Void Drop Tables' Rotation C Was Stealth Nerfed, Please Raise Awareness Of This Issue

[Bibliothekar]

I PERSONALLY think that getting Void Survival table C needs help.

 

36 Frost Prime helms, 12 Forma in 18 runs (3 to 60 min, the rest to 40) and then FINALLY one Nova Prime Chassis.

My experience for T4 Survival is pretty similar - got tons and tons of Frost Systems and Mag Helmets, but no Loki Helmet (which is all I was after at that point, because Arbiters). I don't even want to go there for the Vasto BP, although I've already got both other parts.

I'd strongly advise against going to the wiki and looking at the void missions sorted by reward if you don't want to make yourself sad. It really would ease up things a lot if we could get rid of all those duplicates in the tables - after that's done, shift the rest around a bit, so that single-reward missions (Ext, Sab, Cap) don't have more than three or four different rewards at best (including Forma), maybe bundle keys (I'd be okay with getting keys from a T1 mission, if it was more than just one) and increase the chance for higher-tier keys (seriously, who needs 50 T2E?).

[Adaptor-Face]

DE needs to put some of the more errr.... common..... rewards in rotation C and non endless modes into rotation A and B. There is only 1(!) part in rotation A, T3D, T4S has 2, and the Drop rates of Sicarus Prime Barrel, Mag Prime Chassis and Mag Prime BP needs a serous look. Drop these in Rotation A and B in missions that has none/few parts.

In short DE needs to completely rejumble the drop tables in the void after the rewards stack change. 

[GhostSwordsman]

I absolutely agree with most of the sentiments expressed in this thread.

 

I personally draw the line of frustration at the point when I have to go into the star chart to specifically farm void keys(because I usually end up with enough in between new prime gear being released) because It's no fun to grind just so you can grind.

 

Gonna quote something I put into a thread of my own on a similar topic here too:

... because even though the C rotations are overly saturated with prime parts, you used to be guaranteed a prime part from that section of the table when you reached 20 min/waves, respectively. Now that this has changed, it's become ridiculously hard to get RNG to drop any of the parts listed in rotation C.

 

If DE is going to have resources such as cores, forma, and O-cells, etc. be included in the C rotation drops, then they need to reduce the amount of prime gear that is located there and move it somewhere else, that way it's not a 5% chance(being split up between the 5+ parts that exist in all C rotationa and being weighted drops as well) at the C rotation part and a 95% chance at anything other than a prime part at rotation C.

[ZenroZephon]

The problem is the number of loot in the tables, as with any RNG, the more numbers, the less likely the one you want will pop up. Let's say your number is 6, and you got a normal 6-sided dice. Well you got a 1 in 6 chance of your number popping up which is quite a lot. Now with your same number, but with a 20-sided dice, you got a 1 in 20 chance, now you got way less of a chance to even see you number pop up before you quit. This goes for all things with RNG, the more numbers the table has, the less likely you will ever see the one you want. It why moving the very old Prime gear to the orokin lab in the dojo would help this (what looks nerfed but just too many numbers) RNG in the void. And if they are doing that then you'll see things pop up a lot more that you want and need.

[cyrus106]

OP, I hope you don't mind I've archived the thread as 11 XPS files.

Not at all. I feel this is a very important thread

[Filas312]

There's a problem though: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/172911-prime-gear-drop-locations 

 

Looking at the official post with drops it seems that the Rotation crap on Defense was DE's intent. And if it's really that way, then I'll probably consider just dropping the game as it is, simply because Void used to be so much better - or easier, I don't care about actually saying that I liked it easier. Or less tedious.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Filas312

[(PSN)j232000]

We are in dire need of a Drop Tables 3.0 at this point.  Drop Tables 2.0 came at a time when Ember was extemely hard to farm, but each new Prime frame after then has gotten even worse, and the overcrowded tables problem that necessitated that fix is back with a vengeance.  So is the 'insulting rewards one': Forma blueprints have become as common as any of the other bad rewards that were taken out of the tables.  (As a general rule, absolutely nothing in Rotation C should be possible to get from Rotation A of the same mission.  Having a few 'bad' rewards in the table may have been tolerable when the rotations were ABCCCCCC, but now that they're AABCAABC and the next shot requires four more cycles it clearly isn't.)

 

Further, it's just a good idea to shake up the tables now and again.  There are towers that haven't had a single change in two or three rounds of primes, including one tower 4 (Mobile Defense, which isn't doing syndicate balance any favors)

 

There are still a fair number of empty places to spread the rewards into and alleviate the issue: T1-3 Interception could be a thing, if the endless modes are going to be 20-round cycles they could become ABCD, Orokin Derelict Sabotage could get a unique drop table and any of the other Derelict modes could be given end rewards in general so that there'd be a reason to run any of the short ones other than Extermination (and if they're getting tables adding more mission types to the Derelict could also make sense: Hive, say.)

[Bibliothekar]

We are in dire need of a Drop Tables 3.0 at this point.

The problem I see with Drop Tables in general is who's in charge of them: [DE]-"the heck am I even doing here"-Sheldon. They made him Studio Manager, but because nobody at DE HQ seems to know what's associated with that job (my guess: general management, not directly involved in development*), they gave him the drop tables to watch over. And looking at his past record, he seems pretty lost there, too. I mean, his answer to "certain stances are to tiresome to get" was to make the next stance (Tonfas) uncommon and drop like a common mod. Seriously, I appreciate that he tries, but I think they should give the drop tables to someone else.

 

/e: * Looking at 4A's job description - pretty decent guess.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[mooser6]

Good post, OP. Rotation C should be prime parts and nothing else. This is becoming increasingly important with the addition of more primed frames and weapons. There is a reason people are offering 600 plat (and more) for Loki Prime, Nova Prime, etc...

[UltimateSpinDash]

There's a problem though: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/172911-prime-gear-drop-locations

 

Looking at the official post with drops it seems that the Rotation crap on Defense was DE's intent. And if it's really that way, then I'll probably consider just dropping the game as it is, simply because Void used to be so much better - or easier, I don't care about actually saying that I liked it easier. Or less tedious.

Yes, Interception and Defense have been running on AABC since Update 15.

Do you really expect them to keep throwing C Rotations at you after wave 15 now that you keep everything?

[Filas312]

Yes, Interception and Defense have been running on AABC since Update 15.

Do you really expect them to keep throwing C Rotations at you after wave 15 now that you keep everything?

I'd much rather welcome back ABCCCC without keeping the rest. Don't you think that it is stupid that on wave 45 you don't get rewarded for staying that long, being greeted with something that you could get just by leaving the game on wave 40 and starting again?

Edited January 2, 2015 by Filas312

[Eyeless]

Yes, Interception and Defense have been running on AABC since Update 15.

Do you really expect them to keep throwing C Rotations at you after wave 15 now that you keep everything?

 

No of course not. That'd make the grind something the player could actually start to kind of enjoy and not actually feel like they're losing in the end! 

 

That'd be rewarding! 

 

Would you like another Anemic Agility? It's got your Loki Prime on it! 

[Bibliothekar]

Do you really expect them to keep throwing C Rotations at you after wave 15 now that you keep everything?

I'd much rather welcome back ABCCCC without keeping the rest.

They could make it AABC-ABC-BC-BC-C... with keeping everything. That way, they don't throw C rotations at us but we're actually rewarded as we reach higher waves.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[UltimateSpinDash]

I'd much rather welcome back ABCCCC without keeping the rest. Don't you think that it is stupid that on wave 45 you don't get rewarded for staying that long, being greeted with something that you could get just by leaving the game on wave 40 and starting again?

People asked for stacking rewards and we got it. The fact is, before the change getting items in lower rotations was a huge hassle and when people saw something they needed they had to leave the team to get it. Sucks when your Frost leaves because the mission dropped something he needs.

 

And the fact that 45 minutes is A rotation like 5 minutes is also the case for Survival and Excavation.

 

The only thing that really needs to be adjusted are the C Rotation drop chances for Defense and Interception. Simply because they are most likely still balanced around ABCCCCCCCCCCCC.

[Filas312]

People asked for stacking rewards and we got it. The fact is, before the change getting items in lower rotations was a huge hassle and when people saw something they needed they had to leave the team to get it. Sucks when your Frost leaves because the mission dropped something he needs.

 

And the fact that 45 minutes is A rotation like 5 minutes is also the case for Survival and Excavation.

 

The only thing that really needs to be adjusted are the C Rotation drop chances for Defense and Interception. Simply because they are most likely still balanced around ABCCCCCCCCCCCC.

We asked for stacking rewards, nobody asked DE to ruin the tables just so we would have even much more of a hassle. In the end nobody needs those stacked rewards, as you won't reach anything that proves valuable. Frost Prime Parts on T4S@RotC don't help it, either. Right now we're drowning in completely valueless rewards. It was a switch from one extreme to the other one - right now getting some stuff is so tedious (or costy, but I don't really mind using up more T4 keys than before - we've got syndicates, but that doesn't help) and annoying that I don't want to try anymore. And I won't buy the stuff, that's for sure, because market is a place full of greedy people, who gain not because of their traits, but because they were lucky. It's not sad or painful, it's just stupid. We've got a market driven by a random number generator, and we can't even be sure if it's fully random!

 

DE either screwed up (taking the mistake up then, and fitting the tables to it - possible) or deliberately took advantage of the situation just to make the gambling more annoying.

 

Yes - I don't really think WF is about grind. It's all gamble. I have a lot of things to do, I do none of them, just because I'm a person of weak will and they've just made my life even worse.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Filas312

[UltimateSpinDash]

We asked for stacking rewards, nobody asked DE to ruin the tables just so we would have even much more of a hassle. In the end nobody needs those stacked rewards, as you won't reach anything that proves valuable. Frost Prime Parts on T4S@RotC don't help it, either. 

 

DE either screwed up (taking the mistake up then, and fitting the tables to it - possible) or deliberately took advantage of the situation just to make the gambling more annoying.

 

Yes - I don't really think WF is about grind. It's all gamble.

True on that. I actually believe they "forgot" (RNG stuff? It's probably on their list, but not too high. It's no inconvenience to them after all) to adjust the drops to the new system.

 

That said, I think that while it's ok to shove the new shinies into C rotation, it would be nice if B got some love. Maybe move some older prime stuff from C to B. After all, you normally get B as often as C.

[SOAP_Pmac]

I'd much rather welcome back ABCCCC without keeping the rest. Don't you think that it is stupid that on wave 45 you don't get rewarded for staying that long, being greeted with something that you could get just by leaving the game on wave 40 and starting again?

It should be AABCABCBCCCCCC IMO, and keep all rewards.

 

That means by wave/minute 45 every reward after that is C and A rewards drop out after wave 25 and B drops out after 40.

 

I mean if the enemies are going to becoming increasingly more difficult then the reward should follow suit, otherwise there is 0 reason other than saving a key for people to stay passed wave 20.

Edited January 2, 2015 by SOAP_Pmac

[RealPandemonium]

We are in dire need of a Drop Tables 3.0 at this point.  Drop Tables 2.0 came at a time when Ember was extemely hard to farm

The encryption and ensuing weighting nonsense happened when Rhino's Prime Access began, not Ember's.  

[cyrus106]

There's a problem though: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/172911-prime-gear-drop-locations 

 

Looking at the official post with drops it seems that the Rotation crap on Defense was DE's intent. And if it's really that way, then I'll probably consider just dropping the game as it is, simply because Void used to be so much better - or easier, I don't care about actually saying that I liked it easier. Or less tedious.

I already mentioned that removed line in the OP post XD

[plznohurtme]

People asked for stacking rewards and we got it. The fact is, before the change getting items in lower rotations was a huge hassle and when people saw something they needed they had to leave the team to get it. Sucks when your Frost leaves because the mission dropped something he needs.

 

And the fact that 45 minutes is A rotation like 5 minutes is also the case for Survival and Excavation.

 

The only thing that really needs to be adjusted are the C Rotation drop chances for Defense and Interception. Simply because they are most likely still balanced around ABCCCCCCCCCCCC.

 

Everything certainly is balanced still around ABC~ and it's absolutely absurd how annoying things are now and the fact that they've essentially discouraged people who have keys from playing further since there is no point unless you need to save a key.  It's faster to just start over at the 20m/w20 point.

 

It should be AABCABCBCCCCCC IMO, and keep all rewards.

 

That means by wave/minute 45 every reward after that is C and A rewards drop out after wave 25 and B drops out after 40.

 

I mean if the enemies are going to becoming increasingly more difficult then the reward should follow suit, otherwise there is 0 reason other than saving a key for people to stay passed wave 20.

 

This would be a very good way to keep all the tables as they are now without having to make many changes.  I'm not sure whether I'd prefer them balancing out the drops between a/b/c or your suggestion, but one of the two absolutely has to happen.  Either one would make getting cores/forma less terrible in rotation C... though I do think they should double up the rewards for C if they keep them in (ex: 10 cores/2 forma for t4).

[TrinityPrime]

It should be AABCABCBCCCCCC IMO, and keep all rewards.

 

That means by wave/minute 45 every reward after that is C and A rewards drop out after wave 25 and B drops out after 40.

 

I mean if the enemies are going to becoming increasingly more difficult then the reward should follow suit, otherwise there is 0 reason other than saving a key for people to stay passed wave 20.

 

Shoutout to the teams that go several hours straight or that one guy who went into T4 Survival solo and came out 7 hours later.  I wonder what kinda rewards they'd get.  

 

Would that mess up the psuedo economy?

Edited January 2, 2015 by KnotOfMetal

[cyrus106]

Many solutions would be much more preferable than our current situation

[AoiiToori]

I suggest AABBCC rotation.

[MaverickZero]

I suggest AABBCC rotation.

That's nonsense. 25 min to get to C??

[AlphaHorseman]

It should be AABCABCBCCCCCC IMO, and keep all rewards.

 

That means by wave/minute 45 every reward after that is C and A rewards drop out after wave 25 and B drops out after 40.

 

I mean if the enemies are going to becoming increasingly more difficult then the reward should follow suit, otherwise there is 0 reason other than saving a key for people to stay passed wave 20.

You, my good sir, have my +1, this is a grand solution that ensures that prime parts are still a bit harder to get, but they aren't outrageously annoying as they are now.