RealPandemonium Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Anyone else see these and be like "wat?" Edited July 3, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripletriple Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) The changes are completely irrelevant ember is still bad, but its a baby step in the right direction. Edited July 3, 2015 by tripletriple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailith Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) I haven't tried her yet, but I'm pleasantly surprised by the changes. It's nice to see that DE are taking a more synergistic approach to balancing or tweaking powers rather than just saying "Accelerant and World on Fire do more damage" or something like that. Now we get utility buffs, combos, and things that make the abilities just 'feel' better. I like it. Edited July 3, 2015 by Ailith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahuHordika Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 As said by Ailith, I think they learned from Excal and now are trying to properly synergize abilities with each other. This is more QoL changes than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Bunny Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Her fault is that wof realies on both duration and energy consumption. Yet they didn't touch this. They gave her some nice fixes but didn't touch the major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yopee Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I definitely appreciate the buffs to Accelerant so that it's slightly more useful even if I'm not using fire weapons. Haven't tried it out yet but the casting speed buff might actually help a lot with pumping abilities out. Still really sad that they haven't made up their mind about whether to go with duration or channeling for WoF :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroia Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Basically everything everyone has said ^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Her fault is that wof realies on both duration and energy consumption. Yet they didn't touch this. They gave her some nice fixes but didn't touch the major issue. I definitely appreciate the buffs to Accelerant so that it's slightly more useful even if I'm not using fire weapons. Haven't tried it out yet but the casting speed buff might actually help a lot with pumping abilities out. Still really sad that they haven't made up their mind about whether to go with duration or channeling for WoF :( That's because there is no issue, its channeling so that we can deactivate it early and not use up energy unecessarily. Its duration based so that you don't have ~24,000dps running constantly. It also gives relevance to duration mods and stops us running max effciency and gimping her other abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaSierraMike Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm fairly sure Ember just turned into pre LoS radial blind Excal, minus the blind damage bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble_Cactus Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Cast speed is a nice niche that no other frame fills so far, but everything else is decidedly "eh." Her fault is that wof realies on both duration and energy consumption. Yet they didn't touch this. They gave her some nice fixes but didn't touch the major issue. I have a feeling that they're going to rework her entirely at some point in the near (soon?) future, like Rhino, so they're holding off on her major issues until they get around to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) The problem is, while her ultimate would ideally run purely on toggle/energy consumption, DE designed all toggled skills to eventually be turned off - so in order to fill that request, Duration was kept as a counterbalance, to limit a source of passive radial damage. If we want Duration removed and toggling to stay, it needs a new limiter. Reduced mobility or survivability is counter-intuitive to her design, it'd be worthless if you couldn't use weapons, so... what? Personally, I think World on Fire should be scrapped anyway. Part of Ember's problem is that she has no "theme" - she has aesthetics and an element, but no playstyle synergy or skill ceiling beyond redundant stuns. The radial damage skills worked well when she had Overheat to protect her as she suicide-bombed into the fray, but since they added Accelerant in its place and gave Fire Blast innate knockback, she's been leaning towards your typical ranged pyromancer - aside from her antiquated ultimate. If we want her to get an Excalibur-style rework, she needs to pick a side, and World on Fire is presently her weakest link. Edited July 3, 2015 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidTheSid Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 She got a nice buff and is a lot more enjoyable to play as, but her two biggest issues still remain, namely: 1). Her squishy nature that conflicts with her very aggressive and very close-ranged skillset 2). The Toggle/Duration combo on her ultimate. What would I do to fix this? For starters, I'd give her a passive lifesteal on her spells, say 5% or so. This lets her be far more aggressive than she currently is without worrying about constantly being downed (which happens quite a lot, despite her recent armor buff). Then, I'd remove duration on World on Fire. Make it a straight up toggle, or revert the changes in the last major rework/buff. As it stands, it's the awful half-breed of duration and a toggle, and is very cumbersome to use. Also, her augment mod should be part of the core ability. While we're at it, Fire Blast should have its augment mod converted into the base ability and Fire Fright can be changed into a HOT or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Bunny Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) That's because there is no issue, its channeling so that we can deactivate it early and not use up energy unecessarily. Its duration based so that you don't have ~24,000dps running constantly. It also gives relevance to duration mods and stops us running max effciency and gimping her other abilities. There is no rule that says the ability must channel energy to be able to turn on and off at will. We could have the ability be built on duration and still be toggable. What you're saying is to have her be based on duration like she was before. There's no problem with that, the problem is mixing both channeling and duration. She is a caster frame so she does need the energy and two other abilities rely on duration. The problem is when both channeling and duration are on one ability, they become a hindrance to each other. Edited July 3, 2015 by Postal_pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viedra_Lavinova Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 The changes are a small step, but I feel DE wouldn't bother fixing her unless they do a complete rework, which she does need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 tops us running max effciency and gimping her other abilities. Max efficiency benefits all of Ember's abilities. Assumptions like these are why so many people think Ember doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapedBaldy Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Ember is just bad design. Overly reliant on Accelerant, buffing it again will just worsen the issue. Some people will just say, she's fine because Accelerant is so good. Doesn't stop her from being overly reliant on Accelerant. Fire Blast is so self-conflicting. Dealing knockback and a ring of fire, what do you want? If there haven't been any fixes, fire procs are still broken too when paired with knockdown. World on Fire is a toggle, why? There's no reason to end early asides from energy consumption since all the bonus goodies are on cast. Prism gives you a good reason to end early, but why would you end WoF early? It's not like you really want to decide when to end it like say, Absorb, Prism, Exalted Blade, Effigy (position and armour, just in case you want to say anything). Revert it to previous non-toggle style with the current stats at least. It's not even overpowered to revert it so WoF gets best of both world since Accelerant is already a harsh energy penalty. And why is there a target limit so harsh on such a close quarter ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAbyssWalker1 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 either remove the damn duration on WoF or the damn energy drain. this is not that hard, its not like its going to brake her or anything. ITS NOT THAT HARD DE! everyone has been asking for an ember fix WHY ARE YOU IGNORING US!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defendor Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Buffing Accelerant isn't the way to go. Accelerant is already good. Her other abilities are the ones that suck. Sure, you could call this synergy, but it's not interesting synergy. Chroma has interesting synergy. Ember's "synergy"is just using Accelerant before every other ability. If I were in charge of balancing, I'd slowly integrate her augments into her abilities and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Chroma has interesting synergy. What kind of synergy does Chroma have besides maintaining two buffs and deciding whether you want your ult or extra armor? That's not even really synergy. Edited July 3, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzkyl Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 What kind of synergy does Chroma have besides maintaining two buffs and deciding whether you want your ult or extra armor? That's not even really synergy. Yes, because people only build chroma one way.And by overly simplifying his skills I see how he has no synergy. /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yes, because people only build chroma one way.And by overly simplifying his skills I see how he has no synergy. /s Enlighten me, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 At the present time, I'm convinced that any changes made to Ember are only made in response to people who have no real idea what they want from her or what she is supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) At the present time, I'm convinced that any changes made in Warframe are only made in response to feedback from people who have no real idea what they want or what they are supposed to do. Fixed that for ya. Either that, or it's kind of random changes based on some prinicple or something that is more or less uninformed of the current state of gameplay. DE doesn't play their own game and when they do, they aren't remotely savvy about it. Edited July 3, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble_Cactus Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Fixed that for ya. Either that, or it's kind of random changes based on some prinicple or something that is more or less uninformed of the current state of gameplay. DE doesn't play their own game and when they do, they aren't remotely savvy about it. Well I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that DE seems to not really have a long-term plan for where they want to take their game, or at least a well-defined one. They make microadjustments here and there based on the game's immediate scope, in the hopes that a game will emerge from the muck over time. While that's an interesting experiment, it ultimately makes for a very discordant and messy project. It's very difficult to provide feedback on a game that has no clear direction. A quick look at the endless debate of "what really is endgame?" is testimony to that. Edited July 3, 2015 by Noble_Cactus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 "what really is endgame?" Here's a hint: it's not endless scaling. This is a painfully obvious fact that DE has ignored because it has been profitable for them (just conjecture; who knows where the money's coming from? Does DE know?) to do so over the past year with the deplorable powercreep feedback cycle we've been seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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