The Negative Connotations Around Starter Frames Such As Volt, Excalibur, And Mag

[-Appa-]

Okay, to start off try to keep the discussion civil, and this are personally my opinions from what I've seen :)

 

To start off, as in all games starter equipment has always had a bad stigma around it. And I feel Warframe does not differ. For example, I've been in games where (I don't know how, but) A Mag lvl 25-30 ish joined, and I was with 2 decked out MR 15, and 17 they left after 5-10 seconds, after stating in the chat "(Name of Mag user) leave, we need people with better gear" now I was quite astounded, For one I checked his gear and he did have a lvl 30 Synoid gammacor, which is one of if not the best secondary weapons.

 

But its not just this, I've also been on the receiving end, as I'm a dedicated Volt player, who just loves the way volt plays. And so I many games, and as soon as they see volt.. they leave, now personally I think this is wrong, and for one i can solo T4 Keys, and make it to 30+ Mins/waves / wave 8-12 on interception, so how does make me invalid to play with the public, with the volt i normally use.

 

It just seems really bad to judge said frame, by how they acquired it. So what are your opinions, have you experienced the wraith of the negative stigma of starter frames, or have you been lucky enough to not been hit by it? And thank you if have actually read this whole text XD

[Vargras]

I have never had any of this happen to myself while playing the aforementioned frames, and I haven't seen it happen to anyone else either.

 

You just have bad luck. Also this isn't really feedback.

[Absens]

Excalibur is perfect.

The thing is

Even thoug most of the community see Volt PERFECTLY balanced and a great frame, a great frame is a frame i want to see in my T4 missions honestly.

Volt doesnt meet my requirements in T4, since grenades pass through his shields in Void, and anything else he can do, someone else can do better.

Well he can give you speed for capture at least.

[TwelfthAngel]

I have never had any of this happen to myself while playing the aforementioned frames, and I haven't seen it happen to anyone else either.

 

You just have bad luck. Also this isn't really feedback.

Same. And I use all of the starter frames.

 

I'm going to guess that the person you were talking about really did have bad gear and was most likely with a low rank.

 

 I've been playing Volt main since CB and no one has ever complained to me about it.

 

And every one knows Excaliber and Mag have a great 4 ability. 

[-Appa-]

I have never had any of this happen to myself while playing the aforementioned frames, and I haven't seen it happen to anyone else either.

 

You just have bad luck. Also this isn't really feedback.

Ahhh dam I thought I put this in general discussion XD Ahh im an idiot :3

[Archistopheles]

There's a huge difference between a level 25 Mag and a level 30 Mag, but part of the problem with power creep which people forget is that it widens the gap between noob and "acceptable". There was a time when newer players could get away with fighting in Ceres or Eris without needing to have a Soma or Marelok.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

It is natural for new players to believe the starter frames are lame. Most games teach you that starter gear is garbage to be discarded asap. Not sure how one could impress upon the player the wrongness of this thinking without being heavy handed.

[unknow99]

This connotation is even more present with weapons like a Braton or anything not top-tier... :/

 

If I had the time, I'd max a Cronus,put formae & spread confusion towards those who think like that! :D

[-Appa-]

Excalibur is perfect.

The thing is

Even thoug most of the community see Volt PERFECTLY balanced and a great frame, a great frame is a frame i want to see in my T4 missions honestly.

Volt doesnt meet my requirements in T4, since grenades pass through his shields in Void, and anything else he can do, someone else can do better.

Well he can give you speed for capture at least.

Volt really is a perfectly ballanced, and i do agree, but I also use him as more of a gunslinger, aka shock to stun, speed, for just mobility (dat obex tho) and electric shield for well damage and safety, but idk maybe overload needs tweaking ;)

[-Appa-]

Same. And I use all of the starter frames.

 

I'm going to guess that the person you were talking about really did have bad gear and was most likely with a low rank.

 

 I've been playing Volt main since CB and no one has ever complained to me about it.

 

And every one knows Excaliber and Mag have a great 4 ability. 

Idk, mags cast time for her 4th ability is quite long (granted you could use natural talent) but also the damage is magnetic, which in grinner and infested missions, scales not as well.

[-Appa-]

There's a huge difference between a level 25 Mag and a level 30 Mag, but part of the problem with power creep which people forget is that it widens the gap between noob and "acceptable". There was a time when newer players could get away with fighting in Ceres or Eris without needing to have a Soma or Marelok.

^^This. But I still have to counter it (sorry :3 ), fair enough mag does not scale well against 2 factions (Grinner and Infested),  But Excalibur and Volt, are both good frames (still super jump and maybe slash dash and overload needs more tweaking) ;)

[nickelshark]

I used to get a lot of flak as I main Excalibur. But since javelin's buff people haven't been saying much now that Excalibur can nuke. In fact I have been seeing more and more Excaliburs as of late. I personally do not judge a player by their frame of choice. In fact if I see a high ranked player MR 10+ with a starter frame I'm waiting for a real good show of skill.

Edited February 3, 2015 by nickelshark

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to General Discussion.

[xicx]

i luv mag her pull is so cool and shes fast  i just need to parkour more with her and who cares what other thinks

[Shy0]

personally i don't care what frame you play with as long as you contribute somehow. what i can't stand are leechers and people entering high level missions (i'm talking planets like pluto, ceres, eris) with rank 0 frames who can't be bothered to slap an aura on and at least have some survivability mod equipped.

[-Appa-]

This connotation is even more present with weapons like a Braton or anything not top-tier... :/

 

If I had the time, I'd max a Cronus,put formae & spread confusion towards those who think like that! :D

I did exactly the same with  the tigris and shotguns are soo looked down upon same as cernos (the design is jaw-dropping) but the damage spread is just too much to impact, so not as effective against Grinner, Infested, and Corrupted :/ but Maxed and formaed it, sucks point strike only brings crit chance to 85% ish :/

[-Appa-]

Moved to General Discussion.

 

Thank yoooou :3

 

I used to get a lot of flak as I main Excalibur. But since javelin's buff people haven't been saying much now that Excalibur can nuke. In fact I have been seeing more and more Excaliburs as of late. I personally do not judge a player by their frame of choice. In fact if I see a high ranked player MR 10+ with a starter frame I'm waiting for a real good show of skill.

 

Real good show of skill, But yet most Excalibur's I see now in late game are "Press 4 to win" Which to me is not skill XD but I also do see people still use radial blind, with melee, i heard its quite good ;) Also heard about the super jump and heavy impact combo (just to fun :3)

 

i luv mag her pull is so cool and shes fast  i just need to parkour more with her and who cares what other thinks

*Love*:3 But Im glad I found someone that likes mag, I often think mag has a bad taste in warfrmae, and idk why, just the magnetic damage i suppose, but really keep playing her, maybe ill see another mag played after all (And not ones spamming Shield polarize)

[-Appa-]

personally i don't care what frame you play with as long as you contribute somehow. what i can't stand are leechers and people entering high level missions (i'm talking planets like pluto, ceres, eris) with rank 0 frames who can't be bothered to slap an aura on and at least have some survivability mod equipped.

I do agree, but with the mag I found while playing using a synoid gammacor, I don't see how she could not of brought sth to the table ;)

[Sixty5]

The people that look down on starter frames will look down on anything that isn't an "optimal" composition

Best advice I can give you is to ignore them and play what you want

[Rakshal]

I don't personally get this stigma since I play Valkyr all the time but I have seen it happen. It is stupid in my opinion to judge a player right off the bat by their equipment and not by their skill.

[geninrising]

The reasoning for such biased attitudes towards frames is the fact that many frames have no abilities that are useful in long defense or survivals. As much as DE would refuse to admit players have a sort of self imposed WF tiering in place. Said tiering system indicates a frames value based on how deep into infinite content said frame is useful and a worthy addition to the squad. In late game survival/defensive missions Volt sits at about mid tier based on his Shield alone as every other skill is not very worthwhile. You can argue that his speed skill is awesome for melee but then the point must be broached that melee is nearly worthless after a certain point and is complete suicide in later times. As far as a Mag is concerned she literally has no redeeming qualities in deep infinite content. Shield polarize is a good scaling damage skill however it will only affect shielded targets and damage those around them. With the inclusion of another corpus shielded enemy into the void this should have increased it's potential but lo and behold said unit is immune to powers. As far as crush is concerned it is not viable as nukes always fall off before anything else due to scaling.

 

In this instance we must look at what makes a top tier frame. Infinite usability of powers that MEAN something. Loki Radial Disarm=worth. Nyx Chaos=worth, Nova's M prime=worth, Banshee's Sonar=Worth. These abilities all have something in common and it is clear why they are top tier. They all work precisely the same regardless of enemy levels and provide a massive value per cast ratio to the party. Disarmed targets cannot shoot you=win. Confused targets will help kill their friends=win, up to 1,000% bonus damage=win, 2x damage and a decent slow=win.

 

If DE wants to get out of the "Tiers" that they themselves have brought into being due to design implementations then they need to revamp various Warframe's kits to ensure they all have some kind of scaling value to make them a worthy addition to any squad. When I say revamp I do not mean add more bandaids. I mean make changes that are better than the Nekros and Ember changes. Make them worth a slot on a team for more reason than fun otherwise this will constantly continue.

[spybot121]

Volt really is a perfectly ballanced, and i do agree, but I also use him as more of a gunslinger, aka shock to stun, speed, for just mobility (dat obex tho) and electric shield for well damage and safety, but idk maybe overload needs tweaking ;)

I use volt ALOT but the only downfall i find is that her casting for Overload is slow

by this i mean the wave that follows 

I would run missions with an excalibur ally and by the time his swords reaches the room walls my overload hasnt even made a distance of 10m

 

Overload does not have significant status procs like Nova's Molecular prime

Except chained damage

Thus an improvement could be overload being instant like miasma (Saryn) i think volt would be more reliable and balanced

 

Also just to point out with the right mods any weapon can become HIGHLY reliable.

For example my furis is quite weak but i added the new loka augment and now it is something i would bring with quite often.

(-with mods i get 40 gained health back per shot from life steal aug. 

and 1000 corrosive AOE with meter filled) 

[Rakshal]

I use volt ALOT but the only downfall i find is that her casting for Overload is slow...

*his*

[(PSN)theelix]

This stigmatising just doesn't happen on PS4. Well, not as often as it seems to on PC.

We always check MR's first and foremost, and then we look at their gear. If they're using a squishy frame and some MK1's without anything good enough to hold them up, we tell them they need to get out. If they bring at least one thing that can decently kill we're totally ok with it.

 

The only time I've ever really heard someone call someone out was in-game; when they start doing bad. We tell them they're bad when they're actually bad.

[(PSN)PHILWIGGLYBITS]

This stigmatising just doesn't happen on PS4. Well, not as often as it seems to on PC.

We always check MR's first and foremost, and then we look at their gear. If they're using a squishy frame and some MK1's without anything good enough to hold them up, we tell them they need to get out. If they bring at least one thing that can decently kill we're totally ok with it.

 

The only time I've ever really heard someone call someone out was in-game; when they start doing bad. We tell them they're bad when they're actually bad.

 I'm mastery 15 now and counting (hopefully), and when I'm bored I try to help new players get into warframe, because honestly, I struggled a lot when  first started playing. I see these players having the exact same issues I had, maybe worse given all the updated mechanics and enemies etc. I think someone needs to make an in depth guide for new players on how to get to a playable level, when the game actually starts to become extremely fun to play. I think that instead of making mockeries of NEW players, that we should instead attempt to assist them, because it's one thing to enjoy a game like most of us have warframe, but never underestimate the value of a decent community of players, who are all interested in the same things. The best thing about this, is that one of those mastery 0s I offered to help in region chat, became a good friend of mine and is steadily levelling up as I did, and beginning to love the game as I do.