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Coptering Must Either Go Or Be Toned Down


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I really hate coptering on laggy levels, because if you fly across the map, then hit a wall, you get stuck there until the 'momentum timer' wears down, which is instant death on high-level defense. 

 

I only use Dark Dagger as my melee and usually play fast frames (Loki and Zephyr). I also have my 'acceptable ping' settings up pretty high (350ms) so I end up in a decent amount of laggy games. 

 

I have no clue what you're talking about when you say you get stuck. Unless you're purposely coptering into walls at short distances.

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Yeah but wanting to remove this one actually makes you hate fun. Either give us a more fitting replacement to coptering (TENNO JETPACKS!1!) or just keep it. I'm a fairly new player (since october 2014th), yet, i quickly mastered coptering and other manouvers in the tutorial itself and honestly, the amount of mobility it gave me kept me coming back to this game, i really like being fast and deadly in videogames :P

Coptering actually ruins my fun. That means YOU hate fun.

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Coptering, a thing that made me remember this game when I was starting my journey. Removing it would mean removing a feature that makes Warframe feel so special. Along with its great free to play model and great movement, Warframe has gotten me to invest over thousand hours and just about 200€ on this.

 

So that's a no from me.

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Coptering helps to alleviate the slow speeds of most warframes. Replacing it with something else won't solve the problem, it will stay the same, and knowing DE, if they did replace coptering, it would be a new system that requires more grind. 

 

I say, if you can't master it, or if you don't like other people using it, then don't complain. It's the same as the other nerf-herders complain about the gear/colours/playstyle of other players. Don't like it? Don't play it. Don't play with people that do. 

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While I don't hate coptering, I don't care for it much. I like the agility and simplicity allowed through just running.

 

I'd be fine if coptering were removed from the game. Then maybe mods like Rush, Marathon, and Quick Rest would actually get used by more players. Let's throw in a Primed Rush while we're at it.

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I think they need to remove coptering and other moves that launch you like a cannonball (or tone them down a lot) and replace them with some other advanced moves with proper animation. I don't see Parkour 2.0 (which I always thought of as improved wallrun, slide, jump, etc animations and techniques) happening if they are going to keep clumsy coptering and wallflinging. There are tons of ways to make movement fun in a game, without making it look like a glitch/exploit. They already removed infinite wallrun which was a right thing to do, despite it making some places harder to get for some frames, so the next thing is to remove/tone down coptering and replacing it with some proper agility moves.

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I say, if you can't master it, or if you don't like other people using it, then don't complain. It's the same as the other nerf-herders complain about the gear/colours/playstyle of other players. Don't like it? Don't play it. Don't play with people that do. 

 

Matchmaking doesn't exactly care if one copters or not. If you just enter missions by normal random matchmaking, I think you will find that about half the players will copter often. I, personally, have noticed that the proportion is higher on grind heavy missions (especially void). 

 

My most fun matches are with people who don't copter because in these matches there is always plenty to go around. I can't begin to put into words how much of a fun killer it is to enter a mission and find that your teammates can literally fly and leave you in the dust. Ruins a good experience in my opinion. 

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Coptering is one of those things that makes WF gameplay feel unique

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So how is Coptering useless? 

 

While I don't hate coptering, I don't care for it much. I like the agility and simplicity allowed through just running.

 

I'd be fine if coptering were removed from the game. Then maybe mods like Rush, Marathon, and Quick Rest would actually get used by more players. Let's throw in a Primed Rush while we're at it.

I always throw in Rush on my Warframe because I hate moving slowly in any situation. Quick Rest and Marathon though are worthless mods that are not useful in any kind of way. They need to be combined if anything. Even then I wouldn't use it.

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Matchmaking doesn't exactly care if one copters or not. If you just enter missions by normal random matchmaking, I think you will find that about half the players will copter often. I, personally, have noticed that the proportion is higher on grind heavy missions (especially void). 

 

My most fun matches are with people who don't copter because in these matches there is always plenty to go around. I can't begin to put into words how much of a fun killer it is to enter a mission and find that your teammates can literally fly and leave you in the dust. Ruins a good experience in my opinion. 

Then don't play in public. Befriend/join a clan of like minded individuals who don't like it. I enjoy coptering immensly, I also never play public matches, because I don't like the way others play, but I'm not gonna come on the forums and complain about their playstyle and suggest we remove it. 

 

There are alot of people who play this game in many different ways. If all it takes to keep the majority happy without creating strife, or removing an aspect of the game many enjoy is to switch matchmaking from public to friends only, then the problem is solved.

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Why not? Might as well turn this game into another generic shooter. And while you're at it why don't you also remove front flips and aerial melees and wall climbing and everything else that real people not wearing special armor can't do.

Hate to break it to you, Chief, but Warframe, with or without the silly coptering mechanic, IS a generic shooter,.  I've got over 1000 hours in this game, and I gotta say, even WITH coptering, it's not all that.

 

In fact, if you have to claim that 'coptering' is that makes Warframe unique, maybe we should all take a good hard look at what we're really playing.  Is Coptering really what makes us 'Space Ninjas'?  Really?  ONE single mechanic that started out as a glitch is what we're desperately grabbing onto and screaming "SEE?  IT'S UNIQUE!"

 

No one is seeing the issue here?

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Hate to break it to you, Chief, but Warframe, with or without the silly coptering mechanic, IS a generic shooter,.  I've got over 1000 hours in this game, and I gotta say, even WITH coptering, it's not all that.

 

In fact, if you have to claim that 'coptering' is that makes Warframe unique, maybe we should all take a good hard look at what we're really playing.  Is Coptering really what makes us 'Space Ninjas'?  Really?  ONE single mechanic that started out as a glitch is what we're desperately grabbing onto and screaming "SEE?  IT'S UNIQUE!"

 

No one is seeing the issue here?

Pretty much this.

 

 

The best thing about a shooter should be the shooting, and in Warframe clearly that's not the case. There's nothing that Warframe excels at. It's an okay shooter, it's an semi-okay hack-and-slash game, it's a mediocre-at-best RPG, and it's a mediocre-at-best parkour simulator. Uniqueness is all that it has going for it (aesthetic is pretty much the only positively unique thing it has.)

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Stop trying to ruin Warframe.

 

Stop being so selfish. Consider for a moment that there are people entitled to their own opinions, other than yourself, and that they do not like this glitch-turned-mechanic that's been wedged into the game in place of a proper movement system...

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Stop trying to ruin Warframe.

 

but coptering ruins Warframe for me, so maybe you should stop trying to ruin Warframe /endsarcasm

 

Everyone has a different perspective of fun, coptering for me is anti-fun as it pretty much replaces parkour, which is something I'd like to see work in this game, but there's no point in DE revamping parkour at the moment because no one's going to use it because everyone's busy coptering going "lolwat I cant hear u going 2 fast 4 u" or "ermahgerd hurry up nub ur 2 slo!" or even "lrn 2 copter nub"

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Stop being so selfish. Consider for a moment that there are people entitled to their own opinions, other than yourself, and that they do not like this glitch-turned-mechanic that's been wedged into the game in place of a proper movement system...

 

Surprise surprise!  Another thread where a group of people who don't like a feature in Warframe want it removed entirely.  

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Surprise surprise!  Another thread where a group of people who don't like a feature in Warframe want it removed entirely.  

 

it's a glitch not a feature, there is a difference.

 

Yes I want coptering removed BUT I want it replaced with something that actually works as intended (Parkour 2.0 anyone?)

 

coptering shouldn't be the defining "feature" of the game, and if it is then something is horribly wrong with it and needs to be fixed

Edited by Ninjaboy00
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Everyone has a different perspective of fun, coptering for me is anti-fun as it pretty much replaces parkour, which is something I'd like to see work in this game, but there's no point in DE revamping parkour at the moment because no one's going to use it because everyone's busy coptering going "lolwat I cant hear u going 2 fast 4 u" or "ermahgerd hurry up nub ur 2 slo!" or even "lrn 2 copter nub"

So true. That's exactly how I think about it as well. Parkour 2.0 wouldn't be complete without removing coptering first.

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Honestly, coptering is a core mechanic of the game, It is like rocket/sticky jumping in TF2. Changing it would change the game for many people, myself included. No one is debating that sometimes the bursts of speed can be ridiculous and seem to happen without rhyme or reason, but a fix by removing would be worse than original problem. Warframe is a game of speed and mobility, both of which are aided by coptering. I am not saying that its removal would irreversibly ruin the game, but its removal would certainly change a few things. I don't really have an issue with coptering because it is very useful when it works as I expect it to, and it is funny when it doesn't. 

At the most, I don't think that the coptering capability of melee weapons should be reduced across the board, but rather a velocity cap be instituted. 

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Honestly, coptering is a core mechanic of the game, It is like rocket/sticky jumping in TF2. Changing it would change the game for many people, myself included. No one is debating that sometimes the bursts of speed can be ridiculous and seem to happen without rhyme or reason, but a fix by removing would be worse than original problem. Warframe is a game of speed and mobility, both of which are aided by coptering. I am not saying that its removal would irreversibly ruin the game, but its removal would certainly change a few things. I don't really have an issue with coptering because it is very useful when it works as I expect it to, and it is funny when it doesn't. 

At the most, I don't think that the coptering capability of melee weapons should be reduced across the board, but rather a velocity cap be instituted. 

 

Finally, a sensible person with a decent argument beyond 'lawlz, copter 4ever'. Still, I disagree that it is a 'core mechanic'. It is a glitch that got turned into a feature, which is not to say that it doesn't have its moments. I'd just feel better if it there were more options and Coptering was equalized to stand shoulder to shoulder with them. Right now, we've got slide-jumps, aerial melee and wall-launches, none of which feel very parkour or smooth to me.  also, what parkour and acrobatics there are often fall flat on their faces. I've auto-rolled off platforms, failed to properly wallrun because of limiting sticky surfaces...the list of issues is pretty long. Also, there are quite a few neglected mechanics. How often do you see people backflipping? Almost never in my experience.

Edited by Vadrigos
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Sadly DE have removed other "movement glitches" yet keep coptering, the most well known was the infinite wall run.  DE removed it as a glitch but it made the game much more fun for those frames that cant teleport, fly. or wormhole their way around to the high secret areas and enhanced parkore use (a feature we can agree is lacking).

 

Unfortunatly coptering breaks the need to use parkore as much. Most of those levels designed for you to wall run around the wall get bypassed by just coptering it instead.

It is also used to breaks the speed limitations, where increasing sprint could achieve the same result speed result.

 

The main issue for players is that it still looks like a glitch, not a feature.  Also I wonder why enemies dont just start weilding pikes (or erecting spike walls) and let the tenno skewer themselves on them with coptering.

 

To those that say rockets would look silly on a frame all I can say is Nova Prime.  Her venting flaps would make for great jet engines to facilitate it.  Though it would be nice if they featured it into frame themes.  These wouldnt do damage as such (other than what coptering would do now) and are more for the visual purpose.

 

Some Examples per frame:

Ash does a short teleport

Banshee has a jet 'pluse' behind her (like Sonic Boom)

Ember breifly catchs fire

Excalibur does a short slashdash

Frost skis on an ice ramp

Hydroid shoots off like a barage shot

Limbo does a short phase blink

Loki does a short teleport (or acrobatic lunge)

Mag draws herself forward with magnetic force

Mesa shoots a shotgun like blast behind her forcing her forward

Mirage shoots forward in a beam of light

Nekros binds shadows about hiomself an teleports a short distance

Nova leaps forward through a small wormhole

Nyx darts forward like like a psychic bolt

Oberon dars forward like a swirling smite bolt

Rhino does a charge forward

Saryn moves forward as a gaseous cloud

Trinity leaps forward in a pulse of energy, or along a link beam

Valkyr shoots forward in her balled up spin

Vauban propells himself forward with a bounce effect

Volt shoots forward as/in a bolt of ligtning (or covered in it)

Zephyr flys forward like Tail Wind

Sure some would be effects like their powers but wouldnt have the associated damage/effects with them, and would look vastly more warframe to the game than even just adding jet engines to a frame.  The balance (for those that are only movement and for the self) would be that instead of using energy you need the key combos.  Though it could even use a small amount of energy too (by small i mean around 10 before efficency).

Edited by Loswaith
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Finally, a sensible person with a decent argument beyond 'lawlz, copter 4ever'. Still, I disagree that it is a 'core mechanic'. It is a glitch that got turned into a feature, which is not to say that it doesn't have its moments. I'd just feel better if it there were more options and Coptering was equalized to stand shoulder to shoulder with them. Right now, we've got slide-jumps, aerial melee and wall-launches, none of which feel very parkour or smooth to me.  also, what parkour and acrobatics there are often fall flat on their faces. I've auto-rolled off platforms, failed to properly wallrun because of limiting sticky surfaces...the list of issues is pretty long. Also, there are quite a few neglected mechanics. How often do you see people backflipping? Almost never in my experience.

People don't know about the accuracy malus enemies get when you backflip.

 

Coptering is a direct result of melee weapon attack speed + attack animation speed + game's already faulty physics. So once that bugged relationship is patched (just the physics part will do it), coptering will cease to be a thing. 

 

 

Honestly, coptering is a core mechanic of the game, It is like rocket/sticky jumping in TF2.  

Nope. Coptering is like K-Style from GunZ: The Duel. Neither of them were intentionally programmed nor were they balanced or given proper animations.  Explosion jumping in TF2 was designed from the ground up, balanced stat wise, and actors were given proper animations to react to explosions beneath them. 

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To proceed what I'm about to drone on about, I don't copter too often but I do enjoy how it works and know how to control it.  Beyond that I also utilize "wall-flinging" and know how to control it as well, and I also utilize air melees to further influence my mobility throughout the game's tiles.

 

Anyways I'm not outright against the removal of coptering.  However it's very true that the existence of it as a mechanic (not a bug anymore) are pretty ingrained into the game as it stands.  Of course the addition of directional air melee has subverted coptering to a modest degree as it too provides the player with a sudden burst of mobility.  However directional melee attacks look notably less silly and also offer additional movement options as they can be done in many more directions.

 

There is one key thing to note however;  A lot of players clearly enjoy having very high burst mobility.  It's safe to say that, at this stage in the game's development, removing all of these without providing an apt replacement would be a very bad move.  It would legitimately alter the core pacing of Warframe at its very core.  While coptering's specific existence is debatable, I'd say it's almost not debatable that Warframe is more designed around being on the swifter side compared to what would be "average" for shooting games.

 

At the moment we have next to no real air control outside of initiating a slide and subsequent slide attack while airborne or by utilizing directional melee.  Of course both of these things clearly subvert the existence of the game's normal parkour systems to a notable degree.  One doesn't gain much by doing a standard wallrun but there are clear advantages to using coptering and air melee.  Despite being someone who likes and uses both, even I can see the issues they present when looking at furthering the development of a parkour system.

 

So I'll end all this in a neat little package.  If, when parkour 2.0 becomes a thing, we have a wealth of new mobility options which also allow for some forms of burst mobility then by all means remove coptering.  However I'd very much hate to see coptering's removal solely because some folks "don't like it".  Not everyone will like everything in any given game, that's just all there is to it.

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