Worthless First Abilities Are Disappointing

[(PSN)Aryonas]

I have almost 600 hours of Gameplay on PS4 and PC. This is based on experience in all gameplay, including End Game, as well as what thousands of other players are doing.

 

Weapons are something that any player can work towards and build. Any warframe can build and weapon and make it fit almost any situation or enemy. But our Warframe is what sets us apart from our weapons AND our enemies.

 

Each ability is tailored for the theme of the warframe and you know what to expect when you see a Trinity or an Oberon walk into the map to aid you.

 

Given the fact that the Abilities are the single largest reasons for choosing a different Warframe, why then are many of the initial abilities basically useless?

 

Lets make a list:

 

Shuruikin, Fireball, Slash Dash, Freeze, Tempest Barrage, Soul Punch, Null Star, Smite, Rhino Charge, Venom, Well of Life, and Shock.

 

There is no doubt that beyond the very beginning of the game these skills may as well just be for show. The best evidence I can give is that before the removal of skill from the Mod table, people would not even equip those skills and forma the slot out. You can't be expected to cast smite or shock twenty or more times to try and take down a single target. And who in their right mind is modding their warframe to benefit these abilities? We just don't use them unless it is a very very specific situation.

 

I think that a big part of making this game more fun would be to increase the viability of these skills GREATLY, along with the other skills for warframes. It would help incredibly to flavor each frame uniquely even more than they are. I feel there is so much potential for a overhaul here lying just beneath the surface.

[Absens]

Shock is not useless

I can give a list of occasions where slash dash and rhino charge are useful, but yeah you can call them useless i guess.

But shock is not useless.

And i agree, you are mostly right about the situation.

Now it came to my mind, shock is actually better than Volts ultimate, how bout making a list of useless ultimates instead of first skills?

Edited January 29, 2015 by unnamedlord

[flamedance58]

Would you like to put some backing behind your choices?

 

I say this cause Smite is very useful as it's been buffed and the fact it's has an assured Confusion proc on the target and it makes Grineer melt.

 

Venom is a great ability that most people look over as Saryn suffers from Pre-Buff Oberon Syndrome where everyone builds Saryn purely for Miasma and only uses her for that. Despite that the ability is quite good if you're coordinated and your team mates know how to take advantage of the ability.

 

Shock? Though the DPS on it can't achieve anything fantastic for end game, the range on it is ridiculous and the amount of enemies it effects is pretty good. Don't forget the great proc it has on stunning enemies. If anything it's great for a bit of DPS but it makes an even better CC.

[EversorNinja]

Shuriken + Augment (Seeking Shuriken): wrecks corrupted heavy gunners + bombards

 

Slash Dash / Rhino Charge: mobility (yeah, these need a buff)

 

Shock / Tempest Barrage: cc, I actually use these two quite a bit for the stun, not the damage

 

Soul Punch + Augment: insta-revive, this is situational

 

Null Star + Augment: more cc!

 

Smite: radiation proc is great cc

 

Generally these abilities need buffs, and relying on augments is not the way to go, but a lot of them aren't useless in endgame

Edited January 29, 2015 by EversorNinja

[Hayzemet]

Nah some of them suck other are good, Shock for instance is good slash dash could use some tweaking, fireball is also aoe, same as smite and tempest barrage, and they got cc. so most of ur examples lack accuracy. On the other hand, soem 1's do suck, like freeze , the redudntant well of life, shuriken, soul punch (but it is getting tweaked, still its singe target) mesa's, banish is horrid ( i hate limbo), null star is also bad, and so is venom but that one is circumstancial.

[Riot_Inducer]

Shuriken, Fireball, Shock, Smite and Venom are all quite good #1 abilities imo.

 

Shuriken, Fireball, Shock and Smite all have respectable damage and reliable/garuanteed status effects and AoE elements.

 

Venom is amazing for spreading Viral procs, it simply needs to be easier to spread and Saryn's ult needs to be changed to encourage running positive duration instead of negative. 

[Anatolius]

Not all of those abilities are bad

Sometimes though you gotta get alittle creative

Dont expect to kill anything, more for the utility purpse

 

Shuriken: Bleed proc bypasses armor/shields. Good on flesh based enemies. Augment can effectively remove all armor from an enemy

Fireball: Easy fire proc (panic proc) Relativly strong and aggressive on accelrant enemies.

Slash Dash: Meh. Could be better,increase your melee counter

Freeze: Freezes enemies, what more could you want

Tempast Barrage: ALL THE KNOCKDOWN, dont tell me this is a bad ability

Soul Punch: Could be better, only really good on infested as they cluster together enough that you can see the knockdown results

Nullstar: could be better if they returned the stagger. Made for a good M prime stigger

Smite: How is this bad? Aggressively attacks a dude then goes to get the next dudes???

Rhino Charge: Meh. knockdown and some speed

Venom: Is actually very strong if you pop the bubbles,even stronger with 4x corrosive projections

Well of Life: could really go for a change BUT the ability to stop an enemy is the only perk

Shock: Stunlock electric proc

 

the only "bad" ones or at least ones i dont like are the ones where you go straight and you cant control it and leave all the enemies behind. Well of Life just happens to fall short because there are like 20 other ways to get more health

[Ryjeon]

Shock is amazing and is one of the better first abilities. It's quite a reliable and easy to hit stun. You can aim at the floor and still hit a lot of enemies. It's especially nice for relieving enemy pressure while you're reloading your weapon. I always use it very heavily when I run Volt. It's one of my favorite things about him. It's quite handy at clearing pesky ospreys too. I think it's a great baseline for how first abilities should be: inexpensive, quick and satisfying.

[DogManDan]

didn't you just do a negative post a few minutes ago about weapons and some frames, now you are going to make a new post talking about abilities.

 

Maybe you have not put in enough hours yet to understand some of these abilities, or maybe you have not read up on changes that were made to some of the abilities, or maybe you have not used some of the augments for these abilities.

 

I suggest you go back and re-learn how to play some of these. Not all are great but most do have a use in some manner.

[CY13ERPUNK]

well

 

A - ALL #1 frame abilities are NOT worthless

 

BUT

 

B - I have thought this for awhile and I still do, I think #1 abilities should not cost energy, instead I think they should generate energy (obviously not 25 energy, but maybe 5-10 or so)

 

of course many would need their stats adjusted to make them not too OP by being spammed (might even adjust their power/energy ratios individually, ie some give more/less than others, things like slash dash could give more energy for each tgt hit, and others like soul punch would have to give more per use, since they require a tgt to be cast)

 

anyways, the whole point of making the #1 generate energy is to remove/get rid of the blue balls system

 

this could also go alongside innate base energy regen for frames (could be different rates for each frame) and the introduction of cooldowns for most ULTs and various other abilities (all tweaked individually obviously)

Edited January 29, 2015 by CY13ERPUNK

[hoeskioeh]

Venom scales with enemies... sure, Against lvl 30 crewman it's worthless... five Lvl60+ Bombards as a team? totally worth it.

 

And what about Hall of Mirrors?

[Photon95]

2/3s of the abilities you mentioned are actually super good. it just has to do with HOW you use them.

 

Shurikin inflicts bleed, and most of the time ash players max out damage for blade storm anyway, so his 1 actually gets a bit of love from the build as well.

 

Have you even tried using accelerant? Ember's 2 supercharges all of her abilities, not to mention fireball can be use just about any time at any angle, including during reload. It's a neat ability for spreading heat procs from a distance.

 

Slash dash and Rhino charge are kinda sub-par, but that doesn't mean they're totally useless. Both give decent instant mobility, practically ignoring anyone in front.

 

Freeze....could use an aiming buff, but otherwise, a nice pause button for heavies.

 

Tempest barrage is absolutely crazy. The damage aint great, but the stun lock is more than welcome.

 

Soul punch is getting a change soon, so nothing major to say until then, but the augment turns it into a must for team play.

 

Null star's actually pretty neat, throw out MP and star does the rest.

 

Smite is a fantastic crowd spreader. What it doesn't kill, attacks someone else, and the wisps it creates are a neat add on to boot.

 

Venom is absolutely one of Saryn's best, viral procs are a Tenno's best friend against high lvl enemy HP.

 

Well of life, nothing really shines here, i'll give you that.

 

Shock does just that, a shock, a chain shock to be exact. It's an effective run n' gun tool for quick get-aways.

[SinReplica]

Shock is not useless

I can give a list of occasions where slash dash and rhino charge are useful, but yeah you can call them useless i guess.

But shock is not useless.

And i agree, you are mostly right about the situation.

Now it came to my mind, shock is actually better than Volts ultimate, how bout making a list of useless ultimates instead of first skills?

I remember back when WF abilities were actual mods and people would tell me I was wasting space on Volt with Shock. Sure he doesn't live up to his "alternative to guns" title atm, but stunning is a primary tactic for him (especially when solo). One doesn't need their shield to last for long outside of defense missions, and speed is situational unless your a melee beast. 

 

Besides, those sweet headshots on flailing enemies never get old.

Edited January 29, 2015 by SinReplica

[DrCrawford]

I have almost 600 hours of Gameplay on PS4 and PC. This is based on experience in all gameplay, including End Game, as well as what thousands of other players are doing.

 

Hahahaha, sorry couldn't help but laugh a little when you said end game.

[Retrikaethan]

the only abilities i have a problem with are the ones which force you to have the cursor over the target to cast it :<

[SHOCKED]

I disagree with OP's opinion on these #1 abilities as I use them very frequently. Slash Dash and Rhino Charge are not very strong but all the other ones listed can be quite effective.

[Aigloblam]

Lots of people have talked about the others, so i shall confine my argument to Slash Dash and Rhino Charge.

 

You have any idea the mobility these powers give you? The ONLY frame/weapon combo in the game to have ever beaten my Excal in a straight speed run is a Zephyr with a Tipedo. And even then, it was only once. Those two abilities are the absolute essence of Agility. They may not do a massive amount of damage, but that doesnt mean they are useless, by no stretch of the word. Yeah numbers are a really big part of Warframe in general...But they don't mean everything :)

[taiiat]

Shuruikin, Fireball, Slash Dash, Freeze, Tempest Barrage, Soul Punch, Null Star, Smite, Rhino Charge, Venom, Well of Life, and Shock.

i would have to say of the ones you mentioned:

 

Shuriken, Fireball, Smite, and Shock are all very effective. (though i wish Fire Status Effects were more reliable at Panicking, so that Ember could use Fire Status as CC)

 

Tempest Barrage, and Freeze are adequate. there's some tweaks i'd make to each but they do perform adequately.

 

Venom is... okay. the Damage it deals isn't that much, which is understandably intended.

however Viral Effects are okay, but Weapons can do it even faster for the Priority Targets (while also doing a lot of Damage), so i have a hard time really calling it 'good'.

and the Spreading of Venom leaves something to be desired nowadays. :(

i still use it on big Targets though, it can be useful. i just feel it's overshadowed in quite a few situations.

 

leaving only Null Star and Soul Punch as ones that are just very meh. Null Star can stagger one Enemy that gets too close but.... i don't feel it's worth it for that. it's like an Energy based Cosmetic.

and Soul Punch is just kind've clunky to cast, but it is satisfying to use.

 

Slash Dash and Rhino Charge go in their own category.

Slash Dash is.... kind've sort've okay. generally kind've meh though.

Rhino Charge could be adqeuate if you could knock down all Enemies that you hit directly, and atleast Stagger ones nearby but not directly hit.

and also ofcourse keep going regardless of what Enemy(ies) you hit. for both Abilities.

 

 

and we don't talk about Well of Life. it's basically not even an Ability. only good for combo'ing with Energy Vampire for assassinating Enemies.

 

 

 

Edit:

in other words, most of these are already quite viable.

some of them do significant Damage, others have effective CC.

pair that with the cheap as hell Energy Cost, and you have effective Abilities.

 

sure, you could AFKfarm and spam AoE Blasts all day while having your face shoved in a corner, but we don't balance the game around that (nor should we condone Players doing that either, but that's a different conversation).

Edited January 29, 2015 by taiiat

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Lets make a list:

 

Shurikin - good for a quick bit of damage while reloading (I actually didn't know about the bleed proc which is even better)

Fireball - good for a quick fire proc, but I agree, I'm not a fan

Slash Dash - good for a quick mobility boost

Freeze - I agree this ability sucks.  The aim is completely unreliable and it doesn't STOP enemies, just slows them down.

Soul Punch - this is super effective against heavies, especially when doing defense, and ESPECIALLY useful with the augment mod

Smite - this ability is great.  I main Oberon and I frequently need to blast an enemy so I can gun him down, especially if I don't have enough energy for Reckoning (which in ODD is frequently)

Rhino Charge - good for a quick mobility boost, but I agree it's inaccurate and plain lame.

Venom - I never learned how to use Saryn properly, but I'll agree this ability isn't so great

Pull - Mag gets no love, her #1 is great

Mind Control - do you not play Nyx?

Sonic boom - Banshee's #1 needs work, it's basically a melee attack which doesn't suit her play style at all

Tail Wind - This is what makes Zephyr fun!

Rip Line - Yeah, not exactly useful by itself, but when you're in histeria mode, is Valkyr's only ranged attack

 

 

I snipped out the ones I haven't used, and plugged in the ones I have used

 

the only abilities i have a problem with are the ones which force you to have the cursor over the target to cast it :<

That's 50% of Ash's arsenal and Smite, lol.  But I agree with you!

[Aumaan]

why then are many of the initial abilities basically useless?

 

...Shock.

 

 

 basically useless

 

 

Shock

 

 

There is no doubt that beyond the very beginning of the game these skills may as well just be for show. 

 

 

Shock

 

 

\\

 

You had better not be bad mouthing my Volt's bread and butter.  Weapon with a long reload? Shock halfway through.  Big group of enemies just around the corner? Shock the wall or floor.  Staring down a lvl50 corrupted Bombard? Let's see how they like being stunlocked.

 

Shock has saved my and my teams lives on multiple occasions because of the widespread stun either giving us the time to get away or simply to get rid of the threat without fear of counterattack.

 

 

 

EDIT: I tried to do some fancy BBCode stuff to change font size and such for emphasis but nothing worked, sadness was had.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Aumaan

[Vargras]

Calling Shock, Shuriken, and Smite "useless".

 

u wot.

[Auramaru]

Smite isn't useless. I use it thoroughly on all Exterminate, Rescue, Survival, and Capture missions.

 

As for the rest, everyone else is covering it. First abilities certainly aren't useless if you make a build towards it.  My Smite can one-shot pretty much anything up to ~level 25 and causes confuzzles (confusion).

[Azamagon]

Shuruikin, Fireball, Slash Dash, Freeze, Tempest Barrage, Soul Punch, Null Star, Smite, Rhino Charge, Venom, Well of Life, and Shock.

 

Let's inspect this THOROUGHLY, shall we?

 

* Shuriken - Zero utility (so it DOES fall off), but has its uses due to the autoaim and armor ignoring bleed. With something as simple as a stagger and it would be just fine, imo.

* Fireball - High damage, at least if combined with Accelerant, but its utility is quite lackluster. Needs knockdown in the AoE or something. Far from the worst first ability though.

* Slash Dash - Meh, I guess, but at least grants some mobility. If it benefitted from the combo counter (not just contribute to it) and staggered the enemies passed through, it'd be WAY better.

* Freeze - The freezing is nice... except for the fact that it breaks early. Furthermore, its aoe is non-existant, only provides a CHANCE for a cold proc anyway. This is one of the worst, for sure

* Tempest Barrage - Decent utility... if it weren't for the fact that it misses all the frikkin time, cannot be spammed, has horrendous targetting and doesn't scale POSITIVELY with power range (just misses more). Needs fixing in targetting, recastability and range scaling, otherwise ok imo.

* Soul Punch - Ragdoll is ok, but that is IT. It really needs far more to it to be of any use. The aoe "projectile" is just useless.

* Null Star - Has no utility. It used to stagger, and that was invaluable defense. Bring that back and it would be pretty decent to use.

* Smite - Ummm, this one is awesome now. Knockdown, confusion, puncture procs. One of the better firsts, really.

* Rhino Charge - Faster than Slash Dash, but is kinda "meh" overall. Something is missing. At least grants decent mobility and knockdown.

* Venom - Useless on low levels, amazing on higher levels. Just needs to be easier to use, to make it better on low level stuff as well.

* Well of Life - Good CC, and can provide a bit of healing... but Blessing does the healing better, and Energy Vampire is less annoying (no 10x hp on the target) for CC. So, overall kinda useless.

* Shock - Actually also one of the better firsts, despite its low damage. Reliable stun with autoaim? Damage that gets pretty decent if shot into a cluster of enemies? It's actually really good.

 

So, overall I highly disagreed with Smite and Shock in particular. The others, yeah, they could need some more tuning though.

[Darkmoone1]

I only agree with Slash Dash and Rhino charge. Both abilities have needed heavy changes for months now and are simply obsolete. Mobility is now covered with other, non energy costing mechanics in the game, both have pathetic damage values, and overall feel like clone-like abilities when used next to each other since it's essentially move from point A to point B doing this much amount of damage along the way. Even the CC Rhino charge does is ok at best since warframes like Hydroid have a much better first ability CC(more reliable), along with a fire and forget cast that can hit more enemies reliably(Which means a more consistent amount of damage.).

 

Everything else I'm not sure about or respectfully disagree. Key first abilities that I think are actually great are Shock, Smite, Shuriken, and Tempest Barrage. The best aspect of all of these abilities are, in my opinion, is that the base damage they deal isn't exactly what makes them great. Shock can chain into multiple enemies, dealing split damage and stunning multiple opponents. Smite can proc radiation and seek out other enemies to deal damage to. Shurikens bleed proc that bypasses shields and armor, and Tempest Barrage which can knock legions of enemies down, and has the potential to be set up to last for a fair amount of time in order to lock up one area of the map.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Darkmoone1

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Does no one use Nyx or Mag? Their first abilities are two of the best in the game.