Syndicate Key Packs Are Overpowered

[UltimateSpinDash]

I don't think I ever called for a nerf like this, although I supported a few. So I feel like I need this.

UPDATE: The discussion led to a suggestion I really like.

 

Basically, Key Tiers are unlocked gradually as you rank up. Rank 2 would give you access to T1 Keys, Rank 5 to T4 ones. Also, the prices are adjusted. The proposition was:

5000 for 5 T1 keys

10000 for 5 T2 keys

15000 for 5 T3 keys

20000 for 5 T4 keys

 

I think this balances the whole thing quite well and makes Syndicates a powerful way to gain the keys you need without making you swim in T4 ones. It also negates the need for one-pack-per-day-and-syndicate cap I proposed.

 

Outdated suggestion by me:

 

Since the Rep gain was increased by 10, getting the 5000 Rep for a Key pack is really no challenge if you play high level content. It's even easier with a booster.

 

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, I like the amount of Rep we get right now, but the key packs need a change. Why?

 

Because I am currently in possession of 78 (EDIT: I had five of those yesterday) T4 Survival Keys, a number that is increasing rapidly. I really don't mind buying keys from the syndicates, but having access to so many keys feels like cheating to me. For reference, I have 22 T4 Defense and 16 T4 Interception keys left, all of which I got from farming Survival ones before Syndicates hit.

 

Also, T4 Survivals give Fusion cores like candy, which is supposed to make them valuable. Now everyone who is with the left three Syndicates has access to unlimited amounts.

 

 

One solution would be to increase the price of the Key packs, but I don't think that's the best solution.

 

I think a better solution would be to do two things:

 

- You can only buy one key pack per day and syndicate. Why? Because Syndicates don't have millions of those keys just lying around. They only have limited supplies.

This resets along with daily login rewards.

- Endless mission key packs (Survival, Defense, Interception) only contain three keys instead of five. NOTE: Non-endless key packs remain untouched by this.

 

 

 

If other key packs are added, it could be solved like this:

- If it's x of a specific key (say T3 Exterminate), the pack can only be purchased once per day.

- If DE decides to give every Syndicate a random pack, like X T1 keys (no specific ones), they can be purchased as often as the player wants to. -> Getting Tx keys isn't the problem, getting specific ones is.

 

 

 

I am aware not everyone will like this, but at if this remains unchanged T4 keys, with the possible exception of T4 Sabotage (although that one only contains stuff from other keys), will become worthless.

 

 

For clarification purposes, I am not a trader, so I don't get anything if prices increase. If anything, I would profit from prices going down, but that's no excuse to make T4 keys the easiest to get.

Edited November 20, 2014 by UltimateSpinDash

[DeathKoala]

If you have more keys than you know what to do with, stop buying them.

[SgtFlex]

I do have to agree myself. Some stuff (Like dailies) need their rep amounts changed, and I think the Tower Keys either need to be decreased to just one key, or up the amount of rep required for it. Or just remove them entirely.

 

If you have more keys than you know what to do with, stop buying them.

Easier access = lower value. This game has an economy, and when things become easier/harder to obtain, prices fluctuate along with the difficulty of obtaining such. Right now, I can easily do 1 T4D, and get 5 T4D's back from one run.

[Shinobu_Scorpion]

I would be perfectly ok with this. 

[Imaru]

I feel like a good alternative suggestion to your yours would be make the key packs 5 random t4 keys or t3/4 keys. That'd probably serve to "nerf" them.

[Somedude1000]

To be fair, you earned the right to buy those keys, you had to get the xp and do missions in the name of those entities to reach the rank that gives keys, even if it is rank 2, then you had to sacrifice stuff to them, what you choose to do with the rep points after that is your choice, I mean, shouldn't it be?

 

 

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

considering u have to wait 4 waves in interception just to get a chance to get 1 key is annoying. this option is syndicates is refreshing and simplar. i like it.

[osuman]

I only have 6 t4s keys, just because you have tons doesn't mean everyone has tons

[Imaru]

I only have 6 t4s keys, just because you have tons doesn't mean everyone has tons

Their point isn't that everyone has tons, but that they're now too easy to get. They're valueless now because of how easy they are to obtain.

[[DE]Saske]

+1 from me too.

[PerishedFraud]

Indeed. Limit it to 10 keys per day, and double the price is what I'd do. Its enough to farm, but not nearly enough to make them worthless.

[Liminal]

Hmm ... I don't think the availability of ingame items should be balanced around trade. (if that's what people mean by worthless)

Edited November 19, 2014 by The_Doc

[Mcl_Blue]

Since the Rep gain was increased by 10, getting the 5000 Rep for a Key pack is really no challenge if you play high level content. It's even easier with a booster.

I think that, if we're doing high level content, we deserve those damn keys.

 

Because I am currently in possession of 78 T4 Survival Keys, a number that is increasing rapidly. I really don't mind buying keys from the syndicates, but having access to so many keys feels like cheating to me. For reference, I have 22 T4 Defense and 16 T4 Interception keys left, all of which I got from farming Survival ones before Syndicates hit.

I have 2 of each T4 key.

 

 

 

...That said, you actually do make a surprisingly good point, and raise some interesting possible solutions. The daily cap one, in particular, stood out to me. It limits the supply, without making it be TOO little.

 

Indeed. Limit it to 10 keys per day, and double the price is what I'd do. Its enough to farm, but not nearly enough to make them worthless.

Yeah, like that.

 

 

Or just remove them entirely.

NO.

[[DE]Momaw]

Regrettably I do agree that T4 keys are too trivial right now.  Making them a once-per-day affair would lend a bit more weight to your decisions.

[UltimateSpinDash]

To be fair, you earned the right to buy those keys, you had to get the xp and do missions in the name of those entities to reach the rank that gives keys, even if it is rank 2, then you had to sacrifice stuff to them, what you choose to do with the rep points after that is your choice, I mean, shouldn't it be?

The right to buy those keys isn't the problem. The problem is that siding with a syndicate basically gives you unlimited amounts of those keys. If you are in a clan, are just one friend who does the other syndicates, you basically have infinity T4 keys. I refuse to believe that this is the devs intention.

 

considering u have to wait 4 waves in interception just to get a chance to get 1 key is annoying. this option is syndicates is refreshing and simplar. i like it.

Yes, buying keys is a good thing on it's own, but it should not take away every reason to ever play interception again.

 

I only have 6 t4s keys, just because you have tons doesn't mean everyone has tons

Are you in ANY syndicate? It doesn't matter which one you join, you pretty much have infinite amounts of their keys, if you have someone to trade syndicate stuff with, you never have to play interception again except for alerts or syndicate missions.

 

 

 

Also, how much else do these syndicates currently have?

 

Most of their ability augments are lackluster or, while interesting, not worth the slot. The weapon mods are mostly for weapons rarely used (I won't start using the jaw sword because it gets a 100% damage mod), and while I like that DE indirectly buffs certain weapons with them, like the Hek (which I got recently and can't wait to try with that SM mod on). The sigils are great, the specters are mostly worthless (except maybe the Shield Ospreys in a defense mission).

[Xaelroa]

I actually disagree with the mentality of what you post here, for the very reason that having the keys readily available in such an abundant mount actually DOES enable more people to play high level regularly. It drives the cost of cores and the like down, not to mention puts more t4 prime parts on the market, which takes their costs down to affordable levels for those who may not have as much disposable income. I can understand where this would make the trader millionaire crowd upset, but to be honest, if traders are allowed to get their way with everything it trashes the economy of the game, and with the number of people who tend to refuse to create squads with anyone under <insert favorite mastery rank cutoff here>, it would eventually create a situation in which prime parts/gear from t4s would become the mark of "elitists". I've seen the same behavior in several other MMOs, both free to play and pay to play. It never ends well.

 

edit: I do not strictly mean RL dollars as disposable income. Available time for play is also a premium for some who enjoy this game, thus excess free time to put into the game also becomes a form of disposable "income" for those individuals.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Azrahan

[DSpite]

I fail to see how you can place a value on objects that drop everywhere anyway, and you have constantly people that ask you "please can you help me with missions X".

 

The entire team gets them when one person gets them, it's just that before they were random, and now you can aim at getting what you like.

 

You have all been allowed to play your favorite missions, and now you complain? You could have done the same by spamming chat and asking "want invite to T3 Defense". So what's changed exactly, other then getting MORE control, and less penalty from mission screwups, ie loss of keys?

[RCOAS]

Keys stuff is pretty messed up. But it does make sense because they have a massive army, but buying 60+ keys a day isn't that sensible. Maybe they could add a cap to how much you can buy.

[JDP04]

the "buy limit per day" seems fair enough. it will not affect casual player like me. :)

and while we're at it, DE please make t1, t2, t3 also buyable..

ofc, with limit per day also.

Edited November 19, 2014 by JDP04

[UltimateSpinDash]

I actually disagree with the mentality of what you post here, for the very reason that having the keys readily available in such an abundant mount actually DOES enable more people to play high level regularly. It drives the cost of cores and the like down, not to mention puts more t4 prime parts on the market, which takes their costs down to affordable levels for those who may not have as much disposable income. I can understand where this would make the trader millionaire crowd upset, but to be honest, if traders are allowed to get their way with everything it trashes the economy of the game, and with the number of people who tend to refuse to create squads with anyone under <insert favorite mastery rank cutoff here>, it would eventually create a situation in which prime parts/gear from t4s would become the mark of "elitists". I've seen the same behavior in several other MMOs, both free to play and pay to play. It never ends well.

 

edit: I do not strictly mean RL dollars as disposable income. Available time for play is also a premium for some who enjoy this game, thus excess free time to put into the game also becomes a form of disposable "income" for those individuals.

 

I fail to see how you can place a value on objects that drop everywhere anyway, and you have constantly people that ask you "please can you help me with missions X".

 

The entire team gets them when one person gets them, it's just that before they were random, and now you can aim at getting what you like.

 

You have all been allowed to play your favorite missions, and now you complain? You could have done the same by spamming chat and asking "want invite to T3 Defense". So what's changed exactly, other then getting MORE control, and less penalty from mission screwups, ie loss of keys?

T4 Keys are supposed the be the rarest and most wanted keys. Now they are the most easy to obtain (farming T1 keys is more time consuming, especially if you need specific ones). While I do think keys need some changes, especially since Defense and Interception now rotate rewards but have no guaranteed key rewards (the few nodes that did no longer have it as far as I know), throwing them at you isn't the solution.

 

Keys stuff is pretty messed up. But it does make sense because they have a massive army, but buying 60+ keys a day isn't that sensible. Maybe they could add a cap to how much you can buy.

They also have to supply a high amount of Tenno working for them. And I honestly don't see how a resistance group like Steel Meridian has a massive army.

[Rydian]

A daily purchase limit would not add weight to the decision whether to purchase it or not for two reasons.

1 - If you need it you still buy it.  There's no additional downside to buying it, right?  So buy one.

2 - A daily purchase limit would encourage people to buy them even when they don't need them in order to hoard, because a day spent without buying the key is one less potential key.

 

Cost/value adjustments are a more realistic solution.  They're too cheap for too many keys, right?  If that's the problem, then attack the problem, don't make workarounds.  In this case make them cost more for less keys.  10K rep for 3 keys is over triple the cost per-key, and seems more reasonable for getting a guarantee of specific key types.

[Karlox]

Easier access = lower value. This game has an economy, and when things become easier/harder to obtain, prices fluctuate along with the difficulty of obtaining such. Right now, I can easily do 1 T4D, and get 5 T4D's back from one run.

 

Easier access =/= Enough equipment to clear it to a decent time. Not everyone's running around with full frame, full primary, full secondary, full melee and full companion.

[SgtFlex]

Easier access =/= Enough equipment to clear it to a decent time. Not everyone's running around with full frame, full primary, full secondary, full melee and full companion.

Not everyone, but Veteran players practically have access to them now on a daily basis. I am part of 3 syndicates atm and can get a pack of 5 T4D's, T4S's, and T4E's at practically anytime I please. It's just far too easy to obtain them now.

[Shifted]

shush with your nerfs, I can finally have a source of T4Ex so i can play a bit solo.

 

Farming interception/survival for T4/3 keys is a nightmare.

[_Malware]

Their point isn't that everyone has tons, but that they're now too easy to get. They're valueless now because of how easy they are to obtain.

thats actually not even close to true, if everyone checked out the market theres a huge boom in key trading now