Loki Is Just Too Strong

[-InV-igo95862]

Check the wiki, it says 300.

 

Its duration is slightly shorter, but it also has an aoe stagger. Not everyone builds Ash around blade storm.

 

Infested were changed a while back to compensate for fancy decoy placement. If they can't reach it after a certain amount of time they will switch to another source of aggro, meaning you. Ancients can drag you off your perch and ranged infested can hit you unless you disarm them. Loki is near the bottom of the list of frames to take against infested.

 

It is 150 last time I used Raksa several days ago. From comments on wiki it seems that restore is percentage based. Maybe if you have more shields more it will restore.

 

Stagger Aoe is negligible as it only stuns for half a second. If you go Narrow Minded then AoE of stagger becomes really low. (if you put Overextended to compensate damage from Blade Storm suffers) Another disadvatage is that you can't cast it in air and animation is longer then Loki invis.

 

They can't switch if you are invisible. Sitting on this point you can collect all the energy orbs and never run out of mana. (plus Synoid procs)

 

There are far worse warframes against infested. Take Frost for example: Snowglobe will only block allies bullets, damage is weak due cold resistances against Infested.  Most of the nuke frames are terrible against high level infested. Ancients Healers and Ancient Disruptor nullifers your damage from nukes. If you try to come close and take out Ancients you risk of getting perma stunned between grapling hooks and Moas.

[Kihana]

on this note; I love how OP is complaining about loki but not valkyr, you know, the frame with literally non stop invincibility.

 

Hardly. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/406917-valkyr-20/

 

Other frames do Valkyr's job better than Valkyr now.

[SquirmyBurrito]

It is 150 last time I used Raksa several days ago. From comments on wiki it seems that restore is percentage based. Maybe if you have more shields more it will restore.

 

Stagger Aoe is negligible as it only stuns for half a second. If you go Narrow Minded then AoE of stagger becomes really low. (if you put Overextended to compensate damage from Blade Storm suffers) Another disadvatage is that you can't cast it in air and animation is longer then Loki invis.

 

They can't switch if you are invisible. Sitting on this point you can collect all the energy orbs and never run out of mana. (plus Synoid procs)

 

There are far worse warframes against infested. Take Frost for example: Snowglobe will only block allies bullets, damage is weak due cold resistances against Infested.  Most of the nuke frames are terrible against high level infested. Ancients Healers and Ancient Disruptor nullifers your damage from nukes. If you try to come close and take out Ancients you risk of getting perma stunned between grapling hooks and Moas.

 

Thaw out a Raksa and prove the wiki is wrong. Wiki says 300 and while I am open to the idea of the wiki being wrong, I'm not going to believe that without proof.

 

It stuns longer than half a second. Smoke Screen also only costs 35 energy at base while Invisibility costs 50 energy at base. Can you prove the animation for smoke screen is longer? Also as I said before, not everyone builds their ash around blade storm.

 

If you're invisible, your entire point becomes moot. I can deal with infested far easier with other frames Setting up a decoy and waiting for enemies to slowly meander towards you (often getting stuck standing around in other parts of the map) takes longer. Since when is the synoid an inherent part of Loki?

 

Frost can slow the infested, not sure if snow globe blocks infested projectiles. Nuke frames can deal with Ancients the same way Loki does, and then clean up all the fodder with their nukes far faster than Loki. "If you try to come close[...]" you don't need to get close to kill an ancient or a moa.

Edited March 10, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[-InV-igo95862]

 

 

It stuns longer than half a second. Smoke Screen also only costs 35 energy at base while Invisibility costs 50 energy at base. Can you prove the animation for smoke screen is longer? Also as I said before, not everyone builds their ash around blade storm.

 

 

Frost can slow the infested, not sure if snow globe blocks infested projectiles. Nuke frames can deal with Ancients the same way Loki does, and then clean up all the fodder with their nukes far faster than Loki. "If you try to come close[...]" you don't need to get close to kill an ancient or a moa.

 

Stagger is extremely short and does not scale with duration. Smoke screen is still less effective in mana against Invisibility. 35/8 = 4.375 mana per second , 50/12 = 4.16 mana per second.

 

Snowglobe does not block tar moa and swarm moa attack, nor does it block mutalist osprey. Toxix Crawlers will still release their clouds if you kill them inside. With Loki you can guarantee safe attack position without being dragged by hookshots.

 

Pure nuke frames like Ember will get perma stunned by Ancients and hookshots. With Loki you will basically never get hit by them.

 

I just run today a 25 minutes survival on Ceres dark sector against infested and never got hit once. The only real danger was toxic eximus (not toxic ancient).

[SquirmyBurrito]

Stagger is extremely short and does not scale with duration. Smoke screen is still less effective in mana against Invisibility. 35/8 = 4.375 mana per second , 50/12 = 4.16 mana per second.

 

Snowglobe does not block tar moa and swarm moa attack, nor does it block mutalist osprey. Toxix Crawlers will still release their clouds if you kill them inside. With Loki you can guarantee safe attack position without being dragged by hookshots.

 

Pure nuke frames like Ember will get perma stunned by Ancients and hookshots. With Loki you will basically never get hit by them.

 

I just run today a 25 minutes survival on Ceres dark sector against infested and never got hit once. The only real danger was toxic eximus (not toxic ancient).

 

I never said it was long or that it scaled with duration. It is still longer lasting than the non-existent stagger that Invisibility has. The difference is negligible.

 

Do you have proof for the underlined? Snow Globe slows enemies, which kinda neuters infested.

 

It is harder to get perma stunned by ancients than it is to accidentally avoid their hookshots. If you find yourself having too much trouble they can be neutered with handspring. 

 

And you think a Frost/nuking frame couldn't replicate your feat?

[Xardis]

I feel that this post is about utility in general. Loki is THE BEST warframe in utility. I feel the same way about utility as many people here - there is a need for more utility in other frames, not less in Loki. The main problem is that DE doesnt see this and tries to fix this issue by augments when they should change the core of ability and augments should only add small aditions to them.

[Monolake]

Actually, Ember will keep them permastunned with Accelerant and heat procs, but, you know...

 

Which means they's officially ok with it being a farming ability that hits the whole map.  What a great game it's shaping up to be!

Accelerant stun has too short duration to permastun anything. 

 

I cant speak for DE, but sometimes they show lack of understanding of their own game, they obviously don't play it much and dont know how people play it 'efficiently' unless something blows up allover the forums ei event results or things like vivergate.

[RealPandemonium]

Accelerant stun has too short duration to permastun anything. 

Spam it enough and you will achieve the desired effect.  It's crazy how players don't appreciate CC that isn't hands-free.  I used to think that this was because they were talking about the necessity of locking down level 100+mobs in infinite content but lately I have begun to suspect that they're just lazy and care more about rewards than actual gameplay.

[Monolake]

Spam it enough and you will achieve the desired effect.  It's crazy how players don't appreciate CC that isn't hands-free.  I used to think that this was because they were talking about the necessity of locking down level 100+mobs in infinite content but lately I have begun to suspect that they're just lazy and care more about rewards than actual gameplay.

it's a ~2-4 sec stagger depending on enemy and animation, it's not viable for perma CC at high levels even you have Trinity for endless energy.

[(XBOX)xDROx]

Every Warframe, If played correctly can be a viable solo option. 

[izzatuw]

Every Warframe, If played correctly can be a viable solo option.

Looks at Limbo. Nah, he requires a large amount of teamwork to do stuff.

Well if you mean quik missions like cap than yes. Endless like survival and defense nay.

Edited March 11, 2015 by izzatuw

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

I was running around with him soloing some Syndicate missions last night.  He's awesome... until that moment you run out of invisibility, have no energy left and someone turns and blows you to kingdom come.  He's a utility beast, but he gets folded in half rapidly if not using those skills. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

Looks at Limbo. Nah, he requires a large amount of teamwork to do stuff.

Well if you mean quik missions like cap than yes. Endless like survival and defense nay.

 

Limbo can solo better than most frames. As long as you don't tack an exaggerated number on it, he should be able to do the trick. Most teams that involve limbo hinge around him, not the other way around. Some team set ups need limbo, limbo doesn't need them.

I can and have solo'd survival and defense missions with Limbo.

[dragonkingdx]

Limbo can solo better than most frames. As long as you don't tack an exaggerated number on it, he should be able to do the trick. Most teams that involve limbo hinge around him, not the other way around. Some team set ups need limbo, limbo doesn't need them.

I can and have solo'd survival and defense missions with Limbo.

If you have played limbo you would know he is horrible at taking damage like loki. Slightly more HP and shield but just as easily killed. o.o tried doing the limbo quest line (the excavation mission for the helm) with a friend with my limbo managed to get 1 shot the second I exited the rift. (literally was like half a sec to quickly pick up a few items)  Limbo is a troll but he absolutely needs the team more than the team needs him.

 

Yes he is invincible while in the rift but he lacks all manner of CC. Only way he can be effective is being in the rift casting cataclysm a decent distance away and shooting inside the bubble.(could use 3 for extra damage) However beyond that he lacks survivability outside the rift and will still draw aggro when in the rift. So beyond using the cataclysm from a distance all you can really do is banish people 1 by one or use a charged weap (paris prime/opticor/orgis etc) and charge, cancel rift walk, let the shot fly the second it ends, and get back in rift walk. limbo soloing only really counts for the times when there is no need to kill enemies or defend something

Edited March 11, 2015 by dragonkingdx

[SquirmyBurrito]

If you have played limbo you would know he is horrible at taking damage like loki. Slightly more HP and shield but just as easily killed. o.o tried doing the limbo quest line (the excavation mission for the helm) with a friend with my limbo managed to get 1 shot the second I exited the rift. (literally was like half a sec to quickly pick up a few items)  Limbo is a troll but he absolutely needs the team more than the team needs him.

 

Yes he is invincible while in the rift but he lacks all manner of CC. Only way he can be effective is being in the rift casting cataclysm a decent distance away and shooting inside the bubble.(could use 3 for extra damage) However beyond that he lacks survivability outside the rift and will still draw aggro when in the rift. So beyond using the cataclysm from a distance all you can really do is banish people 1 by one or use a charged weap (paris prime/opticor/orgis etc) and charge, cancel rift walk, let the shot fly the second it ends, and get back in rift walk. limbo soloing only really counts for the times when there is no need to kill enemies or defend something

 

I have played Limbo, not sure why you'd assume otherwise given what I said in my previous post. I never said he wasn't squishy like Loki either. Please do not tell me things that I already know. I did the escalation mission with my Limbo, took a few hits everytime I left the Rift and I didn't go down. What level was your Limbo? Limbo's trolling abilities have mostly been killed off. Now the worst thing he can do is place cataclysm over loot or other cataclysm based things. No, he doesn't need a team. Step your game up. 

 

You don't need large amounts of CC when you're invincible. And banishing enemies knocks them down as long as they're not already in a CC recovery animation or doing their ground slam. He lacks survivability in the same way old Trinity lacked survivability, yeah when his ability ended he was left weak and exposed, but you could always just cast it again. Drop cataclysm away from enemies, take off and then re-cast rift walk, end cataclysm. Banishing enemies one at a time works for a LONG time, especially when paired with a powerful melee weapon and a ground finisher. The cataclysm method is all you should ever really need since you can take it off whenever you want by pressing 4 again. Step your game up, I can solo all mission types barring hijack, which I never tired because I hate that mission type. Need to defend something? Cataclysm. Need to kill something? Cataclysm+Rift Walk. Need to kill something that is a much higher level? Cataclysm+Rift Surge+Rift Walk. If you have trouble killing enemies while playing Limbo, there is something wrong with how you're going about playing as Limbo.

[(PSN)TonberryFeye]

Loki is not overpowered. Loki is a force multiplier. His strength lies in making everyone else powerful. Vaubahn or Rhino need to clump enemies up? Disarm and Decoy to the rescue! Ally needs reviving? Not a problem with invisibility.

But for all his abilities to evade foes, cheat death and perform crowd ccontrol, Loki isn't actually that good at killing enemies. He really needs other stronger frames to exploit the opportunities he creates.

[EX-Zanki]

Hey other warframes are in need (some of them desperate) of attention (nyx, nekros, excal, volt,  you named it) and we are fixed on a warframe that works good... yeah its easier to nerf a good warframe to the ground than buffing the others, all in order to be equal to the above mentioned... that's utter bullfrog...

 

By the way anyone that says "IMO they are fine" better explain, one trick ponies, useless abilities (i'm not saying situational). This is getting really annoying at least to me...

 

Sorry for the mostly off topic post...but this has like twelve pages and other topics refering other frames have like three or less...

Edited March 11, 2015 by EX-Zanki

[RealPandemonium]

it's a ~2-4 sec stagger depending on enemy and animation, it's not viable for perma CC at high levels even you have Trinity for endless energy.

Uh, if you have Trinity for endless energy you could just press 2 repeatedly and enemies would never move.  It's also 1-4 seconds, not 2-4.  

 

Hey other warframes are in need (some of them desperate) of attention (nyx, nekros, excal, volt,  you named it)

Apparently Volt is in desperate need of a fix.  News to me!  Stay golden, forum buff warriors.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Uh, if you have Trinity for endless energy you could just press 2 repeatedly and enemies would never move.  It's also 1-4 seconds, not 2-4.  

 

Apparently Volt is in desperate need of a fix.  News to me!  Stay golden, forum buff warriors.

 

To be fair, Volt's ult could use some looking at.

[izzatuw]

Limbo can solo better than most frames. As long as you don't tack an exaggerated number on it, he should be able to do the trick. Most teams that involve limbo hinge around him, not the other way around. Some team set ups need limbo, limbo doesn't need them.

I can and have solo'd survival and defense missions with Limbo.

Huh, My solo butt is really crusty, never solo'd much in general :C

[SquirmyBurrito]

Huh, My solo butt is really crusty, never solo'd much in general :C

 

Solo'ing and PUG'ing are all I do. The only time I play with people who I know is when I'm helping newbies or when a friend is on (pretty rare) and invites me. My go-to frame for solo'ing my syndicate dailies is Limbo, unless it is a spy mission type, then I choose Loki (my former ability-less build, no I'm not spamming invisibility the entire time). Not even going to ask about the crusty butt comment.

[izzatuw]

Solo'ing and PUG'ing are all I do. The only time I play with people who I know is when I'm helping newbies or when a friend is on (pretty rare) and invites me. My go-to frame for solo'ing my syndicate dailies is Limbo, unless it is a spy mission type, then I choose Loki (my former ability-less build, no I'm not spamming invisibility the entire time). Not even going to ask about the crusty butt comment.

I can't recall the last time I solo'd a high wave/length survival/defense.

Survival gets irritating when you keep worrying about LS. I prefer Loki for solo purposes unless it was a capture mission.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I can't recall the last time I solo'd a high wave/length survival/defense.

Survival gets irritating when you keep worrying about LS. I prefer Loki for solo purposes unless it was a capture mission.

 

Solo'ing long survivals is more bearable if you remember to set yourself to solo (so you can pause and take a break every now and again) otherwise it gets boring really fast. I have a bad habit of ignoring the life support percentage and having to rush to get more. After having played this game for so long, I tend to zone out while I play, survival forces me to pay attention which means I get bored faster. Kinda sucks but I've been playing for a long time and I'm not about to stop any time soon if I have any say in the matter.

[Rankii]

I feel that this post is about utility in general. Loki is THE BEST warframe in utility. I feel the same way about utility as many people here - there is a need for more utility in other frames, not less in Loki. The main problem is that DE doesnt see this and tries to fix this issue by augments when they should change the core of ability and augments should only add small aditions to them.

This. Loki is fine. If anything he's one of the few frames they got right on the first try since all of his abilities are useful. They need to fix the other frames so that it's not just spamming one ability all the time. The augments are an interesting way but again, like you said, the core abilities are what are in desperate need of reworking. I mean look at Mag. Poor, poor mag.

[Broseidon1]

I play loki quite a bit and I do agree with most of what you said but seriously come on. Shh.