gkuoni Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Mag needs tweaks aswell. Yup, especially her last 2 abilities, but they already anounced that her ultimate is getting a rework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hades_Underworld Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yes, I will keep making these posts until something is done because something needs to be done. And before you say that he doesn't need these, let me ask you, should we forsake three abilities for the sake of one? Frost has 1 defensive ability, the others are offensive. If that's the case, your precious Rhino is just a defensive frame with Iron Skin, or Nekros is offensive because of Soul Punch. Well, where's his CC in Avalanche? Nova has better CC than him, and so does Vauban. For someone with ice abilities, he can't do anything related to the element. He can't de-buff, he can't CC and he certainly can't dish out any amount of damage. I've thought of some nice things to be added to his abilities just to finally get him on his feet and out of pressing 3 all day. Freeze. Okay, it's alright now, but the damage is actually too high and still breaks with one hit. Once again, lower the damage, have all the enemies frozen stay inactive for a certain amount of time and not a certain amount of damage. Ice Wave. This one is alright, would be better if it had knockdown as well as spread out in a cone. This would make it much more viable and fit in with CC more. Snow Globe. Timer or health, not both. Also, on destruction, have a small blast that will deal a small amount of damage and freeze enemies for a brief period of time, or something similar. Either way, limit it's use to only 3 or 4 at a time and allow allies to shoot through it as well as our beloved Frosts. Oh an not to mention, maybe tone down the visual effects inside the globe? Kinda hard to see out of it at times. And just as another post had said (can't remember which) add cracks to show health and a shattering effect when the health has been fully depleted. Avalanche. Oh boy... This has been the bane of Frost's existence since day one. Not only can it do no damage, but it has literally no utility. There is no other reason to use it, unless your enemies are under level 32. Give it some massive CC potential, as well as those frozen extremely weak to cold attacks, as well as weak to normal attacks but not as weak. Also, when frozen, have them explode and damage nearby enemies and have a small chance to freeze them as well. The damage shouldn't be overpowered, but don't keep having the underpowered trend with Frost going. Also, maybe leave an aura of cold that procs enemies for a short period of time? Or alternatively, those who come out of being frozen, have them get a 100% cold proc for a little while, just to give the team some reprieve. Keep in mind, this is an ice themed frame. Ice is normally used in other games to not just deal massive damage, but wear down enemies and break down their defenses. EDIT: Also, maybe this should push enemies away a bit when they are relatively close to Frost. This could be used as an awesome area lock down, in combination with Ice Wave and Freeze if they were to implement this. Not to mention, his stats sure could use a polish up as well. They aren't up to date with current Warframes, and that should also be addressed. That only shows just how long it's been since anything has been done to him. He's too slow and he should have a bit more armor if you ask me. Of course there are more details, but I haven't really paid too much attention to the stats, my main concern has always been how he will scale with enemies and currently, he has no scaling. Most other frames have scaling, and yet they get buffs as well. What about our good ol' Frosty? I'm not out to take away his defensive abilities, but rather improve the other 3 he has. Frost is not fine where he is. Every frame can do what he does but better. So where does he come in? Been asking myself that question a lot lately. I've always loved ice themed characters and stuff in games, but this one... Oh boy this one. DE only did something to him twice, if you count the tiny little change they did to Freeze that actually doesn't make that much of a difference because it only deals small amount of damage instead of freezing nearby targets. Don't sacrifice 3 abilities for just 1. Snow globe is good, so instead of leaving Frost as a walking nerf, buff his other 3 to be on the same level as Snow Globe. I'm not asking for damage, so this is not a case of me wanting him to be overpowered. I actually want him to stop being so underpowered. This entire post sounds to me as if you played Nova for a long time and then went to frost. Ex. " Also, on destruction, have a small blast that will deal a small amount of damage and freeze enemies for a brief period of time, ", " Also, when frozen, have them explode and damage nearby enemies and have a small chance to freeze them as well. ". Sounds a lot like nova molecular prime to me. Yes frost could be redone perhaps with some improvements. It may not seem like it to others but it seems a lot like it to me that you have played to much nova and then switched to frost. Also I took Rhino as Defensive because His Roar ability I use defensibly. When I or my Squad are in a tight position, I do my Roar. His Charge Knocks down enemies, Meaning you can get away or use that to dish out damage. His stomp is used to slow enemies by 99% allowing easy get away or to attempt to dish out damage before they get up. It matters not how the abilities work to me, merely how I use them. Need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancli Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 This entire post sounds to me as if you played Nova for a long time and then went to frost. Ex. " Also, on destruction, have a small blast that will deal a small amount of damage and freeze enemies for a brief period of time, ", " Also, when frozen, have them explode and damage nearby enemies and have a small chance to freeze them as well. ". Sounds a lot like nova molecular prime to me. Yes frost could be redone perhaps with some improvements. It may not seem like it to others but it seems a lot like it to me that you have played to much nova and then switched to frost. Also I took Rhino as Defensive because His Roar ability I use defensibly. When I or my Squad are in a tight position, I do my Roar. His Charge Knocks down enemies, Meaning you can get away or use that to dish out damage. His stomp is used to slow enemies by 99% allowing easy get away or to attempt to dish out damage before they get up. It matters not how the abilities work to me, merely how I use them. Need I go on? It seems we like explosions. Some of us played Demoman on Team Fortress xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanityman Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 You don't use him enough or don't use all his abilities Freeze: Single target Not hit scan so it has a very long time to hit any enemy if it ever does Breaks on damage Damage very small Unreliable cc Ice wave: for a second ability it's very situational it has small width/length and will not hit enemies all over the place ienemys will just walk away as you cast it. Gr damage is not brilliant? The ice proc is good however that augment should have been the within the skill in the first place. Snow globe; it's ok however high levels destroy it in seconds even with the immunity period which adds damage to health heavy gunners take that down in seconds while it also has a timer and health while also not protecting players from explosions on the out side which makes no sense at all Avalanche: it has the smallest range in game while having Ice which is bad against grinder and the damage is still not great and has no cc to speak of. People that say he has cc are wrong cc is what helps the cast animation from taking damage cc is what helps after that. Freeze: hits main target and splashes to the other targets around the main target while also not Broken by damage and becomes hit scan while taking all damage out Range: effects splash radius Duration: effects the duration of freeze Ice wave: augment should be an inate ability to freeze the floor. On cast should knockdown the targets then freeze them and becomes a cone Range: effects width/length of cone Duration: how long the ice floor stays Snow globe:remove the timer and limit the globes to 3-4 then if casted after four the first goes away. Make it stop aoe from going through the globe. Freezes all procs. On death of the globe knocks targets down Range: size of snow globe Strength: HP of the globe Duration: freeze from the cast Avalanche: freezes enemy's after the animation for a while. Degrdades health for infested/armour for grinder/shields for corpus Range: range of Avalanche Strength: damage/ degrading of HP/armour/shields Duration: time for frozen targets So much misinformation right here. Freeze: Single target YES Not hit scan so it has a very long time to hit any enemy if it ever does ok, sure Breaks on damage yup, otherwise it would be OP Damage very small irrelevant Unreliable cc WRONG, it freezes if you hit, AIM. What you forgot: it's a perfect paralyze. THE ONLY ONE IN THE GAME. One free headshot. Feed your Dread, you know you want to. More you forgot: When are enemies the most dangerous? When they're really close to you, aware of you and you are reloading. Run through a door in the void reloading your Supra and encounter a heavy gunner? Freeze him while reloading with no penalty and then roast her with your fresh mag. "Ice wave: for a second ability it's very situational it has small width/length and will not hit enemies all over the place enemys will just walk away as you cast it. Gr damage is not brilliant? The ice proc is good however that augment should have been the within the skill in the first place." Do you even Frost? For a damage ability it hits hard, has solid range, and decent width. The augment changes what you'd use the power to do (it's also one of the most powerful). If snowglobe was as weak as you say, there would be a lot more complaining. It's still relevant, and still powerful. Avalanche is has solid range, another damn good paralyze attached to it, and it hits hard. All damage abilities lose out when enemies go 35+. The "omfg avalanche does S#&$ dmg on level40 heavy gunners" is a terrible argument. (I'm not saying you personally said this, just getting it out of the way). Stretch makes Frost positively terrifyingly useful (for both Avalanche and augmented Ice Wave). The CC attached to avalanche has allowed me to assist my teammates in getting someone back up more times than they can count. If you say it's not useful, you aren't trying to push Frosty to his limits. Frost is endgame material, on so many levels. On the topic of armor: it's not just a Frost problem. All frames except Valkyr suffer from armor being irrelevant. Frost, Rhino, Ash, Cali and Saryn should probably have their armor values tweaked (or have the whole armor system overhauled, again). On the topic of speed: Rush is amazing, it is love, it is life, and it's a Frost with a Scindo Prime bowling over a dozen enemies and casually walking out of it brushing the ballista guts off his tux. I hate the idea of mandatory mods, but any non defense mission, I find myself running rush on Frosty. And I do not regret it :D . Other frames need a hard look before frost. Do some cheese builds with him, experiment with niche builds, try a new playstyle with him. He is more effective and more versatile because of his power combination than so many other frames. You won't be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tris1 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 So much misinformation right here. no misinformation at all freeze without the breaking would not be OP at all go see other abilities in the game jeez there are frames like loki invisibly that's OP isn't it freeze is the worst 1st in game and it is unrealiable cc as it can be broken by team mates just randomly shooting considering that most guns do enough damage it would take only one shot to unfreeze while once it has unfrozen it has no animation from being unfrozen meaning it shoots straight away. avalanche does not have solid range its one of the lowest ranges in the game and there is no cc as ice said above having the animation as the cc is not cc its just used to stop enemies while you use the ability its the same as crush straight after that animation they attack. cc is what comes after the ability has been casted and causing the enemies to slow/freeze/blind. his 4th is nearly the worst in the game snow globe is weak on high level put 2 heavy gunners near the globe and it will pop within seconds that's using the invulnerability period that adds there damage.while since they added bombards in void missions that snowglobe doesn't matter there blast range is huge that you will get regardless ice wave is smaller than oberons hallowed ground for width and it is situational as many have said its width is short and the length is ok I will say it has pretty gd cc as it does however it has limited use since frost is meant to be a defensive frame rush should not be a mandatory for any frame and should not even exist as it is now rhino is meant to be a tank and yet he has better speed no warframe should have a speed penalty it make no sense at all and yes I do main frost hes my most used frame while I used him straight after having Excalibur as a starter frame and before they took out the timer for snowglobe and added damage to the skills which no one wanted. Frost is meant to be a tank and not a damage dealer if he was meant to be a damage dealer he would have damage like nova. nearly all his abilities can be done better by most frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djego27 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) I did quite a bit solo missions and high wave defence with my frost. I also hosted multiple of the L150 interception alert missions successfully(for me and a few people from my clan that had issues with the escalation on her own) with my frost as key frame, while I didn't see a single request for a frost in recruitment for that event. People from recruitment that I invited today actually called it boring afterwards, what is kind of funny, since my first group, that I hosted shortly after the "200 people did it" post while everybody was still trying it with a rep farming setup asked me "Why do you want to bring a frost?". The reason for this is mostly because people don't know that frost, with the ice wave impedance argument, can be a very good CC option, in combination with a slow nova even as good as a vauban or banshee, with the added benifit that you will not have to gamble and lose squishy frames to gunfire of a respawn, since you have them in a snowglobe till the round is won. Freeze Freeze should keep the target locked down for 5s even while taking damage, if it takes damage after 5s it changes to the slow effect from ice wave impedance for the rest of the duration(what should be 10s unaffected by mods), if the target gets no damage it stays completely frozen for the hole duration. The problem with freeze is that it is not useful in combination with AOE damage, what you will have nearly every single time in defence missions. With the 5s it would be a good tool to freeze a heavy target while you reload or revive somebody for a predictable and useful amount of time. Ice Wave Ice wave impedance actually fixes the skill and most of frosts issues that he has nothing really going for him beside snowglobe. It can be used to great effect to prevent targets from entering the snowglobe or as very strong CC skill when you stack it with mprime. At the same time it is a very good mod outside of defence as well, since it gives you a good soft CC AOE ability without blocking gunfire. The effect of ice wave impedance should be build into the skill and the argument should be changed to give a damage reduction to everybody staying on it, giving frost another tool to protect people in the globe from explosion damage and giving him a alternative to protect himself and teammates without blocking gunfire. Snow globe It is mostly fine as it is, beside the AOE damage penetrating it at higher levels far to easy. A infinite duration would be bad, because globes you put up to revive people or slow down targets would stay infinite up and block gunfire. Having it completely immune to damage and just on a duration is unlikely to return, but it is not that much of a issue outside of very high levels, where the damage that bypasses the globe is already more problematic then to refresh to globe every few seconds. The only thing that really should be added is a indicator of the HP for the globe, be it a number or add 5 snow particles, similar to nova to frost when snow globe is up and remove one for every 20% HP lost. Avalanche It should freeze everything in range for a few seconds, making it a good tool to regain control if stuff goes wrong. However since frost with changes to ice wave and freeze would have good CC tools already another option could be to give it a short damage buff vs the targets, making frost more flexible to provide both offensive as well as defensive ability's, what would make him more well rounded overall and more attractive in other mission types then defence. One more thing, Frost should have the coolerant aura ability of a sentinel as passive. It helps a lot for a slow frame at close range to prevent getting hit what is very useful vs infested and fits the frame idea like a glove. Edited March 1, 2015 by Djego27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendanatorX Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Mhmm, agreed, I do actually like frost, I think even if they just added aoe cold procs on the other 3 abilities that even that for a short term bump up would be nice, avalanche needs cold proc and/or to remain frozen in place for a few seconds, agreed 100% on ice wave, cone and knockback for sure, im glad this post exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridantus Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) No one seem to care about the real neglected frame, Volt.. All he get are ability's visual rework and literally nothing else..Edit : Nvm, just read the poll thingAnyway, imho the only buff frost need are cold procs.. pretty much all elemental frame proc their elemental when a skill is used, so yeah, Freeze & Avalanche should do a 100% cold proc.. Or maybe just rework Avalanche into a sustained AoE with constant cold proc. Edited March 2, 2015 by Veridantus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kjcenco Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Its good to see other people base their concerns about Frost since it really does seem like he has been forgotten by the devs. I know there are other frames that are in a similar state but since this is a thread about Frost we should focus on him. Most people seem to agree that Frost needs more cc even at the cost of damage which is fine since his abilities scale poorly. In terms of Frost as a frame I feel that DE need to buff his armour to around the 300 - 400 mark. This also needs to be the prime buff that Frost prime has over the normal Frost, for example normal Frost should have 350 base armour and the prime version should have 400. An armour buff makes a lot of sense since he is a slow frame and the ability he is best known for not only benefits from an armour buff but it basically forces him to stay put in one area and so it would increase his chances of surviving. In terms of his moves I think all of his abilities need tweaking and in many cases buffed. Freeze: This ability should have the projectile speed buffed to make it worthwhile in my opinion, otherwise in the majority of cases you miles well just shoot the enemy with your gun. As an alternative idea the freeze ability could freeze the chosen targets weapon making it inoperable to use for the duration.Think of it as being an aim able version of Mesa's shooting gallery. Enemies with guns would try to clear the ice off their jammed weapon, melee units wouldn't be able to lift their weapons and units such as the infested will have their limbs frozen. Just a random idea, not necessarily looking for support on it, just food for thought. Ice wave: This ability should have basically been the way it is with the augment mod as standard. Given that the description for this ability is that it "Sends a wave of razor sharp, crystallized ice toward an enemy, dealing heavy damage." I would have thought that the augment mod should add a bleed proc to anyone hit by it. Even if the bleed % of initial damage dealt was less than ash's shuriken 35% and less than 7 ticks over 6 seconds, for example 20% damage and 5 ticks over 12 seconds it would have been balanced since you can hit a lot more people in once use. It would have been nice to have some armour / shield ignore instead of just cold procs all the time. Snow globe: As most people have said, DE need to choose health or duration, not both. I highly doubt they would ever go back to the invincible globe so they should just get rid of the duration on the globe. Then we can see the health of the globe instead of the duration which would help a lot. A base health of 5000 instead of 3500 would be nice, especially with an armour buff as stated earlier on in this post. People have expressed concern over a globe being in a bad spot for a full game and not being able to get rid of it due to unlimited duration, the only way to get red of it that I can think off the top of my head is that you should be able to get rid of it by using Freeze on it a couple of times. You would have to be on the outside of the globe and hit the globe to destroy it. If you are inside it then this shouldn't remove a globe you're standing in. Avalanche: This ability needs to be focused around being a pure cc move with some damage, 6 seconds of cold proc with around a 1000 cold damage would be good enough in my opinion. It would give the player some breathing room to get revives, restore ammo, health or to just reload. Re casting should restart the 6 second cc. tl;dr: Buff Frost's armour and bring more cc to his abilities :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxMAGGOTxX Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 This entire post sounds to me as if you played Nova for a long time and then went to frost. Ex. " Also, on destruction, have a small blast that will deal a small amount of damage and freeze enemies for a brief period of time, ", " Also, when frozen, have them explode and damage nearby enemies and have a small chance to freeze them as well. ". Sounds a lot like nova molecular prime to me. Yes frost could be redone perhaps with some improvements. It may not seem like it to others but it seems a lot like it to me that you have played to much nova and then switched to frost. Also I took Rhino as Defensive because His Roar ability I use defensibly. When I or my Squad are in a tight position, I do my Roar. His Charge Knocks down enemies, Meaning you can get away or use that to dish out damage. His stomp is used to slow enemies by 99% allowing easy get away or to attempt to dish out damage before they get up. It matters not how the abilities work to me, merely how I use them. Need I go on? I haven't even built Nova, much less played her lol. I'm just going with some rad CC moves so Frost won't rely solely on damage, because we all know what those abilities do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeigo Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Some simple improvements. Some of these may have been mentioned, I did not read all 30 pgs of feedback. FREEZE: The attack that 'shatters' the frozen target gains a damage multiplier. Logic: frozen things are physically vulnerable(in games at least). ICE WAVE: Staggers before the cold proc. Logic: being impaled should equate to some reaction(not to mention help us not get killed by the targets while using it). AVALANCHE: Channel ability. Enemies that come within range take damage over time and are frozen solid for full duration of channel(DE would most likely cap duration like embers WoF anyway). For globe I hope they take this brilliant opportunity and have the augment modify the globe to make it mobile like eximus(eximi?). A pure mechanical augmentaion which would help frost support outside of stationary defensive missions at the cost of a slot sounds reasonable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightdragon64 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 yes! fost really needs a buff or something... i haven't used my frost in a long time due to the fact that he only seems useful in defence missions or sometimes survival... but at higher levels almost all his abilities are completely useless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostSwordsman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Haha, I just had to skim/sift through 31 pages to make sure I hadn't posted in this thread before.(as I had upvoted the OP back when it was created and the thread title was familiar) I pretty much agree with everything in this thread that is pro-buff.(being honest, I have not read it all, but I still agree) However, there are really only two things involving Frost that would make me extremely disappointed if they did not happen. 1. Frost/Frost Prime getting cloth physics for his overcoat and 2. Frost getting a syndicate augment for snow globe that allows it to behave exactly like ice eximi globes. Extra thing that would be uber awesome to see: Avalanche get's it's innate freeze effect on enemies that are not killed back. That was a great form of CC, don't know why they took it away. (or just any type of cc, like it used to have) Edited March 3, 2015 by GhostSwordsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-Is-Just-A-Gun Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think Frost needs a bit of a skill rework, but I don't think all of those ideas are viable. I think DE should either change his 3rd ability so either allied fire can go through the exterior of the shields, or change it so it's an aura like those eximus' we know and love. Maybe even both. His 4th ability has so little damage and CC that it's practically useless, and it's long casting time is debilitating. Furthermore his 2nd ability has limited use only with Ice Wave Impedance and melee mobs. His 1st ability is probably his second most useful, but considering the fact that the CC is only sustained as long as the target isn't damaged, it only has it's uses on things like bombards, heavy gunners and the like. In the end game, the only actual use you're gonna get out of it is the damage buff you can throw around with it's augment, Freeze Force. Since they can't be used on bosses, and they do no damage on their own merits anyways, most of his abilities aside from his 3rd ability are useless without augments. He's somewhat of a support frame at this point, and his 3rd ability is very situational, having Frost practically useless outside of defense missions. To go into length about his 3rd ability, it makes him rather immobile, and you usually need more than one shield for these reasons: -Bombard's explosions bypass the shield, requiring more shields to put you farther from the blasts. -Enemies can simply walk into the shield to shoot you. -The slow's range isn't affected by power range mods. These are hardly the only complaints for his 3rd ability. There's also the intense visual effects from the inside that make it difficult to see, especially with multiple shields going. And that's saying that a bombard or something else doesn't knock you out and jack your shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I think Frost needs a bit of a skill rework, but I don't think all of those ideas are viable. I think DE should either change his 3rd ability so either allied fire can go through the exterior of the shields, or change it so it's an aura like those eximus' we know and love. Maybe even both. His 4th ability has so little damage and CC that it's practically useless, and it's long casting time is debilitating. Furthermore his 2nd ability has limited use only with Ice Wave Impedance and melee mobs. His 1st ability is probably his second most useful, but considering the fact that the CC is only sustained as long as the target isn't damaged, it only has it's uses on things like bombards, heavy gunners and the like. In the end game, the only actual use you're gonna get out of it is the damage buff you can throw around with it's augment, Freeze Force. Since they can't be used on bosses, and they do no damage on their own merits anyways, most of his abilities aside from his 3rd ability are useless without augments. He's somewhat of a support frame at this point, and his 3rd ability is very situational, having Frost practically useless outside of defense missions. To go into length about his 3rd ability, it makes him rather immobile, and you usually need more than one shield for these reasons: -Bombard's explosions bypass the shield, requiring more shields to put you farther from the blasts. -Enemies can simply walk into the shield to shoot you. -The slow's range isn't affected by power range mods. These are hardly the only complaints for his 3rd ability. There's also the intense visual effects from the inside that make it difficult to see, especially with multiple shields going. And that's saying that a bombard or something else doesn't knock you out and jack your shield. I don't know if you've not seen the recent updates, or haven't played Frost in a while, but now, if you cast a Snow Globe while inside of another Snow Globe, the new Globe adds on the health of the previous Globe onto it, and replaces it. Also, the Slow Range of the Globe also now scales with Globe Size. Though the Bombards issue still does stand. For his other abilities, Freeze could be fixed by making it Duration based, rather than Duration and health based. It severely limits the scale ability of the power. Also making it (and Fireball) hit-scan would go leagues in making the only long range ability Frost has actually useful and hit its mark, rather than miss and not do it's job. To ensure its versatility throughout different builds, giving it a bit of a tighter radius, but also ensuring that all enemies within that radius are frozen for the Duration also helps to ensure its usefulness throughout content. Freeze now becomes an ability that is reliable CC, and also fits into his Defensive or Offensive builds quite well. Ice Wave needs scale ability without the augment. To help with this, (and to fit how it worked in the original WarFrame Trailer where Frost made his Debut), giving Ice Wave Knock Back would go far in making the ability useful for more than just a slow-button. Now Ice Wave can be used defensively to push enemies away from key defensive targets (i.e. Defense Pods, Consoles in Mobile Defense), and the ability becomes a CC tool to help shift the flow of enemies. Snow Globe...I would think that the only mechanical change is applying the Armor Value of the casting Frost to the Globes health, rather than it stacking onto the health, would be better. A defensive Frost build now has a Snow Globe with higher EHP, and with his baseline armor being 190 (hopefully this gets a boost, since he's supposed to be a tank frame), offensive Frosts have some breathing room to work with. Allowing allies with Punch Through weapons to shoot through the Globe also makes sense. But yes, aesthetic changes to make it a bit more usable would be great. EDIT: Making Snow Globe either Duration or Health would be a very key element to making sure that Snow Globe scales into content. But, since they've gone with Duration based before, and not liked it, I would say Health Based is how they're going to play it. If they do go with Health Based, a visual timer or indicator on the Globe to see it's health would be nice. It could be something where, when a player aims at a globe, they can see the HP left onto the globe. When they turn away, the HP numbers disappear. Also, giving the globe visual cues, such as cracking when being fired upon and losing HP, and also an audible shattering sound as it breaks would go a long way in giving players indicators on how a globe is doing. As a side note, giving the casting Frost a visual HP bar on his HUD would be good, as the casting Frost can now monitor the health of their active globe(s) to see where/when they need to head back to a position and recast/defend. Simply giving the Globes location in distance from the player would be well enough, so that they know how far they are from a globe that's about to fall. With it now being Health Based, players wouldn't have to babysit the defensive objective, and Frost is now a frame that isn't just wanted for his one ability or is automatically burdened with babysitting duty, but can freely move around the battlefield and assist in different situations. END EDIT Avalanche, where do I start? Giving it CC/Utility is key to his kit's full validity throughout content. One avenue to take would be giving it Knock Down on top of applying a Cold Proc to surviving enemies. It makes thematic sense, since enemies are supposedly hit with an avalanche. These two combined would help massively in giving Avalanche scale ability. Thus, all applied changes not only flesh out Frost's kit to be usable throughout content and not reliant on Snow Globe, but also synergizes the entire kit with not only each power, but also his theme. Though none of these are asks for damage, if DE would be willing to give those as well, it would go a long way on ensuring Frost is a very viable frame Offensively and Defensively, as his Kit has the potential for that variety, but it lacks the solid abilities to do so. Edited March 3, 2015 by AlphaHorseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiochy Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) . Edited March 3, 2015 by Kiochy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdshooter Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Couldnt agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Mofojokers Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I don't know if you've not seen the recent updates, or haven't played Frost in a while, but now, if you cast a Snow Globe while inside of another Snow Globe, the new Globe adds on the health of the previous Globe onto it, and replaces it. Also, the Slow Range of the Globe also now scales with Globe Size. Though the Bombards issue still does stand. For his other abilities, Freeze could be fixed by making it Duration based, rather than Duration and health based. It severely limits the scale ability of the power. Also making it (and Fireball) hit-scan would go leagues in making the only long range ability Frost has actually useful and hit its mark, rather than miss and not do it's job. To ensure its versatility throughout different builds, giving it a bit of a tighter radius, but also ensuring that all enemies within that radius are frozen for the Duration also helps to ensure its usefulness throughout content. Freeze now becomes an ability that is reliable CC, and also fits into his Defensive or Offensive builds quite well. Ice Wave needs scale ability without the augment. To help with this, (and to fit how it worked in the original WarFrame Trailer where Frost made his Debut), giving Ice Wave Knock Back would go far in making the ability useful for more than just a slow-button. Now Ice Wave can be used defensively to push enemies away from key defensive targets (i.e. Defense Pods, Consoles in Mobile Defense), and the ability becomes a CC tool to help shift the flow of enemies. Snow Globe...I would think that the only mechanical change is applying the Armor Value of the casting Frost to the Globes health, rather than it stacking onto the health, would be better. A defensive Frost build now has a Snow Globe with higher EHP, and with his baseline armor being 190 (hopefully this gets a boost, since he's supposed to be a tank frame), offensive Frosts have some breathing room to work with. Allowing allies with Punch Through weapons to shoot through the Globe also makes sense. But yes, aesthetic changes to make it a bit more usable would be great. EDIT: Making Snow Globe either Duration or Health would be a very key element to making sure that Snow Globe scales into content. But, since they've gone with Duration based before, and not liked it, I would say Health Based is how they're going to play it. If they do go with Health Based, a visual timer or indicator on the Globe to see it's health would be nice. It could be something where, when a player aims at a globe, they can see the HP left onto the globe. When they turn away, the HP numbers disappear. Also, giving the globe visual cues, such as cracking when being fired upon and losing HP, and also an audible shattering sound as it breaks would go a long way in giving players indicators on how a globe is doing. As a side note, giving the casting Frost a visual HP bar on his HUD would be good, as the casting Frost can now monitor the health of their active globe(s) to see where/when they need to head back to a position and recast/defend. Simply giving the Globes location in distance from the player would be well enough, so that they know how far they are from a globe that's about to fall. With it now being Health Based, players wouldn't have to babysit the defensive objective, and Frost is now a frame that isn't just wanted for his one ability or is automatically burdened with babysitting duty, but can freely move around the battlefield and assist in different situations. END EDIT Avalanche, where do I start? Giving it CC/Utility is key to his kit's full validity throughout content. One avenue to take would be giving it Knock Down on top of applying a Cold Proc to surviving enemies. It makes thematic sense, since enemies are supposedly hit with an avalanche. These two combined would help massively in giving Avalanche scale ability. Thus, all applied changes not only flesh out Frost's kit to be usable throughout content and not reliant on Snow Globe, but also synergizes the entire kit with not only each power, but also his theme. Though none of these are asks for damage, if DE would be willing to give those as well, it would go a long way on ensuring Frost is a very viable frame Offensively and Defensively, as his Kit has the potential for that variety, but it lacks the solid abilities to do so. +1 to this really good idea #Frostneedslove Edited March 3, 2015 by (PS4)Mofojokers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulyx Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I just thought about a nice Avalanche Mod for people that like CC better than dmg dealing with Frost. Blizzard -(Slows the animation of Avalanche to simulate a blizzard instead of an Avalanche) -Removes Dmg component and stun components from Avalanche -small Increase in range and add a small mvt reduction -mobs in the area get a large reduction in accuracy for the duration of the spell (maybe 4-6 secs modified by duration) This would be a nice complement to snow globe when you reach harder mobs that kill your globe instantly from range when they arrive in a wave without having to bring your loki pet along. The idea is to provide visual cover from ennemy but like-wise the ennemies would gain visual coverage reducing significantly the players vision inside the blizzard. The mod having the possibility of being overly powerfull the visibility reduction would counterbalance it. Frost would need to gauge if the situation is dire enough to warrant a Blizzard. Edited March 3, 2015 by Ulyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I just thought about a nice Avalanche Mod for people that like CC better than dmg dealing with Frost. Blizzard -(Slows the animation of Avalanche to simulate a blizzard instead of an Avalanche) -Removes Dmg component and stun components from Avalanche -small Increase in range and add a small mvt reduction -mobs in the area get a large reduction in accuracy for the duration of the spell (maybe 4-6 secs modified by duration) This would be a nice complement to snow globe when you reach harder mobs that kill your globe instantly from range when they arrive in a wave without having to bring your loki pet along. The idea is to provide visual cover from ennemy but like-wise the ennemies would gain visual coverage reducing significantly the players vision inside the blizzard. The mod having the possibility of being overly powerfull the visibility reduction would counterbalance it. Frost would need to gauge if the situation is dire enough to warrant a Blizzard. I would think that the limiting factor would already be prevalent when you remove the stun and damage components. Giving it visual distortion similar to Snow Globe would make it very difficult to use, as many players already do not like the visual distortions within Snow Globe, and having that be the case even outside the Snow Globe would make it worse. Maybe just having the Blizzard being a bit more transparent would be better, or having the visuals just be up to waist height. To ensure it's usability isn't overshadowed by its limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulyx Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I would think that the limiting factor would already be prevalent when you remove the stun and damage components. Giving it visual distortion similar to Snow Globe would make it very difficult to use, as many players already do not like the visual distortions within Snow Globe, and having that be the case even outside the Snow Globe would make it worse. Maybe just having the Blizzard being a bit more transparent would be better, or having the visuals just be up to waist height. To ensure it's usability isn't overshadowed by its limitations. I must admit i personally dislike Snow Globe distortion its dizzying, but i think it could be more chunky and slower reducing max vision or obscuring it. So if you already know where are the mobs you can still shoot them, you can hear them, you can see their gunshots ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I must admit i personally dislike Snow Globe distortion its dizzying, but i think it could be more chunky and slower reducing max vision or obscuring it. So if you already know where are the mobs you can still shoot them, you can hear them, you can see their gunshots ... Ah I see. It could be a very interesting augment mod. Some good CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bludragonjaw Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I do believe that frost is in need of a CC buff of some kind. I would also like to see like to see something done with snow globe in the way of removing the timer or the health. I do find it useful as it is at the moment its a little inconsistent in the time it stays up. Although I can't think of an easy way to make snow globe one or the other. A way that might work is to have a way that snow globe fades or changes appearance in some way as its health gets lower (like rhino's iron skin). This would help prevent unexpected premature snow globe disappearances that have ruined me a couple of time when trying to revive a team mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzureTerra Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Noone plays Frost as pFrost is so easy to get instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autongnosis Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) I'd say Frost need an overhaul of his 1st and ult, and a small change for his 2nd. Imho his first would be very nice as a mobility skill - duration- and strenght-based, Frost moves 12.5% faster and leaves a trail of ice 1m wide wherever he passes. Trail stays frozen for the ability's duration (cannot be recast while active, or in the air). Enemies stepping on the trail of ice move 25% slower. Cap for bonus speed to Frost at 25% and for slowdown on enemies at 50% (or maybe 33%). His second needs to be made a little more conical. If now it's a 20x3m strip, it needs to be tweaked to be a 20x2m 15° cone, as in 2m at its thinnes point and expanding from that. Area would be a little more, and i could see reducing the damage slightly to compensate. His globe imho should get a bit more health, get rid of the timer, and lose a fixed amount of health per second. So basically the same mechanic, only now health % can be displayed on the HUD and you won't get caught pants down by a Globe prematurely dying. His ult imho should be something entirely different, either low damage area CC, or buff/debuff. A couple of ideas: - Hailstorm: wide area centered around casting location, does a low DPS for the duration (50 dps maybe?), slows down all enemies in the area, each second has a decent chance of procing a knockdown or a cold proc and a small chance of procing a total freeze (like freeze does now). Numbers might look 50% proc chance, procs with this distribution: 45% cold, 45% knockdown, 10% freeze. Could both be a conventional 100 energy ult or a toggle on-off - Absolute Zero: aura around Frost, him and allies get frost coating on armour (buff armour) and enemies get cracks on theirs (debuff enemy armour), plus slowdown and maybe a cold damage buff for a fixed duration. Could both be a conventional 100 energy ult or a toggle on-off Edited March 4, 2015 by Autongnosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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