Stop Pretending The Prime Vault Isn't A Cash Grab

[Archistopheles]

There's nothing wrong with either. My problem, which I reiterated many times in the OP, is that they're trying to pass it off as something else.

They're being diplomatic. The butcher shop doesn't show cows being killed, they show tasty burger in neat packages.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Archistopheles

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

They're being diplomatic. The butcher shop doesn't show cows being killed, they show tasty burger in neat packages.

The butcher shop doesn't try to tell you you're getting veggie burgers.

[CarrotSalad]

Star Chart 3.0 will "blow up the Void", and spread prime rewards into normal nodes.

If Frost and Mag don't return then, then I can share your distaste, but now, no, it just feels like a bump in the road and conspiracy theory galore.

 

I dont beleive it simply because we've heard no information on it for 10 months now. As more devstreams passby with no information. I think more and more it was just a buzz word they used to divert attention and justify the addition of more grind.

We see politicians do this allot. Just make it "seem" like youre doing something about it. By making a promise and attach a short slogan like "blow up the void". Then lead people on and sing about it like some rainbow is incoming. Ofcourse people place trust in what they promise so will stop asking for it.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Emphasis mine. Not a cash grab, since DE isn't selling the retired Primes.

That said, cannot upvote this enough.

(Orokin Cells didn't drop in the void, except off Vor)

 

P.S.

If at least you got the same key that you used, I'd get that.

'Aww, too bad. Here - try again!'

But no. RNG on which key you get when looking for them, RNG (subject to drop tables) which you get for the one you used.

Trading is an indirect way for them to make money, and Orokin Cells did used to drop in the Void (but now I'm realizing it's probably been over a year since they last did and a large number of players might not realize they ever did...)

I honestly would still be annoyed with the same key, save in rotation A of endless T1 and maybe T2 missions.

Primes are slight upgrades to their original , a regular loki/frost/mag will do you just as good as a prime. DE removed it but they will be coming back in the future , if someone still wants to buy it after that then you need to have a lot of plat or you really want a shiny cosmetic prime. The void will also explode so that most likely will solve RNG problems. I trust DE since they don't have a history of money grappers unlike other companies. I have faith in DE ;p.

They probably want a rotating cast of primes to lure people back into the game when one of their favorite frames is available as a prime, kind of like how League of Legends has a rotating cast of free and discounted characters. Since warframe primes are only marginally better than their vanilla versions I can't really get too worked up about this. For the weapons it's true that we're losing a good shotgun and sword, but this game has so many damn weapons that no one is really going to miss them, especially given that there are similar but superior non-prime weapons available on the market and dojo.

Although you have a fair point about frames, we're losing arguably the best shotgun (real shotgun, not Kohm or Phage), lost what was almost certainly the best longsword and already lost the best non-event semiauto rifle. The only way to get them is by paying. I'm at the point where I won't sell the parts out of disdain for how it's been handled. And again, I dislike the lies about the reasoning more than anything else.

[ThePresident777]

The keys are useful because it allows players to keep playing in the void and the keys have always been avaiable strictly as rewards.  What's diluting the void drop tables is enemy loot, that can be found in the Star Chart even, i.e. Orokin Cells, credits, and Fusion cores. 

 

We complained about RNG, so DE increased RNG by making cells and cores scarce.  Then we complained about void reward table dilution, so DE increased the void table dilution by putting cells and cores in it, and credits.  Keep in mind that this is star chart enemy loot that DE is clogging the void reward tables with.

 

That's DE's MO.  They listen to our complaints, then make matters worse, then pass off the current problem as the solution to the last problem they created, then call it evolution, rinse and repeat.  Think of that the next time you think of parkour 2.0, star chart 3.0, "balance" or anything else in Warframe.

Edited July 1, 2015 by ThePresident777

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

All vaulted prime parts will come back when the Void is voided, which is probably coming with Star Chart 3.0 in U17. It's not so much a cash grab as it is the laziest possible solution to a problem that won't exist very soon. I can understand that, but the laziness is still to be frowned upon.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

All vaulted prime parts will come back when the Void is voided, which is probably coming with Star Chart 3.0 in U17. It's not so much a cash grab as it is the laziest possible solution to a problem that won't exist very soon. I can understand that, but the laziness is still to be frowned upon.

As I said to Devoid, I am also assuming this is the case. But DE did it in a way that guaranteed platinum sales would go up for these items. It's not less of a cash grab because it's temporary.

Also, as I explained in my second paragraph, it solved absolutely nothing last time, failing to improve dilution at all.

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

The prime vault is just to keep the diluted drop tables from becoming more diluted until they have a plan for them. Besides, they disappear in order so just get them in order before they leave. They stay for 2 years before being retired, that's enough time. For new players, primes are not necessary, esp the older ones since they have no stat advantages and there models are barely different.

you know we have the entire orokin derelict loot table we could sent the less desirable prime items to...

[Macframe]

How can you honestly believe that when you just look at drops in the void? normal t1 survival run: key, key, key/forma bp, forma bp/common prime part, key, key, forma bp etc same applies to T1 defence and to T3 survival, just replace keys with orokin cells. Also legendary T1 capture where 9 out 10 times you get the key reward and in T1,2 sabotage where you get either resources or key from caches. Removing something from drop table HAS NOT fixed void dillution. Make things worse, they have derelict, do they use it? F no.

 

Nailed it. In order to help dilution by reducing items only works if all items have equal chance to drop. A void map can have only 2 items in drop table, but if it's DE, they'll have one with 99% chance and the other 1%. The one with 1% will have insane value and the other one is junk, not much different than what's now.

 

That aside, grinding in voids has been incredibly boring, how about new maps and enemies, but no, they choose the easy/lazy way to get people to play more by messing with probability.

 

[Konnivar]

There are a lot of things that are messed up with the current state of the void, not just dilution.  While spreading the missions out to different tilesets would offer different scenery, in the end the mission would still use a void key and the drop tables would likely be the same.

 

Shameless plug:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/483282-orokin-void-and-prime-drop-feedback-thread-wall-of-text-warning-tldr-at-the-bottom/

[Rakosta_Kai]

Star Chart 3.0 will "blow up the Void", and spread prime rewards into normal nodes.

If Frost and Mag don't return then, then I can share your distaste, but now, no, it just feels like a bump in the road and conspiracy theory galore.

 

Negative... That's not a conspiracy theory.

 

It's just basic economics...

 

Create rarity or exclusivity and more money is paid for it.

 

The problem is that it's a pricing model and monetization tactic that has a limited shelf-life in online gaming... It works now, but it won't forever.

....Sadly, the reputation it garners will last indefinitely.

Once you make a certain kind of name in the online game space it sticks with you whether it's deserved or not.

 

The "conspiracy theories" regarding monetization and pricing tactics are going to be a hurdle for DE down the road... Either in this game (if it ever comes out of beta) or the next.

[ThePresident777]

People complain about Void reward table dilution but say nothing about the Star Chart loot clogging the Void rewards table.  Amazing.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Because the only way to get platinum is via buying it, right?

Yes, someone has to buy the plat. The people trading it to you didn't get it from the magical platinum fairy.

[Yezzik]

I had the idea of making primes and other skins into rewards for completing frame-specific challenges (sort of a replacement for the outdated Mastery test system).

[rockscl]

This returns value to the primes to be removed, no one cared about mag prime 1 week ago, and it will return for sure

 

 

Edited July 2, 2015 by rockscl

[H3dsh0t]

Star Chart 3.0 will "blow up the Void", and spread prime rewards into normal nodes.

If Frost and Mag don't return then, then I can share your distaste, but now, no, it just feels like a bump in the road and conspiracy theory galore.

 

Very early on in this thread and still by far the best answer. The new star chart is completely reworking the way drops work, the way we access the void, everything will be changing. However, in the meantime, the simplest way to introduce the new primes into the game without having to redesign the whole system while they in the middle of redesigning the whole system, is to do a straight 1 for 1 swap between the parts. The same thing applied to frost prime as it does here. No conspiracy theory here, just simple common sense.

[Slaviar]

Almost all rotations A and B have 2-3 parts, few have none but every C has >5. Derelict has mere few on Def and Surv C. If it wasn't enough guaranteed part on C was silently removed. But people will still believe Prime Vault prevents void dillution.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

This returns value to the primes to be removed, no one cared about mag prime 1 week ago, and it will return for sure

 

 

I don't have a problem with them doing things to make money, as I've now said at least thrice. My problem is the excuses they gave instead of being forthcoming. I don't know where you're seeing paranoia in that.

Very early on in this thread and still by far the best answer. The new star chart is completely reworking the way drops work, the way we access the void, everything will be changing. However, in the meantime, the simplest way to introduce the new primes into the game without having to redesign the whole system while they in the middle of redesigning the whole system, is to do a straight 1 for 1 swap between the parts. The same thing applied to frost prime as it does here. No conspiracy theory here, just simple common sense.

There was no one for one swap between parts. Read the second paragraph of my OP. They took parts from some locations, added new ones to completely different ones, and then acted like it was to reduce dilution when that made no sense given where the parts were placed. And again, why are Orokin Cells, Forma, and keys still all over the tables?

[(PSN)NewYorkGameflow]

Im not sure where DE is headed with Primes being removed or drop tables, but I know im loosing friends and clan mates cause of things like RNG, Grind, Repetition, Drop Tables...

I lost friends that have over 3,000 hours in Warframe, and not just one or two, plenty. If these are the type of people that go and hard grind to sell prime parts then eventually there wont be many prime parts in trade cause only the hard core players are effected by RNG, Drop Tables, Repetition and such.

DE should consider, yea, new players might be putting up the plat but its the hard core players that provide some of the goods. Prime Packs are a different story.

Maybe this is why Primes are being removed. Perhaps DE will start bringing Prime Parts to Darvo in the future. Who knows, maybe Vaulted Primes will start coming around in TAs with incredibly low drop rates.. which doesn't do much for people who need them as a set but it does only bring a few back in circulation making their value astronomical.

Personally, I gave up on grinding Primes for trades. I just like playing the game.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I don't have a problem with them doing things to make money, as I've now said at least thrice. My problem is the excuses they gave instead of being forthcoming. I don't know where you're seeing paranoia in that.

There was no one for one swap between parts. Read the second paragraph of my OP. They took parts from some locations, added new ones to completely different ones, and then acted like it was to reduce dilution when that made no sense given where the parts were placed. And again, why are Orokin Cells, Forma, and keys still all over the tables?

I don't know. But before the did add the amount of Orokin cells and Forma to the void it sure was a pain to get them. Now the only resource I find challenging to get is Tellerium.

As Devoid, and H3adshot pointed out, the whole system could be changing with the new Star Chart. Who knows, with mission crafting you maybe able to target a reward. We will have to see. Also I've been here the whole time and watched all the Dev streams and don't feel lied to. The Dev at worst have struggled with this issue, and things haven't always worked out how the wanted, but I don't get the whole, they don't care vibe. If that wasn't you OP, I apologize.

[Valafor]

They could've easily fixed the drop tables by removing all the crap in them. Rather than remove 4 weapons and 2 Primed frames, they could've easily just make sure one primed part only drops in one place, and remove all the keys, orokin cells, and all the uncommon fusion cores in the drop tables and replace them with primed parts. But nope, they have to keep hunting down primed parts a pain in the rear so more people will buy Primed Access or trade for parts using platinum they either bought or they traded for from someone else who bought platinum.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Valafor

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I don't know. But before the did add the amount of Orokin cells and Forma to the void it sure was a pain to get them. Now the only resource I find challenging to get is Tellerium.

As Devoid, and H3adshot pointed out, the whole system could be changing with the new Star Chart. Who knows, with mission crafting you maybe able to target a reward. We will have to see. Also I've been here the whole time and watched all the Dev streams and don't feel lied to. The Dev at worst have struggled with this issue, and things haven't always worked out how the wanted, but I don't get the whole, they don't care vibe. If that wasn't you OP, I apologize.

When they added Forma it was a blessing to people. Then they were added to end of mission rewards. Then their drop rate was increased to the point where they dropped in at least a quarter of the time. Then they were added to rotation C. Did they need to be in all those places? No, and as I said, the high level starchart missions would've provided a great alternative for making them fairly common.

Orokin cells weren't hard to find when they dropped from Void enemies. Then, when removed from the Void (which nobody asked for) they became more difficult to get, although at the time (and even now) I assumed it was to incentivise playing Ceres more. Having them as rewards has always been a slap in the face.

As I've said now at least four times, I understand that change is coming. But that doesn't excuse what they did here, which was remove items and then present a clearly invalid reason as to why.

[Sloan441]

Or maybe it's just players with over-developed senses of persecution looking for an excuse to feel victimized.

 

So...greedy capitalist game company looking to stick it to the little guy (because, hey, they can), or forum dwellers playing the victim?

 

I know which I'm willing to bet on.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Because the only way to get platinum is via buying it, right?

Yes. Someone has to buy it. Whether or not it was you or someone else who bought  is beside the point. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Or maybe it's just players with over-developed senses of persecution looking for an excuse to feel victimized.

 

So...greedy capitalist game company looking to stick it to the little guy (because, hey, they can), or forum dwellers playing the victim?

 

I know which I'm willing to bet on.

Then you'd better be able to explain away everything I wrote. I don't feel like a victim; I have all this stuff. I'm just done excusing DE for doing things companies like EA and Ubisoft would rightly get called out on, and I'm increasingly losing trust in them.