Reddit Has It Right With These U16 Stealth Nerfs.

[Speedingbus]

Funny.

 

 

Properly made thread in Feedback section will get more attention from devs than similar one made in General Discussion.

Tell that to big R5 core nerf thread when DERebecca locked it listed what are issues were and DE totally addressed those issues.... oh wait.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Nerf = Punishment (is not fix)

 

If i was a bad boy, i will be a good boy i swear.

 

I was joking, i am a good boy.

[RoboDoge]

Tell that to big R5 core nerf thread when DERebecca locked it listed what are issues were and DE totally addressed those issues.... oh wait.

I am not defending DE here, my warning points can vouch for me not being a whiteknight, but some of choices were good also. You cannot judge them on one part of the game, they are parts where they make good additions based on community feedback.

 

 

Look at the latest PvP changes.

[unknow99]

Don't feed the troll.

Yeah, don't give him too much creddit...

[RFaul]

 

Please, listen to the community.

 

Seriously I don't get it. DE did exactly that. Listened to the community. The changes to Radial Javelin? After so much feed back about Viver in the past and then history repeating itself with Draco?

 

Sinnoid Gammacor? There are a lot of people saying on these boards the nerf was needed.

 

In fact the cause of the problem, imo, is exactly that.

 

I believe player feedback must be carefully considered, by trying to weight  opinions on player actual experience rather than impression. Issues regarding a complaining player should be cleared:

 

Does the player own the weapon/frame?

Has the player taken some time upgrading mods and the weapon?

For how long did the player use the weapon in different scenarios after upgrading it ?

Edited March 21, 2015 by RFaul

[SweetSlaanesh]

This update really seems like DE is being outright hostile to the community.

[RoboDoge]

This update really seems like DE is being outright hostile to the community.

Nah, that was U15 and all the rage created after it.

[SweetSlaanesh]

Seriouysly I don't get it. DE did exactly that. Listened to the community. The changes to Radial Javelin? After so much feed back about Viver in the past and then history repeating itself with Draco?

 

Sinnoid Gammakor? There are a lot of people saying on these boards the nerf was needed.

 

In fact the cause of the problem, imo, is exactly that.

 

I believe player feedback must be carefully considered, by trying to weight  opinions on player actual experience rather than impression. Issues regarding a complaining player should be cleared:

 

Does the player own the weapon/frame?

Has the player taken some time upgrading mods and the weapon?

For how long did the player use the weapon after upgrading it in different scenarios?

 

The community did not ask for the Gammacor's damage to be nerfed by 90 percent and ammo consumption rate to be increased by 750 percent.

Being a dev apologist/whiteknight isn't going to get you any sweet Steve poon.

[Husla]

Just blabbers and kid's dramas. YAY

Dudes, politics are stealing your life, REAL LIFE is where you should become more active.

I'm disappointed in you, where's all the bold/italics in your post. You're not going easy on us are you?

[RFaul]

The community did not ask for the Gammacor's damage to be nerfed by 90 percent and ammo consumption rate to be increased by 750 percent.

Being a dev apologist/whiteknight isn't going to get you any sweet Steve poon.

 

I am not a dev apologist. My intention was only to criticize the reliance on blind player feedback. In fact I believe that player feedback as a trigger for changes in mechanics or balance is a very harmful policy that unfortunately seems to be a standard practice specially in recent MMO games.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

U16 "The punishment... for players"

[Velkazord]

Skills involving mass destruction, need to have a L.O.S. LOGIC, you cant kill or hit what you can't see, specially when you have a wall in the mid of the way, an obstacle or when you r using a skill that dont have aoe damage.

The problem here is not the Javelin nerf, its the time that they did it.

 

The point is: Players will ALWAYS start to look for an alternative, exploits, easier ways to evolve/advance, grown up in the game, THATS THE F******** OBJECTIVE! Why DE keep failing hard? Because they are not reducing the grind, they are removing and making the game harder to play, not solving the problem, reducing the CREDIT/resources drop rates. 600 rare mods to max a mod, 4 million credits ? ...

 

Fixing the overpower Javelin = Correct, The mistake, as i said, was the time to do that.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

It doesn't matter if it's from Fedoraland. You would knew it if you click on it and actually read what it says.

I used to walk around with the mentality that it was Fedoraland as well, but since playing WF especially I've started to find that the gaming side of their community is pretty cool.

Usually now if I go to look for game tips Reddit is actually the first place I check.  

 

 

The community did not ask for the Gammacor's damage to be nerfed by 90 percent and ammo consumption rate to be increased by 750 percent.

Being a dev apologist/whiteknight isn't going to get you any sweet Steve poon.

 Those numbers make my eyes bleed.  Wtf DE

Edited March 21, 2015 by (PS4)lagrue

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

As an outsider on this update, I'm actually dreading U16. I have to admit that the cold damage mod increase is perhaps the biggest nerf since absolutely no one adds a D polarity; and we go out of our way to remove them when DE insists on placing them in slot #1. Having the mod require a D polarity is why they cost less since there are almost no useful mods that have a D. Making these mods cost 11 just ruins builds that players have had for over a year. U16 is just a mess and DE is only making their game into Grindframe. I used to defend DE but this is too much and they deserve the criticism they are getting.

Edited March 21, 2015 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[RoboDoge]

As an outsider on this update, I'm actually dreading U16. I have to admit that the cold damage mod increase is perhaps the biggest nerf since absolutely no one adds a D polarity; and we go out of our way to remove them when DE insists on placing them in slot #1. Having the mod require a D polarity is why they cost less since there are almost no useful mods that have a D. Making these mods cost 11 just ruins builds that players have had for over a year. U16 is just a mess and DE is only making their game into Grindframe. I used to defend DE but this is too much and they deserve the criticism they are getting.

It is not like you cannot relevel your weapon in under 30 minutes.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I think, in Viver gate problem, we were players with more courage to tell DE that they was doing wrong things. (ppl with balls)

 

This generation 2015 is more like: "well, we can do nothing" "is not that bad" "meh"

 

It is just my humble opinion.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Kaiser_Suoh

[RoninJed]

I guess DE hopes nobody realizes anything when they stealth nerf things. What's the point of bragging about updates or patch notes when your not including all the information. Seems really dumb to stealth anything in a open beta game...where the players are encouraged to report any issues.

Edited March 21, 2015 by RoninJed

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

It is not like you cannot relevel your weapon in under 30 minutes.

That's not the point and you know it. Besides, how many weapons do you own? Now consider that not everyone has a stockpile of forma and it has a 24h build time and that is a hefty investment. Besides, DE was content leaving them as a 60% mod for 9 when there were better options for 7 cost. I simply don't see the need for the cost increase when simply having a D polarity is already a penalty.

[Agua]

I'd like to quote another post that someone made on reddit because I feel like he voices my feelings far better than I ever could.

 

[–]UltraMegaMegaMangrinding = content 44 points

5 hours ago

 

all i read from forums is that this game is getting grindier and grindier and that DE has been nerfing all the farm mechanics that can make the game a little easier. What's up with that?

Well, what's up with that is that the game has been getting grindier and grindier, & DE has been nerfing all farm mechanics that can make the game a little easier.

Like if you think the latest AFK implementation where players don't gain energy was added to inhibit people who are actually AFK instead of an intentional nerf to farming then you don't understand warframe.

People in my clan are talking about some nerfs to Excaliburs Radial Javelin, that it's been reverted to line-of-sight or worse than line of sight. I haven't confirmed it but if it's true it sure doesn't surprise me. There are apparently a ton of stealth nerfs undocumented changes in U16.

Long story short, there just isn't much success that DE won't punish. Did you get your redirection mod levelled up? Here's Grineer with 100% accuracy at 300 yards with Grakata and bleed procs. Do your abilities work on bosses? Not anymore they don't. Did you manage to cut the amount of time it takes you to run dailies get syndicate rep to under an hour per day? We'll nerf some Warframes with no warning, create nullifiers, reduce the rep from missions by half and move the remaining xp to a pixel hunt on hugeass levels filled with the aforementioned 100% accuracy Grineer or Nullifiers, and nerf more abilities on top of that. Let's increase the cost of random keys by a factor of 15 while reducing their value to less than what you can get in a level 10 excavation mission, or increase the ammo consumption on a gun by a factor of 7.

Balance is supposed to be a scalpel, and honestly I wouldn't be too upset if DE could restrict themselves to using a large hammer. Unfortunately the current concept of balance at DE is a 16 ton weight dropped from low orbit.

All of this is totally ok with the devs because they don't have to suffer through it. I am as certain as I can be that no high ranking devs actually go through the trouble to hit rep cap and find all the medallions on a daily basis. How could they? Who has the time, in addition to working a full time job?

DE still refuses to realize that none of the players actually want to run macros and sit around with a thumb up our ! for an hour a day to get rep. But it's the only way to do it in a reasonable timeframe. We don't want to sit afk for an hour with Banshee and greedy pull. We don't want to do that, but we have to. It's not the players fault that things are this way. We're just playing the game that the devs made.

The devs don't like it, and we don't either. But it gets harder and harder to get rewards, and the difficulty keeps scaling up, up, up, and it takes more and more time. There are so many missions and instances where it is nigh-impossible to play or win "legitimately". Tier 4 survival. Orokin Derelict Survival. Draco and other interception missions versus high level Grineer.

It would great, nay, FUN if it were possible to play these missions as an interactive game, with gunplay and a judicious use of abilities, and then receive a reasonable reward for your invested time. It isn't, and you don't. If you poke your head out on Draco it will be removed, and if you manage to kill 30 enemies they are replaced with 30 more in 5 seconds or less. So we resort to ridiculous, Rube-Goldbergesque synergy combos to cheese our way through. We're not really playing a game anymore, just theorycrafting and implementing ability algorithms. Then DE nerfs or removes those out of an apparent desire that we should be winning "legitimately" despite the fact that it's impossible, and it starts all over.

Every update the grind gets worse, more time gates get added, more obstacles and costs. And every update DE tries to resolve the causes by addressing the symptoms, and just makes things worse.

months ago, and it's only gotten worse since. In the one aspect that Destiny is probably a better game than Warframe, Bungie actually learned and increased the drop rate of items in order to reduce grinding, promote gameplay, and make players happier. It worked.

Reducing rewards, nerfing every effective ability and strategy, and increasing the grind isn't going to reduce the need to farm and grind. It only increases it. A few streams ago the topic of rep and farming came up and DE Scott said "We want people to actually play the game." My immediate response was "That's funny, because that's exactly what I would say to you."

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2zq1d4/psa_dark_sector_credits_have_been_nerfed_by_50_or/cplgdxa

 

QFT

[Letter13]

Moved to General Feedback.

 

I agree though; not just from a stealth nerf standpoint though.

 

Any unlisted change is a change that shouldn't have happened. If something is being changed in a patch it should get a note (or notes) in the update/patch details.

 

I can understand how some slip through though; from what I understand about DE's development lifecycle, some changes which were just implemented to be tested on the dev build sometimes sneak out into the public build; a careless error or bout of forgetfulness resulting in it not being reverted or removed before the dev build is turned into the public build.

 

It may be more of an internal process that should be addressed for the builds while they're still in development. I don't know the process, but it might be good to document any and every change made (even to the test build) and have the associated changes compiled in a database based on the build number/identifier; and then when the build is moved from a dev build to a public build, all of the changes that have carried through with the dev builds in testing get updated to a spreadsheet which will list more or less every gameplay mechanic change made between the current public build and the previous public build.

[Mak_Gohae]

It frustrates me after reading the credit rewards were cut in half for void missions. Leveling up mods is really expensive and a slow process if your trying to hold onto your credits for other things like market BP, kubrow maintenance, ranking up with syndicates, trading, and building items in your liset.

 

I would like the rewards to stay the same. I like knowing I'm getting, if not close to, 10,000 credits from T1 missions. 

 

Holy crap! I didnt notice this! I didnt notice that i quickly went for having a milly to half that mega quick.

 

Does this just throw the kubrow fixes out the window? It doubles the missions you have to do on top of cutting resources for other things.

That's crazy.

[Jeremythecookie]

It is not like you cannot relevel your weapon in under 30 minutes.

 

Y like all we have to do is craft another forma and relevel it. We got time for that ! All the time in the world. Why work ? Why go outside ? no ! better relevel all your formaed weapons affected by this change. It's fun ! It really is my idea of fun.  And don't worry guys, once you're done with that fun, why don't you go and experience a new layer of fun with the awesomely grindy and brand new Cephalon Syndicate ? The concept is simple : just run a low lvl capture mission ad nauseam. Don't thank DE : It's not a job, they tell you, it's heaven. The kind of heaven you go to after putting bombs in a hotel. 

But wait, there's more ! Plenty of stealth nerfs. can you find them all ? Sadly, they didn't have a sigil to give you for that but if you want an achievements, go grab one or our totally cool arcane enchants ! You're going to love to have a 2.5% chance at becoming invisible after a finisher ! Their devs love it, why wouldn't you ? ahahah ! Have a good one tenno and until the next hotfix. 

Ps : oh and guess what ????? For our new chainsaw melee weapon, you only need to craft two other weapons. Nothing fancy guys ! 

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Moved to General Feedback.

 

I agree though; not just from a stealth nerf standpoint though.

 

Any unlisted change is a change that shouldn't have happened. If something is being changed in a patch it should get a note (or notes) in the update/patch details.

 

I can understand how some slip through though; from what I understand about DE's development lifecycle, some changes which were just implemented to be tested on the dev build sometimes sneak out into the public build; a careless error or bout of forgetfulness resulting in it not being reverted or removed before the dev build is turned into the public build.

 

It may be more of an internal process that should be addressed for the builds while they're still in development. I don't know the process, but it might be good to document any and every change made (even to the test build) and have the associated changes compiled in a database based on the build number/identifier; and then when the build is moved from a dev build to a public build, all of the changes that have carried through with the dev builds in testing get updated to a spreadsheet which will list more or less every gameplay mechanic change made between the current public build and the previous public build.

You are right, changes must exist to improve the game, sadly for some of us, but is true.

 

But, about suspicious nerfs when players find/exploits one "treasure cave" like Draco or Estefano (Viver too). Is a clear intent to impede such efforts.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Kaiser_Suoh

[iamLoveless]

Reddit is usually a better place than the official forums for critical discussion of Warframe. DE heavily moderates these forums and good posts often get buried under fanboys/girls replying to to posts with statements that often amount to something like, "Kids these days!" or, "Entitlement. Any and all points you have made are now rendered null." or(my favorite), "It could be worse, so it's fine!"

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Reddit is usually a better place than the official forums for critical discussion of Warframe. DE heavily moderates these forums and good posts often get buried under fanboys/girls replying to to posts with statements that often amount to something like, "Kids these days!" or, "Entitlement. Any and all points you have made are now rendered null." or(my favorite), "It could be worse, so it's fine!"

I did not know that.

 

I will make my account.