So What Is De's Reasoning For Contagion To Continue To Exist?

[OverlordMcGeek]

And please don't say a syndicate augment will be coming. Nothing that can be thought of will make Saryn's 3rd any better off. Unless we go completely off the rails in which it should be made an entirely different ability like so many people, myself included, have suggested already for nearing 2 years now.

[ZirilanOfTheClaw]

What's the problem with Contagion? Saryn is tanky enough to endure a melee fight, this skill is awesome on melee based builds. 

 

I don't see any other skill so usefull in melee combat.

[bejuizb]

 

I don't see any other skill so usefull in melee combat.

Warcry says Hi.

[OverlordMcGeek]

What's the problem with Contagion? Saryn is tanky enough to endure a melee fight, this skill is awesome on melee based builds. 

 

I don't see any other skill so usefull in melee combat.

its a 75% buff from a high costing energy consuming warframe ability to base damage of the melee.

Edited December 8, 2014 by OverlordMcGeek

[AM-Bunny]

Answer: it would be awkward for Saryn to have only 3 moves while everyone else has 4, and they haven't put any thought into a replacement. Honestly about every frame has a move you could say this about.

[ndantony]

...this Tenno wants Saryn to be nefted.

[Anatolius]

Its not a bad ability, its just lackluster as heck because its meh on light grineer

which you would be better off with corrosion

and then its meh for corpus on lower levels (because toxic will not cut it against a level 30 Tech)

but you would STILL be better off with viral

 

so overall: toxic makes some of the best elements in the game

but toxic alone is nothing to get hype over

 

Edit: oh wait

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Contagion

I was going off old news

it actually aint that bad

I am gonna go test this now!

Edited December 8, 2014 by Anatolius

[FLSH_BNG]

At most, I would just ask that it be turned into a toxic aura around Saryn, like the Toxic Ancients have, that's all.

[Archwizard]

What's the problem with Contagion? Saryn is tanky enough to endure a melee fight, this skill is awesome on melee based builds. 

 

I don't see any other skill so usefull in melee combat.

 

Speed and Warcry, actually, plus Hysteria if you're feeling generous.

What you're forgetting is that there's a key difference between "useful in melee combat" and "ONLY useful in melee combat"; with "The Sword Alone", you don't need to have a melee weapon anymore.

 

Compare skills like Speed and Warcry, which similarly have melee boosts, but also have extra supportive advantages outside of the user's currently-equipped weapon so that there can always be some use out of it. Their effects also benefit the entire party, and have enough notable influence over the user's playstyle that people actually notice when they're in use or not.

[Kruglov]

What is DE's reasoning for Contagion to continue to exist?

 

Heres some more questions to ponder:

 

Why does Desecrate still exist?

Why does Super Jump still exist?

Why do Shadows of the Dead ghosts block both players AND bullets?

Why does Psychic Bolts still exist?

Why does Well of Life still exist?

Why does Cataclysm still prevent players from picking up ammo or health or mission objectives?

Why does Ember exist?

Why do arcane helmets still exist?

Why does Frost's Freeze exist when Ice Wave is the same ability but 10x better?

Why does Saryn's shed skin and Loki's decoy both have a timer limit AND a health limit?

[Ronyn]

Contagions base duration needs to be WAY higher.

Sadly a very common saryn build is to mod her for short duration to make miasma super deadly.

This renders contagion just plain useless. Molt also gets hit by that but still serves some purpose.

De can fix this a number of ways. One way is to take contagion and molt off of duration and make it work differently.

Like if molt just had hp and exploded when destroyed. Also explodes if another is cast.

Contagion could have a number of charges that expend per hit or even be a toggle skill that burns energy while active.

You get the idea.

[Mind_Bullets]

The way I see it, Contagion got outmoded by channeling. Channeling provides a damage multiplier to melee with zero casting time, no duration limitations, and energy is only spent on hit. It can also be modded to up the multiplier and reduce the cost, really leaving Contagion in the dust. And every frame with a melee weapon has at least the basic version of this by default.

 

I think Contagion needs to become a modifier of channeling. Make it a toggled ability which costs nothing to activate, and when enabled it will turn channeling on (even if you aren't in melee mode) and add another 75% on as toxic along with the the channeling multiplier.  The energy cost would be the channeling cost +5 or so on hit.

 

This would give Saryn the unique ability to do channeling damage with quick melee which I think would be a fun and unique mechanic. I don't see any way to realistically one up channeling with a timed ability so I say just work with what you've got. 

[MechaKnight]

Hey, this thread's relevant to what I was just posting about.

 

 

Following suit with the posts above, Valkyr is in a league all her own--her durability in EHP is nearly double that of Saryn's. Saryn is far more comparable to Oberon. Do you see droves of people saying that Oberon is an elite melee tank with epic damage mitigation who's suitable to face-tank everything with melee weapons? Probably not.

 

Not only is Oberon more comparable to Saryn in EHP, he also has the ability to remove status effects from himself with an ability as well. Additionally, he can heal himself and allies with healing that scales to become better with both health and duration mods, which would actually make Renewal a roundabout way to gain pseudo damage mitigation far better than any option Saryn has. Oberon also has similar crowd control in Reckoning, with additional duration based blind status, and flat radiation status to help even more.

 

However, Oberon is justified to be this tanky due to the nature of being a jack-of-trades who thematically should be providing support to allies and debuffing enemies, but this game all dissolves into spamming ability #4. Oberon is not considered a melee tank because he doesn't have actual damage mitigation to decrease damage taken, which is valuable when approaching higher level enemies to engage in melee combat. While healing can imitate damage mitigation, it is not as effective against enemies that deal damage in large hits, since Oberon could potentially be incapacitated in one shot.

 

So no, Saryn does not excel in damage mitigation or crowd control. She's directly comparable to Oberon, and still needs some tweaks to reach this level of potential ability and kit synergy. The most frequently recommended solution by players is to give Contagion actual damage mitigation along with toxic aura, which would differentiate herself from Oberon by making her more offensive but less supportive. Additionally, Miasma should have some form of perk to positive duration modding, instead of the penalty in damage it suffers now. Maybe Molt can also have some relevant feature to make duration more attractive for it, but the lackluster function of Molt can be compensated with better function in Venom. They both scale off duration and occupy the same kit.

 

To sum up the above: Oberon and Saryn are based off very similar archetype schemes, where one is supportive and the other is offensive. To distinguish itself from Renewal, Contagion should feature damage mitigation and toxic aura. This will further cement the concept that Saryn is offensive.

 

Any warframe with supposed melee ability has to have some form of damage mitigation and/or support. As of currently, Oberon's stats are similar but Renewal promotes melee more than Contagion does.

Edited December 9, 2014 by MechaKnight

[RSITH]

Well that's your opinion every power has its own unique style, just like our players. You never know who uses it or nah?

[OverlordMcGeek]

What is DE's reasoning for Contagion to continue to exist?

 

Heres some more questions to ponder:

 

Why does Desecrate still exist?

Why does Super Jump still exist?

Why do Shadows of the Dead ghosts block both players AND bullets?

Why does Psychic Bolts still exist?

Why does Well of Life still exist?

Why does Cataclysm still prevent players from picking up ammo or health or mission objectives?

Why does Ember exist?

Why do arcane helmets still exist?

Why does Frost's Freeze exist when Ice Wave is the same ability but 10x better?

Why does Saryn's shed skin and Loki's decoy both have a timer limit AND a health limit?

Those aren't really questions to ponder, except maybe Frost's Freeze, cuz that be dumb on him.

[Archistopheles]

It works with Redeemer. You can thank me later.

[Edgedemon]

it is a good ability and fit the frame but...

 

i do find it under powered considering its duration and energy cost, it should get its cost reduced to roar/war cry levels or its duration increased by 5 fold

[Edgedemon]

Why does Desecrate still exist?

you mean the only good ability form nekros? so that we use him and slightly increase our chances when battling against the RNG gods.

 

Why does Super Jump still exist?

its fun can be useful occasionally and still better than dive bomb.

 

 

Why does Psychic Bolts still exist?

pacifying bolts nuff said.

 

Why does Ember exist?

the only frame with skill synergy and the best infested killer?

 

Why does Frost's Freeze exist when Ice Wave is the same ability but 10x better?

long range

 

Why does Saryn's shed skin and Loki's decoy both have a timer limit AND a health limit?

Saryn's is a time bomb and loki... i guess it makes sense a trained soldier only falls for the decoy until it notices that its not getting any damage.

[SandwitchPrime]

What's the problem with Contagion? Saryn is tanky enough to endure a melee fight, this skill is awesome on melee based builds. 

 

I don't see any other skill so usefull in melee combat.

warcry speed invisiblity smoke bomb hysteria, melee based you say?

[SandwitchPrime]

 

the only frame with skill synergy and the best infested killer?

 

 

 

 

mesa valkyr volt limbo want to say hi

best infested killer? plz, ancients and heavier infested units recieve no extra damage form fire,  getin a nova or sayrn is much better.

using WoF in the middle of infested is a good way to spend your revives.

[SandwitchPrime]

make contagion instantly pop all the spores in a certain range and cause them to use all it's ticks dealing stacking viral damage would be nice, fits the name too

[akira_him]

Focusing on contagion with increased duration is not as strong as reducing the duration and use miasma

if contagion have a rework that works like the bees on infested moa to give it some cc/ also works on guns

it will be more useful

[OverlordMcGeek]

Perhaps change it into a add viral to all weapons thing? 

[(PSN)Cokain6]

And please don't say a syndicate augment will be coming. Nothing that can be thought of will make Saryn's 3rd any better off. Unless we go completely off the rails in which it should be made an entirely different ability like so many people, myself included, have suggested already for nearing 2 years now.

Curious what suggestion would be better than Saryn coating her melee weapon with her own toxin and buffing the melee damage instantly? 

[Archistopheles]

Curious what suggestion would be better than Saryn coating her melee weapon with her own toxin and buffing the melee damage instantly?

I've been asking that question since U8.