De(L), Can You Task The Pvp Team To Fix The Loki Decoy + Switch Teleport Exploit First (With An Image To Show That The Exploit Can Be Very Unfair)?

[Renegade343]

Hello all,

 

In Dark Sectors PVP, there are players who use Loki for black energy invisibility just to make themselves truly invisible, giving themselves an unfair advantage. However, this then evolved to using Switch Teleport + Decoy behind a wall to get out of the map. And now, thanks to that exploit, Lokis can actually enter the defenders' safe room, and kill the defenders in there with little to no repercussion. I have a screenshot of proof to indicate that this can happen: 

 

 

The circled area is to show that there is a player enemy Loki. I have hidden the name away as per the forum rules. If any of you really want to know who that player is, I will only send you the image via PM, under the promise that you will not then distribute it to anywhere else. As much as this player deserves to be punished for his actions, let DE(L) decide on the punishment. 

 

Please discuss civilly in this thread.

 

Renegade343

[MrNonApplicable]

So many people in warframe that exploit anything for a one up over the next guy :/

[FuzzyRamen]

Its call Invisibility right? its doing its job.

[Kestral9999]

Well the black energy thing is fine in my opinion. A trained eye can still spot a black energy Loki. But going into the enemy spawn room? Not cool.

[Rakshal]

Well the black energy thing is fine in my opinion. A trained eye can still spot a black energy Loki. But going into the enemy spawn room? Not cool.

Actually you can't see black energy invisiblity. If you can see it then you have to be really close meaning you gonna be stun locked. Edited January 29, 2015 by Rakshal

[Kestral9999]

Actually you can't see black energy invisiblity. If you can see it then you have to be really close meaning you gonna be stun locked.

I guess this is a matter of opinion because I can see them when they're heading from the offensive side towards my defense objective. I've sniped a fair few of them with Vectis and Glaive Prime.

[Jag272]

I guess this is a matter of opinion because I can see them when they're heading from the offensive side towards my defense objective. I've sniped a fair few of them with Vectis and Glaive Prime.

Agreed, its actually quite visible with a trained eye, some graphics options being turn on (in a shocking turn of events compared to most games) actually helps too, physx and bloom in particular make them shine but ofcourse this isnt viable for everyone.

 

The switch teleport into spawn room definitely needs addressing though.

[GhostSwordsman]

Well, in the Dev Stream 45 overview, DEAdam wrote that they do have a team working to balance PvP. One of these balances include PvP specific warframes, weapons, and mods. Having a separate, specific loadout for PvP should help out a lot when it comes to balance and exploits such as this.

 

Read here.

[.Talia.]

Black Energy Invisibility (Or Smoke Screen) is not visible. At all. It's not a matter of ''trained eye''. It is completely invisible.

[Renegade343]

Well, in the Dev Stream 45 overview, DEAdam wrote that they do have a team working to balance PvP. One of these balances include PvP specific warframes, weapons, and mods. Having a separate, specific loadout for PvP should help out a lot when it comes to balance and exploits such as this.

 

Read here.

The problem posted here transcends the game balance of PVP. 

 

This is concerning about maps and level building in conjunction with PVP, in which a relatively respectable PVP game would not let this slide through (barring glitches and bugs). 

[.Talia.]

Black Energy is broken and needs to be changed so we are able to see the visual effects of abilities. Specially Invisibility and Smoke Screen. There are many topics about this (Just search for Black Energy on this sub-forum). Some of them dating far back, when Black Energy was implemented, on a quick search i noticed some of them have already been archived - that's how old the problem is. Yet DE still ignore the issue. I hope this new PvP Balance ''Task Force'' will at least take a look into this problem.

The screenshot the OP provided is not the full black energy color, thats why the invisibility effect is barely visible. This is how actual black energy looks like:

 

I know many players want to keep the Black Energy because its actually useful for example on Snow Globe, so you can see better, of for those who don't want shiny explosions on their Molecular Prime. But on PvP this is a serious problem, Invisibility and Smoke Screen were not supposed to be completely invisible. They have an actual visible special effect, if you use any other color you can see it. But the last black colors from Smoke Palette makes it completely invisible, undetectable.

Edited January 29, 2015 by RexSol

[Tsoe]

sorry but i love that tread....

 

 

Loki been ccreated to troll.... DE won this

[Kestral9999]

Black Energy Invisibility (Or Smoke Screen) is not visible. At all. It's not a matter of ''trained eye''. It is completely invisible.

You can keep saying that, but my ranged kill count against them forces me to disagree.

[Kestral9999]

The problem posted here transcends the game balance of PVP. 

 

This is concerning about maps and level building in conjunction with PVP, in which a relatively respectable PVP game would not let this slide through (barring glitches and bugs). 

My clan would have kicked me over such blatant cheating, as I'd expect any reputable clan to do as well. If you can't win fairly, you've already lost. A rail is not so important that it's worth cheating over.

 

Renegade343 I'd recommend reporting this nuisance to his clan's warlord. I doubt he'd be terribly pleased to hear how this player is representing their alliance.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Kestral9999

[elele]

As much as I hate black energy trolki, if you take away black energy invisibility, what does Loki have for PVP then? 

 

An "invisibility" skill that does not actually make him invisible, a "decoy" that does not actually distract enemy player, a "disarm" that actually does not disarm. Loki would be even more useless in PVP than Nekros. 

[Feyangol]

As much as I hate black energy trolki, if you take away black energy invisibility, what does Loki have for PVP then? 

 

An "invisibility" skill that does not actually make him invisible, a "decoy" that does not actually distract enemy player, a "disarm" that actually does not disarm. Loki would be even more useless in PVP than Nekros. 

That's why we got a PvP team which has to balance everything.

Now we have broken mechanics or super-nerfed mechanics :) .

[Renegade343]

An "invisibility" skill that does not actually make him invisible

With all the other PVP games that introduce invisibility (such as your famous Halo), yes, the player can become fully invisible, but when the player shoots or moves a lot, that invisibility cloak will become semi-visible, giving other players a chance to spot the invisible player and shoot him. 

 

You can just apply that to Warframe via shooting making invisible players become more visible. 

[elele]

With all the other PVP games that introduce invisibility (such as your famous Halo), yes, the player can become fully invisible, but when the player shoots or moves a lot, that invisibility cloak will become semi-visible, giving other players a chance to spot the invisible player and shoot him. 

 

You can just apply that to Warframe via shooting making invisible players become more visible. 

 

Then they'll just use Latron Prime or Vectis or Opticor while cloaked to get the jump on you and one or two shot kill you. 

 

Don't know about Halo but cloaking (among other things) killed Crysis 2's multiplayer. Crysis 2 had exactly the same mechanism you described (shooting cancels cloaking). 

 

Blacklight Retribution did cloaking right IMO: you need to hold a device to cload. While holding the device, you can't shoot or use any weapons. Once you put out your weapon, you de-cloak with a very alarming sound. The one second time to pull out the weapon is enough to get the cloaking guy killed if his enemy is on alert.

 

In Warframe's mechanism, DE can make the player only able to cloak while holding the scanner. 

[Renegade343]

Then they'll just use Latron Prime or Vectis or Opticor while cloaked to get the jump on you and one or two shot kill you. 

Well, this is a valid strategy. 

 

Halo also does that as well: Players can use snipers with invisibility to kill enemies while being hidden, but as the Halo games go on, invisibility powers also fade when you move, meaning you either risk staying still and shooting (and thus having more chance of being exposed), or move to a new place to get a better angle or evade enemy shots, but at the cost of being a bit more visible. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Renegade343

[Feyangol]

Make it like the LoL mechanic of stealth:

Complete Invisibility (like with black energy) until the first attack or ability (Melee attacks like directional melee or copter count as a attack).

[DrBorris]

Wait... are people arguing that black energy Invisibility/Smoke Screen are not OP?

 

 

Welp, time to abandon the subforum

[Rompido]

I know right? you can't see true black invis loki. at all! those that claim you can, are fighting invis loki not using true black.

[Kizlev]

Solution for DE dev wizards: decouple energy colours from Loki invisibility. Make invis effect identical to cloaking effect seen in games like Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex Human Revolution. No colouring at all. Universal effect regardless of chosen energy colour. Something similar for Ash. And hey OP, that was the perfect way to report a problem like that in pvp. Kudos.

[Kestral9999]

Reporting him to his warlord won't fix it. xd  He is not the only one using it. 

 

-Also imagine if the guy using it, is the warlord. XD

The average clan/alliance usually promotes fair play, I know mine does. They'd be quite upset and I'd likely be kicked from the clan/alliance if they found out we were using illegitimate or nefarious means to secure victory. If that was indeed their clan's warlord he should be ashamed and usurped (If only that were an option).

[Kestral9999]

Wait... are people arguing that black energy Invisibility/Smoke Screen are not OP?

 

 

Welp, time to abandon the subforum

Weird reaction but do as you will. I've never even used the black energy (besides on Nekros) and I don't think that it's OP since I've killed several of those that do for Loki's invisibility. 

 

In the interest of fairness, I use gold energy on my Loki Prime.

 

I know right? you can't see true black invis loki. at all! those that claim you can, are fighting invis loki not using true black.

Again, I simply cannot agree since I've killed a fair few of them, and yes I can tell the difference as it is much harder to spot them.

 

Not bragging, simply offering rebuttal.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Kestral9999