Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

 

I have almost everything, I understand perfectly, whereas you do not.

Making it so that people have to repeatedly do the same thing over and over and over via RNG, is not good game design, it's a way of artificially padding out gameplay and making people play longer, when there are much better mechanics that can do the same thing without making someone feel burnt out, and tired of a game.

Grind has never kept me going in this game, it is not why I play warframe, and it is not what lets me keep playing warframe, if anything it's what turns me away from it and sometimes stops me from wanting to play it for weeks at a time

 

 

 

If you can't say anything reasonable, keep your mouth shut

 

I was trying to explain the difference between Needs and Wants. He WANTS to max out all mod because they are good. But he says he NEEDS them maxed out. I am sure he is MR 19 and good enough to solo T4 even without good mods. I personally was not trying to make it sound that I thought he sucked but he was making it sound like he thought he sucked and cannot play without these mods at max rank. I don't NEED every mod at max rank to be good.

[SnakeWildlife]

-snip with the screenshot-

 

I had previously gone through a Stat reset to regain things and yeah, the ingame hours there are not a full recording of everything iv done, including all the time needed to craft, trade, and customize on the liset.

 

Selecting individual Frames and weapons for each mission (i dont use loadouts, too limited) and customizing frames all the time with different colors and parts is also a time consuming thing to do aswell, that i enjoy.

 

I can clarify my actual hours in Warframe through firstly my steam:

http://steamcommunity.com/id/snakewildlife/games?tab=recent

157 Hours per every 2 weeks is VERY exhausting work.

 

Steam has nearly 2890 hours logged, whilst i played a great deal of Warframe NOT on steam when i became a founder in early beta.

Most people here can tell you that the 'hours ingame' statistic is a highly inaccurate representation of how long they have actually been on.

Edited February 22, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[SoyMalone]

I had previously gone through a Stat reset to regain things and yeah, the ingame hours there are not a full recording of everything iv done, including all the time needed to craft, trade, and customize on the liset.

 

Selecting individual Frames and weapons for each mission (i dont use loadouts, too limited) and customizing frames all the time with different colors and parts is also a time consuming thing to do aswell, that i enjoy.

 

I can clarify my actual hours in Warframe through firstly my steam:

http://steamcommunity.com/id/snakewildlife/games?tab=recent

157 Hours per every 2 weeks is VERY exhausting work.

 

Steam has nearly 2890 hours logged, whilst i played a great deal of Warframe NOT on steam when i became a founder in early beta.

Most people here can tell you that the 'hours ingame' statistic is a highly inaccurate representation of how long they have actually been on.

While that is a very dedicated figure you present, points have been made that directly challenge and in some cases refute your OP by various people. While I understand that you are responding to the Tenno who posted the SS, a restatement of your played hours in the OP doesn't help to move this forwards.

[Glitchesarecool]

Does it really matter how long OP has been playing for since he's crunched the numbers?

[MaverickZero]

Seems everyone is still eager to take a bash at Snake. A real shame, that we can't pull our heads out of our asses to look at what matters is a really sad state.

 

I'll never understand those who enjoy 0.1% progress towards something. This isn't a second life with inescapable financial hardships. Taking a second and a third "job" just to keep up with costs of 'living'. It's supposed to be a video game.

Edited February 22, 2015 by MaverickZero

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

I do agree with you OP about the grindwall... but I can't say I follow forever. 
I made 9 million credits and 2000 Ducats today alone.  

Maybe you're not farming the right missions, I don't know, I do alot of short void missions, quicker better payoff.  I'm R18 and I get by just fine.  Sure every now and again I need to go out credit fishing but you know... as much of a completionist as I am I don't need Primed Ravage to be maxed out anytime soon... one day, absolutely, but immediately before the next Trader visit?  Not really.  Why not just hold off on upgrading until Baro has gone through his cycles and you know you don't have to buy more stuff.  At some point he will have nothing to sell but the same old things, thats when you start upgrading them all.

Until then I say only upgrade the good mods you plan to use. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions/thoughts on grindwall issues;

We need to lower mod costs before anything else.  The issue imo isn't Baro's prices, the issue is the game has 3-400 different mods and half of them cost millions to upgrade.  The amount of cores needed, imo is fine, the credits is not, its extortion.  I've Double Credits for almost a full year now and I doubt I could level all my favorite mods still.  Hell I'd probably lose everything I have on 2 or 3 of them...   

R18, playing a year and I haven't finished my Hornet Strike or Vitality because I can't afford to keep pooling funds into mods and not into other things... I put mods on the backburner because of it.

Transmute and Fusion need serious credit nerf.  (I mean transmute shouldn't even cost a single credit, we already have to give up 4 mods for crappy RNG chances at 1 back.)

DE is starting to get on my nerves with the high costs to everything.... and if it doesn't cost you in credits, it costs you in time, which is even worse.  

I do have a slight advantage in this sense being on PS4, I made myself an excel spreadhseet and with everything Baro offers I'm covered forever.  Until new stuff is added.  And every time I check his wiki and see new items were added I go credit farm and ducat farm for them long before they release for me.

I think that is an unfortunate disadvantage to PC players, you have no idea what to expect for pricing.   

Edited February 22, 2015 by (PS4)lagrue

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

I do agree with you OP about the grindwall... but I can't say I follow forever. 

I made 9 million credits and 2000 Ducats today alone.  

Maybe you're not farming the right missions, I don't know, I do alot of short void missions, quicker better payoff.  I'm R18 and I get by just fine.  Sure every now and again I need to go out credit fishing but you know... as much of a completionist as I am I don't need Primed Ravage to be maxed out anytime soon... one day, absolutely, but immediately before the next Trader visit?  Not really.  Why not just hold off on upgrading until Baro has gone through his cycles and you know you don't have to buy more stuff.  At some point he will have nothing to sell but the same old things, thats when you start upgrading them all.

Until then I say only upgrade the good mods you plan to use. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My opinions/thoughts on grindwall issues;

We need to lower mod costs before anything else.  The issue imo isn't Baro's prices, the issue is the game has 3-400 different mods and half of them cost millions to upgrade.  The amount of cores needed, imo is fine, the credits is not.  I've Double Credits for almost a full year now and I doubt I could level all my favorite mods still.  Hell I'd probably lose everything I have on 2 or 3 of them...   

R18, playing a year and I haven't finished my Hornet Strike or Vitality because I can't afford to keep pooling funds into mods and not into other things... I put mods on the backburner because of it.

Transmute and Fusion need serious credit nerf.  (I mean transmute shouldn't even cost a single credit, we already have to give up 4 mods for crappy RNG chances at 1 back.)

DE is starting to get on my nerves with the high costs to everything.... and if it doesn't cost you in credits, it costs you in time, which is even worse.  

Transmutation is an old system that never got relooked at. It was placed in the game around the same time T3 gave 75k credits per run without credit booster. So 50k credits +4 Rare mod was not bad when we could get 75k per T3 run.

[Boatsniper]

The entire progression system needs to be gutted and replaced. This thread only proves that fact.

[SnakeWildlife]

I made 9 million credits and 2000 Ducats today alone.  

 

 

Its a double credit weekend....and you bought a credit booster for x4 Credits, running probably T3/4 Captures.

 

Please discontinue falsifying 'regular gameplay figures' with your 'x4 boosted, double credit weekend only running high tier void keys figures'. This is not normal gameplay. Furthermore, youre burning void-keys faster than that tower in dubai.

 

As for the rest, please stay on topic. There is no dirt to find on me and the information is legitimately displayed.

Edited February 22, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Its a double credit weekend....and you bought a credit booster for x4 Credits, running probably T3/4 Captures.

 

Please discontinue falsifying 'regular gameplay figures' with your heavily boosted, weekend only figures. This is not normal gameplay.

 

As for the rest, please stay on topic. There is no dirt to find on me.

I did forget about the double credit weekend my bad.  I did consider my boosters though and even mentioned it.  That is still 4.5 million credits to 2.25 million credits which is still way more than 800,000 per week needed.

 

You could have done the math on that, I saw your other Math so don't tell me you couldn't.  

What do you mean, I never went off topic or even said anything bad about you :s I never tried to find dirt on you... I tried to have an intelligent conversation with you and agreed with you on some points... now I don't want to anymore, clearly you didn't read the rest because it was completely on topic.  

I was completely on your side except I was confused by your figures and merely explained my own.  I think after 17 pages of forum dwellers you must be assuming I came here to troll or be a dink but that's not the case.  I wanted to participate and give input :/ 

Edited February 22, 2015 by (PS4)lagrue

[SnakeWildlife]

Yeah but if you dont have a booster, and dont have a double credit weekend.....would you be hunting credits this hard under normal circumstances?

I wouldnt.  Obviously im hammering it right now in Yursa making the most of it, but normally, hell no.

 

I dont mean any offense lagrue, im sorry if i came across as rude.  Some of the people makin me a little depressed.

Edited February 22, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[SoyMalone]

Its a double credit weekend....and you bought a credit booster for x4 Credits, running probably T3/4 Captures.

 

Please discontinue falsifying 'regular gameplay figures' with your 'x4 boosted, double credit weekend only running high tier void keys figures'. This is not normal gameplay. Furthermore, youre burning void-keys faster than that tower in dubai.

 

As for the rest, please stay on topic. There is no dirt to find on me and the information is legitimately displayed.

I agree that how long you've played isn't relevant to this topic for the most part, but you are being very selective on which points you are choosing to reply to. It seems somewhat hypocritical to start with your OP and not answer the myriad of people that have directly addressed your concerns/points. I managed to get a degree of response from you, but you haven't yet elaborated past the fact that having everything makes you happy.

[SnakeWildlife]

-snip-

 

Having everything, and maxing everything makes me and many other people happy. What more do you need to know or understand than that?

 

I have answered as many people as i can in this topic. Anymore and i wont have enough time to play the game!

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Yeah but if you dont have a booster, and dont have a double credit weekend.....would you be hunting credits this hard under normal circumstances?

I wouldnt.  Obviously im hammering it right now in Yursa making the most of it, but normally, hell no.

 

I dont mean any offense lagrue, im sorry if i came across as rude.  Some of the people makin me a little depressed.

Would I?  Not specifically for credits no and I'll concede to that point, I'm def not normally a credit grinder, I see credits as a secondary thing, almost like resources unless I desperately need them.

I would have to say the larger portion of normal credit intake comes from either to odd T4 key I manage to procure, join - or battle pay.  I do manage on average to make about 1.5 mill a week (3 with boosters) - this mostly comes from grinding later planet defenses or survivals and any high value alert that pops up :/ (also selling all them extra Oberon pieces and Forma BPs helps and all my duplicates which I don't need for leveling.) 

Don't get me wrong in any of this though, I think we need more ways to get credits still or lower prices on things as you and I mentioned.

And also it's alright, don't get upset by these people... this is the forums, you can come with the greatest ideas in the world and be crapped on.  Just try and remain level and people will try to have reasonable talks with you about it.

I tried to give a few solution as well because their economy is bad all around.   

 

 

Edited February 22, 2015 by (PS4)lagrue

[SoyMalone]

Having everything, and maxing everything makes me and many other people happy. What more do you need to know or understand than that?

 

I have answered as many people as i can in this topic. Anymore and i wont have enough time to play the game!

I'm sorry but I find that a bit of a cop out. I made a detailed and thought out post addressing your concerns, complaints and the reasons behind them. Your reply was to reduce it to "I want things to suit me" and you see that as a sufficient answer? That going into more depth would cut into your playtime?

 

That would suggest you don't care about this thread other than as a vent for your own frustrations and anything more deep than that isn't worth your effort to reply. You say people should keep on topic, but as the de facto owner of this thread your refusal to participate further than restating the same thing is contrary to the purpose of making a forum post and participating in meaningful discussion.

 

While I try and respect every viewpoint and way of thinking - "people want everything and they want it maxed" is not an argument or constructive point in any sense of the word. You must see that they will never publish content so meaningless that you can finish it all before they release more, especially when some of the problems you list regarding the game's interaction with real money underpin the game's ability to still exist at all.

 

If you find yourself so at odds with the way Warframe works, I would suggest you start a game/hobby where the concerns of other people don't intrude on your ability to have everything you want. 

[SnakeWildlife]

Your reply was to reduce it to "I want things to suit me" and you see that as a sufficient answer?

 

 "people want everything and they want it maxed" is not an argument or constructive point

 

If you find yourself so at odds with the way Warframe works, I would suggest you start a game/hobby where the concerns of other people don't intrude on your ability to have everything you want. 

 

Where is that -1 button again.. its like a broken record in here.

 

You miss the entire point again. Which is, people should be actually able to get everything and max everything if they have been paying and playing hard enough.

 

You seem to think i 'alone' am crying about something that i 'just me' want.  Not at all, the vast majority of people who +1'd this topic agree. We 'that is the overwhelming majority' want it to actually be possible to stay up to date 'and complete' the content that is given to us, before more is released 'and we are unable to keep up'

 

If it is impossible to stay 100% in this game (from whenever you started), you will find a lot of people, quitting.

 

My 'our' arguement is entirely constructive 'as i even showed you WHY it is impossible'.

 

People slightly like yourself trying to make the rediculous claim that this topic is just a minority 'crying' is what is not an arguement, and is also not as you say a 'constructive' point.

 

I suggest you do not tell me 'and us' how we should or shouldnt be playing the game, with your condescending tone.

Edited February 22, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[Aspari]

Never realized how big those numbers actually are. I'm not particularly surprised but I'm still a bit appalled by it. +1

[Monolake]

Void Trader items cycle (by current measures - less than 2.5 months, though the time scale is actually irrelevant) so there is always another chance to acquire items. You don't have to get them as soon as they first appear. They will appear again. I have stated with my playtime I am able to afford all the items available on each appearance of the trader. I have even described the whole cycle regarding the point at which all the items aren't new when he appears.

Thats very relevant, DE is pressuring people into getting everything right away, because it's a limited-time offer. Waiting 2 or more months (you never know when they cycle) is crucial. You might never get those items unless you play all the time.  Situation would be entirely different if Void trader was present with same items all the time ( at least each 2 weeks).  

[Lichcontract]

To me I think If they are gonna do the mods primed they can have it so that they are permanent with like a cost of 500 ducats each with a constant rotation of a crazy weapon(5000 ducats) and cosmetics(150 ducats) you can keep the credit costs on the mods and cosmetics but should probably be removed from the weapons. This makes the weapons unobtainable but in a good way because it's worth it and people who have actually spent the time to grind that amount out get a crazy good weapon for that damn grind.

I also think Baro should be able to trade every prime part for other prime parts like we originally wanted and then they can make it so the newest prime access stuff is off the list until the next prime access (which is normally around 80-90 days anyway) so only the people that haven't been able to find it by then would really be needing it.

This way you can choose between either crazy good weapon you have to grind for, an upgraded mod or another prime weapon. They all come at a cost of ducats so it's prime for prime, prime for prime mod or prime for prisma weapon/cosmetics. They are all long term goals that will be rewarding.

DE pls

[Lost_Cartographer]

"I want something to do!"

 

*Gets something to do that should take most players long enough for the next something to release*

 

"THIS SOMETHING TAKES TOO DAMN LONG!"

 

*Something gets made faster/easier to do*

 

*Players completes this something long before the next something is ready*

 

"I want something to do!"

 

 

 

After a point, a developer realizes they have to put their foot down and crank out their middle finger...

 

There's a reason most new content focuses on the star chart, with the occasional bone thrown to their accomplished vets.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Littleman88

[Kasarian]

To me I think If they are gonna do the mods primed they can have it so that they are permanent with like a cost of 500 ducats each with a constant rotation of a crazy weapon(5000 ducats) and cosmetics(150 ducats) you can keep the credit costs on the mods and cosmetics but should probably be removed from the weapons. This makes the weapons unobtainable but in a good way because it's worth it and people who have actually spent the time to grind that amount out get a crazy good weapon for that damn grind.

 

But then there is the problem of weapons being ridiculously expensive by plats or there would be simply outcry because such a weapon costing this much should have very good stats to cover the "sacrifice" you have to make.

 

I would also remind to everyone that not EVERYONE has tons of void keys lying around,especially T4's. Not everyone did rep farms and got thousands of keys before the system was changed. From the point of view of someone who doesn't have much keys and doesn't actively farm for them or void (lately I've been working on my mastery level and helping lots of mr1-3 people) getting those 1000 ducats and 1mil credits is... demanding? considering the pressure of time from limited offer. For more casual players this might be too hard to bother. Then what do we get? discouraged player who may as well leave the game cause it's not worth it.

 

Furthermore after you buy them you are expected to grinds tens of hours to level them up only on the condition that you have stockpile of R5 Fussion cores and enough credits to think that you might as well do business with Corpus executives... Without these two the goal of maxing out a single mod is beyond reach for "common mortals". Hell, even goal of maxing out common 10rank mods if often abandoned by someone who doesn't want to grind endlessly (considering how many 10rank mods there are).

 

I don't think this should be available off the bat, that both price for mods/weapons should be very low, no, cut them by 20-30% and we're good. Or at least they should stop constantly rising the price...

 

But when it comes to fusing mods there is a problem, price in credits and the amount of cores even for "common" mods is demanding from normal players and in my opinion should be lowered because if not we're forcing ourselves to grind in preparation to grind (at least me and anyone unfortunate who does not have stockpile of mentioned previously keys/credits, or just patience to go for that long).

 

Then again, it's just me, mr12 noob with only 500h of gameplay...

Edited February 22, 2015 by Kasarian

[Deidaku]

10/16  hrs a day iq too much m8

 

you're worrying us 

 

take a break :/

[CY13ERPUNK]

I'm sorry but I find that a bit of a cop out. I made a detailed and thought out post addressing your concerns, complaints and the reasons behind them. Your reply was to reduce it to "I want things to suit me" and you see that as a sufficient answer? That going into more depth would cut into your playtime?

 

That would suggest you don't care about this thread other than as a vent for your own frustrations and anything more deep than that isn't worth your effort to reply. You say people should keep on topic, but as the de facto owner of this thread your refusal to participate further than restating the same thing is contrary to the purpose of making a forum post and participating in meaningful discussion.

 

While I try and respect every viewpoint and way of thinking - "people want everything and they want it maxed" is not an argument or constructive point in any sense of the word. You must see that they will never publish content so meaningless that you can finish it all before they release more, especially when some of the problems you list regarding the game's interaction with real money underpin the game's ability to still exist at all.

 

If you find yourself so at odds with the way Warframe works, I would suggest you start a game/hobby where the concerns of other people don't intrude on your ability to have everything you want. 

 

bravo sir, well said

[CapedBaldy]

Probably has been asked before, but what has OP been doing in his free time?

 

If he's rotating between game modes, he gets called out for for being inefficient.

 

If he's doing things efficiently, he'll get called out for for not enjoying the game the way it's meant to be played.

[Lichcontract]

But then there is the problem of weapons being ridiculously expensive by plats or there would be simply outcry because such a weapon costing this much should have very good stats to cover the "sacrifice" you have to make.

 

I would also remind to everyone that not EVERYONE has tons of void keys lying around,especially T4's. Not everyone did rep farms and got thousands of keys before the system was changed. From the point of view of someone who doesn't have much keys and doesn't actively farm for them or void (lately I've been working on my mastery level and helping lots of mr1-3 people) getting those 1000 ducats and 1mil credits is... demanding? considering the pressure of time from limited offer. For more casual players this might be too hard to bother. Then what do we get? discouraged player who may as well leave the game cause it's not worth it.

 

Furthermore after you buy them you are expected to grinds tens of hours to level them up only on the condition that you have stockpile of R5 Fussion cores and enough credits to think that you might as well do business with Corpus executives... Without these two the goal of maxing out a single mod is beyond reach for "common mortals". Hell, even goal of maxing out common 10rank mods if often abandoned by someone who doesn't want to grind endlessly (considering how many 10rank mods there are).

 

I don't think this should be available off the bat, that both price for mods/weapons should be very low, no, cut them by 20-30% and we're good. Or at least they should stop constantly rising the price...

 

But when it comes to fusing mods there is a problem, price in credits and the amount of cores even for "common" mods is demanding from normal players and in my opinion should be lowered because if not we're forcing ourselves to grind in preparation to grind (at least me and anyone unfortunate who does not have stockpile of mentioned previously keys/credits, or just patience to go for that long).

 

Then again, it's just me, mr12 noob with only 500h of gameplay...

 

That's the whole reason I said the primed mods should be permanent it's a high ducat cost for a reason, it's primed AND permanent it gives a long term goal for casual-semi casual players while only like a day for hardcore grinders.On the weapons it would only be a small-ish amount of weapons(enough unique weapons to fill a 2 month rotation iirc Baro was said to have one off that would be unique to him unobtainable anywhere else, I was hoping for something unique instead of re-skinned weapons we already have) this way they would come around at least 6 times a year and with my proposal they would definitely have to have as I said crazy good stats since they require so much ducats. It is after all a long-term goal. Sure it's time limited but not in the way that makes sure it's never coming back and as I said the mods are permanent.

 

Sure not everyone has tons of keys to spare but that's the point. It's not balanced around the grinders it's hard AF if you try to balance for them because they will always go through your content faster than you can make it, so you end up with a bucket load of stuff for new players that they can't even dream of completing or content like Primed rank 10 mods where they can't hope to get to because they still haven't finished the star chart and have essential mods like serration, vitality and redirection to rank up while they don't have access to places they can grind-remedied a little with the addition of r5 cores to the star chart - still a low chance to get those though which is a problem only if they keep adding more and more primed mods on a 2 week basis, if not then it's a long term goal just like DE wanted. My proposal will mean they can afford such a gun with crazy good stats when they have actually played the game and maybe just maybe when they've actually become a veteran they will get rewarded.

 

Onto credits, yeah I do think credits are a bit of a problem. Since U15 I myself went from around 5.6 million to 500k without even maxing out 1 of the primed mods but that's kinda the fault of the dark sectors owners with the taxes seemingly always being 20% or higher when before with the 0% taxes we could credit farm easily, however, even now it's still not that hard to get 1 million credits if you are willing to try. It's around 5 hours of dark sector defense to 5 waves(assuming 5 waves is around 5 minutes) or go to a dark sector survival for 5 minutes then leave and to boot you get a chance at a r5 core pack. If you do that every so often mixed in with regular game play you should be okay with whatever credits you are getting since it should actually be taking longer to get primed mods in the first place (assuming my system).

 

MR in this game doesn't really mean anything you can be MR10 and love the game and your gear so much that you play for 1200 hours :P