Shehriazad Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Often enough discussions pop up about the Warframes' true appearances, their genders and what they are, in general. But genders especially bother me...and that they are seen as a thing. We know that Tenno left the Void as a twisted being and that the frames were "forged around them". I do not think that any of the Tenno still actually have a so called gender. As far as we know...we don't copulate, we don't multiply on a biological level...and our numbers are (in theory) finite. We are thawed and used again like tools. But fact is that a human mind can only cope with so much...and that we were once human is not even up for discussion. Hayden Tenno is the first Tenno...that much is clear.But would you be able to cope with the fact that you no longer are a human, but a tool for war? Would you be able to accept the fact that you no longer have a body? Something that once enabled you to identify yourself as a woman, man or any other form of human...it's all gone now. So what would be the best?Give those former humans a form that they can recognize.It's questionable if we even still have a physical form per se. So I think that in the end... Warframes are our "residual self image". They help the Tenno cope with their horrible situation of no longer being the human being they once were. This even explains why some frames are without a clear gender...the Tenno inhabiting them identify as neutrum/androgynous being....and thus they were forged as such.What are your thoughts on this, Tenno? Edited January 11, 2015 by Shehriazad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Personally, I like to think the Tenno have no need for a gender identity of sorts. They are made for one thing, to kill. Any ideas about gender identity is something that to them, is not worth thinking about. Also, I like to think that after being twisted by the Void, their mentality was completely ruined as well. They could possibly have no idea what a female/male/other is, and the concept to them is a strange one at that. Sure the frames have physical forms which are either male or female, but the Tenno are not the frames. To them, the way the frame looks means nothing to them if it's a male or female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkmahdi24 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 WE MUST HAVE A TRANSGENDER FRAME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 WE MUST HAVE A TRANSGENDER FRAME lol why? And maybe we already have one and just don't know it? Any frame could be transgender. What an odd request... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 lol why? And maybe we already have one and just don't know it? Any frame could be transgender. What an odd request... I was thinking about it just now... How can we show a transgender frame? It's impossible as frames don't have a gender showing in them, just the sex of the frame (male or female). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheePrime Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 And maybe we already have one and just don't know it? The ultimate mystery... But yeah, if you watched Devstream 44 they DID mention they MIGHT add lore about the Tenno in the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkmahdi24 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The Move set for the Transgender frame The Penetrator Pulls out a glowing stick (changes color depending on energy) and you have 6 seconds (no duration mod added) and every enemy you run past in that time will be stabbed. this is the first ability, coming up with ideas for the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I was thinking about it just now... How can we show a transgender frame? It's impossible as frames don't have a gender showing in them, just the sex of the frame (male or female). Transgender is something that primarely exists in one's mind. A mental condition. The other thing would be a transvestite. And that isn't always recognizeable as such. Unless drag queen. I can't imagine someone could honestly demand a drag queen warframe. The only thing I could imagine is an asexual warframe. But we already have this... It's called Zephyr. (imo) Besides, some will say that all warframes are asexual. It's really all just speculation. Which is fun imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The ultimate mystery... But yeah, if you watched Devstream 44 they DID mention they MIGHT add lore about the Tenno in the frame. Yes yes... I've seen it. And I'm really excited for the lore. (though personally I really care more about Grineer and Corpus than about ourselves as Tenno... lore-wise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LK-GriM Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 WE MUST HAVE A TRANSGENDER FRAME I wish we had a down vote already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I wish we had a down vote already. We used to have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LK-GriM Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 We used to have that. It is and always has been necessary. What is DE afraid of, peoples feelings getting hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 We used to have that. I think it's good it was removed. Constructive critisism is better than a downvote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) It is and always has been necessary. What is DE afraid of, peoples feelings getting hurt? Welll... you can always tell people what's wrong about their ideas / opinions instead of simply downvoting. _____ Woah... this derailed quickly. Edited January 11, 2015 by WEREsandrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 It is and always has been necessary. What is DE afraid of, peoples feelings getting hurt? They removed it because it simply didn't provide any form of constructive criticism to a post. Just downvote, and immediately the poster gets discouraged of posting anything else. Constructive feedback on an idea is very important, downvoting them just doesn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Personaly I think the tenno is one way descendant of the mankind. Those armors are just what we wear and the tenno's have their real genders but the design decisions locked into the tenno separated and gender locked frames. Personaly I don't like this design decision because rather lazy and still they not added any lore to them if they add lore to them then we can say those frames /tennos/ are persons with their own storyline. I would like to see any form of gender differentation and not gender locked frames simply just similar looks frames for an example now the nyx who was the first female in an excalibur armor. Every frame could be given their pairs with same/similar abilities but with different names for example the ember-blaze/pyro-pyra names which just explain the variant of the armor what you wear but not the tenno itself. The design restrictions and that fact they haven't enough time to make this design decision viable went to the current state where we mysticize their genders and origins instead of research they are also humans but evolved a lot. I like personalize myself with the male frames because I am also male and harder to personalize myself as girl because I am not a girl. I would like to use a male variant of the ember armor which can be called everything you can imagine but you have then the option to personalize yourself with that armor. At moment every armor/frame just an armor but the tenno inside is you. Currently I can just imagine them as my mercenaries which contain male and female tenno's "armors". Persons who wear that armor design and familiar with their abilities. I still hope they won't restrict us in the future with a gender lock because this is just lazyness. Easier design an already made frame into the different gender than making a new. Otherwise if you use an astronaut armor then no matter what gender you are you looks the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakrana Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 -snip- The issue of gender and sexual identity is, so far as we're able to note, mostly a Human specific interest. Yes, studies show that there are animals in nature that express behaviours such as homosexuality or asexuality, but that's just 'how it is' for the natural world. Humans have this tendency to get very...judgemental about how a person identifies or expresses their gender or sexual identity. There wouldn't be an LGBT+ movement if we were accepting, after all. Hell, there wouldn't even be a Women's Rights movement if humans weren't petty creatures that define along Gender and Sexual identities. For starters, when we're born the first assumption made about us is that we're cisgender; girls are girls, boys are boys and that's it. Growing up or families assume Heterosexuality because that's what people expect. It's only when a person doesn't have these stereotypes to lean on that they end up thinking about it a lot more than the average person. For example, people look at you funny when you flat out don't understand what makes a girl 'Hot'. Then they start insulting you or making assumptions about your inclinations purely on this single caveat. Speaking from experience on that front. : / After all, I'm sure plenty of people are sick and tired of those individuals who make out like gender or sexual identity for anything other than Heterosexuality is a choice. It's an amusing thing to throw back at people though. It's like watching a ship deflate in slow motion~ Humans put so much emphasis on the sexual dimension, at the end of the day, it's hard *ahem* for people to conceive of something different. In the natural world, some species reproduce a grand total of once a year and are only sexually viable during that time period. Humans? Pretty much 24/7 after puberty has kicked in. Which, in the context of Warframe, becomes a medium for Anthropocentric devices. The Warframes are something made by the Orokin, an over all Human empire structure. Considering how much the Orokin Towers reek of an insane hubris, and human arrogance is a famous thing, it comes as no surprise to me that they designated the Warframes with sexes to more suit their aesthetic preferences and what superiority complex they possessed. Granted, the Warframes can be a tool for the Tenno to 'identify' but, how much of it is just an evolution of the Human situation I put up above? That we can't conceive of things without thinking of them in Gender or Sexual terminology. That they're 'like us' in essence, and the form reinforces that. If Tenno really have gone beyond a conventional hominid body, and Warframes are merely vessels they manipulate, then is it not so much a question of 'What do they identify as?' but 'Is Gender being forced upon them?'. I mean, I personally don't understand why it's hard for people to just use a different sexed frame to their own identified sex. It doesn't make you more or less of a man/woman to use the other. But then, I guess that's just it; Games that let you choose to play a Male or Female character, no judgement, still typically have people playing the same gender/sex as themselves. Or not, for the people into the whole 'If going to stare at an arse...' modicum. It may just simply be that some people perceive such great rifts between the sexes or genders that it makes them uncomfortable just to use the shape for a time. Connotations and all that sort of thing. Humans, so ingrained are they with their identifications that it's...inhuman, almost, to consider things from the other point of view. Or to oscillate between the as Genderfluidity seems to function (If I'm saying something profoundly offensive, earnest apologies and admittance of ignorance). In the end, it's not clear what the Tenno stance on Gender and Sexual identity may be. However, the more or less they have in common with the human paradigm, the more or less sympathetic/alien they may seem to us. After all, human bonding stereotypes place inordinate emphasis on sex; "Bob doesn't want sex with me, so Bob doesn't care about me! *angsting*" as an exaggeration. Least, I hope that's an exaggeration.... The bloody 'making love' euphemism itself exemplifies this perception, even though it is entirely possible and indeed quite common for people to be only in it for the sex itself. It could very well be that, if Tenno really are beyond physical contact in the ways humans experience it, the very notion of Gender or Sexuality is either a none issue or...disturbing. It could be a Tenno simply adopts a gender identity from time to time to see if it broadens their experience of life much as someone may put on a pair of coloured glasses and see what changes. Sorry for rambling on. In summary: Gender and Sexual identity are primarily concerns with the average human paradigm. In the case of the Tenno, with the Warframes being created by the Orokin, it seems more likely that the Orokin enforced anthropomorphism in the Warframe design so that the Tenno over all were more like them. Questions of Gender and Sexuality become more about appealing to the Orokin paradigm than a Tenno one. In essence, Gender and Sexuality may be forced upon the Tenno, rather than actually being relevant to their situation, and is only there because, like most players, the typical Orokin would not be able to 'relate' to something so fundamentally alien as a being without Gender or Sexual denotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I will forever contest the notion that "Hayden Tenno was the first Tenno" as meaning "Hayden Tenno was the first of our Tenno" - rather, it's more of a "spiritual successor" sort of thing (although the games themselves ARE VERY MUCH in the same continuity), likely as the inspiration for the Tenno of today. If you've ever played the Warcraft games, liken this link to the Death Knights in that game: The First of the Death Knights was Terron Gorefiend (orc warlock resurrected by necromany), but his type of Death Knight was very different from the types of Death Knights that came later and were forged under different circumstances: your Scourge Death Knights (Arthas, Rivendare, Mograine, ect.). Or is that too nerdy a comparison? --- On topic, I have no doubt we're human. However I take issue with the idea that we're energy beings due to evidence presented in The Profit PS4 Trailer and the Mutalist Alad V Questline that that suggests the Warframes are hollow - and thus home to a biological and physical entity inside. That somewhat different argument aside, I personally think the Tenno see the Warframes and their ability to switch between them seamlessly (via Void Compression tech, the same kind that our Lisets use and probably is at work on Baro Ki'Teer's hat) as nothing of a big deal. I liken it to a video gamer's ability to go from (to use League of Legends as an example) playing Annie one moment, to Braum the next, to Ahri in the next match - they just don't think about it and don't see it as a reflection of themselves. One of the inspiration Steve cited for Warframe was Bio Booster Guyver, and after looking briefly into how the VERY Warframe-like armor works in that series I see some major connections. That said, there's DEFINITELY some kind of deep connection we have with our Warframes (hence at least some of the issue we take with Alad V's tinkering and why Lotus asks us to "put [the Mesa Warframe being puppeted by Infestation] out of its misery") but I see that on being more of the level of Warframes as what they represent and allow us to do, rather than the physicality or sexuality of them. Edited January 13, 2015 by Morec0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ergo-Proxy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Okay sorry to break it to you guys but as of right now as far as I know, tenno there is no official explanation stating that Tenno are sexless. Every description describes the Tenno as having a sex. Thus going with this logic Tenno have physical bodies made of FLESH. "Let go the frailties of the flesh..." as said by that infested boss. So ONLY reason we can switch from 1 frame to another is so that we can try them all rather than having 1 account per frame. In other words there IS NO canon explanation. Being able to switch is just a game mechanic. Plain and simple. Away with all the straight, gay, transexual, androgenous stuff. Warframe isn't a dating simulator. Edited January 13, 2015 by Ergo-Proxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Away with all the straight, gay, transexual, androgenous stuff. Warframe isn't a dating simulator. Just wanted to point out that those things don't have anything to do with dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityPrime Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There's actually only one Tenno and one Warframe. It's just that whenever you *switch* between them in the arsenal, you're actually switching to a parallel universe where that Tenno/Warframe exists, with all your stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymerc Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) All I know is that we cannot simply be "wearing" different Warframes like pairs of clothing. When you go and do an Assassination Mission for Sgt. Nef Anyo, the Lotus clearly tells you to "Save your fellow Tenno" which strongly implies they are in fact their own person. The G. Dilemma also strongly implied the same thing about the cache of sleeping Tenno Alad V was after at the time. I do not know if it's fair or not to use the Trailers as a point of argument, but if so, then it's so obvious each Warframe is an individual person. The only thing that makes it seem like Warframes are basically clothing is how we switch between them on our Liset. I want to counter that with perhaps we have individual Tenno who are "sleeping" in Cryopods somewhere in the Liset's storage that is obviously on Hyper-Storage levels until they are needed. Edited January 13, 2015 by Tymerc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Meh. Gender doesn't bother me that much. What is or is not swinging around at hip level doesn't affect how I kill things. I do tend to play more female 'frames over male simply because I don't like staring at an ugly butt for a long time. : / EDIT: Spelling, pff. Who does that? Edited January 13, 2015 by Noamuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiegraf Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Considering I'm kind of inclined to think that the Tenno no longer have a base physical body and are now energy beings (thus, what animates a Warframe when they're inside of it), I'm guessing the Warframe's 'genders' only reflect the esthetical design of the original version of that Warframe, in that every other X Warframe is a copy of the original which is why you can have 4 Embers or 2 Rhinos and 2 Mesa in the same group. It's about the same as if someone worn a suit with modeled female breasts or masculine pectoral muscles : they only appear to be that gender no matter who's actually inside the suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ergo-Proxy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Just wanted to point out that those things don't have anything to do with dating. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with dating? Sorry, try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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