Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[VoidPunch]

I think the problem is that you are taking long term investments and trying to complete them within this 2 week cycle. Prime Mods are meant to take a really long time to level up, its an investment not a short term completionist's goal. I understand being a completionist and all but focus on buying things first. You can always max them out later or along the way once you have them. Take it easy man, have fun with the game don't kill yourself over it.

 

(And now that you know the Void Trader cycles his inventory maybe you can rest easy in not buying every single one every time. but even if you do, you don't have to max them out so fast.)

[as3mbus]

this topic is filled with casual telling hardcore player to take it easy. with "why do you need to . . ."
so tell me what should i do as veteran player then ?

the first time i play i agree for whatever those casual said bout taking it easy.
but after a long time till i make it up to MR 18. . .
what should i do next ?
no new gear to craft, polarize weapon only limited once a day(except plat spender)

so what our next goal then ? other than max out our mod.
looking at recruiting channel is only filled with "LF Void" spamming.

sometime i asked myself "is this the reward for playing the game for so long?"
so i wont disagree when casual said "it's your fault for . . ."
but seriously what would you do when u reach the limit of this game ?

in my opinion this game is "new player friendly" and "veteran grindfest"
i've also tried many things to do from doing alert,archwing, helping new player etc.
but none of em attract me much anymore, and so i spend my other spare time watching movie or else.

 

so casuals, try to understand how veteran player feels in this grindfest .
for u guys who just burnt out and/or pissed off from the current rate i suggest to take a break till the next update.
it's better than end up entirely stop playing warframe

[Loswaith]

...

But we do have the full data. On average you will get around 22 ducats per prime part. You automatically assume every single part you will get will be 10 ducats which is completely not true.

 

You also assume 1 prime part is farmed every 15 minutes (because thats how long on average it takes to farm a key) which again, is not true. You dont include interception/survival/defense missions which hand out rewards every 5 or less (on average) minutes and also require 1 key per run.

...

We dont have the full data becuse we dont know exact drop chances.

For example:

if all common parts (10 ducats) have a 50% drop chance, all uncommon parts (20 ducats) have a 20% drop chance and all rare (50 ducats) parts have a 5% chance to drop.

Commons Value: 38 * (10*0.5) = 190

Uncommons Value: 38 * (20*0.2) = 152

Rares Value: 22 * (50*0.05) = 55

Total value: 190 + 76 + 55 = 397

Average drop earning = 397 / 98 = 4.0510 ducats per award interval (with final 4 digit rounding precision)

 

Thus making the average for a 20 min survival with 4 reward intervals (not including loading/ startup times)

4.0510 * 4 = 16.2040 (with final 4 point digit rounding precision)

(about 12.1530 for 15 mins)

 

If we change drops to 50% for common, 20% for uncommon and 10% for rare

Common value = 38 * (10 * 0.5) = 190

Uncommon value = 38 * (20 * 0.2) = 152

Rare value = 22 * (50 * 0.1) = 110

Average = (190 + 152 + 110) / 98  = 452 / 98 = 4.6122 (Ducats per interval)

 

Thus making the average 20 min survival earnings

4.6122 * 4 = 18.4490 (with final 4 point digit rounding precision)

 

Reasonably large differences in averages there given the slight change in drop chance, for what are likely higher drop chances than are actually seen in game and definatly not as uniform.

 

Actually I dont presume at all its 15 mins because thats how long it takes to get a key.

 I presume it is 15 mins from experience of how frequently prime parts are awarded in void missions, taking into the consideration of faster void missions as well. 

I dont include key's as a set time becuse you can get some get keys every 5 mins or so from endless missions as well (often more reliably than prime parts), though that also isnt guarenteed.  All this variance is gathered into the 15 mins that is typical for getting prime parts, including time taken to set up groups and inclusive of downtimes (such as loading times).

 

While you can also get prime pieces every 5 mins from a void you rarely will get them every single interval, and can get none from an 8 interval (~40 mins) mission as well.  Typically you get only one to two parts every 20 minutes the rest you cant trade for ducats.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Loswaith

[kilerskull]

Increase of grind is one more reason I will stay around for less and not recommend this game to friends.

[Onisa]

Try playing around T2 Missions. 

 

They tend to reward a bit more Prime parts (such as Sabotage, or Mobile Defence, both of which have a slightly higher percentage of 20 - 50 Ducat Prime parts, such as the Hikou Prime Blueprint or Nyx Prime Helmet Blueprint). 

I'm well aware, I was simply using a personal example using what I was given that day. I wouldn't even touch T1 Cap keys if I didn't have a friend in need of a pouch.

[Stratego89]

Uh, your contention about MR lock would only make sense if you were talking numbers in the double digits. You can hit MR 2 with starting gear. MR 6 isn't much more difficult. Although your point about syndicate syndanyanas is true, we're talking about mods and equipment that actually do something. And all of that can be bought for platinum. Which is bought for real money. Trading might take 15 minutes a day. I'd say that is a lot less than the grind we've been discussing.

Your point about MR2 is valid. As for trading only taking 15 minutes per day, my point was not how much time the actual TRADES take, but rather how many days overall you'd have to trade for all of the mods, especially if you're a low rank. Once again, releveling weapons with forma to make them good takes time and effort as well, you cannot pay platinum to directly level your weapons for you, only to help speed up the process a bit.

[HurricaneBones]

I am in the same position as you and I was thinking the same.

 

And then i tried I did my math and tried :

I played around 1h per day.

I ran a lots of T4 interception, during 8 waves I got around 100 ducats, 5-10 fusion cores and 30000credits.

I got time to launch 2 T4 inter per day. Plenty enough for the void trader.

Then I tried T4 Def, and in 40 waves I was around 200-250 ducats and , 5-10 fusion cores and 30000credits.

Even better.

 

Finding the credits :

I bought a 3 days booster

I grinded PvE dark sectors getting around 800k / hour.

And then I put alerts on big battle pays conflict and it was even better.

Cherry on the top : the double credits week end

You go on PvE dark sectors getting 1.6m/hour

 

And for maxing the prime mod :

I was sitting on a big pile of fusion cores. (thx for the old ability mods, and 1 year of farming)

I decided to go only 9/10 rank.

It’s almost the same and I use half the money and cores.

And I admit there’s no solution for grinding the cores yet.

But I managed to sit on my frustration and be happy with 9/10 rank prime mods.I did my math and tried :

I played around 1h per day.

I ran a lots of T4 interception, during 8 waves I got around 100 ducats, 5-10 fusion cores and 30000credits.

I got time to launch 2 T4 inter per day. Plenty enough for the void trader.

Then I tried T4 Def, and in 40 waves I was around 200-250 ducats and , 5-10 fusion cores and 30000credits.

Even better.

 

Finding the credits :

I bought a 3 days booster

I grinded PvE dark sectors getting around 800k / hour.

And then I put alerts on big battle pays conflict and it was even better.

Cherry on the top : the double credits week end

You go on PvE dark sectors getting 1.6m/hour

 

And for maxing the prime mod :

I was sitting on a big pile of fusion cores. (thx for the old ability mods, and 1 year of farming)

I decided to go only 9/10 rank.

It’s almost the same and I use half the money and cores.

And I admit there’s no solution for grinding the cores yet.

But I managed to sit on my frustration and be happy with 9/10 rank prime mods.

[SnakeWildlife]

Yea the double credits weekend with a credit booster for x4 credits was certainly helpful, though i dont think DE should go in that direction of doing repeat double-weekends.

 

The reason why is...I dont know about you but after hammering that double-credit weekend hard, i was feeling burnt out in a bad way.

[PrimeShizzle]

@TS,

 

I started playing WF Jan 09 2015, have 216K MR points (MR9,5 ;) ) played 329 hours so far in approx 6 weeks (329h / 42 days = almost 8h a day, each day) And i have a full time job, 2 kids, a wife, and a normal social life.....not a No Life as u described for yourself.

 

So u could say i am fairly new to the game. 

But, i am 37, and played many many PC games in my 20+ gaming years experiance, i know how the general mechanics of gaming and there economics, grinding, buying stuff for real cash etc etc work....

 

And if there is one thing in general that i have learned is, that u just cant have it all, its about choices, just like in real life....

And !! When u have it all, whats there left to play the game for ? One must have goals right ?

 

 

(English is not my native Language) 

Edited February 25, 2015 by Shiznit_NL

[Parthieon]

this topic is filled with casual telling hardcore player to take it easy. with "why do you need to . . ."

so tell me what should i do as veteran player then ?

the first time i play i agree for whatever those casual said bout taking it easy.

but after a long time till i make it up to MR 18. . .

what should i do next ?

no new gear to craft, polarize weapon only limited once a day(except plat spender)

so what our next goal then ? other than max out our mod.

looking at recruiting channel is only filled with "LF Void" spamming.

sometime i asked myself "is this the reward for playing the game for so long?"

so i wont disagree when casual said "it's your fault for . . ."

but seriously what would you do when u reach the limit of this game ?

in my opinion this game is "new player friendly" and "veteran grindfest"

i've also tried many things to do from doing alert,archwing, helping new player etc.

but none of em attract me much anymore, and so i spend my other spare time watching movie or else.

 

so casuals, try to understand how veteran player feels in this grindfest .

for u guys who just burnt out and/or &!$$ed off from the current rate i suggest to take a break till the next update.

it's better than end up entirely stop playing warframe

All of my yes

 

Hes got a point. What else is there to do? "its supposed to take you awhile to level it". Well im rank 17 i dont have tons of content sitting infront of me unlike others. Causal players are telling us that its supposed to take time over this. Well sorry if we want to rank it up and not have to spend months doing it.

[Jax_Cavalera]

@TS,

 

I started playing WF Jan 09 2015, have 216K MR points (MR9,5 ;) ) played 329 hours so far in approx 6 weeks (329h / 42 days = almost 8h a day, each day) And i have a full time job, 2 kids, a wife, and a normal social life.....not a No Life as u described for yourself.

 

So u could say i am fairly new to the game. 

But, i am 37, and played many many PC games in my 20+ gaming years experiance, i know how the general mechanics of gaming and there economics, grinding, buying stuff for real cash etc etc work....

 

And if there is one thing in general that i have learned is, that u just cant have it all, its about choices, just like in real life....

And !! When u have it all, whats there left to play the game for ? One must have goals right ?

 

 

(English is not my native Language) 

 

I believe that when you have it all .. being all the content there is to have.. you then USE it and start to really customize each piece you particularly liked the most.

 

PvP is a great end game concept as it allows players to compete against unpredictable and unique enemies that have no specific path they always take or predictable actions they will always do.

 

All games relying on AI and bots reach their limitations eventually so this is a logical move by DE to improve PvP as a step forwards since Getting More Stuff can't always be the only goal of a game.  A lot of players I talk to (myself included) are looking forward to getting all that is available so we can then change pace from grinding to customizing and then USING the content we have obtained.

 

Life is about making choices though that's true so you can either choose to have it all right away and enter into the competitive realm that's being prepared sooner .. or you can keep casually grinding (like paying off the home loan) for the next however long it will take to reach a point of completion.. assuming you don't get bored doing the same old farming for filler gear and quit prior.

 

To be fair, most of the content released is simply filler.. it's useless items no player will ever consider long term during End-Game missions.  If you are at a point where you are fighting lvl 100+ mobs.. and you still feel the need for an "Intruder" mod, it would become questionable as to how you managed to obtain all your equipment etc to even be reaching lvl 100+ enemies if you can't handle a terminal hacking.

 

Also, why release weapons etc.. that perform the same task as other ones.. but dealing lower damage/slower reload or fire rates and have lower status / crit chances ?  None of this makes sense.. you build guns purely for the achievement of them being used once for a 4 wave draco run.. and then put away never to be used again.. TY Come Again ... Mastery Fodder

 

So a bit of a tangent sure though it does relate as it speaks to content in game that really is fodder and of no critical use to provide perspective on just why players DO NEED to get all items being provided by the trader that can modify stats.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[Renegade343]

Using other Mods for fusion power makes the credit cost go up. 

In which most missions would provide the credit difference already (especially if you are running Void Missions). And Battlepay from Dark Sectors, if players are that desperate (although those matches tend to be rigged, so for a Dark Sector PVP player that plays fair, Battlepay matches tend to be out for me). 

 

Well you can obtain cores, prime parts, and credits. But really only 2 of those effectively at any given time.

See reply above with Void Missions. 

 

I'm well aware, I was simply using a personal example using what I was given that day. I wouldn't even touch T1 Cap keys if I didn't have a friend in need of a pouch.

And yes, that is just one day. One can make up the difference over a couple of days with other Keys. 

[zavienh5]

Because i am a completionist, one of MANY.

uh, I think you should also worry about focusing about getting a real life man...like have a family, girlfriend/boyfriend, friends, work?

comon dude....dont be such a addict no offense

[Althran]

If DE listens to even half of what's in this post, they could possibly say that this year is headed in the direction of quality.  I personally just didn't even bother buying it because it was impossible, but that's just me.

[KuroShiranui]

If DE listens to even half of what's in this post, they could possibly say that this year is headed in the direction of quality.  I personally just didn't even bother buying it because it was impossible, but that's just me.

 

Well, this would still end up in community hot topics for one.

[DSpite]

I've taken a break from WF, and finally went to play GW2, a game I bought at release, but basically shelved for 2 years.

 

It's a game where if you are a person that want to complete and get "everything", you would have a really, really bad time. I'll just say it now: It's impossible. They add more obtainable content "per hour" then it's possible to farm "per hour", even if you farmed 24/7, simply because they have time gates on some repeatable content (ie dungeons) and extremely low drop percentages on things that are not even on standard drop tables, so you have a low random chance to end up with an item that when opened has a random chance to drop a scrap of something that needs another 9 extra scraps to convert into 1 of something else that needs 2-5 more of those just to unlock one skin on a table of 100+ skins ... sheesh.

 

Now, I no longer see why any game needs to have "reasonable" times to unlock a major potion of the "loot" it contain. As long as you are not locked out completely of actual playable game content, and by that I mean missions, planets, etc etc, then why is it important to make it "reasonable" to allow people to unlock the 10th pip on a special mod, when for the cost of those last 2 pips you could probably max a handful of normal rank 10 mods?

 

You can get Frames relatively easily. The non Primed mods are perfectly usable, and anything else DE has injected into the game like Primes has been more or less "optional" in nature, and never too OP compared to a similar version, and there has not been anything so far that is both a "must have" and "very hard to level up".

 

So what if your Primed mods stay on 8/10 pips for a very long - if not forever - time period? So what If the Trader shows up and you don't have enough Ducats to buy all "5 new things in the shop"?

 

Warframe does not owe players any favors. The better DE does, the higher the chance they will release more content faster, eventually reaching a stage that a new player coming to the game is being handed content faster then can be completed even playing 24/7. That's a GOOD thing, and people here are complaining.

 

Large amount of content means we can focus in thing we like. The fact we might not be able to get "everything" is not a good reason to make some parts easier to obtain it and max them out just because people get nervous twitches when not all the dots are lit up on mod cards.

[SnakeWildlife]

I have a very easy reply to that.

 

If you dont make content that requires upgraded/maxed mods...why release weapons and mods which give such power? Why bother earning them and why bother upgrading them and why bother, etc etc

 

Its the 'You dont need to play Warframe'  ideology.

 

Is my goal supposed to be "Dont play" ?

 

Because i just dont get that...and i never will.

[Liminal]

Large amount of content means we can focus in thing we like. 

Actually, the reward mechanics in WF mean that if you focus on what you like, and what you like doesn't give any "new" rewards, you'll never get anything.

[Renegade343]

Actually, the reward mechanics in WF mean that if you focus on what you like, and what you like doesn't give any "new" rewards, you'll never get anything.

Do they?

 

I like Spy 2.0 Missions, so I run them quite a lot. Those missions reward me mods and a Key when all data vaults have been hacked (and with more Affinity if undetected, along with Stealth Affinity Bonuses), and that allows me to trade the mods, earn Keys to get to the Void for getting Prime parts for Ducats, and level up my weapons very easily. 

 

Even with some missions like Exterminate would also reward me with Stealth Affinity Bonuses if I decide to go stealthy. 

[Liminal]

Do they?

 

I like Spy 2.0 Missions, so I run them quite a lot. Those missions reward me mods and a Key when all data vaults have been hacked (and with more Affinity if undetected, along with Stealth Affinity Bonuses), and that allows me to trade the mods, earn Keys to get to the Void for getting Prime parts for Ducats, and level up my weapons very easily. 

 

Even with some missions like Exterminate would also reward me with Stealth Affinity Bonuses if I decide to go stealthy. 

No, what I'm saying is that, for example: I hate voids, I've had enough of them. They are the #1 cause for farm-induced-burnout. And I like capture or exterminate missions in solar map tiles. By playing what I like, I will not get any new guns, frames or mods. It's undeniable that WF encourages doing the same thing over and over, whether you like it or not, to get new rewards.

[Onisa]

Do they?

 

I like Spy 2.0 Missions, so I run them quite a lot. Those missions reward me mods and a Key when all data vaults have been hacked (and with more Affinity if undetected, along with Stealth Affinity Bonuses), and that allows me to trade the mods, earn Keys to get to the Void for getting Prime parts for Ducats, and level up my weapons very easily. 

 

Even with some missions like Exterminate would also reward me with Stealth Affinity Bonuses if I decide to go stealthy. 

Except both those examples fall under the 'new' category. They have both been revamped or had new mechanics added to them quite recently.

While I agree keys will almost always be relevant the mods will eventually loose their value as more people get them. Then it'll be down to 'you can solo this mission for a key and decent xp'. And that's assuming the mission type doesn't suffer any further nerfs. I mean someone already decided that the corpus ones were too easy.

[Renegade343]

No, what I'm saying is that, for example: I hate voids, I've had enough of them. They are the #1 cause for farm-induced-burnout. And I like capture or exterminate missions in solar map tiles. By playing what I like, I will not get any new guns, frames or mods. It's undeniable that WF encourages doing the same thing over and over, whether you like it or not, to get new rewards.

Except both those examples fall under the 'new' category. They have both been revamped or had new mechanics added to them quite recently.

Alright, I also like Defence, Survival (and Excavation, and Interception) (actually, come to think of it, I like every mission), and they also reward me with things (Keys, mods, credits, Prime parts [if in Void], etc.). These are pretty old enough, and not really have been revamped much after their introduction (bar Interception). 

[Drasiel]

Alright, I also like Defence, Survival (and Excavation, and Interception) (actually, come to think of it, I like every mission), and they also reward me with things (Keys, mods, credits, Prime parts [if in Void], etc.). These are pretty old enough, and not really have been revamped much after their introduction (bar Interception). 

 

Those are all endless though, and even DE admits that the reward balance for endless missions vs single playthrough missions is wonky as all hell. There is what, like a 2% chance of getting a key from capture missions? They have also all been either touched up repeatedly throughout the last 2 years (survival with it's air drops and enemy spawns and detection ranges so you can play for as long as you are able), are new like excavation (which is really just an endless mutation of mobile defence), or finally been adjusted to give stacking rewards (defense) which make them much more lucrative game types.

 

I don't really like endless missions, I like having a clear game defined goal for my missions. I also really enjoy soloing, and endless missions while playable solo are very much geared towards a squad. So the missions that I have left to play that I enjoy are severely lacking in those kind of progression enabling rewards.

 

Granted this can be fixed with touching up rewards and revamping some older missions, but there will still be the ever looming void. The only place to get prime parts, the only place to farm ducats, one of the best place to get credits and affinity. The place where veterans go to burn out and quit playing. Seriously I kind of wish they'd put all the common and a dash of uncommon prime parts in the derelicts and the uncommon/rares in the void, at least then we'd have 2 places to divide our farming between.

[denshibushi]

All of my yes

 

Hes got a point. What else is there to do? "its supposed to take you awhile to level it". Well im rank 17 i dont have tons of content sitting infront of me unlike others. Causal players are telling us that its supposed to take time over this. Well sorry if we want to rank it up and not have to spend months doing it.

 

Exactly. Which is why I continually wonder if once the beta period ends DE should do a server reset and everyone starts from scratch. But by then I think everyone will be burnt out. :)

[Kasarian]

Exactly. Which is why I continually wonder if once the beta period ends DE should do a server reset and everyone starts from scratch. But by then I think everyone will be burnt out. :)

 

No burn out, straight out rage quit. S#&$load of people (me among them) didn't spend hundreds of hours (some even thousand+) in the game farming, building and getting various stuff just to see someone delete it with flipping a switch....

Edited February 27, 2015 by Kasarian