All Shotguns

[etyn]

WE need a buff on shotgun's max ammo. shotgun is only about 100.Shotgun having the same dmg like rifle yet rifles win the shotguns. pls shotgun have too little ammo.

[Sixty5]

Max ammo really doesn't mean much.

 

With the exception of the Boars and possibly the Strun Wraith, shotguns have more than enough ammo efficiency to not need to worry too much about running scavenger, or ammo mutation.

 

I'd much rather see a flat damage increase or, better yet, the removal of falloff.

[tyny89]

Shotguns have long awaited a buff. I would love to use shotguns more than i do, because its my favourite weapon type.

Sadly the shotguns are too weak compared to most other weapons :/

[SeargantHaztagazpacho]

I think the ammo buff would help the Boar (Prime) a lot. 

 

All shotguns need some attention. A damage increase and slightly reduced spread could work wonders.

[GTG3000]

Max ammo really doesn't mean much.

 

With the exception of the Boars and possibly the Strun Wraith, shotguns have more than enough ammo efficiency to not need to worry too much about running scavenger, or ammo mutation.

 

I'd much rather see a flat damage increase or, better yet, the removal of falloff.

 

This here. Falloff just needs to go.

[SmilingMad]

WE need a buff on shotgun's max ammo. shotgun is only about 100.Shotgun having the same dmg like rifle yet rifles win the shotguns. pls shotgun have too little ammo.

I'm baffled about the logic used here. Shotguns have the same damage as rifles, rifles win anyway, it must be the max ammo capacity? What?

The max ammo really isn't relevant for shotguns, unless you're using the Kohm. 

 

 

I think the ammo buff would help the Boar (Prime) a lot. 

 

All shotguns need some attention. A damage increase and slightly reduced spread could work wonders.

Trigger discipline helps a lot.

Also, a damage increase wouldn't do a whole lot if you'd ask me. I'd say remove the falloff, and maybe give them some special innate falloff punchthrough that only works within a certain amount of meters.

Edited April 11, 2015 by SmilingMad

[ObviousLee]

Bring back the corpse mop that was once the sobek =(

[Sputter]

I'd be ok with falloff if the close range damage was at least 2x that of rifles and maybe tweak ammo eff a bit. Right now rifles have more damage than shotguns at all ranges making shotguns subpar in everyway.

[Grom-84]

Max ammo really doesn't mean much.

 

With the exception of the Boars and possibly the Strun Wraith, shotguns have more than enough ammo efficiency to not need to worry too much about running scavenger, or ammo mutation.

 

I'd much rather see a flat damage increase or, better yet, the removal of falloff.

yeye i wish i had 1280 ammo for my kohm or something maybe even higher

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I'd say remove damage Fall-off from all Shotgun Primaries

In my Opinion:

As Snipers should get innate Punch-Through and 8x multiplier on headshots....

Shotguns should get a Pellet % crit boost if a number of pellets hit a single target. (Tainted Shell brings balance by slowing firing rate, in case someone thinks it would be OP)

For Drakgoon and Phage: they have slowed mechanics for the time needed to tighten spread

But if Shotguns got a 100% crit chance boost for 100% pellets hitting a single target that would make them feel properly strong when using the barrel as-an-in-your-face-feeding-tube

-less than 50% pellets on a target would be UI Crit chance with no boost**

Spread over distance would greatly lessenbcrit ramp-up and effectively lowers damage over distance already.

***I'm not in charge of weapon balance, so just my opinion**

[Pro3Display]

I'd say remove the falloff, and maybe give them some special innate falloff that only works within a certain amount of meters.

with all respect- wut?

Edited April 11, 2015 by Pro3Display

[SmilingMad]

with all respect- wut?

Er, I meant punchthrough. Sorry.

[Pro3Display]

Er, I meant punchthrough. Sorry.

yeah, that definitely makes more sense.

they honestly could go without it if corpses wasn't staying vertical for bloody half of a minute and block shots

[HAYABU5A]

feeling on the day shotguns and snipers are finally adjusted 

[Lost_Cartographer]

I'm baffled about the logic used here. Shotguns have the same damage as rifles, rifles win anyway, it must be the max ammo capacity? What?

The max ammo really isn't relevant for shotguns, unless you're using the Kohm. 

 

 

Most rifles have superior accuracy, higher kills-per-mag ratio, typically faster reload speeds, and are generally just all around easier to use.   Shotguns are forced into short range with their spread and compounded with damage fall-off, so any shotgun with a tight spread (like the Hek) or mod that tightens spread is useless.  They're typically only good for 4-8 kills before needing to spend 2-4 seconds reloading.  To get any real crowd killing use out of them, punch-through MUST be used... rifles don't need punch through to gain crowd clearing capability, yet they have a mod that provides punch-through AND greater DPS (shred.)

 

Basically, shotguns are in a really $#!%%& place right now simply because they're only good as cannons... at a range where channeled melee would be just as effective.  Giving shotguns and sniper rifles innate punch through would be a huge buff to start.  More damage would justify their kills-per-mag ratio, as whatever One shoots with a shotgun or sniper rifle better damn well die.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Littleman88

[MirageKnight]

In addition to removing fall-off, I'd give innate knockback (short range) and stagger (midrange) to Shotguns - perhaps having a mechanic where the number of pellets that hits determines the amount of stagger and knockback done.

 

One of the distinguishing characteristics of most shotguns is that they hit with all the subtlety of a mule kick at close range and ironically the only weapon that conveys this well...is the charge attack of a particular melee weapon (Redeemer).

[Necr0Ra1se]

This here. Falloff just needs to go.

If falloff will go Hek will be best sniper and Kohm become God race.

[MirageKnight]

If falloff will go Hek will be best sniper and Kohm become God race.

 

I'm sorry...but this argument is flat out weak. This is a classic example of a slippery slope fallacy and is based on faulty premises and pure conjecture.

 

Shotguns have this thing called pellet spread to disperse the pellets over a wider area the farther out the pellets go, meaning fewer pellets hit a given target and thus do less damage to a single target. There's your balance right there.

 

With scatter and spread, pin point accuracy with a shotgun goes right out the door at long range and only with incredible luck could a couple of pellets strike a target's head with enough damage to count as a headshot.

[GTG3000]

Besides, Hek and Kohm are the high-tier shotguns we get, and they already are god-race, among with boltor p and others. If we remove the falloff, they won't really become much stronger, what with both of them having range limits set by their spread (Hek features Vicious Spread in most cases, and Kohm has high spread to begin with, especially on full spool).

 

Moreover, argument "this gun is better than snipers" isn't exactly valid in current game, because almost EVERYTHING is better than snipers.

[Necr0Ra1se]

I'm sorry...but this argument is flat out weak. This is a classic example of a slippery slope fallacy and is based on faulty premises and pure conjecture.

 

Shotguns have this thing called pellet spread to disperse the pellets over a wider area the farther out the pellets go, meaning fewer pellets hit a given target and thus do less damage to a single target. There's your balance right there.

 

With scatter and spread, pin point accuracy with a shotgun goes right out the door at long range and only with incredible luck could a couple of pellets strike a target's head with enough damage to count as a headshot.

And i see you never used none Hek or Kohm or use it so little that you don't know how they work.

Hek doesn't have high spread, it's more accurate then most of the rifles, only falloff add to it syndicate mod and get a monster. On cerberus you can hit enemies on other side of the map with it and you want to take falloff?

Kohm on other hand is this kind of weapon that doesn't neeed to aim just point into the direction of enemy and shoot + 1m innate PT . Before 16.0 when it was projectile weapon only one stop thing stop it from being master race: pellets fly in arc way but now Kohm even with rebalance it's is hitscan and more powerfull then soma prime and bolter prime (30 dmg x 12 pelletes= 360 dmg without any mod) and only what stop it from being master race is falloff. It doesn't matter on what distance enemies are you just point at them and shoot and you will defenitly hit them....

And you want to take falloff from them?

[MirageKnight]

And i see you never used none Hek or Kohm or use it so little that you don't know how they work.

 

 

While I don't have a Kohm, I do have a Hek in my inventory with two Forma invested in it and I use it a fair bit, meaning I know very well how it works. How about you try and use some facts instead of being an opinionated and presumptuous know-it-all with a flair for exaggeration?

 

And yes I still want to remove Falloff. On the other side of the map on Cerebus, you're lucky if more than half your pellets hit and the damage done by each pellet is greatly reduced. You conveniently left those bits of vital info out of your equation. The Hek will never be a sniper because that implies being able to reliably and consistently headshot at extreme range - which it can't do.

[Necr0Ra1se]

While I don't have a Kohm, I do have a Hek in my inventory with two Forma invested in it and I use it a fair bit, meaning I know very well how it works. How about you try and use some facts instead of being an opinionated and presumptuous know-it-all with a flair for exaggeration?

 

And yes I still want to remove Falloff. On the other side of the map on Cerebus, you're lucky if more than half your pellets hit and the damage done by each pellet is greatly reduced. You conveniently left those bits of vital info out of your equation. The Hek will never be a sniper because that implies being able to reliably and consistently headshot at extreme range - which it can't do.

Do you read all what you i write or only first line?I write a "wall of text" about Kohm( 5 formas) what it is and what it is capable off by testing in simulrium and on cerberus itself and you who doesn't have Kohm say that i don't use facts and i am opinioned and presumptuos?  You want facts ok lets do some math with Builder for Hek if there was no  falloff:

 

33 lvl crewman have:

461.25 shield

922,5 health

1383.75 to kill

By this formula on wiki:http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Enemy_Level_Scaling

 

my hek build is:

Hell's chamber max

Primed point blank max

Scatered justice max

Ammo stock 2 rank

Chilling grasp max

Contaginus spread max

Toxic barage max

pelletes: 29

Dmg per hit : 7795.40

Toxic\ mag: 2923.28(not counting: +50% to flesh\shield ignore; +75 to shields)

Ok lets start math if you say half will hit target, by luck of course, we will get:

 

pelletes: 14

dmg: 3897.7

toxic\mag: 1461.64( not counting +50%\+75%)

Lets say i miss even more and only 7 hit the target

pelletes:7 

dmg:1948.85

toxic: 730.82(not counting +50\+75%)

And now what builder says about it in details:

flesh: 9881.25

shield:9944.22

protoshield:10129.28

robots: 7283.84

Still a KILL!

You know this is pretty good sniper rifle:) So I want now to hear your facts and arguments for taking off falloff)

[Pro3Display]

level 33 crewman is 1shot-1kill with soma(2.5k damage shot even on my Sheet-build) whats your point?

unlike soma hek without punch through is an overkill anyways, if your hek is so mighty then go rhino, come close and shoot - no one gonna stop you and you still lose like 10k of damage into a dead body cause corpses stop bloody bullets

same with vectis crits for 40k damage - no sane level mob need that overkill and your ability to spread your damage into the crowd is still awful be it sniper rifle or shotgun of "tight spread sniping"

on the other hand a bit buffed hek would get rid of that bloody maniac that got annoying invincibility frames

 

also not everyone got hek mod from steel meridian - i for example will only be able to buy it cause i'm farming perin and arbiters

 

p.s. level 30-35 mobs are not that difficult anyways, even my phage can deal with them quite fast be it corpus, grineer or infested means no difference

 

tl:dr

 

sniper shot?

 

Still a KILL!

 

shotgun shot?

 

Still a KILL!

 

soma/boltor shot?

 

Still a KILL!

 

and while you wait your rof on sniper or shotgun your soma/boltor get 20-50 kills more. why? because they can

why 10 million damage per shot sniper rifle would still be bad? because there are not 1 mob there are 50-200 of them

why 10 million damage per shot hek would still be bad? because you hit 1-3 mobs with it when there are 50-200 of them

Edited April 12, 2015 by Pro3Display

[Necr0Ra1se]

If falloff will go Hek will be best sniper and Kohm become God race.

This^

 

level 33 crewman is 1shot-1kill with soma(2.5k damage shot even on my Sheet-build) whats your point?

unlike soma hek without punch through is an overkill anyways, if your hek is so mighty then go rhino, come close and shoot - no one gonna stop you and you still lose like 10k of damage into a dead body cause corpses stop bloody bullets

same with vectis crits for 40k damage - no sane level mob need that overkill and your ability to spread your damage into the crowd is still awful be it sniper rifle or shotgun of "tight spread sniping"

on the other hand a bit buffed hek would get rid of that bloody maniac that got annoying invincibility frames

 

also not everyone got hek mod from steel meridian - i for example will only be able to buy it cause i'm farming perin and arbiters

 

p.s. level 30-35 mobs are not that difficult anyways, even my phage can deal with them quite fast be it corpus, grineer or infested means no difference

 

tl:dr

 

sniper shot?

 

 

 

shotgun shot?

 

 

 

soma/boltor shot?

 

 

 

and while you wait your rof on sniper or shotgun your soma/boltor get 20-50 kills more. why? because they can

why 10 million damage per shot sniper rifle would still be bad? because there are not 1 mob there are 50-200 of them

why 10 million damage per shot hek would still be bad? because you hit 1-3 mobs with it when there are 50-200 of them

My point was that you can't just take away Falloff from some shotguns Hek and kohm. Take away falloff from hek and you can snipe with. Take away falloff from Kohm and it will become Godrace and you can throw away other weapons. 

[Grom-84]

I think the ammo buff would help the Boar (Prime) a lot. 

 

All shotguns need some attention. A damage increase and slightly reduced spread could work wonders.

Not only max ammo, but clip ammo as well! Because it so annoying beeing capable to shoot out whole magazine in 1.5-2 secods and than wait for 2.5 seconds while it reloads, this is unacceptable. My suggestions would be 40 ammo in a clip / 360 max ammo not more or not less, the same applies to Dex furis with it's ridiculous 210 max ammo while it consumes 100, i wonder which idiot will go into the fight having 2 clips and 10 spare bullets in his pockets... but that's is another story of course.  

Edited April 13, 2015 by Grom-84