Can Rhino Be After Limbo For Reworks?

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

I doubt limbo is getting a rework. Just adding banish with rift walk.

[TheBrsrkr]

Those suggested passives/buffs sound a bit... Much. If other frames got these sort of passives/buffs (slightly toned down of course) it wouldn't pose much of a problem, as it'd give frames a bit more of an identity.

Well he is the tank Frame, so I tried for.... tankyness. The Quick Thinking one would be quite insane, but swing speed and knockdown resistance aren't all that bad.

As for buffs, a solid 100 health for levelling extra is a noticeable but not massive difference for Rhino Prime, and the Armor buff just makes sense. I hope they Keep it balanced though. Noob Rhino Primes becoming more nooby isn't going to help anyone.

[Valiant]

I disagree with this statement. I find the current snowglobe design to be quite strong and flexible.

 

Agreed. 

 

These two powers are generally fine though they suffer from the same damage scaling problem as many damage powers of warframe. Though I think it might be cool if avalanche was a targeted abilitty he could use at range like Hydroids tenticale swarm. Something not stuck right on his location. 

 

Overall I find frosts main flaw is his poor mobility due to low movespeed and no mobility power.

Sometimes I think DE should just give up on frost current 1 and give him something for traversal.

Perhaps something along the lines the ice slide that the cryomancer in Skyforge has.

I don't find his globe that strong or even flexible. His changes were brought in to try and change frost from constantly guarding his globe. Problem is that one of frost's primary roles ishis globe so drawing players/the team away from the globe wasn't going to happen. Due to it having hp now it can easily whittle away rather quickly, even with some strength mods. So you're not only now constantly being aware of a timer but also the health of the globe. The supposed flexibility? Again it seems to be the opposite as leaving the globe and not paying attention, just so you can possibly do something else in the meantime is manageable but also risky, due to the hp which you have to estimate is low. The stacking effect? Seems to only last about 10 seconds or so. So making one strong globe isn't possible. If you could stack one globes hp multiple times (I.e priming it) but only in the first 5-10 seconds of its creation I think that'd bring it up to a more durable level. However, I'm not sure right now on how I'd balance that out.

I'm fine with what his '1' does, just not its mechanics. Regarding the sliding idea I think it'd be decent as a secondary bonus (not an augment as frost obviously needs his slots) to his second ability. But yes the damage of his abilities is slightly lacking, even if they're crowd control based.

[Acos]

I really do want Rhino changed so that he is the premier 'tank' that wades into battle, gets shot, and flexes the bullets out of his armor. While I don't think current Rhino is bad, I don't think he fits the thematic he's supposed to fulfill either. 

 

That said, I think Rhino's problem has a lot more to do with how much damage the game does to us, and how very few ways we have to address that that aren't purely crowd control abilities. Our actual tanking options are very limited and make very little practical difference. That probably needs to change to validate more styles of gameplay. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by Acos

[(PSN)Shadowfoxx307]

Why are people calling for a Limbo rework that's literally the stupidest thing I think I have EVER heard 

[RoboDoge]

I really do want Rhino changed so that he is the premier 'tank' that wades into battle, gets shot, and flexes the bullets out of his armor. While I don't think current Rhino is bad, I don't think he fits the thematic he's supposed to fulfill either. 

 

That said, I think Rhino's problem has a lot more to do with how much damage the game does to us, and how very few ways we have to address that that aren't purely crowd control abilities. Our actual tanking options are very limited and make very little practical difference. That probably needs to change to validate more styles of gameplay. 

Quite easy to do that. Remove damage from his powers and make them "aggro" when used.

[Domukaru]

They replaced the 3rd ability with Roar. That's pretty much it.

Rhino has been reworked a total of 12 times, yes, 12 times since the game released. He used to be immortal, then extremely powerful & now balanced and useful, but not godlike. He's fine the way he is. I use charge a lot because i like getting 660% Increased armor rating ontop of the base Steel Fiber mod when Iron Skin is ripped apart. I don't use Rhino much, only for ranking up guns due to being able to buff S#&$ty non-catalyst weapons for a good duration so they can actually kill stuff. He's completely fine & in my opinion, doesn't need anymore work done. There's a lot more other frames who could use a touch up. Don't base your opinions on warframes if all you do is spam abilities.

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

We got the Excalibur rework, which is more than welcome and honestly should have been done a long time ago.

Next up is Frost, who got booted back by Excalibur. He deserves a good rework as well.

Hopefully after that is Limbo, who is rather unjustly hated, but admittedly spends more than half his time casting one thing or the other, and is probably the only Frame almost forced to use Natural Talent. Also, infinite trolling.

After those three, can we get a Rhino rework please? Rhino's been needing some changes for a long time now. Iron Skin in particular needs it, but Roar and Rhino Charge isn't exactly at the pinnacle of usefulness. There's also the complete lack of scaling for anything but Roar, and how OP Iron Skin is in the starchart. His stigma is "noob frame" doesn't help either, and the lowered speed honestly has no place in Warframe anymore.

 

Here's my rework suggestion, if anyone cares:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/410642-hopefully-the-last-thread-about-rhino-and-his-abilities/

I never felt limbo needed a rework and I never use natural talent on him. He's probably the best solo frame ATM.

[TheBrsrkr]

Rhino has been reworked a total of 12 times, yes, 12 times since the game released. He used to be immortal, then extremely powerful & now balanced and useful, but not godlike. He's fine the way he is. I use charge a lot because i like getting 660% Increased armor rating ontop of the base Steel Fiber mod when Iron Skin is ripped apart. I don't use Rhino much, only for ranking up guns due to being able to buff S#&$ty non-catalyst weapons for a good duration so they can actually kill stuff. He's completely fine & in my opinion, doesn't need anymore work done. There's a lot more other frames who could use a touch up. Don't base your opinions on warframes if all you do is spam abilities.

You were doing really well up until that last part. The truth is, I don't really use Rhino's abilities all that much anymore. With the sheer 1280 shields and 820 health I have with Vigor on top of redirection and vitality, there's very little I need to do other than the occasional stomp and Iron Skin for knockdown resistance on Bombards. He's good in solo ,good for.melee play, but horrible in the higher levels. Stomp's stun of 8 seconds and Roar's small buff compared to,well, any other buff, means that Rhino only has small amounts of CC and damage, and little utility. Also, as the designated tank frame, he takes frightfully little punishment in high level content to be proficient at his task. Literally every damage reduction skill scales better than iron skin right now. On the same note, it is way too powerful on the star chart. You could pop one of these at the start of a.mission and.it could last all the way to the end. That needs to change. Finally, Rhino completely fails at a tank's task, which is to draw all enemy aggro from the rest of the team and survive it. This is why Rhino needs a rework.

[Zarozian]

Personally I would go for base knockdown resistance, and a sort of free Quick Thinking shot once per full heal. Increased swing speed with Hammers and Heavy Blades would be good too. That second one might cause some problems though.

Whoops, I thought you meant iassives. Sorry about that.

Hmmmm, a Rhino Prime buff... Some more armor would be good, anywhere between 240-300 would be nice. Slight energy buff to 200, and more health, because shields are pretty good. Will get back with specific numbers, because I'm not sure on specifics.

When I say health, I don't.mean base health, mind you. Let's not give people a reason to complain.

Yeah that sounds about right.

 

Rhino and Rhino Prime should be the heaviest Warframe for a reason right?

 

Maybe cause of all that armor and shield generators......But really though.....why is he considered the heaviest warframe?

[Zarozian]

You were doing really well up until that last part. The truth is, I don't really use Rhino's abilities all that much anymore. With the sheer 1280 shields and 820 health I have with Vigor on top of redirection and vitality, there's very little I need to do other than the occasional stomp and Iron Skin for knockdown resistance on Bombards. He's good in solo ,good for.melee play, but horrible in the higher levels. Stomp's stun of 8 seconds and Roar's small buff compared to,well, any other buff, means that Rhino only has small amounts of CC and damage, and little utility. Also, as the designated tank frame, he takes frightfully little punishment in high level content to be proficient at his task. Literally every damage reduction skill scales better than iron skin right now. On the same note, it is way too powerful on the star chart. You could pop one of these at the start of a.mission and.it could last all the way to the end. That needs to change. Finally, Rhino completely fails at a tank's task, which is to draw all enemy aggro from the rest of the team and survive it. This is why Rhino needs a rework.

He should have something that forcibly pulls all the enemies to him in his face lol.

 

Maybe something used with Roar.

[Gr3vi3R]

One does not simply touch a Master Race.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[Abenoki]

Whats wrong with Rhino? Hes been reworked twice specifically his IS which everyone complained about was god mode. Im a fairly dedicated Rhino player and find him to be mostly fine as is, maybe buff IS a little so that it uses armor in its health calculation like snow globe does but thats about it. The only real tweak he needs is for armor to matter with IS because it would make it more useful in later waves on Survival and Defense (though will still eventually hit a wall)

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Rhino's Iron skin badly needs a rework buff its defensive stats and iron skin HP with an increase in iron skin hp by 500 per rank so at rank 4 the skill should have 3.2k hp without power strength mods applied yet and scales with power strength mods and also rhino's HP and SHIELDS should directly affect iron skins hp as well with 50% of both rhinos Shields and HP stats combined as additive for iron skins hp and finally having 10 secs of temporary invulnerability on initial cast similar to Frosts globe this will make IRON SKIN viable and usable at end game again.

Edited June 4, 2015 by HARDCORE_DAVE

[Ronyn]

 

Whats wrong with Rhino? Hes been reworked twice specifically his IS which everyone complained about was god mode.

As a frame, Rhino was reworked once. Iron skin itself has been remade three times.

Note: not everyone complained about it being god mode....just enough people for it to be a loud complaint.

At any rate the last time iron skin's numerical values were adjusted was before the enemy scaling was changed so that enemies do far more damage now than they use to. Which is probably why you feel that it needs some sort of buff. Which I agree that it does.

Though I'd take it as an opportunity to see what we could really do with its mechanics.

[theonetastyweasel]

Idk why frost is on the table yet again.

Limbo is a frame that needs to be a frame so yah, major rework for him, almost scrap it and restart from the ground up.

Saryn needs a rework, since she only haves a good ultimate, wile her other abilities are trash or too much situanional.

Mirage could also need a tweek, since she is ability #1 dependent, and it almost makes all her other abilities not so needed.

 

As for rhino I just hope this isnt one of those "please buff iron skin, because I'm a huge noob" tread.

Rhino as the biggest stats for:

health

shields

and armor

and a very energy cheap ability (iron skin) to make him even more invulnerable.

To top it all, a great ultimate that deals good damage, but also stuns the enemies for a long wile.

Rhino doesn't really scale well for late game. I mean, sure his stomp stun in ok lategame, but the dmg is useless. Yet again, his roar is OK lategame but costs a lot of energy for a pretty short duration, and modding specifically for roar makes makes him too inflexible for anything else imo.

Iron skin is useless lategame or even before. Lasts less than 1 second t heavy gunners or Ceres so not sure if that makes him invulnerable at all.

So really the only good thing about Rhino once enemy's get to around level 40 is his ult. Which he can't really use much because he has a terrible energy pool. Almost your entire argument about Rhino is full of incorrect information and seems to be written from the perspective of a <MR 5 player.

[Abenoki]

 

 

As a frame, Rhino was reworked once. Iron skin itself has been remade three times.

Note: not everyone complained about it being god mode....just enough people for it to be a loud complaint.

At any rate the last time iron skin's numerical values were adjusted was before the enemy scaling was changed so that enemies do far more damage now than they use to. Which is probably why you feel that it needs some sort of buff. Which I agree that it does.

Though I'd take it as an opportunity to see what we could really do with its mechanics.

 

 

I only remember IS being remade 2 times, first time it was given dmg reduction and removed CC invul, second time returned the CC invul and gave it health. What one am i missing?

 

I just think it needs to add armor to calculation, thats pretty much it, though they probably could tinker with it a little more if they wanted.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Echoa

[Abenoki]

Iron skin is useless lategame or even before. Lasts less than 1 second t heavy gunners or Ceres so not sure if that makes him invulnerable at all.

 

 

How do you have your Rhino modded? lol xP because it takes a bit more than a second for me

[Abenoki]

rhino's HP and SHIELDS should directly affect iron skins hp as well with 50% of both rhinos Shields and HP stats combined as additive for iron skins hp and finally having 10 secs of temporary invulnerability on initial cast similar to Frosts globe this will make IRON SKIN viable and usable at end game again.

 

 

Idk if i like the first part of that, but if it worked similar to snow globe id be rather pleased, though 10sec is a bit much, 4-5sec is just fine like snow globe.

[Ronyn]

I only remember IS being remade 2 times, first time it was given dmg reduction and removed CC invul, second time returned the CC invul and gave it health. What one am i missing?

You're right, I meant to say there have been three versions of iron skin...not that its been remade three times. whoops. lol

 

I just think it needs to add armor to calculation, thats pretty much it, though they probably could tinker with it a little more if they wanted.

I have a lot of thoughts on what they could do with it. But its getting late...

 

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 Lasts less than 1 second t heavy gunners or Ceres so not sure if that makes him invulnerable at all.

That's embellishing.

 having 10 secs of temporary invulnerability on initial cast 

That's a bit much.

 

Iron Skin needs work but let's keep our heads about us here guys.

[TheBrsrkr]

He should have something that forcibly pulls all the enemies to him in his face lol.

Maybe something used with Roar.

In my rework suggestion both Iron skin and Roar would draw all aggro towards Rhino, who would then absorb the damage for 5-8 seconds and turn it into more Heath for Iron skin.

Roar would boost more and draw aggro, but have slight damage reduction, and not draw as much aggro as iron skin if possible.

[Latronico]

Well, I can understand if you say Rhino Charge isn't really that much (except in PvP, where it is a must). But all the other abilities are great. Iron Skin is just wonderful, Roar can both buff allies or debuff enemies, Stomp is a good CC ability. I mean, why should he be reworked?

[BETAOPTICS]

I do not even mind that you can not pick up items in the void because it would make Limbo over powered. Think about it, you can not be harmed from the outside but you can just have a duration build and get all the health and energy orbs and be nearly unvulnerable. It would be a half working god mode basically. I think he could use a emergion of 2nd and 3rd ability into the 2nd ability and add like a ability that would either add durability while in void so you would have a lot more reasons to hide on that dimension or duality ability that wouod also give you some other effect when not in void.

[trst]

People keep saying to merge Rift Surge with Banish and Rift Walk, but it really can't be balanced for him.

 

If you ever look at just how much damage Limbo does gain out of Rift Surge then you would understand why he is both so frail and has such long casting times.

 

Being able to do so much to enemies with just two ability casts then he'd start falling more in-favor then other frames with higher-leveled content than just being there for reviving and keeping Mesa invulerable. I mean, yes, that does sound like a really good thing but it could hit the point of just being too overpowered.

I do not even mind that you can not pick up items in the void because it would make Limbo over powered. Think about it, you can not be harmed from the outside but you can just have a duration build and get all the health and energy orbs and be nearly unvulnerable. It would be a half working god mode basically. I think he could use a emergion of 2nd and 3rd ability into the 2nd ability and add like a ability that would either add durability while in void so you would have a lot more reasons to hide on that dimension or duality ability that wouod also give you some other effect when not in void.

But Cataclysm currently is just a more complicated and worse Snowglobe used like that. And Limbo currently does have a fully working god-mode thats better than pre-nerf Trinity (because Banish has absurde duration compaired to Blessing).

 

Picking up items in it is really just a QOL change and anti-trolling measure.

[TheBrsrkr]

You know, this was meant to be a Rhino thread :/

Anyways, my problem with Limbo is that he violates one of the laws of a good ability: no one ability should depend on another for effectivesess. ALL of his abilities but Cataclysm depend on each other to work, but Cataclysm is simply a fusion of both his 1 and 2. More diversity is needed.