janus key?

 

All of the communications from Dr. Tengus indicate that he is attempting to create a new bio-weapon derived from the infestation. It doesn't say that he specifically discovered it, nor that the infested is the bio-weapon itself. For all we know Tengus was working on a method of directly controlling the infested or produce a weapon they were vulnerable to (hence batches of test marines armed with various weapons). He refers to the facility on M-Prime as his "Infested testing lab" but goes no further in describing the bio-weapon. If I were to speculate I would suggest that Tengus was turning to the flesh-altering properties of technocyte to replace the failing cloning technology of the Grineer.

 

The technocyte virus (regardless of it's origins in the DE game Dark Sector) was used in the Old War as a weapon. The Derelict lore says that it was released against the Sentients, presumably by the Orokin. When that didn't work their sole remaining option was to use the mythical Tenno (see Excal codex) who were the only creatures to survive exposure to the technocyte. I hesitate to use the word "immune" because the 'frames themselves seem to be made from controlled technocyte growth - hence Lephantis comments that Tenno and the infestation are the "same flesh".

 

Again, from the perspective of the new player it's possible (but not necessary) that Dr. Tengus is responsible for the infested that the players meet in the early part of their career before they find the Derelics.

[Andoryuu]

How about this:

Infested were in solar system since War. They just lay dormant in those abandoned Orokin ships.

Now this Tengus fella starts poking them with sticks to see what happens, brings few of them home trying to make a weapon from them, lets them go for a run to see how marines handle them...

Lotus is all "wth, where did they come from" and sends you to destroy them with a lil' bomb. She states that it would take just one infested ship to cause an outbreak.

While Tengus blames everything on you to justify his further research.

 

With this, future Salad's experiments and I don't know whosever else we don't even know about, I can see why there is whole Infested planet and random outbreaks all over the solar system...

 

 

 

Also, life force != soul. Life force is more of a vital energy, something that keeps your body working, not something that grants you mind.

So no, you don't have to feel bad for killing Infested, and yes, Infested are organics because they are mutations of organic life forms (most of them anyway).

Edited November 14, 2014 by Andoryuu

[WERElektro]

Kinda agree to op....

I don't even want to call this lore.

I mean now we know as little as we knew before .

[Asura_Echo]

Derelicts are in normal space.

 

 

I know that. What i am saying is that before this the Infested were around as a pest and now the new story turns them into a new enemy that just popped up.

 

The lore is that they were a weapon used against the Sentient but apparently the Orokin lost control.

DE just keeps changing the lore ... the little lore it has... every two months.

 

They have to create a base and stick with it.

I think you're misinterpreting it. They woke the infested. They didn't just "pop up", they have been there, lost for centuries. The Grineer woke them but it fits in fine with the rest of the lore as long as you open your mind and get creative with what it means.

 

P.S. Derelicts are in the void, that's why you need a key.

[Morec0]

Kinda agree to op....

I don't even want to call this lore.

I mean now we know as little as we knew before .

 

It's an expanding on what we knew before we went to sleep:

 

We thought the Infested were wiped out, like their Orokin masters, but given the Lotus' shock at seeing them we were clearly wrong - although we know Lotus has forgotten certain elements about the past (Mirage Quest) it seems she's retained a little knowledge of the more recent events before the big sleep. The presence of a creature like Lephantis continues to suggest we were wrong in assuming they were gone before we even went to sleep, but that's still just one ship compared to the madness the Grineer have unleashed now.

 

This also paints just how mad the Grineer can be, and shows further that they're not just brutes bullying people but have a real shot at building a galaxy-wide Empire if they're not stopped - effectively becoming the new Orokin. We also seem to know that Tengus may be a little more self-centered than he is loyal to the queens - given his lying about us stealing the Infested samples, which I think is a cover for the vanishing of samples he himself has spirited away for personal projects.

 

There has been no rewrite, the old lore is just the same as it was, we now just know more about how the System came to it certain state and what we did before we went into cryosleep.

 

 

I think you're misinterpreting it. They woke the infested. They didn't just "pop up", they have been there, lost for centuries. The Grineer woke them but it fits in fine with the rest of the lore as long as you open your mind and get creative with what it means.

 

P.S. Derelicts are in the void, that's why you need a key.

 

I always equate the Derelict Keys to more of a navigational tool - given we have to farm Nav Coordinates to craft them - but you MAY have a point.

[SilentMobius]

The technocyte virus (regardless of it's origins in the DE game Dark Sector) was used in the Old War as a weapon. The Derelict lore says that it was released against the Sentients, presumably by the Orokin. When that didn't work their sole remaining option was to use the mythical Tenno (see Excal codex) who were the only creatures to survive exposure to the technocyte. I hesitate to use the word "immune" because the 'frames themselves seem to be made from controlled technocyte growth - hence Lephantis comments that Tenno and the infestation are the "same flesh".

 

I think you'll find that the only reference in the derelicts is that the Lephantis was "created to fight in the old war" It doesn't speak of the Infestation in general nor about the technocyte virus it came from. Also at no point was it stated that Lephantis or any other Infested entity was actually _deployed_ during the war, simply that Lephantis was created to fight in it.

 

Given that Lephantis is still in an Orokin facility that appears to have been its creation/warehousing location I'd say it is more likely that Lephantis was created to fight but was never deployed due to the Tenno winning the war.

 

Unless someone can find a quote that I haven't seen nothing states that and Infested entity was deployed in the Old War.

[Morec0]

I think you'll find that the only reference in the derelicts is that the Lephantis was "created to fight in the old war" It doesn't speak of the Infestation in general nor about the technocyte virus it came from. Also at no point was it stated that Lephantis or any other Infested entity was actually _deployed_ during the war, simply that Lephantis was created to fight in it.

 

Given that Lephantis is still in an Orokin facility that appears to have been its creation/warehousing location I'd say it is more likely that Lephantis was created to fight but was never deployed due to the Tenno winning the war.

 

Unless someone can find a quote that I haven't seen nothing states that and Infested entity was deployed in the Old War.

 

This is just a thought about the Derelict in opposition to the "it's a testing lab gone wrong" theory: but could it be that the Derelict itself was designed to be a "Trojan Horse"? An Orokin ship ('cause it IS a ship, not a tower or other such thing) sent out and designed to look like an escape craft to draw the Sentients to it, with the intention of once they were on-board Infesting them to have it spread throughout their ranks and decimate their numbers. 

 

But it failed because, as Excalibur's Codex says, "they turned out weapons against us.", they escaped the fate the Orokin had planned and released the Infestation against THEM in turn. Starting the Great Plague that the Mire's info talks about.

 

We KNOW that whatever the Orokin tried first failed because of the Sentients, and we KNOW the Tenno were what they turned out after that failure (Excalibur's Codex). You're right, we DON'T know 100% that the Infested were the "weapons" turned against the Orokin by the Sentients, but I think it's a pretty good guess.

[Sitchrea]

I think the Grineer discovered the derelicts and brought samples back to Dr. Tengus for investigation.

 

There could actually be proof this in the game; a certain tile in the Derelicts has distinct Grineer technology hooked up to a number of Cryopods. The room is barred away with debris, for it is obvious they were trying to hold the Infestation back, so it requires a bit of parkour to find. Once inside, though, it is obvious that the Grineer had been to the Derelicts long before us; there are even a few mangled Grineer bodies around the room, so even more proof of them finding the Derelicts.

[fatpig84]

Like it or not, the Infested are indeed a bio-weapon first created by the Orokin to fight their wars (lephantis).

Of course this same nano machines thingies attack everything after the fall of the Orokin (Orokin derelicts)

 

Without a proper coordinated Orokin military arm to fight them back, the Tenno are the ones who took it to themselves to purge the infested (Ether sword and Mire support this).

 

But also thanks to the Tenno wrecking the Orokin stuff, they eventually cannot maintain or replace their own gear too and forced to make do with inferior copies. They somehow they won against the infested, then went to sleep in this inferior kit.

 

That is why you are awake in a non-prime frame after all. 
Then the Grineer began messing around with Technocyte again by possibly finding a dormant strain or something....

 

 

But that of course requires DE to make Dr Tengu a boss.

Don't forget Tengu created the G3 as well.

Edited November 14, 2014 by fatpig84

[arch111]

I really hope there will be new Lore with the new Gholem. Even if this if a New Player Experience, they should follow up on this to present day.

It is bigger than a ship, and completely new in design. And we fight it in space apparently.

The new infested allso look more like alien life than infested humans/wildlife. Maby Ancients will soon be redeigned as well.