Where Are The Press 4 To Win Bashers Now?

[Kamiyadori]

I did it with 4 Lokis. Pressing 2 and 4 was all we did :3

[DLDeath]

You guys are silly, why didn't you press all the other buttons while doing the event?  I did and it made it actually fun.

[DLDeath]

Joins random PUG game with Mag.

Gets scolded by team: "GTFO noob" "Get a proper 4" "L2p scrub"

Proceeds to fling enemies around whole map with pull.

Pulls enemies to teammates while they are capping points for the disrespect.

Pulls enemies to a Rhino Prime and watches him die because Rhino Prime elitist f@gs be looking down on Mag.

Number of times 4 was pressed: 0

This is just funny. lol.

[Monybags33]

God back too the "press 4 to win" line again, I get your trying too smugly insult these players but its just not working out. Eye for a eye is the best advice here....

[Cinereal]

My team was entirely reliant on abilities, but I was using all of mine, not just disarm (I thinking bringing ID actually made our lives more difficult). I probably used my decoy the most just because it kept getting one-shot. I probably could have been part of a team comp that would have entirely trivialized the alert, but we all had our hands full reviving each other and luring enemies away from points.

 

It was a lot of fun, actually. In a weird way, it put me on the same footing as my newb friend who we brought along, who made really resourceful use of an Excalibur with no power-modifying mods and contributed a ton to the team.

 

Not that you wouldn't be able to compose a team that could sit in the middle using the same move over and over while the players afk, but being ability centered can be fun and challenging.

[RFaul]

It was interesting... it did not require high mastery rank or nothing... in fact just scindo/galatine and a proper 4 spamming frame could finish the alert. I wonder if raids will be like that.

[Sev7n]

 

If you think using warframe abilities "completely trivializes" the alert, then I am very interested to see a video from you doing said alert without using any warframe abilities.  It would be far too challenging for me, but I'm sure you've got the skills to pay the bills.

It's the ignorant comments such as this that hurt the arguments of spamming abilities being "ok".

 

My comment was only 3 lines, if you would have read just the first 2 you would have seen that i was commenting about the power spam trivializing the content and not because players decide to use their abilities.

 

I never once said that players shouldn't be using their powers and i never once said that powers are not needed for completing content. So the argument you provided that i have quoted is irrelevant for the fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with my previous statement.

[geninrising]

Maybe the OP is confused on what the event actually proved

 

Which is that power use is out of control since even at lvl 100+ enemies; power spam can completely trivialize the content. 

 

DE should be able to see from this event that they wont be able to create any challenge for us as long as were able to continue power spam

I'm just gonna leave this here.

and drop my own bit as well

 

Ability Spam

 

This is quite a controversial topic in it's own right due to the fact that some players feel entitled to be able to mass nuke whole rooms at the press of a button.  Players feel that because they CAN do this and it is the most efficient means of handling enemies it is a valid playstyle decision. 

 

When a mechanic allows a player to reliably destroy all enemies in a given mission potentially prior to another player being able to take any action given mission is obviously broken. What to do about this is still up in the air due to the fact that P42W supporters do not see that as a problem. The fact that they have the choice as to whether or not to ALLOW another person the ability to take part in said action is flawed.

 

This again feeds into my concern of balance within the game, yes each frame should be unique and have a niche, however abuse of energy mechanics and abuse of min/maxing mechanics are potentially hazardous to the longevity of the game as I have stated before in our p42w conversations.

 

My fears regarding this matter coincide with the paradoxical behavior of DE Steve in his statements that the "Viver" playstyle (which is p42w) is "exploiting an energy loophole". Then down the pipe comes Primed continuity and Primed flow. Soon to be followed by prime streamline and prime stretch I'm sure.

 

This seems to condemn with one breath and then support with the next, thus bringing up my concern for DE's integrity.

 

 

How ability spam is being addressed by DE

 

The idea of combating ability spam with new in game elements versus implementing a cooldown or nerfing of energy efficiency, is actually a positive idea in some respects as it still allows freedom of playstyle but also requires a good bit of skill be thrown into the mix in order to maintain use of said abilities. However my concern is how all these changes utterly destroy a newer players ability to use said skills at all due to various drains and lack of requisite mods to combat the drains.

 

We currently have energy siphon and 75% efficiency that helps us to continue doing what we do in the face of these drainers of various kinds, however newer players have no such luck and are hit below the belt with these implementations thus creating a larger gap in our playability of the game.

 

As I stated before in another post I recently started an account to see what it was like for a new player and honestly even with someone to carry me it was not fun at all facing eximus units or nullifiers and especially not parasitic(those are the aoe energy drainers, Disrupters cast an aura that reduces radial and power damage received by nearby allies. Its attack will reduce shields and drain all energy, while Attacks of linked nearby allies will deal extra damage to shielding and drain a little of your energy with each strike). 

 

Add to that tar moas and Ancient Healers reducing damage to all their allies(which can all spawn as parasitic type) makes infested currently nearly unplayable at all for newer players(and the other factions more or less the same, infested just feel like the worst offender to me ATM). The only reason I am able to do it at all is full situational awareness and target prioritizing as well as mastery of the movement systems in place which allows me the ability to simply out manoeuvre them.

 

All of these things implemented to counter our Farming methods are insanely detrimental to a newer player and make the game nearly unplayable unless someone carries you on their back.

 

If they could somehow balance these things on a per player basis it might be completely beneficial or perhaps do not include said enemies if players have less than X amount of energy efficiency, but that would be weighting enemies against certain players and I am against weighting anything in anyone's favor.

 

I know that sounds ironic considering I advocate removing the ability to spam to the extent it is currently utilized but the ability to spam is the impetus for these other methods the DEvs are producing to combat our abilities. This in turn is CRIPPLING our new players.

 

The way Energy spam could easily be addressed.

Meter our 4th ability in an entirely different way than energy usage. ENERGY is the source of the problem with ULTS. Not their range/damage/effect. Constant unending ACCESS, and while removing energy packs could alleviate this Trinity makes that idea useless. So without removing access to energy a separate gating mechanic is needed.

[Acos]

This event highlighted many of the issues I have with difficulty in the game. I made a few posts about it. OP apparently doesn't read the forums as often as I do if he missed a similar sentiment from the community. 

I say this every time we talk about crowd control: We need some kind of diminishing returns associated with it so you can't simply spam our "stop everything from fighting back" ability indefinitely. Clearly energy is no longer fulfilling that role. The suggestion I usually suggest is that enemies grow resistance to crowd control effects the more often they are applied to them. Full duration the first hit, 2/3 of that the second, 1/3 for the third, and then it stops affecting them entirely.

 

Once that is done (and something needs doing) I wouldn't mind seeing our "tank" options brought up a bit, as crowd control is simultaneously absolutely powerful and the only reliable method of survival. 

 

This event handily demonstrates all of this. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Acos

[Kaotyke]

1 Loki, 1 Banshee, 1 Nova, 1 Nyx.

 

Loki Press 4 if we hear a gunshot (Efficiency + Range)

Nova Pressses 4 every time we see a normal moving enemy (Duration + Strenght)

Nyx Presses 3 every 30 seconds (Efficiency + Duration)

Banshee presses 1 for every enemy group in the points (Range + Efficiency)

 

We all get to a high place and watch the slowmo movie.

[Chhkt]

 

Actually a whole lot of people seem to care, but they shouldn't since it's just a game.

[.ERO.]

Press 4 baby seems mad?

[Pavelord]

I think they could make tactical alerst have the conclave requirement and possibly implement a ban on the 3rd and 4th power or make it gun and blade completely.

[JakeRobber]

i stood pretty still spamming disarm. p42w is alive and well still!

 

You lazy son of a...  I used Loki and got 72% of the damage.  How anyone could resist using Breaking Bull though all those Eximus Grineer is beyond me.  

 

 

I got halfway through the first wave, realised what I was doing, left the game and haven't played since.

I'd rather miss out on a fancy sigil than compromise my own integrity

 

I've always agreed with your stance on campy camp tactics (it's boring), but you don't have to play this alert this way.  I mean, good luck getting people to play that way with you, but nonetheless, it's very possible.

[HalcyonH66]

This tac alert has made a lot of these previous arguments just die.  everyone high and low vets to newbs pressing 4 to win such fallacy  what a turn of events..

 

 nice job DE that was one helluva trolling welcomed, good job.

M8y I pressed 2 to win...trinity here :P

 

Additionally in a normal mission that does not have insane difficulty someone spamming 4 with a full saryn build simply means that no one except her gets to kill anything and thus you're all just running to the exit/sitting around. People like killing things and when they don't get to it's boring.

 

In this event we were faced with incredibly high level enemies that even with 4x corrosive projection took a little bit to kill as we had to be under 400 conclave. Due to this it would be VERY difficult to beat the event by trying to outdps the enemies and kill them constantly like you can in the 1st 2 stages of the Phoenix Intercept with level 25 and 35s. People tried the usual kill everything tactic, it didn't work and thus they resorted to CC. If you think that people employing skill spam tactics in order to creatively beat something they normally couldn't is a bad thing then I'm confused as to your reasoning.

 

Summary: In a normal mission where you can kill things it's not fun if one person spams one ability and gets all the kills. In a mission which is so hard that you can't really win by killing things I don't see how anyone is being cheated out of enjoying any gameplay.

[Neogeo]

This event highlighted many of the issues I have with difficulty in the game. I made a few posts about it. OP apparently doesn't read the forums as often as I do if he missed a similar sentiment from the community. 

I say this every time we talk about crowd control: We need some kind of diminishing returns associated with it so you can't simply spam our "stop everything from fighting back" ability indefinitely. Clearly energy is no longer fulfilling that role. The suggestion I usually suggest is that enemies grow resistance to crowd control effects the more often they are applied to them. Full duration the first hit, 2/3 of that the second, 1/3 for the third, and then it stops affecting them entirely.

 

Once that is done (and something needs doing) I wouldn't mind seeing our "tank" options brought up a bit, as crowd control is simultaneously absolutely powerful and the only reliable method of survival. 

 

This event handily demonstrates all of this. 

Well then, player need to have some form of damage mitigate in return. You can't simply the nerf the only efficient way and give nothing in return. It's easy to nerf, it's harder to balance the system. I am sorry to said the tank option doesn't fit warframe, this is not an MMORPG, we don't need the holy trinity bullS#&$. Then there's GW2 way ot damage mitigation, aka running around like a headless chicken, while waiting for your cc to refresh. That's not fun at all.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Neogeo

[Acos]

Well then, player need to have some form of damage mitigate in return. You can't simply the nerf the only efficient way and give nothing in return. It's easy to nerf, it's harder to balance the system. I am sorry to said the tank option doesn't fit warframe, this is not an MMORPG, we don't need the holy trinity bullS#&$. Then there's GW2 way ot damage mitigation, aka running around like a headless chicken, while waiting for your cc to refresh. That's not fun at all.

 

Ideally personal damage mitigation options would be brought up; Absolute crowd control is simultaneously the only way to play the game as we lack other forms of useful damage mitigation and is also one of the primary reasons that the game becomes so easy with its' inclusion. This event was, obviously, quite an extreme example of what crowd control is capable of and I think there's a significant lesson to be taken from these tactical alerts that our strategies are almost always the same; lock everything down so it can't move, then chip away at its' hit points until its' dead. 

 

There needs to be a point where we can't just cheese every encounter by using infinite crowd control options to keep level 150+ enemies held indefinitely. Clearly the game is not challenging if enemies that can one shot us can be 100% mitigated by a single player. It shouldn't take a huge leap in logic to see how that can be problematic in "normal" gameplay.  

 

As for the rest of your argument I'm not sure what you're talking about as it's not my intention to turn this into another modern fantasy MMO. I'm not sure where you got that idea? 

GW2's problem is that it tried too hard to abandon the "Holy Trinity" in order to be more appealing. The "Holy Trinity" is really just a game development philosphy that classes should have strengths and weaknesses to encourage players to team up in order to accomplish goals. Most online co-operative games have some semblance of this if you look hard enough. The characters in GW2 are so entirely self-sufficient that nobody really needs to develop strategies or tactics around each other, so most of it plays out like how you described; dodging around like a headless chicken until your powers are off cooldown, not really interested in what the other people on your "team" are doing. 

 

Which isn't to say I dislike GW2. I found it enjoyable. That's not really what my post was about either though. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by Acos

[PookieNumnums]

They are hating on other ultimate moves in some lame f2p forums

[FierceRadiance]

We used 4 Lokis, and hardly used our Ults at all.  Just once or twice a round, to provide us with entertainment so we could watch them beating the snot outta each other. 

 

Instead, we spammed Invisibility, which really isn't spamming for a Loki - it's what Lokis do.

 

But I have to say, I'm also not sure what all the pissing is about.  This was a fairly difficult challenge, until you put some thought into it.  If this wasn't a good enough reason to lean on your 'frame's Ult.....what would be a good enough reason?  Do some players really believe that Ults should be seen but not used?

 

Really?

[Psychus]

Except in the alert you could abuse it, yes, but you needed a lot more than press 4 to win. I mean, you think those level 150 enemies gave a S#&$ about your radial javelin or any other damage dealing ultimate? lol noooope. I think that currently, the game is a little geared towards powers, yes, but it's not nearly as bad as people seem to think it is. 

[-ODIN-Bibimbap]

This is a pointless thread? I mean you had to go into the mission with 400 conclave or less
what you're going to take on a level 120 with a rank 0 Galantine? Yeah real likely, P4TW FTW

+ It DID require stragegy, took my squad about 5 tries to get the frames right, ended up rolling with Loki, Frost, Trinity and Excal

[Neogeo]

Ideally personal damage mitigation options would be brought up; Absolute crowd control is simultaneously the only way to play the game as we lack other forms of useful damage mitigation and is also one of the primary reasons that the game becomes so easy with its' inclusion. This event was, obviously, quite an extreme example of what crowd control is capable of and I think there's a significant lesson to be taken from these tactical alerts that our strategies are almost always the same; lock everything down so it can't move, then chip away at its' hit points until its' dead.

There needs to be a point where we can't just cheese every encounter by using infinite crowd control options to keep level 150+ enemies held indefinitely. Clearly the game is not challenging if enemies that can one shot us can be 100% mitigated by a single player. It shouldn't take a huge leap in logic to see how that can be problematic in "normal" gameplay.

As for the rest of your argument I'm not sure what you're talking about as it's not my intention to turn this into another modern fantasy MMO. I'm not sure where you got that idea?

So you don't have a solution to damage mitigation problem. You just wanted to nerf it because you think absolute crowd control abilities are OP. This is the reason I bring up holy trinity and GW2. To give you a clue how the other mmo handle the damage mitigation. In case you still don't get it, this is the list of formula that work for multi-player game.

1. The Holy Trinity

2. Guild War 2 approach. Relying on kiting with cc on cooldown.

3. The average shooter way. No damage mitigation. Either kill or be killed.

4. The cover shooter way. Hide behind terrain and try to take down your enemy.

5. The warframe way. 100% guarantee crowd control.

Sure you can nerf the reliability of the CC but you still need choose from one of the option above to keep the game balance. As you said yourself, the enemy in this game are powerful enough to one shot the player character. The absolute cc abilities are the only viable method to counter that overpower-ness. You can't just nerf the cc without giving something back in return.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Neogeo

[(XBOX)Xentryk]

I won't apologize for pressing 4 to win. Of course, my 4 was Radial Disarm, and did not kill or even wound the enemies affected. All it did was allow my team a fighting chance against the extremely high level opposition. Everybody still had to get their blades dirty playing the game, finding enemies, using attacks, dodging. The disdain and disgust for a "press 4 to win" lifestyle is specifically those abilities which remove gameplay by auto-massacring enemies in a way that prevents any kind of interaction or engagement.

Radial Disarm does do damage and at maximum strength can destroy entire platoons of heavy marines. Have you even seen a loki in pvp?

[(PSN)eatengeese]

Does swiping left to win count?