How About We Nerf Corrosive Projection?

[shut]

Yes, damage 2.0, Corrosive. Designed to fight armored enemies, which we can just completely bypass by putting a mod on.

I use 4xCP, because I would be silly not to, but do I think it's balanced? No, it's bad game design and it doesn't belong.

That's a good point; no damage type should ever be useless. Although one could argue that sacrificing all of a squad's Auras as part of a coordinated effort should be a perfectly viable option; while Corrosive damage should definitely be worth using, it shouldn't be the only thing worth using.

But again, though, the root of the problem lies in the fact that our armor scaling system is broken, and CP is our only way around that issue. Changing CP before actually fixing the problem will just make things worse for everyone.

The armor system needs changing. When that's done, THEN we can talk about whether CP needs tweaks as well.

Edited April 20, 2015 by SortaRandom

[Artekkor]

Seriously, no. CP is ours only way to fight high-level grineer enemies (since they're the only armor-based faction). I'm so tired of having to bring corrosion with me all the @(*()$ time... I could only wish for CP having 100% armor reduction so i could just solo those T4 survivals like nobody's business (not like i can't, but still). Though i can accept reducing it to 25% so 25x4=100, not 30x4=120 where 20% of aura effect goes nowhere.

BUT REMEMBER! As DE once said - there is a balance-bucket filled with game's balance. If we taking something out, we must put something in. Maybe buff some other aura/auras? Or maybe some under-powered weapons / frames.

[Eda.Mone]

Let us nerf Trinity again while we're at it.

This mod is the only thing that even makes raids Viable for Vay hek without getting roller coaster stomped, not to mention t4s/d Easier and not just some fest where you get stun locked by an automatic rocket launcher.. (Really DE, if we have to charge the Orgis then why don't they? D:) 

[Eda.Mone]

Also, does anyone else think that Corrosive Production should be a D polarity?

I'd Say the V. Due to the fact that it is an offensive mod.

[ThePrimarchSystem]

Edited April 20, 2015 by ThePrimarchSystem

[Tsukinoki]

@OP
Sure, you can say that CP is quite powerful, but the answer to that fact shouldn't be to nerf it.
The fact is is that CP is the only way to get around infinite armor scaling that quickly reduces all damage types (even corrosive) to nothing.
That is what makes CP required in very long runs. (which are runs in excess of 1 hour+, up to 1 hour CP isn't required by any means).

If you want to nerf CP in any way you have to first address the infinitely scaling enemy armor that doesn't take long to reduce our damage by 99%.

First they need to make it so that CP isn't required for super long runs in order to actually damage the enemies and then we can talk about reducing its effectiveness.

If you only nerf CP without doing anything about the infinitely scaling enemy armor, and therefore damage reduction, it wont do anything but annoy people because its an unneeded nerf that only hurts players for no reason.

So how about you first solve the infinitely scaling enemy armor.  After you solve that problem we can worry about how powerful CP is.

[Kostadin]

i agree with nerfing the CP but first we want a fix for the armor scalling

[MikeJonesDaOreo]

Lets take away element mods while we're at it. Forget elements all together.

 

Seriously, CP might be the popular go to mod but as people are saying Grineer and Void armor scaling is more broken than CP.

 

Personally I don't care for aura mods. The only ones I use are Energy Siphion, CP, Loot Detector for Syndicate medallians and that's it. Instead of nerfing Auras how about rework all the other ones first?

 

One last thing even if we were to nerf armor scaling ontop of nerfing CP what's going to happen in raids? Those high level enemies will still have a good amount of armor and then you're left with Rollers humping your legs, scorpions forcing you to be kinky and Bombards shoving rockets down your throat. Aaannnd insult to injury how about we throw a manic or 2 ontop of you to just beat you silly until you're out of revives?

[Fifield]

How about we just fix armor scaling instead.

 

What makes you think armor scaling is broken?

T4 is easy.  T3 is practically impossible to be downed in.  Raid (level 80 enemies) would be nicely challenging if massive CC wasn't compulsory.

Ohhhhh, you're talking about endless missions?  Well why didn't you say...

But contrary to the name, people don't want endless missions.  They want them lasting 20-40 mins.  Yet T4D already goes on for over an hour...

 

What stops teams going longer?  Bombards en-masse or extremely tanky enemies.  Now for maximum excitement, we all want to get out of missions by the skin of our teeth* with full rewards.  What we want are bosses that kick our arses but we manage to win anyway.*

But this is a pipe dream.

Something has to stop the mission and preferably by the 40 mins mark.  Until DE come up with decent AI in 2017, that means armor scaling and bombards.

* Had a Raid like this today.  3 leavers.  Players dying everywhere and down to their last revives, mission reset twice.  Was bloody awesome.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Fifield

[THND3RZ]

+1 to OP.

[Buzkyl]

What makes you think armor scaling is broken?

T4 is easy.  T3 is practically impossible to be downed in.  Raid (level 80 enemies) would be nicely challenging if massive CC wasn't compulsory.

Ohhhhh, you're talking about endless missions?  Well why didn't you say...

But contrary to the name, people don't want endless missions.  They want them lasting 20-40 mins.  Yet T4D already goes on for over an hour...

 

What stops teams going longer?  Bombards en-masse or extremely tanky enemies.  Now for maximum excitement, we all want to get out of missions by the skin of our teeth* with full rewards.  What we want are bosses that kick our arses but we manage to win anyway.*

But this is a pipe dream.

Something has to stop the mission and preferably by the 40 mins mark.  Until DE come up with decent AI in 2017, that means armor scaling and bombards.

* Had a Raid like this today.  3 leavers.  Players dying everywhere and down to their last revives, mission reset twice.  Was bloody awesome.

 

Armour scaling is horribly broken, Armour destroys most elemental types effectiveness outside of CC. Ember especially,  her massive damage is destroyed vs anything with Armour and she cannot do anything about it.  Armour as a concept is fine, how it increases with enemy level is extremely broken.

 

I'm pretty certain you don't speak for the majority of people. Most groups stop at 20/ 40 because that is the C rotation for rare loot, past 40 the enemy levels begin to rise much more quickly. And also if DE wanted survival to last 40 minutes, they would have had to start from 40 minutes and countdown. Or they would simply force extraction past a certain time Endless missions end when the player decides it's enough, that doesn't mean that there actual end.

 

 

Also if you're in a raid and players keep dropping like flies constantly, you're playing with inexperienced players

[BattledOne]

It's broken because it helps circumvent a broken mechanic - enemy armor scaling. I don't see why must enemy armor rating grow with the increase in enemy level, it gives an unfair edge to greneer units (like they needed more) and scales to absurd amounts. Why can't units have flat armor rating that never changes and balance around that?

If a bombard always had 50% damage reduction from armor, we'd still want to get CP, but it wouldn't make other choices less viable.

Edited April 20, 2015 by BattledOne

[taiiat]

like basically everyone is going to say, people are using Corrosive Projection because it's required.

there's not choice. if you don't have Corrosive Projections, Enemies take too long to Kill, and completing your Mission Objectives requires even more cheesing than usual.

Corrosive Projection is the angel in this situation - removing that Armor allows Players to not need to use disgusting 'strategies' that basically sum up to the kind of stuff you see in AFKfarming.

it's not a good solution, but it IS a better one than every Mission turning into AFKfarming because it's the only way to Kill Enemies efficiently.

[Fifield]

Armour scaling is horribly broken, Armour destroys most elemental types effectiveness outside of CC. Ember especially,  her massive damage is destroyed vs anything with Armour and she cannot do anything about it.

 

That's either a feature of nukers which goes across all video games -- good at low levels, get carried later.

So again, what's broken about armor scaling?

[Fifield]

I'm pretty certain you don't speak for the majority of people. Most groups stop at 20/ 40 because that is the C rotation for rare loot, past 40 the enemy levels begin to rise much more quickly.

 

No, they don't.  Enemy scaling is linear, it just feels exponential.

 

I don't speak for carebears, to be sure.  I have actually asked in this forum and everyone said 20-40 minutes.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/418727-how-long-should-missions-last-how-difficult-should-they-be/#entry4642367

Getting to wave 60 can be dicey and needs a properly organised squad.  Since there's little reason to go to wave 45, that's a problem with the rotation.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Fifield

[Fifield]

And also if DE wanted survival to last 40 minutes, they would have had to start from 40 minutes and countdown. Or they would simply force extraction past a certain time Endless missions end when the player decides it's enough, that doesn't mean that there actual end.

 

I don't think DE are necessarily aware either how much shorter missions should be or how easy the game is.

PS. DE fix your quoting so I don't have to reply 3x.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

While I agree with the sentiments of the op, cp is a band aid players use to get around DE's idea of difficulty. I've often asked myself if auras should even stack to begin with and, as much as I'd hate to see that change, I don't think they should. As it stands now, Warframes "difficulty system" is a hot mess and I'd like to keep my band aids until the system is more than just infinitely scaling numbers. Completely removing enemy armor is a laughable game mechanic, one I've never seen before playing Warframe, but taking it away would be addressing the symptom while ignoring the disease.

[Atomic_Beam]

How about we nerf everything in the game and you?

[Kuestenjung]

I'd rather see more aura mods to give us more options. Right now it's just Energy Siphon, Corrosive Projection or Rejuvination that are the viable mods for high level, generally.

 

Exactly, this is the problem, not that corrosive projection is to strong.

 

The other auras we have need a rework, they are all not worth it.

[Flowen231]

Corrosive Projection is the only viable high level aura, because it's broken. We have many aura mods, but can't use them, because Corrosive Projection stack is just too good to not have.

False, the reason why it's the only viable aura late game is not because it's broken, but rather because the rest of the auras are S#&$ and do not have anywhere near as much utility. Rather than nerfing 1 thing which is the only thing that allows players to viably play late game content, everything else should get a buff to be equally as useful late game. Also, armor scaling should be fixed, it's broken and it's the main reason you see nothing but CP.

[Fifield]

 Also, armor scaling should be fixed, it's broken

 

Again, how is it broken?

[Buzkyl]

That's either a feature of nukers which goes across all video games -- good at low levels, get carried later.

So again, what's broken about armor scaling?

 

Except here any frame good at low level is not necessarily bad at high levels. Guns do more damage than abilities. A well modded Loki will excel in low level as aswell as high levels. A well modded Ember will excel on at low levels but will be horrible on high levels. However Ash can perform as a Nuker from low to high levels via bladestorm spam. Why? Because bladestorm ignores Armour and is affected by combo multiplier. So armour here is simply a system which gimps a select number of frames

 

No, they don't.  Enemy scaling is linear, it just feels exponential.

 

I don't speak for carebears, to be sure.  I have actually asked in this forum and everyone said 20-40 minutes.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/418727-how-long-should-missions-last-how-difficult-should-they-be/#entry4642367

Getting to wave 60 can be dicey and needs a properly organised squad.  Since there's little reason to go to wave 45, that's a problem with the rotation.

Armour scaling also has no cap limit,  which leads to a majority of it's issues

 

 

Interms of challenge going to 40 will normally be considered a good point as the enemies are decently adequately challenge without oneshotting you, depending on frame.

 

 

I don't think DE are necessarily aware either how much shorter missions should be or how easy the game is.

PS. DE fix your quoting so I don't have to reply 3x.

 

 

Also you can easily quote the main section 3 times and reply individually, there is no need to fix anything.

[(XBOX)RIOTx420]

CP should not be nurfed , I only put it on for boss battles and high lvl missions , if you think it's op then don't use it ,

Games should never be nurfed.

CP is fine the way it is

Just my opinion

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Right after they nerf the aim on the enemy. Seriously getting shot a hundred times from across the map while wall running is a little much, so nerfing whatever De throws our way to thin the herd on the auto aim on those guys seems horrible.

[Fifield]

Except here any frame good at low level is not necessarily bad at high levels. Guns do more damage than abilities. A well modded Loki will excel in low level as aswell as high levels. A well modded Ember will excel on at low levels but will be horrible on high levels. However Ash can perform as a Nuker from low to high levels via bladestorm spam. Why? Because bladestorm ignores Armour and is affected by combo multiplier. So armour here is simply a system which gimps a select number of frames

 

Armour scaling also has no cap limit,  which leads to a majority of it's issues

 

Also you can easily quote the main section 3 times and reply individually, there is no need to fix anything.

 

This is more about warframe design than about armor scaling.  Even if armor was removed, Ember will still suck at high levels.

 

Armour scaling also has no cap limit,  which leads to a majority of it's issues

 

What issues?

 

Also you can easily quote the main section 3 times and reply individually, there is no need to fix anything.

 

Guess so but it's far from intuitive.