Nullifier's Bubble Isn't Affected By Damage, And Here's Proof

[DSkred]

The Nullifier shields are destroyed based on a series of calculations performed based your weapon's damage (enhanced/mitigated 

Even if the enemy isn't perfect, they're different, and a change of tactics is a welcome addition in principle to me. I am playing a variety of games right now that have 'that one enemy' that when appears sets me on a different course of action. Definitely open to more discussion and thoughts here. Thanks for your patience while this reply was put together (with details from the dev team). 

 

 

Here's the thing about those games: they give you the tools to set you on that course by default, and the game is built around the player having those tools always available.

 

For example, take any hack and slash/character action game (God of War, Marlow Briggs, Devil May Cry, etc). Usually there will be an enemy with a shield to block your attacks. Often when such an enemy comes into play, the game introduces a shield breaker combo for your weapons. You will always have a way to break the shield when each weapon has a shield breaker combo. If that isn't the case, you will still have that one weapon with you to break the shield to switch to when needed. The shield enemy is allowed in those games because there is never a moment where the player is unable to deal with them.

 

Warframe is not like this. We choose the weapons we want to use. Not all weapons are able to break the shield effectively, so we have to actively seek the weapons to do so. We need to have a weapon able to break the shield with us at all times even if we don't want to. What you think is making the game harder is in fact making it easier by making it very clear as to what weapons we should be using. You're throwing away skill and critical thinking for DPS and TTK. That's a bad road to go down, and one I would strongly suggest turning back from.

Edited January 27, 2015 by DSkred

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

 

Incoming explanation for how shield destruction works at this time:

 

The Nullifier shields are destroyed based on a series of calculations performed based your weapon's damage (enhanced/mitigated within a formula) per frame and the 'shrink rate' of the Nullifier Shields. 

 

Every frame a sample is taken of damage done to the Nullifier Shield.

 

Step 1) If the amount of damage is less than 100, it is set to 100. If the amount of damage is greater than 400, it is set to 400. 

Step 2) Divide that amount by 100 and multiply the default shrink rate (6% of max size for Corpus, 4% of max size for Corrupted) by that value.

 

If you're keen on the calculations and know a thing or two about math, click the spoiler for the real 'under-the-hood':

 

 

 

Example 1 - You hit it with a Braton and do 18 damage.  Step 1 indicates anything less than 100 is set to 100, so we perform that. Then, divide that value by 100 == 1.0. Then, we multiply the default shrink rate by that value. So for a Corpus Nullifier its 6%, which equates to:

0.06 * 1.0 = 0.06. We then shrink the shield by that amount.

 

Example 2 -  You hit it with something stronger, doing 150 damage. 150/100 = 1.5 * 0.06 = 0.09 == shrink the shield by 9% of the max size.

 

Example 3 - You hit the shield for 1000 damage. That's greater than 400, so I set it to 400. 400/100 = 4.0 * 0.06 = 0.24. So the shield is shrunk by 24%

 

And those values are based on the current size of the shield, not always max size. So the shield starts at a 1.5x scale, and if the first shot is multiplied by 4x to drop it by 24%, it will now decrease to 1.15x scale. The next shot will decrease it to a scale that is 24% less than 1.15, which is around 0.87.

 

So there are some diminishing returns there as the shield is damaged. 

 

Another thing to consider - the shield responds to damage per frame. So if you shoot it with a weapon like the Hek that hits it with multiple pellets in a single frame, it's the cumulative damage of those shots that is considered. So hitting it with 3 pellets at once, each doing 1000 damage really isn't any different than hitting it once for 1000 damage. Since in both cases, that damage is normalized down to the max multiplier of 4x.

 

However, there would be an impact if you are using a weaker weapon that does less than 400 per pellet! 

 

Now, clearly to me it's the mitigation within the formula that has all of our Arsenals at a loss on the 'best way' to deal with this enemy- but if you are a Corpus you say 'Yes, our Damage Reduction system technology is working quite well'. If you fire with your 4x Forma'd Dread and expect your usual damage output to be reflected, it won't.  This leads us to where we are today with our Nullifier feedback and experiences. 

 

Even if the enemy isn't perfect, they're different, and a change of tactics is a welcome addition in principle to me. I am playing a variety of games right now that have 'that one enemy' that when appears sets me on a different course of action. Definitely open to more discussion and thoughts here. Thanks for your patience while this reply was put together (with details from the dev team). 

 

Therefore it doesn't really have HP, it has a silly calculation that takes damage in account but with a cap so low that it impairs weapons that already are slow to start with.

The enemy isn't creating any change in tactics, it's simply making unpopular weapons even more unpopular. This makes it worthless to build any weapon to fight corrupted or corpus that aren't rapid fire weapons, because everything else will be cockblocked by the bubble, and at higher levels, even changing weapons to the secondary to burst the bubble can slow you down enough for the area to get filled with enemies, and by then you probably are completely screwed, because rapid fire secondary fallout faster in endless missions, and your main weapon probably isn't as fast killing multiple enemies on an area filled with them, firing at you (including the nullifier with the lanka), and if it's a 1 shot weapon, missing a few times because you are dodging all of them, might as well get you killed.

 

 

I seriously can't wait for people to start complaining about my loadout on the void because I'm not using rapid fire weapons as my main.

 

The nullifiers only create the fake sense of tactics. It's not much of a tactic to not use a slow firing weapon because an unranked boltor can empty the magazine and burst the bubble faster.

[Monolake]

Even if the enemy isn't perfect, they're different, and a change of tactics is a welcome addition in principle to me. I am playing a variety of games right now that have 'that one enemy' that when appears sets me on a different course of action. Definitely open to more discussion and thoughts here.

 

Different?  "just shoot it with high RoF weapons like Soma/Boltor P"  yeah very different!

 They ignore abilities and ignore weapon damage, its a huge middle finger to all the high level players who put effort into making weapons deal good damage and mastered the use of frames skills and want to play longer than 30 min in endless modes. The whole game is about improving your gear and this BS just ignores everything making only high RoF weapons viable. 

Granted there are still ways to cheese this crap, but its incredibly bad design to just nullify everything instead of trying to balance. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by Monolake

[Separius]

Just redesign the whole unit from scratch and THIS TIME put more thought into designing it to make it more interesting and less annoying.

 

It's nonsense that they make a whole warframe useless (Thinking about Valkyr, who's only usefulness in teamplay is not dying, and even that gets taken away... "Just use ranged, dude" is what someone may say, but Valkyr can't do ranged damage while in Hysteria. Her only option is going in, get hysteria removed, but then she gets 2shot by the corrupted nullifier). 

 

Idk who designed this sad excuse of an enemy, but they clearly don't play the game, because it's not fun to fight them. It's unfun. And when a design decision is unfun, then the devs failed at their jobs. Just ask anyone, the majority will say it's an unfun enemy. Sure some trolls and buttlickers will defend it to death, but they are not to be taken seriously, because the 1st one doesn't want to be taken seriously and the 2nd one is so biased that they'd defend DE's decisions even if they nerfed their favourite frame to oblivion, right infront of their very eyes, for no good reason.

 

Also, buff the Rakta Ballistica. It's not in line with the other syndicate weapons. Not hard to comprehend.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Separius

[taiiat]

The nullification shield is not what bothers me about nullifiers, its that Lanka of theirs.

i would concur. at the end of the day, i'm ultimately okay with the Nullifier Shield as it stands.

 

i do not approve of the Weapon Choice however. doubly so since Sniper Crewman already use it.

give them a different Weapon. something unique.

[Runtowin]

 

Incoming explanation for how shield destruction works at this time:

 

The Nullifier shields are destroyed based on a series of calculations performed based your weapon's damage (enhanced/mitigated within a formula) per frame and the 'shrink rate' of the Nullifier Shields. 

 

Every frame a sample is taken of damage done to the Nullifier Shield.

 

Step 1) If the amount of damage is less than 100, it is set to 100. If the amount of damage is greater than 400, it is set to 400. 

Step 2) Divide that amount by 100 and multiply the default shrink rate (6% of max size for Corpus, 4% of max size for Corrupted) by that value.

 

If you're keen on the calculations and know a thing or two about math, click the spoiler for the real 'under-the-hood':

 

 

 

Example 1 - You hit it with a Braton and do 18 damage.  Step 1 indicates anything less than 100 is set to 100, so we perform that. Then, divide that value by 100 == 1.0. Then, we multiply the default shrink rate by that value. So for a Corpus Nullifier its 6%, which equates to:

0.06 * 1.0 = 0.06. We then shrink the shield by that amount.

 

Example 2 -  You hit it with something stronger, doing 150 damage. 150/100 = 1.5 * 0.06 = 0.09 == shrink the shield by 9% of the max size.

 

Example 3 - You hit the shield for 1000 damage. That's greater than 400, so I set it to 400. 400/100 = 4.0 * 0.06 = 0.24. So the shield is shrunk by 24%

 

And those values are based on the current size of the shield, not always max size. So the shield starts at a 1.5x scale, and if the first shot is multiplied by 4x to drop it by 24%, it will now decrease to 1.15x scale. The next shot will decrease it to a scale that is 24% less than 1.15, which is around 0.87.

 

So there are some diminishing returns there as the shield is damaged. 

 

Another thing to consider - the shield responds to damage per frame. So if you shoot it with a weapon like the Hek that hits it with multiple pellets in a single frame, it's the cumulative damage of those shots that is considered. So hitting it with 3 pellets at once, each doing 1000 damage really isn't any different than hitting it once for 1000 damage. Since in both cases, that damage is normalized down to the max multiplier of 4x.

 

However, there would be an impact if you are using a weaker weapon that does less than 400 per pellet! 

 

Now, clearly to me it's the mitigation within the formula that has all of our Arsenals at a loss on the 'best way' to deal with this enemy- but if you are a Corpus you say 'Yes, our Damage Reduction system technology is working quite well'. If you fire with your 4x Forma'd Dread and expect your usual damage output to be reflected, it won't.  This leads us to where we are today with our Nullifier feedback and experiences. 

 

Even if the enemy isn't perfect, they're different, and a change of tactics is a welcome addition in principle to me. I am playing a variety of games right now that have 'that one enemy' that when appears sets me on a different course of action. Definitely open to more discussion and thoughts here. Thanks for your patience while this reply was put together (with details from the dev team). 

 

Remember that Crit damage does not affect the bubble. Meaning Soma Prime is saved by the minimum damage cap, while its actual dps is much higher and should be capped with maximum damage cap. Please make crit damage viable on the bubble.

[nekrojiji]

and you found out about this ....now?! 

[xAzazyel]

Just...make the high damage/low rate of fire weapons usefull again, i mean the tactic right now is something like this: "You know what, they will be a lot of nullifiers just pick a boltor prime/soma prime/s.gammacor or any weapon whit hight RoF", thats not a tactic for me thats just zerg-rushing for killing an enemy with no effort or tactics involved in the proccess.

 

I mean they can oneshot you from the other side of the map with a hit-scan weapon, they nullify ALL your powers and they are pretty common, like someone says in the post, usually shield enemies leave the player options for dealing with them, a shield breaker move, shooting/slashing their legs, dodging the shield and attacking from behind, etc..., just give us more options for dealing with them, instead of making a lot of the current weapons useless, i mean before the nullifiers i saw a lot of weapon variations in void, people use to take shotguns, the almighty paris prime or hell even a freaking mitter, but now its "Rifles or GTFO".....for me the nullifiers just kills all the tactics in void, they become an annoyance instead of a "good addition that adds variarity to the void"

[ArbitUHM]

 

Incoming explanation for how shield destruction works at this time:

 

<snip>

 

Even if the enemy isn't perfect, they're different, and a change of tactics is a welcome addition in principle to me. I am playing a variety of games right now that have 'that one enemy' that when appears sets me on a different course of action. Definitely open to more discussion and thoughts here. Thanks for your patience while this reply was put together (with details from the dev team). 

 

It's good to see the equation underpinning the shield mechanic - many thanks to you and the dev team for the explanation.

 

I generally find nullifiers an interesting enemy to fight in that they encourage teamwork and diversification in your squad's loadout.  The only thing that bugs me about him is how much damage the Lanka puts out.  At middle-close range, the shots become extremely difficult to dodge and there is no way to stop him from dishing out the pain besides some select defensive abilities like Volt's shield.  You can't disrupt him with procs (impact, fire, etc), can't shut him down with abilities, or really use any of the tools you normally can.  Any amount of hesitation/knockdown/whatever at this range gives him enough time to put two or three shots into you which usually results in death.  This can be pretty frustrating, especially if you get knocked down by Bombard rockets which are hard to see in the chaos of a 30+ minute survival or round 20+ defense.

 

I'd suggest

- decreasing his damage to ~300 or so per shot.  It seems like he's doing about 500 now.

- no headshots!  This guy does like 1,000+ damage per headshot.  It's something of a freak occurrence since it seems like he does not intentionally aim for the head, but when he hits, wow.

 

FWIW, I think people massively overstate what weapons are or aren't effective against nullifiers.  In particular, quite a few shotguns work just fine (Sobek, Boar Prime, and Bronco Prime all work pretty well for me), semi auto weapons like the Latron and its variants work fine, etc.

 

edit: I'd suggest moving your post and posts following it to a new thread... it's going to get annoying for people to fish around in the thread trying to find the post detailing the mechanics.  Plus, like, the thread title directly contradicts what you've told us

Edited January 27, 2015 by ArbitUHM

[Jaypalm]

 

-snip-

 

 

Since it's calculating per frame, does this mean that players with lower frame rates, like myself at a consistant 30 fps, will break the shield slower than those who play with 60 fps considering all other variables remain constant? Consider weapons like the gammacore which seem to proc hits at a much higher rate than frames occur (basing this assumption on the masses of numbers from shooting shields and objects).

 

Also, if you use projectile shotguns like Kohm or Drakgoon and shoot towards the top of the shield so that each projectile hits at a different time, under the description you gave higher frames would mean each projectile would be able to proc individually.

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

You know what would be cool? If a certain elemental combo had a chance to cause the shield to malfunction and explode dealing damage to the nullifier and stunning enemies within the bubble. This will allow some time for a player to gain the advantage and kill the nullifier out of range.

[LifeNine]

 

- snip -

Another thing to consider - the shield responds to damage per frame. So if you shoot it with a weapon like the Hek that hits it with multiple pellets in a single frame, it's the cumulative damage of those shots that is considered. So hitting it with 3 pellets at once, each doing 1000 damage really isn't any different than hitting it once for 1000 damage. Since in both cases, that damage is normalized down to the max multiplier of 4x.

 

However, there would be an impact if you are using a weaker weapon that does less than 400 per pellet! 

 

-snip

 

If the damage is calculated on each frame, then wouldn't really high fire rate weapons (can't think of any right now, but let's just say we have a hypothetical weapon with a super high fire rate after putting mods in) suffer if you have a low frame rate? For example, you shoot two shots in one frame, each doing 500 damage, which should decrease the shield by 6% twice. But since the damage is calculated per frame, the shield will receive 1000 damage and only shrink by 6% once.

 

This probably won't come into play I think, but hypothetically, this could happen right?

[MotherofHermes]

 

-snip-

 

This does not change game-play. 

 

It makes snipers still not as good, makes shotguns still not as good, and reinforces the high tier bullet hoses. Nullifiers have only slightly changed the fact that we can't bring the weapons we want to the ability spam fests. Bring a high damage high rate of fire gun or don't bring anything at all. 

 

I want to use something other than my soma. I want to go further into endless missions. I cannot currently do both with the way nullifies work. nullifiers continue to reinforce that high rate of fire machine gun primaries are the single weapon of choice for a given tenno (unless you are volt. then bring amprex). 

[Kihana]

 

Every frame a sample is taken of damage done to the Nullifier Shield.

 

 

Hi Rebecca.

 

Is the frame you refer to the hosts client side frame rate (unlikely), or the hosts server side tick rate (which should be locked).

 

I'd like to clarify that there is no difference between different hosts as to being able to take nullifier shields down faster or slower.

 

Nullifiers are just fine as they are btw. Maybe a tweak or two is needed, but no drastic changes to appease the masses. Units that draw focus are a classic curve ball.

[Satwo]

to be honest, i dont think we should have crewman running around with these things, specifically because of that lanka of theirs.

 

id much prefer if this tech was actually taken off them, and placed on railgun moas. you can see when they are gonna fire, their damage output is never a complaint even when they can hit like trucks, and theyve needed some love since their initiation. 

 

railgun moas are pushovers, so ditch the nullifier crewman and make railgun moas the new nullifiers. more so, give railgun moas an overhaul, make them more unique, perhaps a new model with a tripod walker sort of system to improve their stability instead of this goofy looking animation they currently have of nearly knocking themselves over with each fire.

[ClockworkSpectre]

Nullifiers have FAR to much going for them right now.  Their shield + Lanka is insane, they should have a pistol or something.  The rate that their sheilds can be brought down is to slow,  and their bubble is too big.  Also, I think they should not be able to run, just move at walking speed.  Like someone said already in this thread, something has to give, they have far to much going for them right now.  

 

Honestly I'd like to just see them removed, and maybe replaced with a less OP enemy unit.  But I doubt DE will do that. 

[SilverZs]

i would concur. at the end of the day, i'm ultimately okay with the Nullifier Shield as it stands.

 

i do not approve of the Weapon Choice however. doubly so since Sniper Crewman already use it.

give them a different Weapon. something unique.

Yes. Yes! Give them the Opticor! 

[nekrojiji]

I mean they can oneshot you from the other side of the map with a hit-scan weapon, 

 

They have Lanka ..... you can see the projectiles fly near you if you move a lot.

[AlphaHorseman]

 

Incoming explanation for how shield destruction works at this time:

 

The Nullifier shields are destroyed based on a series of calculations performed based your weapon's damage (enhanced/mitigated within a formula) per frame and the 'shrink rate' of the Nullifier Shields. 

 

Every frame a sample is taken of damage done to the Nullifier Shield.

 

Step 1) If the amount of damage is less than 100, it is set to 100. If the amount of damage is greater than 400, it is set to 400. 

Step 2) Divide that amount by 100 and multiply the default shrink rate (6% of max size for Corpus, 4% of max size for Corrupted) by that value.

 

If you're keen on the calculations and know a thing or two about math, click the spoiler for the real 'under-the-hood':

 

 

 

Example 1 - You hit it with a Braton and do 18 damage.  Step 1 indicates anything less than 100 is set to 100, so we perform that. Then, divide that value by 100 == 1.0. Then, we multiply the default shrink rate by that value. So for a Corpus Nullifier its 6%, which equates to:

0.06 * 1.0 = 0.06. We then shrink the shield by that amount.

 

Example 2 -  You hit it with something stronger, doing 150 damage. 150/100 = 1.5 * 0.06 = 0.09 == shrink the shield by 9% of the max size.

 

Example 3 - You hit the shield for 1000 damage. That's greater than 400, so I set it to 400. 400/100 = 4.0 * 0.06 = 0.24. So the shield is shrunk by 24%

 

And those values are based on the current size of the shield, not always max size. So the shield starts at a 1.5x scale, and if the first shot is multiplied by 4x to drop it by 24%, it will now decrease to 1.15x scale. The next shot will decrease it to a scale that is 24% less than 1.15, which is around 0.87.

 

So there are some diminishing returns there as the shield is damaged. 

 

Another thing to consider - the shield responds to damage per frame. So if you shoot it with a weapon like the Hek that hits it with multiple pellets in a single frame, it's the cumulative damage of those shots that is considered. So hitting it with 3 pellets at once, each doing 1000 damage really isn't any different than hitting it once for 1000 damage. Since in both cases, that damage is normalized down to the max multiplier of 4x.

 

However, there would be an impact if you are using a weaker weapon that does less than 400 per pellet! 

 

Now, clearly to me it's the mitigation within the formula that has all of our Arsenals at a loss on the 'best way' to deal with this enemy- but if you are a Corpus you say 'Yes, our Damage Reduction system technology is working quite well'. If you fire with your 4x Forma'd Dread and expect your usual damage output to be reflected, it won't.  This leads us to where we are today with our Nullifier feedback and experiences. 

 

Even if the enemy isn't perfect, they're different, and a change of tactics is a welcome addition in principle to me. I am playing a variety of games right now that have 'that one enemy' that when appears sets me on a different course of action. Definitely open to more discussion and thoughts here. Thanks for your patience while this reply was put together (with details from the dev team). 

 

Rebecca, I don't know how else to say this, but making this enemy a mini tactical alert or a mini Gate Crash isn't changing tactics, it's just annoying players who've put in the hard time and effort to level up and max out multiple times gear that isn't high RoF weaponry. I LOVE my Paris Prime, it's a beautiful weapon! I put formae and maxed it out to be a Crit God! You guys made the game a sense of progression through maxing out and upgrading our gear to the highest levels of damage and effectiveness.

 

And now, the nullifiers pretty much nullify all that progress! Not in a good way, because not only are my powers useless on these enemies, but my Paris Prime is too! Their shields are supposed to block powers! Even if they blocked bullets, they aren't even factoring in how much damage we do, you chop off that damage at 400. So every strum of my bow doesn't do the damage it usually does, it just hits for 400. So every shot I take, which is extremely slower than a High RoF weapon like the Boltor Prime is pretty much me burst firing, nay, clicking for one bolt of my Boltor Prime to damage the shield, ON MY BOW! That means that this enemy forces us to bring those weapons along, rather than diversify our choice of what gear to bring.

 

The Nullifiers are a slap in the face to those who actually do like Bows and Shotguns. Who actually don't use the annoyingly boring Rhino Prime and Boltor Prime/Soma Prime combo, and actually fight with guns that have interesting mechanics. Now, all that modding and formae are useless to me, because this enemy is a pseudo difficulty unit through which all of that is useless. You're making people choose those weapons over the interesting and fun ones they built and leveled and spent their time maxing out.

 

This isn't in any way helping us diversify our tactics, it's actually shoehorning us into using tactics we all already use, and some of us actually detest because we are forced to bring weapons which we do not one simply to deal with one annoying threat that spawns a bit too often to be considered a higher level unit.

Edited January 27, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[Phoenix86]

Ok, i want a frame with the Nullifier skill.

 

We gotta copy that from the Corpus.

[007-Creed]

 

Example 3 - You hit the shield for 1000 damage. That's greater than 400, so I set it to 400. 400/100 = 4.0 * 0.06 = 0.24. So the shield is shrunk by 24%

 

And those values are based on the current size of the shield, not always max size. So the shield starts at a 1.5x scale, and if the first shot is multiplied by 4x to drop it by 24%, it will now decrease to 1.15x scale. The next shot will decrease it to a scale that is 24% less than 1.15, which is around 0.87.

 

So there are some diminishing returns there as the shield is damaged. 

 

Another thing to consider - the shield responds to damage per frame. So if you shoot it with a weapon like the Hek that hits it with multiple pellets in a single frame, it's the cumulative damage of those shots that is considered. So hitting it with 3 pellets at once, each doing 1000 damage really isn't any different than hitting it once for 1000 damage. Since in both cases, that damage is normalized down to the max multiplier of 4x.

 

However, there would be an impact if you are using a weaker weapon that does less than 400 per pellet!

 

 

Nullifers are a great enemy that adds the so long needed difficulty increase, one of the best and most dangerous to the tenno. Although the bubble isnt hard to take down (if we had nothing else to be focused on) it punishes too much marksman gameplay.

 

While u can run and spray bullets with an automatic fire weapon and shrink bubble easy even avoiding most damage, when using weapons like lanka, OPticor, vectis, sybaris, lex, etc etc, is too much punishing. Due to the extremely high damage per bullet/burst in trade of speed, these weapons take too much time to kill the bouble, not adding reload time since magazines arent supposed to be big.

 

On high lvl enemies, the swarm of nullifers is so much that ruins gameplay, because is not only nullifers, but bombards and heavies (void)/ supra bros and elite crewman (corpus) around or inside dealing high amout of damage. Marksman weapons are so slow that is death sentence fighting them with it, frames cant be exposed to all that damage for so long, either we kill fast or we die, thats a reason why after some time we better of sticking with secondaries. These weapons are so underused that is one more reason to not pick them up.

 

We have secondaries we can switch or teammates (if not soloing) to help but as i see here on paper and on personal gameplay experience the punishment is too big regarding spraying weapons and charged/heavy single fire weapons upon the amount of time to kill nullifer bubble. While Dual Cestras (and family) take it down no more than 1/1,5 seconds of bullet spray, OPticor (and friends) take considerably much more time, its like a twisted version of tortoise and the hare story, cestras can take a nap and have coffee break while OPticor still trying... and trying...and gives up when another nullifer is spotted, aint that OP afterall :PP

 

DE pls take into consideration these power creep tortoise weapons

Edited January 27, 2015 by Creeda

[StahlEngel]

What is actually needed for bows and sniper weapons is a shield penetrate ability as it would actually lore wise make sense why they are still used , look at modern tank weapons for example M829 120mm, APFSDS-T this is a solid projectile that is designed to penetrate a tank, it is nothing more then a crossbow bolt, a Barret 82a1 is a sniper rifle that can put a hole clean through an APC , weapons like bows and sniper rifle are special purpose weapons and should have abilities than the regular weapons don't, and shield penetration would help them have a reason to be used again and help balance out the Nullifier.

[ImNotJellyAtAll]

nullifiers are okay in my book (at least the concept) because challenging (ish) enemies who shake up gameplay are a good thing

 

what isn't a good thing is being limited in your weapon choices to fight them. being limited to fully auto weapons in "difficult" missions to deal with one enemy is stupid.

[PuffinLauncher]

I still wouldn't mind if the damage cap per frame was bigger (or if it wasn't there at all, I feel the speed limit of the bubble's size decrease is enough).

Either that, or give weapons like bows some kind of a buff against nullifiers. It takes forever to down their bubble, and when three of those guys gang up on you it's a nightmare (unless you bring a sidearm specifically for that case).

 

P.S. What would also be neat is if Nulls disrupted each others bubble upon entering it, and maybe adjust the AI so they avoid getting in range of their kin. It's really annoying when Nullifier's bubbles stack.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Arventus

[-InV-igo95862]

Nullifier brings no new tactic. It is still "fill it with bullets." Nobody will rush in side of bubble to get one shotted by Lanka.