New Gameplay With Infested: No Vision, No Movespeed, No Damage, No Energy. You Wot, De?

[LtZefar]

I can only imaging that if you don't bring with you Vauban on Defense missions you're going to fail badly. Unless the Snow globe will protect the objective from the tar pits that also damage it.

 

The bees are just so annoying when they reduce your vision and when you're in a group it just jumps around. Then you have tar pits slowing you down. When you get out of those you might get maggots on you. So it's just "Keep rolling rolling rolling, keep rolling rolling rolling". Which is not all that fun.

 

Oh and I did the 30 minute event just fine with Nova(Speed type), Vauban, Nekro and Trinity. We camped near 2 entrances and just put up Vortex and let them run into it. Still got hit with a lot of status effects from the new enemies.

 

I really hope they don't do the same for Grineer and Corpus because then the game won't just be fun to play. Because it'll just be about trying to get rid of status effects all the damn time.

[DiabolusUrsus]

The only changes i would be happy with.

 

Getting rid of the Anctients hook (its not needed with the new enemies)

 

Nerf the graphic effect the Swarm maos have.

 

increase the hitbox of maggots to make them easier to shoot.

 

Mostly agreed.

1. Make the hook into an Eximus ability to replace the Caustic and Venomous eximi. (Why are these things that are weak to fire spraying me with fire...? Why do they need an ability that removes the one weakness from their most dangerous attack?) Give the hook a face-lift so it doesn't just look like a Scorpion grapple.

 

2. Agreed completely. I think it would be as simple as putting a cooldown on the effect. Once you clear it, you're immune for 5 seconds or so. 

 

3. Agreed for now. I'd like to see some changes to the way elementals work sometime in the future so that blast adds some AOE to bullets or something. Then you can mod for being able to shoot smaller targets/larger numbers of targets more easily with just about any gun. 

 

4. Remove the Mutalist Moas' shockwave attacks; this job is already done by the leaper. Maybe leapers need a bit of a buff, I dunno, but between Leapers, Volatile Runners, Swarm, and Tar Moas, the Infested should have enough CC. 

[Feallike]

Mostly agreed.

1. Make the hook into an Eximus ability to replace the Caustic and Venomous eximi. (Why are these things that are weak to fire spraying me with fire...? Why do they need an ability that removes the one weakness from their most dangerous attack?) Give the hook a face-lift so it doesn't just look like a Scorpion grapple.

 

2. Agreed completely. I think it would be as simple as putting a cooldown on the effect. Once you clear it, you're immune for 5 seconds or so. 

 

3. Agreed for now. I'd like to see some changes to the way elementals work sometime in the future so that blast adds some AOE to bullets or something. Then you can mod for being able to shoot smaller targets/larger numbers of targets more easily with just about any gun. 

 

4. Remove the Mutalist Moas' shockwave attacks; this job is already done by the leaper. Maybe leapers need a bit of a buff, I dunno, but between Leapers, Volatile Runners, Swarm, and Tar Moas, the Infested should have enough CC. 

 

Mostly agreed.

 

4. Maybe give them a Heavy gunner type of knockdown. That would make it allot better. Or get rid of it and give Jumpers are AOE after a charge, or better accuracy with a cooldown buff.

[Qynchou]

My first and only run, last 5 minutes of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz-L94Jro7k

Difficult, not impossible, not hell, annoying but with a payoff. I used a total of 3 revives during the mission + some old school health recovery (too lazy to get the new ones, but will have to eventually lol).

I liked it.

[Praetorveel]

I played 3 mutalist missions today...our team was wiped every time.  Yes only 3 because I have life outside the game.

I have never seen a spawn rate like that before.  Doesn't help that there's always one leeroy jenkins in the group.  

I agree with the OP, these new enemies are frustrating.  When a mission depends on having the 'right' loadout of frames and gear it's no longer fun.  I started getting flash backs of a certain mmo that saw me getting dropped from groups because I had the wrong character build.  

I don't run and gun. I'm a methodical stealth player...you know, like a ninja...but these new mutalist missions and enemies are just a slap in the face to anyone that isn't a hardcore run 'n gun.  It's fast becoming a one trick pony game. I probably won't touch the mutalist missions again for a while.

 

To quote ripley. I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Seems the only way to handle the new enemies.

[Yazeth]

The blinding effect could have been alright, if it wasn't bloody permanent.

 

Do you mean the swarms? You can always roll or melee.

 

If you're complaining about how you weren't able to get rid of it, stay away from others who do have it.

[Otaiken]

There really should be diminishing returns on all the CC in the game.

 

After you roll out of the swarm you should be free of it for at least a couple of seconds so it doesn't feel so pointless. Same with the constant knockdowns and pulls, when you get hit by it once... fair enough, my fault (though with the amount of enemies, that's debatable), but getting chain CCd is just too punishing.

 

Also, energy drain is one of the cheapest most annoying ways to create "difficulty".

 

Having to use every tool in your arsenal to survive = difficult and satisfying

Having your tools arbitrarily taken away = artificial game difficulty, bad game design

 

This is especially infuriating when fighting bosses. "Oh yeah, our players are too OP. So we're just gonna strip them of all abilities for every boss fight."

 

This doesn't encourage tactics. It encourages taking Rhino with Boltor Prime and taking the boss down inside of 10 seconds.

Edited December 1, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Barhandar]

Agreed. The game currently is "snipe the invulnerable-half-the-time Healer, nuke, repeat" and if Mutalists will be in normal Infested missions... they will all become utter hell.

[LGear]

As a melee only player I have to agree with these new mobs for melee players are definitely a bit of a pain. Ranged players or players that spam abilities probably don't feel the effects as much.

 

 

I'm a melee only player too, yet I found the 30 minute survival easy using my Galatine + Valkyr, which is my standard against most Infested missions anyway. Melee attacks remove the Swarm clouds so you can see better, and the Valkyr's armor means the Tar pits don't do much.

 

And I find ranged attacks more difficult against Tar and Swarm in a Survival setting, since both cripple the inherent advantages of range, i.e. vision and DPS respectively, whereas melee don't rely so much on both to be effective.

[Kainosh]

New enemies are fine. Its the Ancients who ruin it all.  They just disable too hard. When you try to escape radiation puddle and they knock you back...

[AtlasNine]

Great technical game that allows players a good degree of freedom and tactics via different Warframe's and their ability's...

 

Until every enemy drains your energy. Game instantly devolves into frustrating mess.

 

 - If the game isn't fun I'm not going to spend money.

[Ska-boo]

My first and only run, last 5 minutes of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz-L94Jro7k

Difficult, not impossible, not hell, annoying but with a payoff. I used a total of 3 revives during the mission + some old school health recovery (too lazy to get the new ones, but will have to eventually lol).

I liked it.

And so, you think this gameplay looks alright? You, at least, have normal FPS, mine dropped to hell when there were too many of them. But even with your FPS it sometimes hard to see what exactly is hitting you and what are you hitting. And look at the collision. Half of the time in battle you run on their heads or get thrown around by those shockwaves in the most ridiculous ways. Even the trashiest hack-and-slash games have more order in them. Just button smashing and restores spam. Yeah, nah.

[LeadToRise]

Yes, then when there's no challenge you go all out "ITS TOO EZ"

[Ska-boo]

Yes, then when there's no challenge you go all out "ITS TOO EZ"

You have a party of chess with an incompetent man and win him easily. Then you ask for a bigger challenge and I bend you over the chess table and shove a stick up your &#!, then sit you back down and make you play with the same man.

Will you be more challenged?

[HackShield]

Small tip: When doing infested survival bring corrosive + heat.

Your damage wont be reduced by the toxic ancients like if you were using gas or toxic, and you'll be dealing bonus damage to ancients and normal units.

But I thuroughly enjoy the new infested.

They prove challenging and difficult without just slapping the controls away from you or outright stopping you from doing things.

They just make it harder to manouver and see.

The tar moas remove the one benefit we have over 99% of the infested: our ability to quickly run away and climb ontop of things.

The swarm moas prevent us from as easily shooting at the other infested until they are close enough to actually do anything so that we cant sit back and snipe them from across the map.

The brood mother spawns weak enemies that deal low damage and slow us, similar to the tar moas but different enough to be a different level of threat.

The boilers do what the infested do well: overwhelm us with more numbers.

Since infested are mostly pure melee they have to have ways to lock us down a bit so that they can actually get into melee range and do something.

Before those units were added it was far to easy to sit back and kill all of the infested before they got within range to do anything.

Now the normal infested actually stand a chance of getting in range and hurting me and I have to prioritize targets.

Thats a very good thing and a welcome change to the infested.

dont works cause they have dmg reduction not a specific typ just and simple pile and stack the aura till 90~95% dmg reduce and it can apply to all lvl of enemy so that lvl 16 infested you doing less then 400 or even 100 dmg to em YAY party all the time

Edited December 1, 2014 by [DE]Danielle
Removed CAPS

[RCOAS]

I'm fine with it. Its challenging and awesome.

[LeadToRise]

You have a party of chess with an incompetent man and win him easily. Then you ask for a bigger challenge and I bend you over the chess table and shove a stick up your @$$, then sit you back down and make you play with the same man.

Will you be more challenged?

Thats not even close to what we're talking about. Why so butthurt too?

[Liminal]

I think the goo moa is definitely good, except for the occasional instakilling. It's the kind of CC I consider fair.

The bees are plain annoying.

The boiler is good.

The brood-mother is okay (I personally have an issue with the maggots, but that's because I hate "medusa heads").

 

However, when combined with energy drain eximus and ancient auras, it's too freaking much.  Fighting the infested now means there is always at least one type of CC on you unless you are rhino or you spam vortex.

And this combined with the Infested tilesets (extra small hallways, lots of blind spots) means I don't even want to play Eris anymore. The annoyance factor is too damn high.

 

In conclusion: I think the biggest problem are the old infested mechanics.

[Tsukinoki]

@The_Doc
The thing with the instakilling goo is that it deals radiation damage.
We have alloy armor.
So with 75% bonus damage per tick at any decent level its even going to kill a valkyr quickly.

At least our shields resist radiation damage, so as long as our shields dont go down the goo is perfectly fine.

I think its an attempt by DE to provide a reason to not just stack pure vitality when going against infested and to bring along some measure of shields as well.

That being said, since the goo does do 75% bonus damage against our health I think that it could stand to deal less damage.
Especially when it hits you right in the face.

For the bees, I actually don't think they are too bad.
They limit your site but are generally easy to get rid of by rolling or melee.
Their point is to give the infested a chance to get closer while being a minor annoyance, and I think that they do that quite well.
And you can still shoot and hope that you hit things until you think its safe to get rid of the swarm.

I do agree that the infested should have way less energy drain eximi units.
The ancient auras aren't too bad, BUT I think that they should limit how much they can stack.  Otherwise the auras aren't too bad generally.

[Liminal]

I think its an attempt by DE to provide a reason to not just stack pure vitality when going against infested and to bring along some measure of shields as well.

Well it doesn't work! Every frame I own (except Valkyr) has maxed redirection, vigor and rank8 vitality installed and I still get OHKd on squishy frames.

All that radiation damage does is prove that damage 2.0 has always been fundamentally flawed.

 

They limit your site but are generally easy to get rid of by rolling or melee.

Their point is to give the infested a chance to get closer while being a minor annoyance, and I think that they do that quite well.

idk man, getting rid of the bees is easy, okay, but they reattach (or you get new ones) half a second later. I don't think any enemy should be designed to be annoying.

[Ska-boo]

Thats not even close to what we're talking about.

Maybe it is not, for someone how perceives a stick up his butt as a challenge, but it surely is for me, cause I don't see how darkening my monitor, removing my control and lovering my FPS is a challenge. It is exactly what is happening here: I'm trying to play a game and developers shove a metaphorical stick in my @$$, in the form of disrupting player-character interface which prevents me from pressing buttons and winning game, while leaving my opponent the same - the simpliest AI that can only walk in straight lines and use base attack

 

And I am butthurt, m8, cause I was trying to make that point in several medium-long posts and you just walk in and, without, it sems, even reading them, throw in some short baseless bawl, that not only diminishes what I say, but assumes what is not right. What challenge? Who goes where and says "too ez"? Me? I don't remember that, someone else here? Maybe, but how does it concern the topic?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ska-boo

[Tsukinoki]

@The_Doc
To your second point:
I completely agree that they re-attach too quickly and that in general enemies (and possibly even players) should have diminishing returns on CC until for a while you can't be affected by that type of CC again.
That would honestly solve a lot of problems with CC in this game.

But the bee's themselves aren't that horrible of an addition to the game.
And outside of the eris maps the re-affliction isn't that big of a problem if you remove the source.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Temmron]

Personally I like the new enemies a LOT

I really love them,

But I think the best would be to reduce the spawn rate of the MOAs, I just feel like they are harder then boilers/ brood mothers

Another nice thing would be to reduce the visual effects that you get with being affected by swarm/tar/worms, to improve the performance

 

 

*Edit*

I think a big problem are just the maps, since infested have an incredible advantage in narrow hallways and such

 

*edit edit*

Please delete the F*ing poison eximus and lower the energy comsumption of drain eximus <.<

Edited December 1, 2014 by Seyenas

[cannonfodder1982]

i like all the new stuff. i dont like 1 hit kills in anyway shape or form (looking at you too Phorid) i have been managing the tethra survival fairly well, but ive usually got Nova Trin Saryn and Nekros as i look for them, but it does involve mainly spamming 4 and occasionally a different number,

 

But i have to agree with most posts draining is too much, ancient pull attack is just broken, as it it changes direction and catches you even if you hard charge direction after its fired. im sure i read this enemy isnt supposed to have this attack, but i might be wrong. bee/fuzz or whatever isnt so bad, i just ind a lot of people dont roll it away so keep passing it to team mates,

 

as for FPS loss, this is a difficult one, are DE to blame or are people using substandard hardware? i personally have no probs at all, but im lucky enough to have a high end card. with this game still in beta the requirements to run it are likely to change, however if DE have a listed specs, which myself have never seen, then the game should run at acceptable levels for everyone who meets or exceeds them specs. if they cannot deliver they should change the specs to better reflect what is needed to access EVERYTHING at playable rates, my bro has just switched from a 4830 which was struggling on LOW so everyone under that imo is pushing it. rest of his spec was decent quad core cpu 4 gig ram blah blah,

more content is good but more filler is not do good, also i hate archwing and was never excited by the concept at any point

 

Cannon

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Even without playing the mutualist stuff, I think the parasitic eximus get to be too much with infested.  Later waves/survival inevitably becomes a parasitic eximus hoe-down where you have 2-3 parasitic eximus approaching from multiple direction and your energy just *poofs*.  It's especially bad on some maps since the aura extends through walls, but the path to the eximus isn't necessarily direct - and they may not even be moving.  You wind up playing the "guess where the eximus is" game because those eximus aren't attacking.  

 

The nature of ancients as-is (disruptors, toxic, etc.) already promotes a hands off vortex-style of play for infested.

 

It seems like the way infested work is an attempt to neutralize the killers from up on high approach to infested, but the short of it all is that it becomes a matter of un-fun death-trap or monotonous as your two options.