Weren't Snipers Suposed To Get A Buff?

[HardcoreSalmon]

Also it won't matter how much they buff snipers or shotguns if you keep the nullifier damage cap the way it is, they will always be inferior weapon choices.

[CandyDragon]

Snipers seem to be balanced against the existence of primed chamber, but they refuse to distribute that in any meaningful way

Edited April 2, 2015 by Nariala

[HardcoreSalmon]

Snipers seem to be balanced against the existence of primed chamber, but they refuse to distribute that in any meaningful way

 

The vectis is basically the only weapon that it's worth using on and I really hope they don't balance the vectis around that because that is stupid.

[SSI_Guko]

Im sure i remember them buffing snipers awhile ago... it was when they added innate punch-through

[ChameleonDude]

High headshot multipliers, combined with sniper-only mods to further improve this.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

There should be a mod (feature? I don't want to make necessary mods) that allows all of the overkill damage done by snipers to be dealt to the enemies around it (in combination with a damage buff).

Edited April 2, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[KIREEK]

I believe some got a buff already, like the innate punch trough

Can't remember the update, but there was one where they stated the changes to several snipers.

 

Been using Snipetron Vandal on raids alot, the weapon performs great, kill anything in 1 hit, if not then i kill in 2.

Edited April 2, 2015 by KIREEKPSO

[Sunder]

My main problem with the snipers are the "crosshairs" when using the scope.

 

Vectis scope is white and hard to tell where you're aiming sometimes.

[Cohee]

I always thought that bows should receive the "status" bonus.

. Rathee than a crit chance bonus.

Snipers should have the crit and innate punch through...

Vectis cries...

[DeMeritus]

Shotguns are as crappy and near useless as they are now because they used to be powerful.  Players screamed bloody murder over it endlessly demanding nerfs.  Remember hek?  I do.

 

Snipers, anytime that a sniper rifle has been able to be modded into a death machine or one shot kill weapon on low end mobs, piles of players, mostly new ones have complained to the devs and they've been "balanced" to uselessness.  Not that they were actually any good to start with.  They're near trash unless you do one very specific build on them, typically crit.

 

Warframe players call out for buffs in one breath, scream demanding nerfs in the next.

 

Personally, I find using gimped gear ****ing boring.  Some of us want to do something other than run around in Mercury and Venus, and the mk1-strun isn't exactly much fun to use against... say... corrupted Vor or level 70+ corrupted bombards.  But if using a non-catalyzed, non-formaed mk1 series weapon against them is your idea of a good time, then knock yourself out on your "balanced weapon" kick.

 

I think that snipers need a serious buff.

 

I also think that the nerf on shotguns needs to be removed.  Most of them are a joke currently.  Shoot someone across the room with a shotgun and you give them damage equivalent to a papercut, not even a bad papercut.  maybe understandable if we were underwater, but... we're not so far.  Just... remove the damage dropoff.  It's lame, and the knee jerk response to the original hek situation is long gone, though the pointless nerf remains.

 

Why not try to bring most weapons up to having the potential to be modded into something amazing?  Instead potentially fun weapons are nerfed and turned into mastery fodder trash weapons, to be leveled to 30 and then discarded.  (sarcasm) I bet the devs that worked on the weapons are pleased with seeing their work called crap, and treated like garbage. (end sarcasm)  Some weapons have mechanics that could be fun, but the base damage stats are just trash. Everyone loses in this situation, the players just get annoyed, the developers' efforts are wasted on making trash weapons no one wants to use, and it reduces the fun in the game.

 

What a waste of developer effort.  Don't we want more fun and enjoyment in the game, and not less?

 

Balance isn't always equivalent to fun.  Sometimes a little imbalance is actually a lot of fun.

 

Which one draws more people in and keeps them involved, you think?  "Wow, this is a balanced game!" or "Wow, this is a fun game!"

 

Thoughts?  Asides for my needing to not type while falling asleep at the keyboard.

Edited April 3, 2015 by DeMeritus

[Ritchel]

snipers need innate punch thru

FREAKIN B0WS ARE STRONGER :-[

 

 

shotguns is "eh" 

 

before they buff em its U20

Edited April 3, 2015 by Ritchel

[Tulzscha]

General Discussion isn't the place for feedback threads, please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[Bazookagofer]

I don't know why DE is so hesitant to give snipers a massive damage boost, crit boost and crit multiplier boost. Seriously... even with punch through I at most get to kill 4 maybe 5 guys if I am lucky. But Boltor Prime goes around spraying entire rooms down within a fraction of a fraction that a sniper may be able to. Even if they increased damage, crit chance and damage by ludicruous amounts (I am talking about 200%% damage increase, like 100% crit chance and damage increase) they would still be balanced for one reason. These are single target rifles for the most part that even with punch through mods can only hit targets in a straight line for a limited amount. And we are talking about a game in which their can be easily 50-60 enemies in a room. But no DE decides to make uber weapons like BP etc... lol at their balance.

[Noble_Cactus]

I have no idea why DE made bows the crit weapons and not snipers. Like, they're each supposed to be very similar singleshot high-damage weapons, but each fill a different niche. But idk, I feel DE did it wrong making Bows the high crit and punchthrough weapons while leaving snipers in the dust. Personally, I think Snipers should have much higher crit than bows, but bows should have innate punchthrough.

 

Also I feel like for both snipers and bows, when they proc the proc should be applied in a certain AOE radius, due to their single target mechanics.

I feel partially responsible for this, since I was one of the more vocal proponents for bow buffs back in the day.

As for definitive sniper buffs, I'm pretty sure DE announced them and then kind of shoved them under the rug after they upped the stats on the sniper weapons. Significant shotgun buffs, however, have been in the Soon mill for over a year now, with the only change being that falloff now takes damage more into account.

[BluelitHalo]

Plot Twist: DE actually thinks Shotguns and Snipers are fine as they are.

[Bazookagofer]

I feel partially responsible for this, since I was one of the more vocal proponents for bow buffs back in the day.

As for definitive sniper buffs, I'm pretty sure DE announced them and then kind of shoved them under the rug after they upped the stats on the sniper weapons. Significant shotgun buffs, however, have been in the Soon mill for over a year now, with the only change being that falloff now takes damage more into account.

The only buff I remember was a status chance buff for the vectis... a buff that isn't really a buff since it is completely useless in every scenario concerning the vectis because what the vectis and other sniper rifles really need is a damage buff.

[taiiat]

35% Crit Chance should be a baseline.

adding Critical Delay pushes it over 100%. this makes a great Playstyle Preference.

rewarding Accuracy is ofcourse also important. rewarding shots on Weakpoints and such.

let's also please have optics that don't look like arse. to have 'Optics' all we really needed was some Vignetting. what we got instead was overly bright and complicated and actually block vision most of the time, rather than helping the process of aiming. no real world Optic is ever designed to block the sight picture.

i also think that having the Optics be 100% of the screen is overkill - and would like the Optics to have a little bit of peripheral vision (since in reality you use Optics with your face a few inches back from it rather than pressed against it (except for the rubber 'socks' that are used on some Russian Optics) due to user hazard, firing any gun while the Optic is pressed against your eye is asking for a serious injury).

Status is something of an important point to not forget. if you shoot about one shot per second, as opposed to upwards of 10 or 12, Status should be significantly higher to compensate for it. most of the Sniping Weapons in this category aren't high enough IMO.

bonuses for being further away from your targets can't hurt. not just Damage either, can include Status and perhaps some special stuff. same goes for Stealth Kills with Sniper Rifles.

having Sniper Rifles and Bows not both be capable of Crits however - makes for a balance problem. unfortunately, Crits on Weakpoints deal bonus Damage. this is how Bows currently deal extremely high Damage. if other Weapons in that Spike Damage role did not have Crits, they would never be able to compete.

(since Shotguns were also mentioned)

and ofcourse Shotguns shouldn't have Damage Falloff. the low Accuracy already makes their Damage Effectiveness out at longer Ranges very poor anyways. Damage Falloff is redundant.

also let's fix their Status Calculations. it's currently a complete mess.

another big leg is their general lack of uniqueness. a couple of the Shotguns have uniqueness, Kohm and Drakgoon definitely stand out. Boar Prime and Hek, maybe - but probably don't stand out enough. the rest aren't particularly special.

(also Crits and Shotguns don't go together at all, why isn't there even ONE Shotgun that works well with Crits?)

But Bows having higher crit than snipers is definitely backwards.

not necessarily. above i already explained why it wouldn't actually work(Crits on Weakpoints), but in theory, a Sniper Rifle could not be bothered with Crits at all, and a Bow would Crit once in a while. the 'less advanced' Bow would gamble for really big Spike Damage, while the Sniper Rifle just puts out the same numbers.

Lol and not to mention you can't really snipe holding still or you'll get counted as afk.

not true. standing still and shooting Enemies is fine.

i definitely don't recommend doing it, it's not good for your Health bar, but you can do it.

-snip-

balance and fun are not mutually exclusive.

i've seen (and therefore learned) many a time that a game where everything seems just slightly too good, has very good results.

everything is all about equally 'slightly too good', so it's still balanced.

-snip-

how quickly people forget everything.

all Sniper Rifles across the board did receive Damage increases. a few also had Crit Chance increased a bit. at the same time Vectis did also get an increase in Status. (why it has a higher Status Chance than Lanka i don't understand, but i've always felt Lanka should be atleast 40% status anyways)

as well as Vulkar had it's Reload time shortened.

shortly after, Snipetron Series also got touched up, after some 'complaints' (the people asking about Snipetron Series were actually pretty mature about it, the people that were opposing it however, not so much). as it was left out in the cold due to the unobtainable status.

Edited April 3, 2015 by taiiat

[CapedBaldy]

Gotta fix Nullifiers first.

[Eirshy]

@Taiiat

Status would be cool but the best CC is death, and no status proc really helps a sniper as all of the remotely good ones for them (gas, electric) will get type matchup screwed and you'd do better with a better element.

 

In addition, even if you're building for them, you'd need to be able to hit 100% status chance otherwise you have the EXACT SAME problem you have now: sniper rifles follow a paradigm based on reliability if your aim is true, and aren't.

 

 

Stealth would require a much more dynamic stealth system 'cause once someone goes loud, the entire party has gone loud (I believe). Also, long range is too tile-specific. Most tiles don't support it effectively, and if you were to give an ideal range min for the bonus (around 20-30m I believe)  it would still be adding additional punishment for sniper weapons in cqc. This is something they just don't need- perfect accuracy and ~1 sec fire time is plenty of punishment for short range.

.

 

Whatever you do has to either make their damage be on-par with the bows (minimum 1k raw without elemental or serration, 2k if not via guaranteed crits), or give them so much more utility than the bows that it doesn't matter (say something like: skips nullifier shields, ignores armor, scope gets the scanner's view-behind-cover feature, AND base damage goes up to the 500-800 range (with crit nerfed, likely to, say, 15/1.5)).

 

No matter what you do, they absolutely MUST BE RELIABLE. Because right now, their max damage is fine, the fact that they have a 16.4% chance to not even deal 10% of what they could deal makes them completely worthless.

 

... also the Lanka needs to be better than a non-primed-chamber Vectis. I don't think there's anything balance-related that &!$$es me off more.

Edited April 5, 2015 by TheBlueJelly

[taiiat]

-snip-

ofcourse we want them to be reliable.

so.

35% Crit Chance - with a Crit Chance bonus on Weakpoints. add 25 Crit Chance for example(note the flat bonus). 112.5% Crit Chance on Weakpoints, 87.5% anywhere else unless you're using Critical Delay, then 100% everywhere, and 129.3% on Weakpoints.

Status being guaranteed is a lot more powerful than it sounds. something in the 30% ish range for most is good. Lanka 40-45% ofcourse.

(100% Viral Status without any compromises to get it is asking for trouble! - sacrificing some Damage to have very high Status is a fair compromise, using Status Elementals instead of Elementals in order to have a very high Status rate.)

a Status bonus on Weakpoints wouldn't be terrible though. +50% Status chance on Weakpoint perhaps.

bonuses for Range is an extra. a nod toward the Weapon Archetype for the Player being in an 'ideal' position for the Weapons.

don't think of every single feature as separate, think of them together. every single feature does not need to be mindblowing, and infact shouldn't be in order to keep balance while making Weapons more unique.

i notice i didn't hit all of the points in that one segment. minimum 0.5m Punch-Through for all of them.

a couple tempting unique Mods that could be had - all Overkill Damage done in a N Meter Radius around the Kill point; 50% Chance for shots to create a Blast Status Explosion around the hit Enemy.

[Eyeless]

Snipers need to automatically crit on headshots. That is all. *drops mic* 

[Racercowboy]

I'd love to see snipers get more consistent in some way, but I believe the main problem is not the snipers themselves. Afterall, why use a sniper when you can use an automatic rifle who's time to kill is pretty much instant at sniper ranges? 

[Vaskadar]

Raw damage > crit damage. Crit requires that you pad it with critical chance mods as well as critical damage multiplier mods.

[taiiat]

Raw damage > crit damage.

there is only one problem with that.

due to Crits on Weakpoints, Crits are the most powerful Damage Related stat for Weapons in the entire game.

yes, you end up using Crit Mods.

but if you had two Elementals there instead, you simply can't touch Crits on Weakpoints.

absolutely nothing can.

Crits are extremely powerful.

this is why even Opticor's extremely high Physical Damage still can't trump other Spike Damage Weapons unless it Crits.

[00zau]

Sorry, guys, they already buffed snipers. For values of "buff." They gave the guns all a bunch of minor increases, without actually fixing the slot-machine problem or the fact that snipers are just generally subpar. "Thanks DE, just what a sniper needed; more status chance, so when I don't crit and do 5 whole damage, I can get a proc!  Instead of, you know, killing the target in one shot like snipers are supposed to do!"