Help Continue To Fix Nyx... (These Are All Comments Now)

[o_HiTMaN_o]

LIVESTREAM #7

and nothing Yet about Nyx ...

but i will keep asking for fixes ... until the LOVELY Devs make them !!

[Mazikeen]

I'm pretty fine with Mind Control and Chaos the way they are.

 

However, beside their strength/usefulness, I do not find Psychic Bolts and Absorb to really fit Nyx's "personality". I mean, Nyx is all about mental suggestion, and these 2 powers do not really feel psychic in the way they work.

 

The kind of power I could imagine would be something like:

 

Psychic Assassins:

Make X targets believe that there is a Tenno assassinating them. The mental suggestion is so strong that their wounded minds induce injuries on their bodies (somatization).

Visually, it could look like Chaos, in a different color (red for instance).

Could work as a damage over time, could have a stun component, whatever.

 

Collective Suicide:

Send an mental order to all ennemies in range and forces them to attempt suicide.

It could be a self destruction for machines and infested runners, a bullet in the head for humanoids with weapons, going crazy and crushing their head on the ground/the walls for others, etc.

 

It's just samples of what I mean by psychic/mental powers...

Edited June 5, 2013 by Mazikeen

[Keltik0ne]

I'm enjoying my Nyx still. Admittedly, I only slot MC and Chaos (for single/mass CC purposes) and I'm wondering what polarity slots to get her now the kind daily log in has gifted me a few forma, but loadsa fun.

 

My Loki decoy seems to still work too, though only tested in a few missions so far.

 

*edit*

 

Half the frames ingame are currently lacking in the skills department, made all the more obvious by how good the new one's are.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Keltik0ne

[ZekeTiki]

I have a suggestion for MC. The controlled enemy should see you as an alley and everyone else a enemy and if there are no enemies around then they should shoot themselves which may or may not actually kill them. If it doesn't kill them then the MC goes away. 

[Strozza]

I play Nyx more than any other warframe by far right now, although I've tried about 6 others thus far. None of them quite compares--Nyx is still my favorite warframe. When I first saw the OP several days ago, I thought the suggestions were OTT and unnecessary, but I really like the changes I've seen to your suggestions, so you now have my support. Nyx's only real problem is reliability right now, so small changes that the devs can impliment quickly and test (this is a beta after all) are great.

 

With about 120 hours played as Nyx alone (therabouts), I think mind control is effective simply on the merits of its crowd control abilities, but I wouldn't say no to the controlled enemy attacking others more reliably. It seems to vary from enemy to enemy, so I'm not sure what needs to happen there. For anyone who can't find a use for it, try casting it on a tough mob, wait a sec for ALL the enemies to bunch around it, and then have Rhino or Vauban run in there and do their thing.

 

Psychic bolts is a great idea, does great damage, looks cool, has a fun mechanic, and unfortunately fails agianst a wall or floor a lot. Making it go through walls would be, I hope, an easy fix which would instantly earn this ability a slot in my build. Given that I use streamline, flow, and a few energy recharge artifacts in defense missions, seeing it's power cost go any lower would boggle my mind. Already it costs me 40 to cast out of my rapidly replenishing pool of 412 energy, and yet it can pinpoint targets all the way across Kiliken.  Unnecessary to make it cost less imho, but again I wouldn't say no.

 

Crowd control blows my dang mind. It's such a rediculously effective ability that I can't imagine back when it had no time limit. This ability needs absolutely zero help as it is, especially when combined with mind control.

 

Absorb is another great idea with an unreliable payoff. If it went through walls and accepted melee damage, it would be perfect. Even despite the occasional fizzle, I still use it for cool factor and temporary invuln alone.

 

TLDR: The OP changes sound great. I'm really happy to see some reasonable and intelligent balance suggestions developing.

Remember: Love your devs and they will love you back! Thanks DE.

[o_HiTMaN_o]

I'm pretty fine with Mind Control and Chaos the way they are.

 

However, beside their strength/usefulness, I do not find Psychic Bolts and Absorb to really fit Nyx's "personality". I mean, Nyx is all about mental suggestion, and these 2 powers do not really feel psychic in the way they work.

 

The kind of power I could imagine would be something like:

 

Psychic Assassins:

Make X targets believe that there is a Tenno assassinating them. The mental suggestion is so strong that their wounded minds induce injuries on their bodies (somatization).

Visually, it could look like Chaos, in a different color (red for instance).

Could work as a damage over time, could have a stun component, whatever.

 

Collective Suicide:

Send an mental order to all ennemies in range and forces them to attempt suicide.

It could be a self destruction for machines and infested runners, a bullet in the head for humanoids with weapons, going crazy and crushing their head on the ground/the walls for others, etc.

 

It's just samples of what I mean by psychic/mental powers...

well bro ur ideas are cool but i disagree .. why ?

Because we want the Devs to Fix the abilites they really Fix Nyx so much .. they are jsut great .. but Fix abilites like what is written in the thread and it will be great ... no need for making NEW abilites .. and if they did .. they must make this to all the frames .. we are talking "FIX NYX"

i hope my idea was clear .. and Thx

[SnokyoDrift]

1 God tier ability - literally God Mode. Stops enemies in their tracks and commands them to attack their closest target for 20 seconds.

1 High tier ability - better than both Loki's Decoy and Saryn's Molt after their respective nerfs

1 Normal tier ability - panic button that delays death for a significant amount of time. Can do incredible damage if used intelligently.

1 Trash tier ability - nothing new; everyone has a trash tier ability

 

I don't see any problem with Nyx. If anything should be done to her, Chaos's PBAoE style should be nerfed to target area, Absorb should have more reliable damage in all situations, and Psychic bolts could also be made cheaper and more reliable.

[Mazikeen]

well bro ur ideas are cool but i disagree .. why ?Because we want the Devs to Fix the abilites they really Fix Nyx so much .. they are jsut great .. but Fix abilites like what is written in the thread and it will be great ... no need for making NEW abilites .. and if they did .. they must make this to all the frames .. we are talking "FIX NYX"i hope my idea was clear .. and Thx

I knew I shouldn't have added examples, that it would be misunderstood...

I was just trying to explain why I feel that Psychic Bolt and Absorb do not fit Nyx. Imho, you can fix the numbers, but these abilities will still feel out of place.

I cannot help thinking a bolt is not psychic in any way :)

[R3leaZ]

I knew I shouldn't have added examples, that it would be misunderstood...

I was just trying to explain why I feel that Psychic Bolt and Absorb do not fit Nyx. Imho, you can fix the numbers, but these abilities will still feel out of place.

I cannot help thinking a bolt is not psychic in any way :)

Psychokinesis? They do seem to fit to me.

 

Psychic Bolts are bolts fired using psychokinesis (Or energy controlled with her mind to become destructive bolts.) and Absorb is Nyx meditating so she absorbs any damage and make it backfire.

Edited June 6, 2013 by R3leaZ

[Keiiken]

1 God tier ability - literally God Mode. Stops enemies in their tracks and commands them to attack their closest target for 20 seconds.

1 High tier ability - better than both Loki's Decoy and Saryn's Molt after their respective nerfs

1 Normal tier ability - panic button that delays death for a significant amount of time. Can do incredible damage if used intelligently.

1 Trash tier ability - nothing new; everyone has a trash tier ability

 

I don't see any problem with Nyx. If anything should be done to her, Chaos's PBAoE style should be nerfed to target area, Absorb should have more reliable damage in all situations, and Psychic bolts could also be made cheaper and more reliable.

 

 

Big disagree on nerfing the radius of chaos. It does no damage on its own and for the first few seconds the enemies are stunned so will not attack each other.

Chaos is not one of the abilities Nyx players have issue with and if anything is one of the most used ones for CC. We wouldnt have to spam it so much if the mechanics of the Nyx's other skills were buffed or changed.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Keiiken

[o_HiTMaN_o]

Fix Nyx's abilites

except CHAOS .. THEY NERFED THE HELL OUT OF IT ALREADY !!! whats wrong with you people !!!

if u see a good/not-bad abilty u start saying NERF NERF NERF ... u must fell shame ( to any 1 who want to nerf chaso >> AGAIN << )

Edited June 6, 2013 by o_HiTMaN_o

[HeatHunter]

the radius of chaos is the biggest AoE Radius I have seen so far in this game...

 

max out a stretch mod and try it yourself :P

 

also on higher level defense missions this ability does a lot more damage than your weapons do, just due to the fact, that higher level enemys (90+) do a lot of damage...

 

The 3-4 seconds stun in the beginning is just to get away before the party starts, so you won't get hurt in the crossfire...

 

So yes, I think theres a Problem with the radius of Chaos (at least if it stays the 75 Energy ability)

 

btw. that doesn't mean that the radius should be nerved by 50%...

It should just be more in a line with other AoE Effects like Banshees soundquake...

 

Edit:

Fix Nyx's abilites

except CHAOS .. THEY NERFED THE HELL OUT OF IT ALREADY !!! whats wrong with you people !!!

if u see a good/not-bad abilty u start saying NERF NERF NERF ... u must fell shame ( to any 1 who want to nerf chaso >> AGAIN << )

 

No I as a Nyx player do not feel ashame for calling for a small nerv (radius OR energy cost).

I feel that the ability is too strong atm...

 

The game is far too easy for most peole who play a decent time (still fun, but I whish there was more of a challenge)

 

If you buff the other abilities of her without taking something, you'll end up having a godlike frame...

balancing this against the other frames would be a hard task...

 

btw. I don't want a godlike frame, I want a challenge ;)

(I could play pluto without mods to have a challenge [maybe I'll do], but I think this is not considered as intended  ;))

 

btw2.

You can't fix something thats not broken, balancing is the right word here...

Rebecca prooved in the last stream, that Nyx Ulti has some serious problems, thats a bug, that needs fixing.

Anything else is a blancing issue ;)

Edited June 6, 2013 by HeatHunter

[Keiiken]

the radius of chaos is the biggest AoE Radius I have seen so far in this game...

 

max out a stretch mod and try it yourself :P

 

also on higher level defense missions this ability does a lot more damage than your weapons do, just due to the fact, that higher level enemys (90+) do a lot of damage...

 

The 3-4 seconds stun in the beginning is just to get away before the party starts, so you won't get hurt in the crossfire...

 

So yes, I think theres a Problem with the radius of Chaos (at least if it stays the 75 Energy ability)

 

btw. that doesn't mean that the radius should be nerved by 50%...

It should just be more in a line with other AoE Effects like Banshees soundquake...

 

 

Yes the enemy damage scales with their level but you also fail to factor in their defense does as well. So they are more dangerous to the player but not so to each other.

The large Radius is to make up for the fact the skill does no damage. Even with Maxed out continuity and stretch mods the enemies do not completely wipe each other out or give you thew chance to wipe them all out.You can't compare this AoE to others that do damage directly to the enemy.

[HeatHunter]

Yes the enemy damage scales with their level but you also fail to factor in their defense does as well. So they are more dangerous to the player but not so to each other.

The large Radius is to make up for the fact the skill does no damage. Even with Maxed out continuity and stretch mods the enemies do not completely wipe each other out or give you thew chance to wipe them all out.You can't compare this AoE to others that do damage directly to the enemy.

 

So lets look at the other frames AoE damage abilities then

 

Ash - Blade Storm - 12 Enemys - 100 Energy

Banshee - Soundquake - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy

Ember - Fire Blast - all Enemys in range - 75 Energy (small sized AoE)

Ember - World On Fire - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy

Excalibur - Radial Javelin - all Enemys Hit - 100 Energy

Frost - Avalanche - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy

Loki - does not Have a damage Ability - Radial disarm - all Enemys in Range - 100 Energy

Mag - Crush - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy

Rhino - Radial Blast - all Enemys in range - 75 Energy

Rhino - Rhino Stomp - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy

Saryn - Miasma - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy

Trinity - does not have a damage ability - Blessing - all friendlys on the map - 100 Energy

Vauban - Vortex - anything in range - 100 Energy (does no damage to friendlies)

Volt - Overload - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy

 

compared to Nyx:

Nyx - Chaos - all Enemys in range - 75 Energy

Nyx - Absorb - all Enemys in range - 100 Energy (some Problems with los and bugs)

 

so you still think Chaos is in line with the other abilities?

We could also compare all #3 abilities, but I think most of them are crap and Nyx get the most out of it ;)

 

I don't say Chaos is to strong, devs, destroy its usefulness ;)

I say make it more in a line with the other abilities. Making Chaos use 100 Energy won't hurt much I think, making the radius a bit smaller (e.g. make it the Radius of Banshees soundquake which is also not soo small...)

[Keiiken]

Like I said it can't be compared to the other AoEs that way because the mechanics are completely different.

And it definitely Absorb cannot be compared others because it does not affect the enemy it affect all damage aimed at Nyx regardless of the enemies distance, you could in theory consider its range infinite.

Making Chaos the range of Soundquake would nerf Nyx so hard as to be useless unless other changes are also done to balance.

[HeatHunter]

Like I said it can't be compared to the other AoEs that way because the mechanics are completely different.

And it definitely Absorb cannot be compared others because it does not affect the enemy it affect all damage aimed at Nyx regardless of the enemies distance, you could in theory consider its range infinite.

Making Chaos the range of Soundquake would nerf Nyx so hard as to be useless unless other changes are also done to balance.

 

I must admit, I overread it first time, my fault...

 

but you also missed out to give us your reason, why this ability is not comparable to other AoE's...

 

 

I think it can be compared in many ways, I compared it in energy cost and number of enemys affected...

(didn't use AoE Range, because it's not shown for all skills on the wiki)

 

 

the damage factor is not linear, so at some point your weapon does less damage than the enemys do to each other.

This point is different for each weapons due to the fact of weapon specific stats and mods (dmg, armor piercing,...) but you'll get to it ;)

 

This ability is not meant to kill, so theres no need that the enemys extinct each other, also you can cast it more than once ;)

 

Other Ultis won't kill higher mob's either, so whats the difference?

[o_HiTMaN_o]

Making Nyx's Chaos the same range of Banshee's sound Quacke ... i agree !!!

and yeah sorry about usingFIX .. Fix Chaos and rebalance everything xD

EDIT : after the last hotfix ... nothing except fixing Poer in use Bug ... srsly rebbeca .. srsly ?

Edited June 6, 2013 by o_HiTMaN_o

[Keiiken]

Basically

 

I must admit, I overread it first time, my fault...

 

but you also missed out to give us your reason, why this ability is not comparable to other AoE's...

 

 

I think it can be compared in many ways, I compared it in energy cost and number of enemys affected...

(didn't use AoE Range, because it's not shown for all skills on the wiki)

 

 

the damage factor is not linear, so at some point your weapon does less damage than the enemys do to each other.

This point is different for each weapons due to the fact of weapon specific stats and mods (dmg, armor piercing,...) but you'll get to it ;)

 

This ability is not meant to kill, so theres no need that the enemys extinct each other, also you can cast it more than once ;)

 

Other Ultis won't kill higher mob's either, so whats the difference?

 

The majority of the AoEs you are comparing it to do damage to the enemy directly and are not Crowd Control abilities. Rhino's Stomp renders enemies completely unable to attack while levitating (sitting ducks), Loki's, Radial Disarm is permanent.

 

I am not sure why you are mentioning weapon damage, I was specifically addressing the fact you said enemies do more damage at higher levels. I assumed you mean they kill each other quicker which is not the case as their defense scale with level too.

I also am not sure why you mention that you can cast it more than once. Yes you can spam it with streamline and focus but, most people want to maximize the range and they instinctively use stretch as well you will need to sacrifice mod slots for that reducing tankyness meanwhile chaos does not prevent you being attacked by enemies it just makes them as likely to attack each other as the Tenno, you have to wait for the previous cast to time-out unless all the enemies that were under the effect of chaos are killed.

I do not dispute that it has a huge range my point is it has that range for a reason and it should be more of a priority to fix other skills.

[SnokyoDrift]

Like I said it can't be compared to the other AoEs that way because the mechanics are completely different.

 

Rhino stomp stuns enemies in a smaller radius for 12 seconds with maxed continuity and cannot be used while it is active for 100 energy.

Chaos practically stuns enemies in a MUCH larger radius for 20 seconds without any mods and cannot be used while it is active for 75 energy.

 

Even after its duration nerf, Chaos remains the clear best CC ability in the game in range, cost, and duration.

 

 

There's nothing balanced about a skill that renders the majority of PvE combat elements moot. Enemies become docile targets that simply ask for bullets in their heads for more than double the duration of the next best CC skill.

[Keiiken]

Rhino stomp stuns enemies in a smaller radius for 12 seconds with maxed continuity and cannot be used while it is active for 100 energy.

Chaos practically stuns enemies in a MUCH larger radius for 20 seconds without any mods and cannot be used while it is active for 75 energy.

 

Even after its duration nerf, Chaos remains the clear best CC ability in the game in range, cost, and duration.

 

 

There's nothing balanced about a skill that renders the majority of PvE combat elements moot. Enemies become docile targets that simply ask for bullets in their heads for more than double the duration of the next best CC skill.

 

You say Chaos practically stuns the enemies but it does not for the entire duration of the ability the enemies are free to act they just have more targets and you can still be one. Rhino's Stomp completely immobilizes them allowing you to do whatever you want with impunity.

[o_HiTMaN_o]

I took another look at CHAOS .. and i found that the Range is great as it is ^_^

[R3leaZ]

You say Chaos practically stuns the enemies but it does not for the entire duration of the ability the enemies are free to act they just have more targets and you can still be one. Rhino's Stomp completely immobilizes them allowing you to do whatever you want with impunity.

Rhino's stomp is still dependent on player damage. While with Chaos you can cast and leave them alone for a while and prioritize you on something else. With Rhino Stomp if you dont kill the enemies fast you will still need to deal with the full power of the enemies while with Chaos they will have been weakened a lot. Chaos currently completely wins big time vs Rhino Stomp. While it is a 75 energy ability vs a 100. Also Chaos also has a short stun duration upon casting making Rhino Stomp even more inferior.

 

EDIT: Rhino's stomp is highly underpowered currently vs Chaos.

 

Rhino Stomp - Cost 100

 

- Enemies are lifted, then knocked down for a total of 5 / 5 / 7 / 9 seconds, taking minimal damage.

- Range of 15 / 15 / 17 / 20 in-game metres. This is increased by Power Range (Stretch).

- Cost to equip of 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 which is then halved by the Polarity slot, rounded up.

- This ability can hit enemies through walls, doors and above/below your Warframe.

- Can be used while sliding but not climbing a wall or executing a front flip. 

 

 

Chaos - Cost 75

 

- Great Crowd Control ability.

- Skill lasts for about ?/?/?/20 secs.

- Can only be reused only after current effect ends. The current effect can be ended prematurely by killing all affected enemies.

- Places a green holographic Tenno on affected enemies.

- Enemies tend to attack the closest available target so it's a reliable ability to use.

- Stuns enemies for about 2 seconds just like the "Mind Control" ability upon usage.

- It can be used effectively on bosses with a group of enemies nearby.

Edited June 6, 2013 by R3leaZ

[Keltik0ne]

Rhino's stomp is still dependent on player damage. While with Chaos you can cast and leave them alone for a while and prioritize you on something else. With Rhino Stomp if you dont kill the enemies fast you will still need to deal with the full power of the enemies while with Chaos they will have been weakened a lot. Chaos currently completely wins big time vs Rhino Stomp. While it is a 75 energy ability vs a 100. Also Chaos also has a short stun duration upon casting making Rhino Stomp even more inferior.

 

I'd play my Frost over a Nyx anyday, her abilities are so lacklustre it's comical.

[R3leaZ]

I'd play my Frost over a Nyx anyday, her abilities are so lacklustre it's comical.

Try using Nyx at high waves in defense. Her abilities become more useful than Frost's (with snowglobe as exception. Having both of them together in a team is even better.) At high waves only Snowglobe will be useful and Frost will barely have any damage output through his abilities (let alone the effective range). Nyx can just use Chaos and can make enemies damage eachother which helps very much and takes away strain on the objective. Mindcontrol is also very useful in high waves.

[Anarchel]

If you guys want to nerf Chaos again, then make Absorb and Psychic Bolts useful.

 

In terms of Absorb I'm thinking about a taunt and redirecting all collected damage to everyone around you. Meaning not dealing each individual's damage to themselves, but all and ignoring walls.

That's OP you say? Then give it a maxed absorbed damage. Like 1200, to be increased by focus. That way it would be in line with other ultis, while still remaining a high risk/high reward ability.

 

Psychic Bolts? Gimme 10 of those and make them do 150, I'd be satisfied.

That's again OP you say? Cost is 50, deals 5*125=625 damage atm. Ash's Shuriken is at 2*500=1000, costs 25, is easier and faster to cast and can deal headshots as well as penetrate.

With 10*150 it's 1500 with double cost, higher difficulty to use and without the ability to penetrate and deal headshots, but only 50% more damage. Sounds fair to me, and would finally give Nyx something to deal damage with by her own.

 

I wasn't reading the whole thread, so in case someone already suggested something like this I'm sorry for repeating.