Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[Dunkingmachine]

You do realize that numbers on paper =/= actual game play experience, correct? I honestly don't give two $h1ts about such dry information given RNG is perfectly capable of saying 'no R5s for you, just ammo drums'. Hell, according to you I walked away from those 8 T1 Capture keys with three prime parts. Given you seem to be the kind to boast the cynic in me is getting louder.

 

That's not the cynic in you getting louder, just someone who likes to keep arguing for the sake of arguing. Your 8 keys are empirically worthless, you should be familiar to the law of big numbers. Or not? Getting all r5 cores from Triton would mean you would burn through an average of (528/5)/0.25 =~ 425 A rewards, which almost guarantees well, according to the dropchances split, loot. I've done 3 casual Triton runs today, with a total of 33 A rewards involved. We got a total of 8 packs out of those, meaning an almost perfect 24.24% droprate. The first game was S#&$, the other 2 a bit over average, but rng gets balanced out. Feel free to crawl through these screenshots for reference: http://imgur.com/a/WdoSY

 

Edit: I also found a sweet little tool online to test the law of large numbers.

 

Set the ratio to the desired droprate (1:3 = 25% for cores in this case), click "pick many" and watch as it generates results! You can let it run to 425 a few times if you want and check deviations, the vast majority of them will be no larger than ~2-3% max.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Dunkingmachine

[Serzet]

I agree.

This just scares off new player and insults veteran players.

All these core nerfs and primed mods result in nothing positive.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Serzet

[SnakeWildlife]

Yeah i gotta agree on Onisas RNG note, if im running T1 Captures i (in my experience) only seem to get a prime part every like...7 runs.

[Flowen231]

So far this thread has been nothing but "This system is bullS#&$" Versus "We don't care because odds are it wont be so bad for some people".

[(PSN)geb9696]

It could be useful in a now vs then way. It would require someone to try on PC as well though.

I'd suggest something to prove what you went into this with, missions run and prizes gained.

If I do it I would keep a log.

[Onisa]

 

That's not the cynic in you getting louder, just someone who likes to keep arguing for the sake of arguing. Your 8 keys are empirically worthless, you should be familiar to the law of big numbers. Or not? Getting all r5 cores from Triton would mean you would burn through an average of (528/5)/0.25 =~ 425 A rewards, which almost guarantees well, according to the dropchances split, loot. I've done 3 casual Triton runs today, with a total of 33 A rewards involved. We got a total of 8 packs out of those, meaning an almost perfect 24.24% droprate. The first game was S#&$, the other 2 a bit over average, but rng gets balanced out. Feel free to crawl through these screenshots for reference: http://imgur.com/a/WdoSY

 

Edit: I also found a sweet little tool online to test the law of large numbers.

 

Set the ratio to the desired droprate (1:3 = 25% for cores in this case), click "pick many" and watch as it generates results! You can let it run to 425 a few times if you want and check deviations, the vast majority of them will be no larger than ~2-3% max.

Oh hey, some actual screenshots. Was that really so hard?

And guess what? Actually showing that 'casual' Triton may only takes 40% longer than 'hardcore' Triton does wonders for your position. Not that I'd want to play two hours daily on a single map normally, but at this rate it's only three missions.

 

Yes, I'm aware and even double checked to make sure we were on the same page. The point I was trying to make is that most players don't burn through enough keys to truly be effected by such sterile things as statistics. That I could burn the nine T1 caps I have and get no further prime parts. Or I could get three pouches. Neither of which is statistically likely, simply possible.

[Dunkingmachine]

Oh hey, some actual screenshots. Was that really so hard?

And guess what? Actually showing that 'casual' Triton may only takes 40% longer than 'hardcore' Triton does wonders for your position. Not that I'd want to play two hours daily on a single map normally, but at this rate it's only three missions.

 

Yes, I'm aware and even double checked to make sure we were on the same page. The point I was trying to make is that most players don't burn through enough keys to truly be effected by such sterile things as statistics. That I could burn the nine T1 caps I have and get no further prime parts. Or I could get three pouches. Neither of which is statistically likely, simply possible.

 

As i said i happened to play the missions today, sending screenshot from the future isn't something i'm capable of. Otherwise, sure. Concerning the void keys, if you don't want to run that unrewarding t1 stuff, Triton actually rewards void keys as well, t2-t3 keys of all varieties, so that makes 12 types. 8 of those are non-endless, 6 even have a guaranteed high reward rate for the time you put in when doing them, so you can just burn through them relatively quickly. Now assuming you have done your daily dose of Triton for 2 weeks, you'll have around 200 void keys collected. That's a lot! Surely most players wouldn't do that, but even with just the 3 missions i did today i collected 15 void keys, even t2sabs, and if you do it more or less regularly you'll have your ducat source right there as well.

 

Edit: And yes, over the course of two weeks you should accumulate enough to make statistics work.

Edit2: They keys are of course also a fast and direct source of credits and should result in a major reduction of dedicated credit farming time. The whole system, it just works.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Dunkingmachine

[Jax_Cavalera]

I'm just going to cut the crap here and ignore those lousy provocations. I don't really care what you do with your time, here's what i claimed:

 

 

 

That's just for ranking up the mods. So the question is, can i farm cores and credits for 5 primed mods in 2 weeks with 10-16h (let's just assume 13) a day? 182h time.

 

1) cores

 

we'll need 528*5 = 2640

of course we farm the most efficient way, which is Triton, which gives out r5 cores at a rate of 1 per 2 minutes. So the total time needed is 5280 minutes or 88h playtime to get the cores done! Now in reality, it will actually be a lot less, since you get fusion energy out of drops - but for the sake of this argument i'll ignore it.

 

2) credits

 

2.5kk credits per mod is a rediculous number, 95% of our fusion energy will come from r5 cores, 2kk is much closer to reality (still too high though). Let's set the goal to 10kk.

 

Let's also ignore the fact that those missions actually handed out credits. No, we're farming everything from scratch. Now it would be easy to do get the credits from farming non-endless voids, t4s even hand out corepacks, and there's quite a lot of people hosting these for free! But that would be too easy. No, we make it extra tedious and farm dark sectors. Let's gather a group and farm those defenses, 17k per mission and done in 4 minutes? yes please! Credit booster, let's make that 34k!

 

And some math again.

 

(10.000.000 / 34.000 ) * 4 = 1176 minutes or 19h 36 min DS farming.

 

Where are we at? Oh 107h and 36 minutes! Well darn, we still have almost 75h of the time left! I guess we don't even need that credit booster. Still 55h left! Well i guess you can use those to do all the social stuff i wanted to ignore at first. And that is the most fail save way possible, if you get lucky with hosts for farmable void missions, you gonna get to your goal even quicker.

 

But all of that is really highly irrelevant, right? After all, it's just 1-2 primed mods you really "need" to max in those 2 weeks. If you can't do that, mr "no life gamer", then i guess it is on order to say you're taking your self proclaimed completionist title not really serious.

 

Wait are you saying you don't need to obtain the goods to get the mods as well as max out the 5 for the 2 weeks?  That's not a very well founded case to make since everyone wanting to gain the new gear from the trader will be also working to bank enough for the extra stuff the trader will be bringing as well as trying to max out their previously obtained goods.

 

Also you are talking about 107 hours as though it isn't that much time.. that's like 4.5 days non-stop!!  no sleeping no breaks.... no work... no social life.. nothing!

 

Now even if you can get away with doing that for 2 weekends in a row that's only 4 days and you will be completely used for work or school or whatever other social and real life obligations you have so no human is going to do that.

 

If you split that time out to even spend half  day each day that comes to 9 days of gaming devoting 12 hours per day.. which is still not possible to do for the average player so let's make it more realistic.

 

how bout 8 hours per day?  Still excessively high and I have my doubts that people could maintain this non-stop plus hold a healthy lifestyle working a full time job/school/studies/social commitments however lets just roll with it  so 8 hours per day means .. 13.4 days out of the total 14 days

 

You are scraping in here barely and even then it's based on a borderline realistic timeframe.  most people get home from work or whatever around 3pm to 5pm depending and are in bed by about 9pm to 11pm if it's something they can maintain which is actually only a 6 hour timespace during the week assuming they never stop from the moment they get home to the moment they sleep with no breaks for food or other things such as homework/studies/socializing etc.

 

and as we can see if you spend 6 hours only per weekday plus maybe 10 per weekend day you will not make the timeframe quoted.  Just being realistic and putting it into perspective without leaving out details that most humans will need to consider.  hard maths sure it's possible but reality.. well life isn't as open shut as the maths sometimes.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[Ajreil]

As much as I would love to talk about your excessive use of capital, bold and underlined text, I think you may not be thinking very far ahead. While it is true that maxing out the number of rare/primed mods Warframe has to offer is a rediculously large task, I think this may be in the best interest of that game. Warframe is a loot-driven game, and for players who have reached the end game (or the tiny end game we have), maxing out mods is the last task they have to do. People who successfully complete every piece of content a game has to offer tend to leave the game completely. Take this with a grain of salt because I am only Mastery Rank 10, but I think for some of us the impossibly high wall is what we need, because there is nothing after we climb to the top.

 

Warframe deserves an and game. Since we don't have that, we have Primed mods and a massive grind wall to keep us busy while DE works on giving us one.

[Dunkingmachine]

Wait are you saying you don't need to obtain the goods to get the mods as well as max out the 5 for the 2 weeks?  That's not a very well founded case to make since everyone wanting to gain the new gear from the trader will be also working to bank enough for the extra stuff the trader will be bringing as well as trying to max out their previously obtained goods.

 

Also you say 107 hours isn't that much time.. that's like 4.5 days non-stop!!  no sleeping no breaks.... no work... no social life.. nothing!

 

Now even if you can get away with doing that for 2 weekends in a row that's only 4 days and you will be completely used for work or school or whatever other social and real life obligations you have so no human is going to do that.

 

If you split that time out to even spend half  day each day that comes to 9 days of gaming devoting 12 hours per day.. which is still not possible to do for the average player so let's make it more realistic.

 

how bout 8 hours per day?  Still excessively high and I have my doubts that people could maintain this non-stop plus hold a healthy lifestyle working a full time job/school/studies/social commitments however lets just roll with it  so 8 hours per day means .. 13.4 days out of the total 14 days

 

You are scraping in here barely and even then it's based on a borderline realistic timeframe.  most people get home from work or whatever around 3pm to 5pm depending and are in bed by about 9pm to 11pm if it's something they can maintain which is actually only a 6 hour timespace during the week assuming they never stop from the moment they get home to the moment they sleep with no breaks for food or other things such as homework/studies/socializing etc.

 

and as we can see if you spend 6 hours only per weekday plus maybe 10 per weekend day you will not make the timeframe quoted.  Just being realistic and putting it into perspective without leaving out details that most humans will need to consider.  hard maths sure it's possible but reality.. well life isn't as open shut as the maths sometimes.

 

Sigh. You're quoting that out of context or maybe you just didn't get the point. See, OP openly states he plays 10-16h a day. OP claims it is impossible to max 2 primed mods a week. I say that with his playtime, he could even max 5 and provide math for the most efficient route he is obviously not using to proof it. In no way is that meant as farming advice for me, you or any other above-average or hardcore gamer. It's just theory of proofing something is physically possible for a no-life gamer like the op using the exact amount of time he himself provided. That's it.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Dunkingmachine

[Drasiel]

As much as I would love to talk about your excessive use of capital, bold and underlined text, I think you may not be thinking very far ahead. While it is true that maxing out the number of rare/primed mods Warframe has to offer is a rediculously large task, I think this may be in the best interest of that game. Warframe is a loot-driven game, and for players who have reached the end game (or the tiny end game we have), maxing out mods is the last task they have to do. People who successfully complete every piece of content a game has to offer tend to leave the game completely. Take this with a grain of salt because I am only Mastery Rank 10, but I think for some of us the impossibly high wall is what we need, because there is nothing after we climb to the top.

 

Warframe deserves an and game. Since we don't have that, we have Primed mods and a massive grind wall to keep us busy while DE works on giving us one.

 

One issue is that veteran players have generally already spent a large amount of time scaling a rather large grind wall. Once we get to the top of it we are greeted with.... an even larger grind wall. It's not exactly a good encouragement to stick around either, especially when DE repeatable says they don't want players grinding mindlessly but playing the different missions etc. :\

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Do you not agree with Dunkingmachine's appraisal of 17.5 hours play to farm enough cores for Primed mod maxing?

 

I think that balancing drops around the core equivalent of rep farming is very unhealthy for the longevity of the game.

[Speedingbus]

Seriously did anyone see the irony with DE fusion core question? Rebecca saw all the R5 core threads and she even locked a major one.

[Kasarian]

As much as I would love to talk about your excessive use of capital, bold and underlined text, I think you may not be thinking very far ahead. While it is true that maxing out the number of rare/primed mods Warframe has to offer is a ridiculously large task, I think this may be in the best interest of that game. Warframe is a loot-driven game, and for players who have reached the end game (or the tiny end game we have), maxing out mods is the last task they have to do. People who successfully complete every piece of content a game has to offer tend to leave the game completely. Take this with a grain of salt because I am only Mastery Rank 10, but I think for some of us the impossibly high wall is what we need, because there is nothing after we climb to the top.

 

Warframe deserves an and game. Since we don't have that, we have Primed mods and a massive grind wall to keep us busy while DE works on giving us one.

 

Ahahahahaaa... That's a nice joke there buddy. It's so funny it is insulting in fact. Lemme get by each:

 

"I think you may not be thinking very far ahead"

I think you are the one not thinking ahead. How many rank10 have you maxed out? How many Prime Warframes have you obtained by yourself? Prime weapons? How many Forma in total did you put in your guns/warframes?

My answer (by order):

--None, for all the cores I farmed I have yet to max out any rank 10 mod reason being: Redirection/Vitality (i don't see necesity to put more cores into these mods as difference will be small and unnoticable at T4), Serration/Hornet Strike are both at 8 since I don't have enough cores to do that (and if I did that I'd have to Forma each and every "completed" weapon as they are on 0 when it comes to capacity), and lastly Corrupted mods, Transient Fortitude is on 7 and I don't think that without forsaking slowly leveling up the Prime mods, rest like Blind Rage are on 3-4 ranks for some "min/max" builds.

--Nova and Mag. Those two Primes I did get by myself, other 2 (Rhino and Ember) I had to trade single parts because RNG was refusing actively to give me that one damn single part I needed to complete that Prime.

--From 4 primes I had I fully completed by myself only Braton, again 1 part for my other 3 primes I had to trade because RNG (and I spent some time fighting it to get those 3 other primes)

--Formas 30, leveling back weapons and warframe takes time and besides polarity there is no other reward for it.

 

TL:DR* I completed only small part of the game as Mastery13 and counting in all grinding for keys, cores, mastery fodder, each and every aspect mentioned above it took me 550hours. I can take away 50h for screwing around on relays or helping other people out or generally goofing off with clanmates. This leaves me with 500**hours. Now with quote above in order to max out 1! single Prime mod i have to "casually" farm/grind 107! hours to that. Now I may be not the best Mathematician but when I compare My playtime with the time needed to max out a single mod, I see somethings wrong. Like seriously wrong. Even if I decide not to max every prime mod (which I won't), to get 3-4 Primes on rank9 it'll mean I'll have to spend 200hours+ to do that. I do not wish to spend 200 hours in the future on that task, thus I want to do anything in order to change that, while I'm at it, for the better of everyone not just only me. If that is not thinking ahead, I do not know what is.   (even if that'll mean spamming like an immature person I guess)

 

Next:

"I think this may be in the best interest of that game."

Excuse me? Scaring newbies from the game by showing that without serious time commitment or huge cash investment they might as well sit around Mercury/Venus because of the huge grind wall, discourage casual players from advancing further because after each task there is 2x more grind or lastly burn out veterans from grind is in the games best interest?

"Warframe is a loot-driven game, and for players who have reached the end game (or the tiny end game we have), maxing out mods is the last task they have to do."

This is no proper argument to excuse huge amount of grind with RNGesus fliping you off every once in a while.

 

 

Now my favorite so far, will chop it up a bit.

"Take this with a grain of salt"

No thanks, keep it, you'll need it.

 

"because I am only Mastery Rank 10"

Yes, it is exactly as you are rank10 that to me you seem so full of joy and optimism. Either that or you are grind fanatic.

 

"but I think for some of us the impossibly high wall is what we need, because there is nothing after we climb to the top."

Nice one, poetic. Let me respond in kind.

"Have you ever been on the top of the mountain? Hours upon hours spent on climbing, you're sick of your goal being always up ahead. Then you take one more step and you're at the top. It that instant the view you have before you takes away your breath, you forget about everything you cursed just a few seconds ago and feel pure joy."

This comes from my personal experience of mountain climbing (though nothing extreme). You either reach the top or you forfeit as "this $h1t ain't worth my time". "Endless" goal is a bad one.

 

Lastly:

"Warframe deserves an and game."

Yes it does, but if that's it don't you think somethings wrong?

 

True TL:DR: We already have enough of grind, instead of using Prime mods as Endgame I'd recommend reconsidering if this is really the best endgame there is (I mean hell, even original ME3 ending is better than this in my opinion, and that's something).

 

*Not much shorter than "original"

** And I'm sure as hell it pales in comparison to what other people did with their playtime and what they could do in that huge amount of time. I could even remove much more time but even with that value it says something. And i shamefully admit that there was nor "profesionalism" nor efficientcy in doing those tasks.

 

PS. I am aware the post wasn't directed to me but i felt like responding to it.

PS.2  Can't we just agree that we could say pretty please to DE to cut credit costs by I don't know, 1/4? and amount of cores to max mods by 1/4 or 1/5? I just cannot see why anyone wouldn't be happy about it...

Edited March 6, 2015 by Kasarian

[NocturneOfSolace]

And the debate with people who do not have their minds firmly grounded in reality, continues

[Monolake]

...

 

Do you have all the prime mods maxed btw?  

 

Has anyone maxed all the prime mods (not using Legendary cores)?

[Renegade343]

Do you have all the prime mods maxed btw?  

 

Has anyone maxed all the prime mods (not using Legendary cores)?

Does "have the Cores to do so and all the Primed mods (and the Credits as well), but not yet done so" count?

 

Just asking. 

[Monolake]

Does "have the Cores to do so and all the Primed mods (and the Credits as well), but not yet done so" count?

 

Just asking. 

Technically no, but  if some one stockpiled 4700 r5 cores not using them that would be quite peculiar to see.

I imagine people who farm this much just sell maxed useful mods. So if any one had maxed out primed mods 9 times at all (again not counting use of Legendary cores)  that would count.

[dashashou]

 I think that we can all agree that Primed mods where initially planned to be a long term goal.  With the frankly insane cost  both to level / max both in credits and cores . A primed mod is a challenge and a half to max .  

 

But DE went and added 2 things that turned  , a long term goal into a short term one . 

 

- syndicate t4 - 5 key packs ,   

- placing 5, R5-Cores in rotation A, of T4S  

 

With these 2 factors,  alot of us could max a  primed mod in under a month . 

 

And with the new primed mods coming out 2 every 2 weeks the hardest core of players where maxing their primed mods the same week . 

 

SO  to DE tried to put the genie back in the bottle ;  to make maxing primed mods a long term goal ;  first  by removing the 5 pack of t4 keys from the syndicate packs ,  and then  by removing cores from t4s rotation A ( which makes doing a t4s near pointless  atm ) 

 

But too many of us have gotten used to the fast lane , too many of us view  maxing primed mods as a short term goal rather than a long term goal  and as much as DE wants to their player base  to view it as a long term goal , their player base is to used to the  harder diff = better rewards of t4s .

 

the genie is out of the bottle , and DE leaving  t4s as it is ; all it does is alienate their hard core players who have locked into the idea of maxed primed mods before the next rotation .    

 

that 's the OP - point that's it's no longer a achievable  short or long  term goal . And he feels alienated of his goal of maxing his primed mods .   

[DaganEldr]

I heavily support this. I too have noticed the flaws in some of the more costly items. I my honest opinion, I personally think that the entire in-game financial system (such as the market) needs an overhaul. That's something I'd love to see.

 

+1 from me. :)

[Dunkingmachine]

Do you have all the prime mods maxed btw?  

 

Has anyone maxed all the prime mods (not using Legendary cores)?

 

Nah i don't. Most of them aren't just worth it imo, i've level'd the "nice to have" ones (flow, reach, heated charge) to 8-9, maxed contuinity. I'm not a "completionist", i think it's a rather stupid thing to just consume everything just because it exists, others will see that different ofc. I always keep enough cores to be able to instantly max 1-2 primed mods though in case the trader releases them.

[Sifu]

Nah i don't. Most of them aren't just worth it imo, i've level'd the "nice to have" ones (flow, reach, heated charge) to 8-9, maxed contuinity. I'm not a "completionist", i think it's a rather stupid thing to just consume everything just because it exists, others will see that different ofc. I always keep enough cores to be able to instantly max 1-2 primed mods though in case the trader releases them.

 

Well well well, is it words from someone who claimed to get 2 prime mods maxed within 2 weeks with ease? :D

 

And about 2 prime mods worth in cores -  proof with screenshot or you know whats your words will be worth if you wont.

 

 

But well, I know you will say something like "bla-bla-lba I dont owe you a thing and I dont need to prove anything to you, Founder who have loads of plat" 

Edited March 7, 2015 by Vicious_D

[SoyMalone]

Well well well, is it words from someone who claimed to get 2 prime mods maxed within 2 weeks with ease? :D

 

And about 2 prime mods worth in cores -  proof with screenshot or you know whats your words will be worth if you wont.

 

 

But well, I know you will say something like "bla-bla-lba I dont owe you a thing and I dont need to prove anything to you, Founder who have loads of plat" 

 

After having shown farming logic backed up with screenshots on how you could farm cores the sheer fact that he hasn't done this to max all the Primed mods doesn't make the point invalid, it just makes your perception flawed. 

[Onisa]

After having shown farming logic backed up with screenshots on how you could farm cores the sheer fact that he hasn't done this to max all the Primed mods doesn't make the point invalid, it just makes your perception flawed. 

To be technical the screenshots were of 'casual play' not the farming numbers he had been posting. There was also some weedling involved in their postage, and that may or may not affect their impact based on personal opinion.

[SoyMalone]

To be technical the screenshots were of 'casual play' not the farming numbers he had been posting. There was also some weedling involved in their postage, and that may or may not affect their impact based on personal opinion.

That is certainly fair enough. What I was getting at however was that his objection just because Dunking hasn't taken that method to its ultimate end doesn't invalidate the premise -