Aigloblam Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 And we're off recent topics, hope we can still get enough attention for DE to take notice. This went Mega-Thread within 15 minutes of the Patch Dropping, With less than 30 posts. DE Will Listen. What they do or say about it i don't have a clue, but i'd bet all the plat in the DE Vaults that they are reading and watching this thread at this very minute. I trust DE's attentiveness. Maybe not their reasoning ALL the time, but definitely their attentiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 This sounds like a bug that needs to be fixed in Ember's WOF case. Oh I think there's more that needs to be "fixed" in Ember's entire kit after that one. Is it really now LoS? That's pretty horrible. And the other complaints in this thread as well? Are they true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 OOOOO And i was Ninja'd by Rebecca....Nice one Lotus. This sounds like a bug that needs to be fixed in Ember's WOF case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Can someone please link the thread that lists changes to ember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So lets be clear WoF changes made today are a NERF. Not only did they add a useless toggle mechanic which has no reason for existence at all, they decided to implement the inability to pick up energy orbs while using it. So lets add up all the reasons to completely ignore said skill EVEN after a SUPPOSED buff. 1. Worthless toggle mechanic that provides no benefit whatsoever and is not even remotely in line with what the community has been clamoring for.(at least Mirage has a blind effect at the end of her ult) 2. Utterly broken energy mechanic that prevents you from even obtaining ORBS while it is active. So you should cancel it and reactivate it right? Wrong, the skill costs to activate it more than what you will obtain from the orb so you utterly SCREW yourself trying to accrue more energy while it is active. 3. Damage for WoF is laughable most of the time. 4. TARGETING for WoF is still the broken iteration of 3 targets chosen at random that get hit one time with no type of CC or any appreciable effect and then 3 more random targets are chosen to receive the same nearly unnoticeable treatment. What in the name of all that is holy ever possessed you guys to do this????? REMOVE THE DURATION, PERIOD nothing else is acceptable. Ember has already had the most lackluster ultimate in the game for the longest time and now with a potential shot at SOMETHING WORTHWHILE you guys utterly shattered all Ember fans hopes. Make a change now before you put something else on the drawing board to mess with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskaran498 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 First, no damage buff sucks. Second, doesn't that 5 energy per sec get affected by efficiency mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egregiousRac Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So she gets a base stat buff, but the fireblast change is worthless and the WoF change is a straight up nerf. Wow. This is as bad as the Frost 'buffs'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHunterX Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 This sounds like a bug that needs to be fixed in Ember's WOF case. No, that's how all channeled abilities function. It's definitely working as intended, its just... bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 World on Fire is now garbage, Accelerant has even less reason to exist on Ember, and Fireblast is great now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNonApplicable Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Something else to add, did a ceres run to test high level viability, verdict, too much glass, not enough cannon. Nova, the other glass cannon is still, unsurprisingly the better choice. Ember has to get closer to harms way to deal her damage, but she's so fragile she gets ruined doing so. Whereas Nova has far superior multiperson damage capabilities and they pack in some personal protection. My personal opinion is that in order to compete at high levels with nova, even the slightest, she needs duration stripped from her ulti and the target number limit removed and only be affected by range, because her damage is too slow to deal when she's at a deadly range, to warrant dumping the energy for such a short time. Edited January 22, 2015 by MrNonApplicable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egregiousRac Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 First, no damage buff sucks. Second, doesn't that 5 energy per sec get affected by efficiency mods? It is affected by efficiency mods, but it is still a base cost of 100 for 10 seconds or 25 after efficiency. If you have an increased duration build, it is a straight-up nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadaddadada Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 That's a step forward. Before, Ember had exactly zero viable builds. Now, she has 3: Fire Blast spam, Fire Blast spam and, most notably, Fire Blast spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Something else to add, did a ceres run to test high level viability, verdict, too much glass, not enough cannon. Nova, the other glass cannon is still, unsurprisingly the better choice. Ember has to get closer to harms way to deal her damage, but she's so fragile she gets ruined doing so. Whereas Nova has far superior multiperson damage capabilities and they pack in some personal protection. And it's sad, because Nova's "nerf" was really a buff for that frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halser Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 That's a step forward. Before, Ember had exactly zero viable builds. Now, she has 3: Fire Blast spam, Fire Blast spam and, most notably, Fire Blast spam. World on Fire is now garbage, Accelerant has even less reason to exist on Ember, and Fireblast is great now. That's a step forward. Before, Ember had exactly zero viable builds. Now, she has 3: Fire Blast spam, Fire Blast spam and, most notably, Fire Blast spam. Is it viable, though? The damage is awful, and the knockdown is based on line of sight, which we all know hardly works well. There's no buff, anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyssa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Okay, so, got to try out the new WoF! Rules for WoF: -Slightly faster casting time?(they say it is, but I have on Natural talent, so it's hard to tell) -Lasts as long as always. -Can be turned off early to conserve energy -Prevents energy restores from affecting you -Prevents energy siphon from affecting you -Otherwise entirely identical to previous iteration of WoF ...I don't know that anyone wanted an "off" button for WoF, and I'm not really sure how this rendition helps anyone... What was the intended goal with this? What few perks it had as an ability have been stripped, and in exchange, it's gotten an not-particularly-meaningful "off" switch. I'd rather have the last version than this, and most players believe that version needed a buff to be in line with the other ults in the game. It's gone from a "keep on at all times" ability to something less-desireable than throwing fireballs. I realize that giving her an armor and speed buff may need some rebalancing to be done to pay for it, but hitting WoF like this was cruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If this is what DE calls a 'buff', I don't even want to fathom what a 'nerf' is. If you look up "Nerf" in the DEictionary, youll see: 1. Removing Overheat From Ember 2. Iron Skin Nerf Fiasco 3. Snow Globe Issue 4. Bastille Disaster Not saying i agree or disagree....but those, my friend, were NERFS in the highest degree. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 And it's sad, because Nova's "nerf" was really a buff for that frame. Nova's Nerf was an extremely well done Balance pass. Kept her from stealing ALL kills, but still let her be very active and incredibly useful. I think they did perfectly on that one. Now if only they would use the same skill with Ember.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88th_Phantom Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 To quote myself from the Update thread: Loving Ember buffs so far, but would like to have some clarity about WoF's duration sticking on top of the toggle - is this intended? having both seems to defeat the purpose of the toggle and doesn't actually allow players to move her away from her duration mod dependency in order to really utilize these new buffs. on top of that, sorry to ask but, what about Accelerant? Accelerant - although potentially having a touch more utility if the WoF duration isn't intended - is about the only thing that doesn't seem to fit that snugly into this nice new bundle o' buffs. Could I suggest that Accelerant becomes a close-range toggle as well? enemies withing range will take the effect for the time they're in range and energy will drain for the duration this is active. this makes it a plausible short term damage buff for standard fire damage effects and also allows players to douse-down their drain with world on fire to create a devastating combo, of course 'the flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long' meaning players will need to be cautious of their energy consumption. I really hope this can be considered for further down the pipeline - this is the only thing stopping ember from being a perfect sustained offense caster. Please DE, consider. Thanks for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) If this is what DE calls a 'buff', I don't even want to fathom what a 'nerf' is. If DE doesn't like frames like Ember and Trinity so much and almost seems to actively discourage their use, then they should just get rid of them. Why spend the time to nerf these frames to the ground when they could just get rid of them? If they don't want people using these frames (the only reason I can think of why they would keep underpowering/nerfing certain frames), then why have them in the game at all? And if they do want people to use Ember, Trinity, Banshee, then they need to start making changes to them that will actually encourage their use. Maybe someone else needs to be in charge of balancing items in the game. Maybe then the game would actually get balanced... And I've got the same opinion of the art department that refuses to revisit older assets. Edited January 22, 2015 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is it viable, though? The damage is awful, and the knockdown is based on line of sight, which we all know hardly works well. Seems to be mostly viable. I tried it on a couple different maps, it doesn't seem to be as strict as the LoS on other things. It seems to get blocked by random bits of environment on Earth though, which isn't great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjeon Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) World on Fire is in my opinion now the poorest implemented ability in the game. You're better off just spamming Fire Blasts all over the place. WoF has absolutely no advantages over it's previous implementation. And it has a severe disadvantage in removing your ability to benefit from Energy restoring effects. I'm going to believe that it's going to be improved, because it cannot be a worse ultimate unless it like drained your life at the same time or something. I rarely completely hate changes in this game. But my feelings for this are rather strong. Edited January 22, 2015 by Ryjeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira_him Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Can't you just remove the duration for WoF and allow her to pick up energy orbs while activating WoF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is it viable, though? The damage is awful, and the knockdown is based on line of sight, which we all know hardly works well. There's no buff, anywhere. It knocks back enemies, and still leaves the circle of fire that causes enemies to panic. It is a really good skill now, although it looks a bit weird having a heatwave spread out widely and only leaving a small circle where it was casted. At the same time, since you can just spam Fireblast, Accelerant has even less usage, seeing as Accelerant can only stun the same targets one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halser Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Seems to be mostly viable. I tried it on a couple different maps, it doesn't seem to be as strict as the LoS on other things. It seems to get blocked by random bits of environment on Earth though, which isn't great. My point is that Ember still isn't viable, and the only half decent ability is Fire Blast. And I can't recommend a frame to anyone because of a half decent ability whose only selling point is a short knockdown on a small area unaffected by mods, LoS dependant that deals low damage with a bad damage type. Edited January 22, 2015 by Halser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensignvidiot Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Okay, so, got to try out the new WoF! Rules for WoF: -Slightly faster casting time?(they say it is, but I have on Natural talent, so it's hard to tell) -Lasts as long as always. -Can be turned off early to conserve energy -Prevents energy restores from affecting you -Prevents energy siphon from affecting you -Otherwise entirely identical to previous iteration of WoF ...I don't know that anyone wanted an "off" button for WoF, and I'm not really sure how this rendition helps anyone... What was the intended goal with this? What few perks it had as an ability have been stripped, and in exchange, it's gotten an not-particularly-meaningful "off" switch. I'd rather have the last version than this, and most players believe that version needed a buff to be in line with the other ults in the game. It's gone from a "keep on at all times" ability to something less-desireable than throwing fireballs. I realize that giving her an armor and speed buff may need some rebalancing to be done to pay for it, but hitting WoF like this was cruel. I hate it. I used to be able to go blind-rage/efficiency and make the energy orbs back for a recast during the effect. Now they killed the ability to maintain it. If it had no duration, I wouldnt mind... with Primed Flow, I'd be able to sustain WoF for awhile. but in its current incarnation: I just want it gone from the World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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