Pilfering Swarm Is Bad For The Game

[RexRgisIocus]

Fix the cancer known as Greedy Pull first. Nothing worst for the game than being able to stay standing in the same spot pressing 1 over and over making enemies fly all over the damned tileset.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

If Pilfering Swarm was changed so enemies in the area of the tencles were marked for dropping more loot as opposed to needing to be kill by the tentacles...that would be more team-active friendly and not make it a buzz-kill where you just wait for tentacles to kill everything.

-Duration could be used for how long marked targets can drop extra loot

-Power strength still used for how much loot they will drop

-Range will affect range of potentially marked victims

Ultimately this would be turning Pilfering Swarm into a sort-of M-Prime where enemies will drop more loot rather than having to actually die from the tentacles and thus more rewarding ...like when M-Prime was changed to benefit normal killing means rather than Nova hogging all the fun affinity

[Darkmoone1]

Desecrate, Pilfaring Swarm, Greedy Pull, Carrier, and anything else that effect loot in general need to go. The game has turned less about the mission and more about what you can get in the mission(Which is one aspect of the scope of the gameplay.)

[RexRgisIocus]

Desecrate, Pilfaring Swarm, Greedy Pull, Carrier, and anything else that effect loot in general need to go. The game has turned less about the mission and more about what you can get in the mission(Which is one aspect of the scope of the gameplay.)

 

This is one of the reasons I'm loving DE's decision to blow up the Star Chart and reduce nodes to 20 as well as randomizing them.

 

Desecrate imo would be fine if it only affected ammo drops and health/energy orbs. Greedy Pull would be fine if it only affected ammo drops (to stop the cheesy GMag/Mesa combo).

 

Loot should be a part of the game that we cant touch. People say that the grind is uber bad in this game but its like they have never seen other free to play games. Hell even others that aren't f2p have more grind than Warframe does.

 

The levels of grind in this game are decent and the rng while it could use a bit of work isn't that bad either. Most of the people that complain have around 1.2k hours logged in the game and have run out of things to do which is why they complain.

 

1.2k hours in any game is more than enough and bound to make any player feel burned out.

 

[Brandr_]

Wanna know what else is bad for that game? Self-entitled players who think that just because they don't like a system the Devs are automatically obligated to change it just for YOU

[Me.KayOh]

Wanna know what else is bad for that game? Self-entitled players who think that just because they don't like a system the Devs are automatically obligated to change it just for YOU

Thank you.  You get a kudos. =D

 

Had this den of kubrow event not roll around, this thread would not exist. =\ 

 

Makes you wonder what the real problem is. 

 

What am I saying? we all know what the real problem is. 

 

OP is just masking childish angst in his first post.

 

For the record: ability augments work as intended.

Edited May 24, 2015 by kalikilic

[RexRgisIocus]

Wanna know what else is bad for that game? Self-entitled players who think that just because they don't like a system the Devs are automatically obligated to change it just for YOU

 

And how exactly is the "play the game just for farming and forget fun" system actually good for the game?

 

Its not that we feel or believe ourselves entitled. Its that this "system" is not good for the game's longevity which I would assume is something DE cares about.

 

[FelisImpurrator]

This is one of the reasons I'm loving DE's decision to blow up the Star Chart and reduce nodes to 20 as well as randomizing them.

 

Desecrate imo would be fine if it only affected ammo drops and health/energy orbs. Greedy Pull would be fine if it only affected ammo drops (to stop the cheesy GMag/Mesa combo).

 

Loot should be a part of the game that we cant touch. People say that the grind is uber bad in this game but its like they have never seen other free to play games. Hell even others that aren't f2p have more grind than Warframe does.

 

The levels of grind in this game are decent and the rng while it could use a bit of work isn't that bad either. Most of the people that complain have around 1.2k hours logged in the game and have run out of things to do which is why they complain.

 

1.2k hours in any game is more than enough and bound to make any player feel burned out.

Lol @ both the people who think this was another "complain about the grind" thread, as opposed to a nice interesting proposal for a tweak/semi-buff to Pilfering Swarm that makes it more fun to use (tl;dr, since half the thread seems to need it: Kill tentacled enemies in any way including shooting them, and they have a lower but still significant chance to drop extra loot) and the people who think fixing the grind problem is as simple as NERF ALL THE LOOT ABILITIES, MAXIMUM GRIND FOREVER.

 

Can we please read the OP for once? (And if you really want to talk about farming abilities, perhaps acknowledge that the issues WF has are more fundamental than "x ability OP, pls nerf"?)

[vaugahn]

NERF ALL THE LOOT ABILITIES

 

Getting rid of loot abilities isn't supposed to solve grind, it just stops those frames from being the ultimate one trick pony. Even after the Nekros buff he's still the 3frame, just because no matter how good his other abilities are they'll never be as useful as Desecrate. The same goes for Hydroid.

 

But yeah, that's not what this thread is about at all.

[Tesseract7777]

Lol @ both the people who think this was another "complain about the grind" thread, as opposed to a nice interesting proposal for a tweak/semi-buff to Pilfering Swarm that makes it more fun to use (tl;dr, since half the thread seems to need it: Kill tentacled enemies in any way including shooting them, and they have a lower but still significant chance to drop extra loot) and the people who think fixing the grind problem is as simple as NERF ALL THE LOOT ABILITIES, MAXIMUM GRIND FOREVER.

 

Can we please read the OP for once? (And if you really want to talk about farming abilities, perhaps acknowledge that the issues WF has are more fundamental than "x ability OP, pls nerf"?)

 

Thank you. I wish everyone would read this post. It pretty much sums up all of the misunderstanding in this thread, and explains what everyone is talking about and why some people are talking at cross purposes. 

[Archistopheles]

It makes awkward situations where people get angry with each other because they did/didn't kill things. This is a toxic environment and it's not really a player problem, it's an ability problem.

This is a pet peeve of mine. You're using this buzzword incorrectly. "Toxic" should not be used to describe something that you find "bad", it should be only used when it figuratively corrupts a player's attitude or behavior.

Being lazy and/or maximizing loot gain is not toxic behavior. It's being lazy and/or power-farming.

[RexRgisIocus]

Lol @ both the people who think this was another "complain about the grind" thread, as opposed to a nice interesting proposal for a tweak/semi-buff to Pilfering Swarm that makes it more fun to use (tl;dr, since half the thread seems to need it: Kill tentacled enemies in any way including shooting them, and they have a lower but still significant chance to drop extra loot) and the people who think fixing the grind problem is as simple as NERF ALL THE LOOT ABILITIES, MAXIMUM GRIND FOREVER.

 

Can we please read the OP for once? (And if you really want to talk about farming abilities, perhaps acknowledge that the issues WF has are more fundamental than "x ability OP, pls nerf"?)

 

The thing is that the grind isn't bad enough to warrant loot generating abilities so making an ability that generates loot even better at generating loot is not needed.

 

And I did read the op. All I got from it is make this augment that shouldn't even exist into an even worse thing. Almost every Hydroid in the game runs Pilfering. With this change all we would see are even more tentacles but with a bit more shooting.

 

[Tesseract7777]

This is a pet peeve of mine. You're using this buzzword incorrectly. "Toxic" should not be used to describe something that you find "bad", it should be only used when it figuratively corrupts a player's attitude or behavior.

Being lazy and/or maximizing loot gain is not toxic behavior. It's being lazy and/or power-farming.

 

I use toxic exactly as I mean it. To clarify: I am not saying farming is toxic. I am saying that an attitude where people get angry with each other because they did or did not let a tentacle kill something, corrupts player attitudes and can breed a toxic atmosphere. 

 

I am not saying farming is toxic. I am saying bad attitudes bred by the design of Pilfering Swarm are. The design could be fixed by basing it on kill assists, and it would not breed any bad attitudes anymore. Farming is okay. It will always happen in any game where there are specific things people want. 

[HibikiGanaha]

I had someone tell me not to shoot the stuff in his tentacles one time and I ignored him.  His tentacles were too weak and took too long to kill anything.

 

If you want to get tentacle kills and loot, you need max power strength.

[Archistopheles]

I use toxic exactly as I mean it. To clarify: I am not saying farming is toxic. I am saying that an attitude where people get angry with each other because they did or did not let a tentacle kill something, corrupts player attitudes and can breed a toxic atmosphere.

And I'm not bashing you for using it that way or anything. I do understand what you're talking about, but it's the same behavior players exhibit when any "rule" is broken. In a raid, if you don't do your job, you get yelled at. If you rush when people are trying to find syndicate tokens, you get yelled at, etc etc. Those aren't necessarily toxic aspects of the game, though.

In farming, the goal is to get as many drops as possible, if you do something to hinder that, you'll get yelled at the same way you'll get yelled at for being a hallway hero.

[Tesseract7777]

And I'm not bashing you for using it that way or anything. I do understand what you're talking about, but it's the same behavior players exhibit when any "rule" is broken. In a raid, if you don't do your job, you get yelled at. If you rush when people are trying to find syndicate tokens, you get yelled at, etc etc. Those aren't necessarily toxic aspects of the game, though.

In farming, the goal is to get as many drops as possible, if you do something to hinder that, you'll get yelled at the same way you'll get yelled at for being a hallway hero.

 

What about in random PUB games though, which are a large part of the game? 

 

I've seen Hydroid's yell at people for not letting their tentacles kill stuff, in a game modes where you can't say everyone was farming resources, perhaps only even the Hydroid was. This is just one example, but that's really the kind of thing I am talking about. 

 

I like the way Nekros's ability works in that it doesn't matter who kills it, Nekros can still desecrate their corpse. On the other hand, even though Hydroid is a pirate, he can't take anything from bodies he doesn't kill with his tentacle swarm. 

 

Perhaps the word does or doesn't apply, but wouldn't it be less drama overall, if it was simply assists, and the percentages were dropped down to a reasonable level (Nekros doesn't have 100% chance for example)? Overall we're talking the same ability, the same mechanics, but way better meshing/utility with the rest of the squad. 

 

I know there will always be bad attitude's in games, but why not change things to mitigate that a bit, especially if it can be done while maintaining the same spirit and use of the ability? 

[FelisImpurrator]

This is a pet peeve of mine. You're using this buzzword incorrectly. "Toxic" should not be used to describe something that you find "bad", it should be only used when it figuratively corrupts a player's attitude or behavior.

Being lazy and/or maximizing loot gain is not toxic behavior. It's being lazy and/or power-farming.

It should also be used to describe the aura around certain Ancient (Eximi), and Mutalist Ospreys. Those things are ridiculous.

 

The thing is that the grind isn't bad enough to warrant loot generating abilities so making an ability that generates loot even better at generating loot is not needed.

 

And I did read the op. All I got from it is make this augment that shouldn't even exist into an even worse thing. Almost every Hydroid in the game runs Pilfering. With this change all we would see are even more tentacles but with a bit more shooting.

 

"Not bad enough." Based on... what? The sheer prevalence of threads about it and the way certain drops work (Four RIders, Vermilion Storm, etc) seems to imply that your opinion is in the extreme minority.

 

Going to compare it to other games? Well, other games obviously aren't this game. Everything else being broken doesn't excuse being only somewhat less broken. That argument is basically to settle for less - "shut up, other games have it worse". And as a rationale to justify game balancing decisions, that argument is effectively useless.

[RealPandemonium]

I usually only play in random public groups because it turns the game into a roguelike... and this never happens. Your entire point falls apart right here, because you are engineering a team whose purpose is to create loot. That's your goal, and thus, you adapt to that.

 

Some people just wanna kill things and don't care. If you make it a point to not kill things, you can't cite a single augment as being at fault for rupturing game design.

o3o

Well-said.  If Pilfering Swarm is bad for the game, then IDK what we shoud say about Peacemaker, Miasma, MPrime, Stomp, Radial Disarm, etc...

[-INA-Ustad]

Unfortunately... Hydroid's still pretty unpopular

Yeah ,  i agree

[Chroia]

Desecrate and Pilfering Swarm both need to go.

[Me.KayOh]

What about in random PUB games though, which are a large part of the game? 

 

I've seen Hydroid's yell at people for not letting their tentacles kill stuff, in a game modes where you can't say everyone was farming resources, perhaps only even the Hydroid was. This is just one example, but that's really the kind of thing I am talking about. 

 

I like the way Nekros's ability works in that it doesn't matter who kills it, Nekros can still desecrate their corpse. On the other hand, even though Hydroid is a pirate, he can't take anything from bodies he doesn't kill with his tentacle swarm. 

 

Perhaps the word does or doesn't apply, but wouldn't it be less drama overall, if it was simply assists, and the percentages were dropped down to a reasonable level (Nekros doesn't have 100% chance for example)? Overall we're talking the same ability, the same mechanics, but way better meshing/utility with the rest of the squad. 

 

I know there will always be bad attitude's in games, but why not change things to mitigate that a bit, especially if it can be done while maintaining the same spirit and use of the ability? 

The ability works as intended. Having the extra loot being based off of what is killed in his tentacles is the right choice, especially considering that, while it'll seem OP in early endless missions, it drops off hard eventually and very few things die in the tentacles later on or in high level gameplay.

 

If the change you are talking about was made, then either one of two things would happen; Hydroid generates too much extra loot, or he generates close to no extra loot.

 

Because some people play in a manner that you cannot appreciate, it doesnt mean that things are broken nor does it mean that it has to change. This is what i feel, you are failing to understand, whereas you are only harping on and on about people not reading what you wrote. 

 

You are talking about these augments encouraging a "certain type of gameplay" which you do not like....what about the people who like it? Or are your concerns the only thing that matters? 

 

You talk about people getting angry in the mission. oh wow. i bet if we all opened a thread every time someone gets angry in a mission, we'll stomp that behaviour right out.

 

Having Hydroid and his augment is no obligation on your part, to use him or to even have a squadmate with him. If you do not like his augment, then dont play with him. 

 

If you're in a match with him, as a team, you play to each other's strengths. Killing the mobs trapped in his tentacles defeats the purpose of the augment; of course people are going to get angry with you. Its simple really. And there's nothing broken that needs fixing in the first place. 

 

And if i may say, during the event i ran into one hydroid, who kindly requested that we try to let him get the kills. One only who even mentioned this to me.

 

It should also be used to describe the aura around certain Ancient (Eximi), and Mutalist Ospreys. Those things are ridiculous.

 

"Not bad enough." Based on... what? The sheer prevalence of threads about it and the way certain drops work (Four RIders, Vermilion Storm, etc) seems to imply that your opinion is in the extreme minority.

 

Going to compare it to other games? Well, other games obviously aren't this game. Everything else being broken doesn't excuse being only somewhat less broken. That argument is basically to settle for less - "shut up, other games have it worse". And as a rationale to justify game balancing decisions, that argument is effectively useless.

+1

 

Like i said before, there is no factual problem to begin with.

 

Well-said.  If Pilfering Swarm is bad for the game, then IDK what we shoud say about Peacemaker, Miasma, MPrime, Stomp, Radial Disarm, etc...

Your ability is OP and your ability is OP. Every warframe's ability is OP!

 

Yeah ,  i agree

People only dusted him off just to use Pilfering Swarm. imo his other abilities need a look at in order to make him more appealing.

[Tesseract7777]

You seem really, extremely hostile, and to be honest it makes me think you are having some kind of emotional backlash to what I posted. You sound quite angry. 

 

 

Look, you don't have to agree with me. That's totally fine, but the attitude is unecessary. Many people literally DID NOT read the thread. That's why I have "harped" about that. Many people did not read at all, and simply posted "No you want to do away with farming and I hate you" and clearly didn't read a damned thing. 

 

And as for the rest, no it's not about me not liking a particular playstyle and wanting it to change because of that. It's because of what the devs have said constantly, it is clear that a playstyle where everyone just sits around while tentacles kill stuff and then grabs loot is clearly not what they bloody intended. They have said before so much they don't like the do nothing but one button and don't use your weapons strategy. 

 

It also makes the ability pretty much useless later game and fall off hard. It does discourage good team play, and just because you haven't had a problem, doesn't mean it isn't or can't be an issue. 

 

You sound so high and mighty, like you came down on your throne to talk to this little person beneath you, and "put them in their place". Can the attitude, if you don't like the suggestion that's fine, but you absolutely don't need to talk to me like that. 

 

How is it a good thing that his ability drops of super hard at any kind of high level? How in any way is that GOOD? How is it good that it discourages people to actually kill things? You haven't answered that. You just basically said "It is fine for the game because I think it is fine, therefore it is no problem at all and your opinion is invalid". In other words, you said your opinion is better than mine solely by virtue of the fact that it is your opinion. 

 

That's your argument. I'm right because your wrong and I'm right. Very convincing.