R5 Cores Are Still Nerfed After Hotfix 15.14...

[Fleuretty]

So the only time we need this mythical 528 cores is if we want to *absolutely max* the mod, the mod that should be a rare and special event to max? And to just get great utility out of it, we only need a couple of dozen?

 

That makes... SENSE.

 

As for those upset it's not in t4s anymore?  Y'know, some of us actually want to be able to get ducats, you know, those things you need to acquire these primed mods in the first place? There's nothing worse than heading to the only place to find ducats(the void!) and coming home with armloads of upgrade fodder.

 

MATH INCOMING:

Assuming that most people just bring primed mods to R9, that's 264 cores. Now, people who go to T4S to farm solely for cores (high MR people who don't need rotation B/C rewards or those with enough keys to spare) will usually exit at 30min, while others will usually exit at 40min, which is the standard minimum for T4S most parties run with. With the old core drop rate of 77%, that's 15 cores per run on average, which gives us a total of 528min / 704min. (for 30min/40min runs respectively)

 

Eventually players will decide to get that last rank up anyway, an endeavor that'll take  another 264 cores. The grand total is now roughly 18 hr / 23 hr of T4S to max out a primed mod. This excludes RNG things like getting prime parts from rotation A as well as the actual T4S key hunt. Honestly this does make sense: 18-23 hours worth of grind to max out the highest-end mods in the game is a fair grind. However...

 

...with the drop rate of cores halved, the grind literally DOUBLED. This is completely opposite of DE's intentions to 'reduce the grind.' It doesn't make sense.

 

As for ducats, look at the prime part drop locations and tell me that T4S is the only place to get ducats. Every single void mission drops ducats, and if you only care for the endless missions that give you the most rewards out of each key spent, then there's T1-3 survival/defense. The R5 core packs of T4S are its niche, just like how Lephantis/Cambria are for farming neurodes, or how dark sector defense is for farming credits.

 

FInally, you know what's worse than going into T4S to find ducats and coming home with loads of valuable, usable upgrade fodder for future use? Going into T4S and coming home with loads of Orokin Cells. Excluding cosmetic helms, forma and potatoes, you only need 192 orokin cells to build every item that needs them, so obviously there will come a point where you don't need them anymore. Besides, people who actually aim to farm orokin cells will be much more efficient farming either Ruk (doubles up as credit farming) or Kiste. (doubles up as weapon/frame grinding)

 

If DE is absolutely hellbent on keeping the core drop rate in T4S at half of what they were, then they should at least replace the orokin cells with something that's worth the extra grind. (like, i dunno, a pack of 3 R5 cores?)

 

========

 

now for some data:

 

 

all pics taken today. The 25% rate is accurate enough by the looks of it. A rate of 5 cores every 20min worth of survival (2 runs of 10min each) gives us around 35 hours to gather 528 cores, which is just as much as doing T4S with its nerfed drop rate. The only difference is that we don't get ducats during the same amount of time spent.

 

I kept the kill counts visible to show the average enemy count for a 10min mission in solo survival. I wasn't playing like a newbie running around all over the place either, this was basic camping at the very beginning of the mission, coz if i didn't i'll end up having to activate a capsule at 2.5min due to lack of LS drops.

 

In each run i had at most 2 capsules to spare after 10min, while in the runs with the least kills there were none left since i had to use them all to prevent failing the mission. That's how crappy the drop rate is in solo. There was even a time in Palus Pluto when the spawns completely disappeared for at least a minute while i was waiting in a medium-sized room with all doors accessible.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Xarugas

[Dunkingmachine]

 

General Discussion isn't the place for feedback threads, please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

 

 

Are you kidding me??? After 3 days of mods and devs reading this thread, you NOW decide it's in the wrong section? The "fix" didn't calm down your stupid playerbase, so now we just shut them up by moving the important threads where complaints are voiced to sections noone reads? Brilliant move, really. This is NOT feedback! This is a severe issue that concerns a big part of the player base and we need to raise public awareness! That means the thread HAS to be in the most read section. But you know that, of  course. Actions speak for themselves...

 

And judgding by the large amount of upvotes the "fix" got, there are enough sheep here who just need to hear the words "rare cores" and "hotifx" in one dev post to shut up satisfied without thinking for themselves. But don't take us all for stupid. Most of us very well see what's going on here. PLEASE don't f**k this up.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Dunkingmachine

[fatpig84]

Moar cores

[TeaBegging]

Before adding these huge game breaking changes wouldn't it be better if you could poll it, and see if the community agrees with these kind off changes ?

I mean this just upsets the entire community and some either quit by these changes.

I think verry big changes should be polled. I guess thats what the community would think aswell. Since we are in the year off ''Quality''.

Also promising those quality and less grind at the begin off the year kinda backfired on you guys. Next time be more carefull with these promises. Because the community takes you guys seriously and have big expectations. 
 

Hopefully you will revert those core nerfs or come with a better solution that really reduces the grind.

[Fleuretty]

Before adding these huge game breaking changes wouldn't it be better if you could poll it, and see if the community agrees with these kind off changes ?

I mean this just upsets the entire community and some either quit by these changes.

I think verry big changes should be polled. I guess thats what the community would think aswell. Since we are in the year off ''Quality''.

 

they probably never really thought about nerfing R5 core drop rates as a 'game breaking change.' I mean, in the past they did nerf 3 frames out of a twitch reaction to stop players from abusing syndicate rep gain, even though the nerfs literally killed off 3 frames in the process.

 

Since DE is constantly adding new content instead of making current content less grindy, i think their overall notion of 'the grind' is that players do the same thing over and over again instead of varying their game experience with other content. Assuming this train of thought is correct, then to DE, adding content basically means giving players different things to do than the current repetitive loop, thus to them it's a form of 'reducing the grind.'

 

Meanwhile, the players' definition of grinding is spending a lot of time doing the same thing in order to achieve a certain long-term goal, may it be mastery rank, syndicate standings, or in the current case, maxing out high-rank mods by farming R5 cores. So instead of looking at ideas like reducing the amount of fusion energy it takes to max out mods or making R5 cores drop in larger/more common packs, both of which will directly (and immensely) 'reduce the grind,' what they did was gave players a different set of missions to grind in so that they don't exclusively do T4S for cores. (same goes for halving syndicate caps so that people actually do missions other than interception, but that has more to do with playing WF like a 1-button phone game than it is with grinding)

 

This doesn't reduce the amount of grinding a player has to do to achieve their goals, it just changed the grind so players don't stick to a single mission (T4S) to achieve their goals. The time spent grinding will still be the same, (though in the current case it actually doubled lol) it's just that the place where people will grind now is different/varied. DE has to understand this very concept before they can come up with ideas that can actually reduce the time spent grinding, if that's really something they want to pull off.

 

I'm not trying to put words in DE's mouth  with all these assumptions, but with the past few updates that had loads of new content to make things varied yet no form of making the grind any easier/lesser, this is what i think their concept of the grind is.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Xarugas

[ViSo36]

A good solution: Stop playing Warframe, thats it, when a game get thats weird nerfs and no one is happy with them, people start lo leave the game, when there is no people playing the game they will eat what they did.

[Husla]

Before adding these huge game breaking changes wouldn't it be better if you could poll it, and see if the community agrees with these kind off changes ?

I mean this just upsets the entire community and some either quit by these changes.

I think verry big changes should be polled. I guess thats what the community would think aswell. Since we are in the year off ''Quality''.

Also promising those quality and less grind at the begin off the year kinda backfired on you guys. Next time be more carefull with these promises. Because the community takes you guys seriously and have big expectations. 

 

Hopefully you will revert those core nerfs or come with a better solution that really reduces the grind.

Never understood why we don't have polls more often, they did it to syndicates even tho it had terrible options. At least then we can have somewhat of say in a civilized thread rather than hundreds of smaller ones only with rants.

[Dunkingmachine]

Never understood why we don't have polls more often, they did it to syndicates even tho it had terrible options. At least then we can have somewhat of say in a civilized thread rather than hundreds of smaller ones only with rants.

 

Yeah, that's why official polls are really dangerous. They might give us one with 3 terrible choices where the least terrible will win, but once that poll is finished this one terrible choice is officially "what the community wants" and case closed.

[sp1r1tcrush3r]

Yeah, that's why official polls are really dangerous. They might give us one with 3 terrible choices where the least terrible will win, but once that poll is finished this one terrible choice is officially "what the community wants" and case closed.

Hmm. I remember dem keys from syndicates. NOTHX. No moar polls

[archyzzy]

A good solution: Stop playing Warframe, thats it, when a game get thats weird nerfs and no one is happy with them, people start lo leave the game, when there is no people playing the game they will eat what they did.

Our online in clan fell from 25+ to 5+

[CrazyCatLad]

I think I might be the only one not freaking out about this R5 Core fiasco since I don't want to buy into the Prime Mod BS.

[Nerevar22g]

I got rare5 core pack only twice in 6 hours:(

[Kurnuttaja]

What is going on now is a huge fusion core creep, with primed mods we need more and more r5 while common and uncommon cores have became complete trash. Even getting a single r5 core is a trash reward, we need 5 or maybe even more per 5 min and this is only getting worse with more primed mods being added. Maybe instead of increasing drop rate of r5, they should reduce the cost to rank up primed mods? Like make all the bad primed mods only have 5 ranks while good ones like primed conti can keep 10 ranks.

[iKhaan]

Totally agree with OP.
i think R5 Bundle must be dropped from all rotation "hard" mission:

1. Rare in C (shares space with the keys or mods from event mods, one-two per mission, from different pack)

2. Common B (shares space with the keys)

3. Commone A (shares space with 3-Uncommon Cores Bundle, like unlucky drop)

 

Or for each full circle (20 minutes) Rare Cores Budnle should be increased by 5.

Example:

5 cores on 5\10 minutes, 10 on 25\30, 15 on 45\50, and etc. With drop chance like we have now.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Atilla

[(PSN)robertgk2017]

Why not legendary fusion cores?  not the 1 core = max mod cores  balanced cores that dropped on occasion.

 

from what i gather, no evidence to support this

 

common core does a certain amount of mod leveling "energy"

uncommon does 2x common

rare does 2x uncommon

legendary would just do 2x rare?  idk if this would be unbalanced or not but its an idea and it could work

 

if common were levels 0-10

uncommon 10-20

rare 20-30

legendary would be 30-40   30-35ish in reality for pluto and ceres

 

 

edit: this one is rather wishful thinking i guess but  a fifth rarity?  like platinum that did 2x legendary and would be for 40-50 if that ever comes around or is dynamically added to endless missions once you hit those levels of enemis in the mission??

 

edit2: really should be in fan concepts but this platinum rarity could have regular mods too like  legendary goes 3 and 5 to 10   platinum would 10 to 15? idk that would be too ridiculous to level up i would imagine

Edited February 12, 2015 by (PS4)robertgk2017

[Cloud]

Or for each full circle (20 minutes) Rare Cores Budnle should be increased by 5.

Example:

5 cores on 5\10 minutes, 10 on 25\30, 15 on 45\50, and etc. With drop chance like we have now.

 

 

This would be a great idea, in this way u will not reward the farm but the ability, and people will not just rush keys  doing max 20mins, but they would be encouraged to reach more high difficulties in the match , reaching 60+ mins for a very good prize.

 

 At the moment no one wants to stay more in the missions , because he/she knows that in the end the prize which he takes at 65 mins may be the same of the 5 mins one, and THIS IS WRONG ! Who would face a much higher difficulty knowing that he could get the same award of the lowest level ?

Edited February 12, 2015 by LordCloud00

[GeneralArmchair]

I honestly have no idea what they're doing. They want to reduce the grind but then they increase it. Simple solution though.

Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:

[REMOVE] - 2000 Credit Cache Reward

[REMOVE] - 2500 Credit Cache Reward

[REMOVE] - Uncommon Fusion Core

[REMOVE] - One Rare Fusion Core

- Steady Hands

- Stabilizer

- Power Throw

- Rare 5 Pack

Result: Rare 5 pack now has a 25% chance of dropping.

Removed credit rewards, we can just increase the amount of credits you earn from a mission.

Rest of the cores: It should be level 0-10 survival missions [COMMON CORES ONLY], 10-20 [uNCOMMON CORES ONLY], and 20+ [RARE CORES ONLY].

This isn't hard. DE is just messing with us.

they don't want to decrease the grind. They want to increase it. That's what their actions show.

They merely say they want to decrease grind because enough people are naive enough to believe them.

[Lichcontract]

Totally agree with OP.

i think R5 Bundle must be dropped from all rotation "hard" mission:

1. Rare in C (shares space with the keys or mods from event mods, one-two per mission, from different pack)

2. Common B (shares space with the keys)

3. Commone A (shares space with 3-Uncommon Cores Bundle, like unlucky drop)

 

Or for each full circle (20 minutes) Rare Cores Budnle should be increased by 5.

Example:

5 cores on 5\10 minutes, 10 on 25\30, 15 on 45\50, and etc. With drop chance like we have now.

 

This. Assuming the drop rate is actually around 25% while not nearly as good as 77% in T4S, not only would this reward player skill but it would also reward veterans who have high level weapons they've spent multiple forma and hours into, that can take them to longer game play. It also caters for new players by way of providing incentive for them to unlock the star chart instead of doing T4S, it also gives a breather for them so when they do decide they want to max out the essential mods they can do so without too much hideous grind because as they get better and can last longer they will get rewarded with a nice sum of cores by the end.

 

That being said DE do need to realize RNG isn't exactly the best route to go with these things I like the fact that they are indeed actually trying e.g. the earnable potato in Stolen Dreams but realistically they need to change their view on grind.

Since DE is constantly adding new content instead of making current content less grindy, i think their overall notion of 'the grind' is that players do the same thing over and over again instead of varying their game experience with other content. Assuming this train of thought is correct, then to DE, adding content basically means giving players different things to do than the current repetitive loop, thus to them it's a form of 'reducing the grind.'

 

Meanwhile, the players' definition of grinding is spending a lot of time doing the same thing in order to achieve a certain long-term goal, may it be mastery rank, syndicate standings, or in the current case, maxing out high-rank mods by farming R5 cores. So instead of looking at ideas like reducing the amount of fusion energy it takes to max out mods or making R5 cores drop in larger/more common packs, both of which will directly (and immensely) 'reduce the grind,' what they did was gave players a different set of missions to grind in so that they don't exclusively do T4S for cores. (same goes for halving syndicate caps so that people actually do missions other than interception, but that has more to do with playing WF like a 1-button phone game than it is with grinding)

 

This doesn't reduce the amount of grinding a player has to do to achieve their goals, it just changed the grind so players don't stick to a single mission (T4S) to achieve their goals. The time spent grinding will still be the same, (though in the current case it actually doubled lol) it's just that the place where people will grind now is different/varied. DE has to understand this very concept before they can come up with ideas that can actually reduce the time spent grinding, if that's really something they want to pull off.

 

I'm not trying to put words in DE's mouth  with all these assumptions, but with the past few updates that had loads of new content to make things varied yet no form of making the grind any easier/lesser, this is what i think their concept of the grind is.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Lichcontract

[Jukantos]

This still does not fix the CORE issue at hand (see what i did there).

You effectively cut off the maximum core farming effienciency, and while i absolutely support your desire to make keyless coregrinding a viable strategy, especially for newer players who have a lot more mods to fill up, you STILL haven't adressed the decapitation at the top end of core farming efficiency, which we quite frankly desperately need restored at least to its former strength considering the mods we have to fill with these things are getting more and more expensive to fill up.

At this rate, 25% on rotation A, if i were to do 10-minute runs, aiming exclusively at these cores, i'd need an average of 20 minutes for one pack of cores. And since i need 106 packs of cores for a primed mod, we're looking at 2120 minutes of playtime to max out a single mod. That's roughly 35 HOURS of playtime!

And it's not even HALF of the average of 15-20 cores per 30 minutes i was previously able to acquire on T4 Survival, meaning you still want me to spend more than double the amount of time, which i simply can not, and neither want to do.

The introduction of cores elsewhere for newer players is muchly appreciated. But you HAVE to restore the high-end grinding efficiency to its pre-nerf state if upgrading primed mods without massive platinum-investments into fusion cores packs is supposed to be possible somehow (because trading them isn't an option either, considering their 8000 credits trade-tax, which should maybe be lowered if they're needed in so much higher quantities, maybe they should even be tradeable stacked).

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

I'm a ps4 player and someone told be about this so I had to look into it. Unless they implement some amazing new end-game content this may be the end of warframe for me. I don't say that as whining or protest. I say that because there is nothing in this game that I need (save for the new mods). And the only thing I enjoy playing is t4 survival. It's the only mission mode that challenges me and coming out with a decent amount of cores makes it seem less monotonous. Less of a waste of time. I don't want to leave warframe, but I'm getting burnt out and decisions like this absolutely puzzle me.

[injustible]

I'm a ps4 player and someone told be about this so I had to look into it. Unless they implement some amazing new end-game content this may be the end of warframe for me. I don't say that as whining or protest. I say that because there is nothing in this game that I need (save for the new mods). And the only thing I enjoy playing is t4 survival. It's the only mission mode that challenges me and coming out with a decent amount of cores makes it seem less monotonous. Less of a waste of time. I don't want to leave warframe, but I'm getting burnt out and decisions like this absolutely puzzle me.

They said that Raids are coming. That's "When they are ready to be released, they will be released.", or in other words, no ETA yet.

[[DE]Rebecca]

Thread locked, derails, aggression, people treating other people like Valkyr treats a Ancient Infested :(  Cannot go on with this type of discourse, it deviates too far from what's needed for constructive posting. 

Of course the following is frustrating:

-Having nothing have to left to do in the game except max Primed Mods.

-Having Primed Mods require Ducats to obtain (or Plat through trade)
-Having good Rare Core Spot changed to good Orokin Cell spot.

-See a pile of Orokin Cells build up and up that you can't use because you've built everything (or at least built everything you've wanted to). 

-Now only 'less good' Rare Core Spots exist, and they no longer dovetail with Ducat farming.

If I were looking at a bigger picture, I'd stop right at the first bullet point I listed:

-Having nothing have to left to do in the game except max Primed Mods.

I'd try and work out new goodness as fast as possible to change that.

However, that is a much slower process and doesn't fix the fact that things aren't 'as good as before in the Void' for Core-Focused missions. I honestly don't know if they will be in the Void, but will return to Dev with the overnight data and see where it goes from here. Ultimately the decision is still open to discussion so any changes/progress are still possible.

Regarding the hypothesis/test of my 5 minutes of Survival, that was simply to see if the correct High Level rewards were hooked up on any advertised nodes. Upon seeing the x5 Rare Cores in 5 minutes, the question of 'is this using the right tables' was answered, and onward I moved to the real problem which was 'where is it broken'. As you can see, that provided a laundry list of broken (~11).

 

My Science Professor would have retroactively failed me if I had used 5 minutes of testing to prove anything beyond the actual intent (are the correct tables hooked up to Node X).