Syndicates Hate One Another, Why Are They Next Door In Hub's?!?!?

[CY13ERPUNK]

I am still going back to how the syndicates, even though they are willing to kill each other's operatives, have come to an agreement and are willing to operate in the same area as a means to reach their operatives.  They know if they started killing eachother in this area that it would be a horrendous bloodbath and wouldn't dare offend the other syndicates lest they all come together to wipe out the offending party.

 

and while this falls under the 'hallowed ground' theory, it will require and enormous amount of lore rationalization, becuz to be perfectly honest, the suspension of disbelief is just so enormously high in this situation

 

we might as well have a room in the dojo with alad v, the twin queens, frohd bek, lephantis, phorid, and the stalker, all sitting together and having tea, cuz ya know why not? MAD and all that jazz (mutually assured destruction)

 

I don't know... having the entrance to their hidden base be located in a place that is extremely public just sounds silly. I mean, what's stopping someone from walking in with a bomb and blowing the base up? I dislike their current design for the same reason. With the leader of each syndicate being located in the hubs, what is stopping a member of the opposing faction from strolling in and slaughtering them (cephalon suda and arbiters of hexis probably being the only exception)? I think DE should replace their models with holograms. That way they can be there to speak with us, without putting themselves at risk.

 

yep, just another reason that the way that it was shown just shows that there was not a lot of thought about the logistics involved here =/

[-InV-igo95862]

Syndicates that have negative relationships with each other do not sit next door to each other.

Steel Meridian, Arbiters and Sephalon Suda are on the one side. Perin Sequence, Red Veil and New Loka on the other side of the hub.

[Tectorious]

Syndicates that have negative relationships with each other do not sit next door to each other. Steel Meridian, Arbiters and Sephalon Suda are on the one side. Perin Sequence, Red Veil and New Loka on the other side of the hub.

So syndicates that are prepared to murder Tenno for joining opposing factions but walking down a corridor to take out said faction is too much of a strain on their poor legs?

Well, not Cephalon Suda, she doesn't have legs.

Actually, neither does New Loka lady for that matter.

[fatpig84]

Tenno home turf, our rules.

[Corvid]

Tectorious, on 18 Nov 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

So syndicates that are prepared to murder Tenno for joining opposing factions but walking down a corridor to take out said faction is too much of a strain on their poor legs?

Well, not Cephalon Suda, she doesn't have legs.

Actually, neither does New Loka lady for that matter.

 

fatpig84, on 18 Nov 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Tenno home turf, our rules.

 

The cause of the debate and the resolution right next to each other.

[Temmron]

uhm didnt they say its WIP where those rooms will be located?

I think there is much to change still so obviously theyll change the location as well

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

ok watch the latest DEvstream if you haven't yet (at least until they swap to the Dojo Party)

 

 

ok so now that you've seen that, first lets give kudos where they are due, the level design guys knock it out of the park AGAIN, the docking area look fabulous AND the individual Syndicate rooms also look great

 

BUT

 

and this is a BIG BUT

 

if the Syndicates are supposed to be so opposed to one another, why would the be willing to occupy the same Hub as a rival faction? the way the DEv build shows it, it's like they are BK and MickyD's next door to one another in a mall food court =/

 

I don't necessarily want to poo-poo on a lot of DE's hard work, but I REALLY think that each individual Hub should only have 1-2 Syndicate locations (ie only Syndicates that are friendly with one another would be willing to be in the same space station as another)

 

this would also be a great opportunity for each individual Hub to have it's own unique character as well; imagine 7 different unique Hubs, one primary for each Syndicate and for the mysterious Prime Trader guy, then more Hubs could be secondary locations that house 1-2 'friendly' syndicates maybe as exchange locations

 

this way each Hub could either be a Syndicate HQ or a meeting ground for them to work with their 'allies'

 

also, this would give much more FEELING to rival syndicates, and show that they do NOT get along at all

 

PLZ consider this DE, I know that Hub's are not finished, and this level of immersion would be terrible to waste

Good point and ideas.

[Onisa]

It would certainly make more seance if they were grouped in pairs rather than as they were in the preview. That way each pair that gets along can be as far from the others as possible while still having it's foot in the door, so to say. And if a staunch Cephalon Suda supporter is in Red Veil/Steel Meridian's nook you know they're there to stir the pot. (Assuming pot stirring will be a thing.)

[shut]

Well, let's think about it like this, why is there a McDonald's and a Burger King in the same mall?

 

Exposure, attempt to take control.

Why do so many different college clubs advertise in the same place etc etc.

I don't think that McDonald's workers are actively trying to kill Burger King's workers, though.

These Syndicates don't just have a disagreement with the others' ideals, or have a petty rivalry with them. They are enemies, and would gladly exterminate the other if they got the chance.

As pumped as I am for hubs, it makes little sense for the Syndicates to have their leaders sitting within a grenade's throw of each other. At most, the rooms should contain a bunch of friendly recruiters from each Syndicate hanging around a talking hologram of their leader.

[Tectorious]

There are interesting points on both sides of this debate.

I think I have a suggestion that could work for either side. By simply placing a visual effect, similar to that of Nova's wormhole ability over each syndicate door it can be rationalized however the player likes.

For example:
Perhaps it is indeed teleporting the player or maybe it's just an emancipation grid of sorts to keep out any  unauthorized visitors.

In true DE style it wouldn't have to be explained directly from a lore-wise perspective. 

Thoughts?

[Wyldbill]

Tenno home turf, our rules.

 

This, this settles syndicate.  Although, the actual leaders don't really need to be there.

 

Lotus has agreed to lend this space to syndicates so they can reach their Tenno Operatives, there could possibly be a teleporter inside each faction room that leads to a room with the leader.  This tele is only accessible by people who have reached a certain rank in the syndicate.

[CY13ERPUNK]

would really be nice if a DEv team member stopped by, to just drop a lil "we've seen this, and we'll think about it" kinda note =]

[optyk]

ok watch the latest DEvstream if you haven't yet (at least until they swap to the Dojo Party)

 

 

ok so now that you've seen that, first lets give kudos where they are due, the level design guys knock it out of the park AGAIN, the docking area look fabulous AND the individual Syndicate rooms also look great

 

BUT

 

and this is a BIG BUT

 

if the Syndicates are supposed to be so opposed to one another, why would the be willing to occupy the same Hub as a rival faction? the way the DEv build shows it, it's like they are BK and MickyD's next door to one another in a mall food court =/

 

I don't necessarily want to poo-poo on a lot of DE's hard work, but I REALLY think that each individual Hub should only have 1-2 Syndicate locations (ie only Syndicates that are friendly with one another would be willing to be in the same space station as another)

 

this would also be a great opportunity for each individual Hub to have it's own unique character as well; imagine 7 different unique Hubs, one primary for each Syndicate and for the mysterious Prime Trader guy, then more Hubs could be secondary locations that house 1-2 'friendly' syndicates maybe as exchange locations

 

this way each Hub could either be a Syndicate HQ or a meeting ground for them to work with their 'allies'

 

also, this would give much more FEELING to rival syndicates, and show that they do NOT get along at all

 

PLZ consider this DE, I know that Hub's are not finished, and this level of immersion would be terrible to waste

 

 

Seen John Wick yet? 

 

Think of the Hub as The Continental from that movie. No 'business' shall be conducted while on the premises lest you incur a hefty penalty. Ask Ms.Perkins about the penalties.

Edited November 19, 2014 by optyk

[Kruglov]

Something DE could do which would fix this odd conundrum and also be easy to implement would be to simply remove the doorway into the Syndicate room entirely.

 

And much like the Grineer drop pods in Invasions, have a fake "traveling through space" fade to black as you get into some sort of Syndicate themed 'escape pod' or whatever.

Then after a second or two of black, it fades in and you are stepping out into the new Syndicate room.

 

Bish bash bosh.

 

- Syndicates no longer appear to be right next to each other

- You get to pretend to ride a small transport vessel wheeeee

- They can re-use the same code of another cool asset from Invasions that they never use for anything else

- Tenno now feel more like honored guests and not a person who just showed up to the party for pie and punch

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Tenno home turf, our rules.

 

You would think part of our rules would be "Don't attack our fellow Tenno while they're on missions, regardless of what Syndicate they support." Do we just sit by and let them kill our own like that? That's why I think adjusting Syndicates so that low reputation increases the likelihood of fringe members of groups to organize attacks would be better. The leaders can apologize and all that, and have nothing to do with the attacks, but because we have low reputation in those syndicates random or low/moderate ranking members decide to attack us.

 

I still don't know how to make that work with Suda though.

[kazeyama]

You would think part of our rules would be "Don't attack our fellow Tenno while they're on missions, regardless of what Syndicate they support." Do we just sit by and let them kill our own like that? That's why I think adjusting Syndicates so that low reputation increases the likelihood of fringe members of groups to organize attacks would be better. The leaders can apologize and all that, and have nothing to do with the attacks, but because we have low reputation in those syndicates random or low/moderate ranking members decide to attack us.

 

I still don't know how to make that work with Suda though.

 

The Tenno don't directly attack one another though. Tenno always have a roundabout way of doing things without directly attacking each other. That is why they send out squads of infested or rollers or moa instead of a hit squad of trained tenno assassins. I think it can be seen more as them trying to convince the Tenno to join them or a "get off our turf" message rather thana deliberate assassination attempt. I mean to these syndicates none of them are Tenno themselves except for possibly the Arbiters and maybe Red Veil. To the others Tenno are the most valuable commodity in the galaxy as each one is basically a walking army it doesn't make sense to kill a potential resource. It's more about trying to demonstrate the power of the faction and compete. 

 

Also why they would all be on the hubs even if they hate each other. There are likely a lot of unaffiliated Tenno on the hubs that these syndicates are trying to recruit. So as much as the syndicate bases may be meeting places they are also recruiting centers. Again these syndicates don't seem to be actively in open combat like the corpus and grineer are, but more manipulate things in the shadows to benefit themselves. This is why I think the original proxy wars title included syndicates and the tenno clans, and changed up a bunch. Tenno don't kill/fight other Tenno they use other means or pawns to do it themselves. And if they do manage to kill a tenno with a eximus squad it just proves they weren't strong enough to be worth recruiting in the first place.

[SquirmyBurrito]

The Tenno don't directly attack one another though. 

 

*cough* Dark Sector rail conflicts *cough*

Edited November 19, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Wyldbill]

I think my problem with figuring out why no one pulls guns on each other is because I honestly don't get how, at odds, everyone is.  I figured they all were working for the sort of same goal but due to their beliefs they'd kill each other if they feel the other hinders their progress.  And someone aparrently pointed this out from a movie, haven't seen it yet, but there is a neutral ground that they all agree to work remotely on as long as no one tries anything.  Lest the *ahem* banhammer falls on their head.

[Chroia]

Oh hey, a thread about the same subject as my post in the Devstream thread.

 

 

This may seem a nit, and perhaps it is.

This may appear to be missing the point. And it might be.

 

But please, please, for the sake of my sanity.

Do not have all the Syndicates so close to each other.

Gameplay and story segregation. I get it.

But these are groups that are so antagonistic of each other, that they're willing to send their units

(my head-canon is that the various specter/hitsquad units are placeholders, because otherwise Warframe's world has completely lost any consistency)

up against certainly-mystic-possibly-quasi-deific robot cyborg ninja spacezombie(?) abominations who gained their powers beyond the veil of space and time (potentially among other, less savory sources, if Rhino P's entry means what I think it means.), and which are known to have killed enough <units> to depopulate a small nation Oh sorry, forgot the x10 Rep increase large city.

Not only that, but their units take the mission.

Repeatedly.

After previous squads got themselves wiped out trying the same feat.

 

And you want me to believe that they wouldn't even consider mustering a squad, walking into the neighbor's enclave and roflmurdering them all?

Seriously?

 

One of the things I play games for, is the immersion.

And my suspension of disbelief can only take so much.

 

+1 OP.

[Marthrym]

Logic went out the window when Dark Sectors went PvP. Because of it, the whole "Tenno are brothers" makes no sense anymore. So having Syndicates send death squads on our "brothers" and not giving a crap about it actually fits now.

Which kinda sucks IMHO, I really prefered the "Tenno Unity". Because the way PvP was implemented (not PvP itself, just to be clear) broke the "bonds" between Tenno. We're supposed to be all in the same boat, brothers and sisters in arms, the only ones we can't count on are each others, all that jazz. Now even that doesn't work anymore, since Tenno fight each others for a few credits and resources, that they could have had a lot more easily by working all together instead of forming alliances that just aimlessly destroy each others. Feels like we just shot ourselves in the head, and the parts of the brain that used "logic" and discernment are gone, but the rest is still here and kinda goes through the motions, not caring, like it's high or something.^^'

Edited November 19, 2014 by Marthrym

[Donnell]

I dont think it will be final. They have only just given us a sneek-peek at it.

 

Personally, I think they should have the syndicates as flag ships that have docked for supplies and trade. Perhaps have their ships orbiting the hub which gives more space for each faction.

*shrugs* 

[CY13ERPUNK]

Oh hey, a thread about the same subject as my post in the Devstream thread.

 

 

 

+1 OP.

 

+1 to you good sir, for saying it before i did =], +1 period, just for saying it at all, cuz it needed to be said

[Archeyef]

...Maybe the Hubs are neutral ground, enforced by the numerous Tenno warriors that are probably going to be there 24/7? Just a thought...

 

I mean, from what we saw of the Syndicate rooms, each syndicate will have less than 10, probably less than 5 representatives per Hub. A single Tenno can take out, at the very, very least, 100 elite Grineer troops in the span of a few minutes, and does so multiple times a day. And there are probably going to be a lot more than a single Tenno on the Hubs at any given time. And as the Tenno, despite aiding different syndicates, are loyal to each other and work to "maintain balance," the various Syndicates are probably both comforted by the fact that the Tenno will not allow any other Syndicate to harm them, and wary of starting anything for the same reason. Even one Tenno would be fully capable of stopping anything that any Syndicate tries to start.

 

There. There's a decent reason of why they would agree to this.

[HolyMacintosh]

I'd like to think of them as rival colleges set up in booths that are right next to each other at the college fair.

 

As long as the ones that I've got negative relations with insult me and tell me to get out, I'm fine. Or give some 'good' reason to join their syndicate.

[RazielsDarkness]

You also have to consider the fact that the hub preview was an early design, meaning that it most likely will change in the future. Due to these different posts, I feel that there will be a pretty high chance that each syndicate will either be spaced out further or like someone said here, different syndicates on their own hubs. If you remember, the hub does look pretty small in the video, so I feel that they will expand the size of the hub once they find other things to add to it, which will allow them to expand it. Just something I thought while reading this.