*clarity Update* C'mon De Are You Really Going To Ruin Excalibur Like This?

[Noble_Cactus]

The niftiest thing I've seen used with Super Jump was in one Defense game where an xcal who joined super jumped and rained Ogris rockets down on approaching enemies. If nothing else, it looked really cool.

 

Yeah, DE shouldn't be pandering to this new generation of players who want abilities that play the game for you rather than being tools that help you change the way you play the game.

 

I hate to parrot what people usually say on these forums, but we have no idea how the new sword wave ability will work, or how RJ will work after xcal's second pass. If anything, the sword wave sounds less like a mindless scale and more like one that requires proper positioning and possibly even timing (if it plays a role in xcal's melee combo counter) to get the most use out of it.

 

Open-ended abilities are fine, but since we're getting more mobility options that include super jumps, I see no reason to brood over SJ's removal.

[Hypernaut1]

it sounds like his 4th will just be a quick way to clear a room with OP long range energy waves coming from his sword. 

So basically Excal will be slashing everywhere between his 1 and 4. That makes him thematically a sword frame.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Stormandreas]

This whole "ex is a swordsman" is a new thing.

Ex is a easy to pick up frame, It has a bit of everything.

DE ended up  buffing him into trouble and now they are just going to get rid of the powers that cause trouble.

Actually, its been Excaliburs design since he was made. For Warframe at least, he was always supposed to be a swordsman.

[tris1]

well Im happy hes getting a rework he needs it and his current skills are just 100 percent unreliable

[Ronyn]

Actually, its been Excaliburs design since he was made. For Warframe at least, he was always supposed to be a swordsman.

Melee was always an integral part of his kit but never to the point where it was he was relegated to it.

It was more that he could use his slash dash melee move even in gun mode and summon swords to skewer people to fulfill the whole sword theme.

 

Yes his name is Excalibur and that theme should come out through his actions.

But just as Valkyr doesn't actually use viking weapons or take players to the warframe universes afterlife...

Excalibur doesn't have to be sooooo melee-centric that he looses his initially intended flexibility. 

 

So sure-Super jump is being rendered redundant by charged jumps. This makes sense.

But this whole melee mode ult is too far. There are ways to increase his melee viability without having to go all the way like that.

 

Of course, I am hoping that if DE does go through with the melee mode that the sword waves do solid damage and have good range on them so he wont really be locked into melee range. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[Vargras]

LOL @ new ultimate.

 

Excalibur is going to D. I . E. Goodluck meleeing with a Hysteria without the invincibility and heal. Hope you'll have fun with the energy slashes.

I'm 99% sure all the slashes will be ranged.

 

Also, you make it sound as if you need invincibility and heals to do any melee damage. If you think you need that, you're probably bad.

 

Yes his name is Excalibur and that theme should come out through his actions.

But just as Valkyr doesn't actually use viking weapons or take players to the warframe universes afterlife...

Excalibur doesn't have to be sooooo melee-centric that he looses his initially intended flexibility.

Who said anything about him having "intended flexibility"? The players have viewed him as that, but if DE says he's a swordsman frame, he's a swordsman frame, and his new abilities will reflect that.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Vargras

[Ronyn]

Also, you make it sound as if you need invincibility and heals to do any melee damage. If you think you need that, you're probably bad.

In all fairness you need something in melee range to be effective in high levels.

Right now, as a basic frame, you can't do that great in melee range without something more than the basics.

For example Volt has shocking speed which is not invincibility or heals but its speed and automatic CC.

Or any frame with high armor you can do the rage/lifestrike loop. There are of course frames with stealth....

But right now Excalibur has none of that to actually be viable in melee. 

[.Czern]

The changes they announced are

-removal of super jump (which won't matter because of the addition of charged jumps)

-slash dash now actually hitting enemies in a cone rather than slashing past them and pretty much not hitting any of them.  which you mentioned that might lower his mobility which is good point though it is possible he might be just as mobile just also damaging more enemies along the way

-radial javelin is being knocked down to a 3rd ability rather than ulti and is possibly going to get something to make it stand out in comparison to R. Blind as a method of CC which is the overlap mentioned.  They are both methods of crowd control but they want them to stand out from each other

-his Radial Blind is now getting a stun (which does not affect the ability in the idea of removing anything from the ability so you should have no complaints about that)

-His new ultimate idea was not confirmed either it was said to be "the best suggestion and current direction"

 

you don't know if any future changes will or will not make the way his abilities were before obsolete so as a few have already said please wait till this content comes out to complain about it.

Thank you.

 

SD. I think it's a good change. Hitting enemies with it was difficult.

RB. Meh. It's underperforming because of broken LoS, stun won't change anything.

SJ. Oh well, it's dead since aerial attacks came out.

RJ. That's rather silly. Why not a buffer? If it's going a tier down, then it's damage will also decrease and it will become useless.

[Ronyn]

RB. Meh. It's underperforming because of broken LoS, stun won't change anything.

For whatever its worth-Radial Blind is also going to be usable while moving now too.

[Mak_Gohae]

Actually, its been Excaliburs design since he was made. For Warframe at least, he was always supposed to be a swordsman.

 

Want to show some proof that since he was first made he was supposed to be a swordsman?

Given that he was the first and at that time the melee was just one attack over and over it's extremely unlikely.

This seems to be something DE thew out in DC chat recently and now everyone is repeating.

[Ronyn]

Who said anything about him having "intended flexibility"? The players have viewed him as that, but if DE says he's a swordsman frame, he's a swordsman frame, and his new abilities will reflect that.

Who said it? DE did. It wsnt just some made up stuff from the players.

When was the last time you watched the offcial video?

https://warframe.com/game/warframes?id=Excalibur

DE expressed his intended flexibility right there. 

 

 

Yes, Excaliubur's a swordsman frame.  So he is supposed to be melee capable and even excel in melee.

But to push him that far into the melee frame space as people are taking it here is too extreme.

Currently he just isn't very good in melee range as he lacks any great way to survive there. This is the opposite extreme.

Ideally Excalibur would be a great melee frame when played that way but not be designed so he gets locked into it.

Take Loki, Volt, and Chroma for example. Each one of them is totally capable of awesome melee builds in their own ways without actually being locked into it like a full on hysertia mode.

 

This doesn't have to be an EITHER/OR situation. Excalibur can be an awesome swordsmam/melee frame AND still be flexible enough to fit multiple playstyles like it says in the video.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[CombatPastor]

Okay, not to be a jerk, but let's do some research here. Here is my current profile, as of 04/11/2015 at 12:59 PM EST:

 

 

I've used Excalibur through every iteration of his buffs and debuffs (aside from the first, where Slash Dash was his best ability). I've taken Excalibur in his Radial Blind 1.0 days in T4S for over an hour solo. I've taken Excalibur in his current state (nerfed Radial Blind, wonky and unreliable Radial Javelin) to T4S and survived for 40 minutes+ simply because I was determined to force a build for my favorite frame that worked.

 

With that said, let's look here:

 

 

And here:

 

 

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but please compare your Excalibur usage to mine. Comparatively your Excalibur and Excalibur Prime are trophies that sit on a shelf and look pretty until you decide to have fun with your Super Jump abilities. You've got a combined XP gain on both of your Excalibur frames of just under 18 million... with Excalibur, I've totaled over 101 million XP gained and over 120 thousand kills. So, no offense, but in my opinion as an AVID Excalibur fan, this frame desperately needs a rework. The melee multiplier on Radial Blind barely works. The stun from Radial Blind and Radial Javelin are overlapping capabilities. The damage from Radial Javelin barely scales into mid-game and stops being effective before leaving the star chart. Super Jump is marginally useful due to the invisibilitiy - something only used because the blinding capabilities of Radial Blind were nerfed into the ground. Slash Dash's damage falls off before you reach the midway point of the star chart and comparable moves on other frames (Rhino Charge, Tidal Surge, and Tailwind) are all considerably better. The best way to survive long term into T4S using Excalibur is to give him Quick Thinking and Primed Flow, avoid using skills, and let his energy pool be an additional source of health. There is simply no way that was the intention for this frame.

 

I understand your sentiments about the fun you have with the frame, but I think you're a little misguided about the frame's viability. Please don't let your refusal to move from your comfort zone be a hinderance to the progress of the poster frame for this game.

 

**Edited to correct my XP gain fron 120 million to 101 million**

Edited April 11, 2015 by CombatPastor

[Circle_of_Psi]

Can't wait for this topic to be locked.

 

And it was made by an founder, this just adds spice

[Zoike]

i Like their suggested excal changes save for making javelin his 3 (i would scrap it all together)

 

slightly worried that they may make his 4 TOO much like valkyr's 

 

People need to think about the health of the game as a whole and stop whining just because their favorite toy was CHANGED (not even nerfed)

[Zoike]

Thanks.

I've been doing that with pretty much every warframe.

LOL my thoughts too

[LordChronos]

Well I never liked super jump and it forced players to use a mod slot if they wanted it to do anything useful. I'm glad they're making changes. I just hope they make the prime version more godly than the regular one. :)

[Buzkyl]

 Excalibur is the king of melee and in the hands of a skilled player is extremely powerful with his unique blend of damage, mobility, cc, and mitigation. Please don't water him down just to please the people who can't be bothered with anything that they don't think is viable! 

 

 

Don't lie to yourself.

 

There is zero loss in excalibur in this rework

 

-Slash dash will flow straight into melee

-His blind will be able to be done while moving, perhaps even synergizing with slash dash

-Javelin will be redone

-He gets an ultimate that sound cooler than our current melee ultimate.

 

He loses super yet in Parkour 2.0 every frame will have their own super jump and it's even likely there will be mods for it.

 

 

Are people this scared of change? I remember when Rhino's rework was first posted and everyone lost thier minds saying he will be ruined because radial blast was removed, do say that today.

 

Excalibur is the poster boy for the game yet is arguably the worst frame in the game.

Edited April 11, 2015 by cozzi21

[toolazyforagoodname]

 

RJ. That's rather silly. Why not a buffer? If it's going a tier down, then it's damage will also decrease and it will become useless.

 

I believe it's going to retain all it's other stats.  just costing 75 rather than 100 energy making it more useful.  Though we don't know till it comes out

[Flyghter]

 

Are people this scared of change? 

I think most of Excalibur players who complain abaut the changes or just want to troll  or are afraid of changes how you say .

Changes are alwais for the best even if they were bad or good ,because it shows what we have done good or bad before and after the changes.

[CryvernX]

im really excited for excalibur rework, i cried for months waiting for this :')

[Thaumatos]

Hardly. The augment doesn't "supercharge" his melee either -- I'm pretty sure it's less of a buff than a rank 1 Pressure Point. That's really bad.

 

Additionally, the devs noted that Super Jump was created before parkour was ever a thing. Back then, it would've been immensely powerful, seeing as you could do things no one else could. Now it's a very dated mechanic. As much as I love Super Jump myself, it needs to go in favor of something else.

Basically this.

And this:

 

Only in the Warframe forums will you find people so frightened of change that they will claim the ability to jump in a video game is an alternative open-ended playstyle.

 

It really is remarkable, the mental gymnastics people will perform, to convince themselves Excal is anything above mediocre. And then play the victim when they realize they're in the incredibly small minority. I suppose I should be surprised but theres drones like this in every MMO ever made so oh well.

 

I look forward to seeing the predictable nostalgia-goggled "old excalibur was better" threads that will litter this place when this broken tricycle of a frame finally gets a motor slung onto it.

 

Excalibur proves that the majority of people in this world are bad at math and they refuse to use the history of any subject matter as a reference point.

 

Powers based on old mechanics deserve an upgrade.  Especially when new mechanics make said powers redundant and/or pointless.

 

I just can't wait to see all the threads about coptering when they finally normalize that heinous movement multiplication garbage and add limitations.  I'll have to remember to buy some popcorn and watch the forums blow up.

[Thaumatos]

LOL @ new ultimate.

 

Excalibur is going to D. I . E. Goodluck meleeing with a Hysteria without the invincibility and heal. Hope you'll have fun with the energy slashes.

Exactly what makes you think his stats are going to remain the same?

 

More to the point, why the hell should you need invulnerability to melee in this game?  There's a very big problem lurking just underneath your statement.

[r0ckwolf]

i dunno, but your rant seems lacking any real argument...

 

You said there is nothing like Super Jump in the game?! Ever tried air directional melee???

 

Radial JAvelin and Radial Blind overlap quiet a bit, in high level conent when RJ´s damage falls off, it´s only redeeming factor is that 1 second stun, which Radial Blind already does only better! 

 

Excalibur is not, by any means the King of melee right now! His survivability is not average but one of the lowest of all frames, his movement speed is also low and all of his abilities fall off way to quickly and don´t give you an edge in melee combat!

 

How about you just sit back and wait for the changes, who knows you might like them. i can guarantee that it´s´gonna be a better Frame!

[Ignis_Vespa]

So, you want a Zephyr? :v

[Noble_Cactus]

I woke up this morning giggling about how absurd it was to get upset over removing Super Jump.

 

I'm not sure why, but I found it amusing in my half-awake stupor.

 

-

 

Anyway, the one area where I can understand peoples' concern is where that supposed flexibility might be threatened by the new Shining Finger sword ult. But the way I am envisioning it right now, this new ability will send out large shockwaves/energy waves that project a reasonable distance in front of xcal (perhaps modified by range?). Which means that this ability might not lock him into pure melee and will let him attack groups both at range and up close. Which sounds pretty flexible to me, no?

 

Then again, I could be completely wrong.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Noble_Cactus