New Ember Changes

[oOFANGZOo]

OMG! Thank you so much DE. I hope this new update allows me to wreck groups above level 25

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Her fault is that wof realies on both duration and energy consumption. Yet they didn't touch this. They gave her some nice fixes but didn't touch the major issue.

this

[Crewell]

I'm kind of happy to see some changes happen. They make Ember a lot more playable. I kind of like the near instant cast Workd on Fire. I think it's better than a toggle. It really doesn't need duration like it is.

I still think Fire Blast needs a little something. I thought that giving allies a defense buff while standing in the Fire Blast effect. The waves of heat could be said ro make it difficult to target. Another option is to make it have a longer duration or larger diameter.

I still think Accelerant needs changing. Perhaps take the buff part out of it and make it a straight up crowd control. To compensate buff the base damage of Ember's other skills.

[RealPandemonium]

I still think Accelerant needs changing. Perhaps take the buff part out of it and make it a straight up crowd control. To compensate buff the base damage of Ember's other skills.

You want to buff Ember's base damages by 500-700%?  Is it not already straight crowd control?  What?

 

 

I'm kind of happy to see some changes happen. They make Ember a lot more playable.

I have hardly felt their effect.  The cast speed increase on Accelerant makes WoF and FB faster, yes, but it's nothing groundbreaking.  Possibly the biggest boost is that because WoF's animation is sped up so much, it starts ticking damage before the timer begins, effectively giving it an extra second or so of bonus duration.  Low duration builds (aka THE BEST BUILD) have been buffed further by the changes.  There's no polish in the update, though; just that one buff.  

Edited July 4, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[IfritKajiTora]

EMBER BUFF:

 

TL DR:
-Third Ability add quick Dash in any direction.
-Second Ability Ember can move with accelerant giving debuff to all enemies near her in 10 meters radius, half range from Accelerant cast. And movement buff.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/484533-ember-rework/#entry5407784

 

Edited July 4, 2015 by IfritKajiTora

[(XBOX)Skode]

I did find myself liking Ember at lot more after the last batch of changes for her but yet i couldnt help but feel she was too slow a caster. I didnt even think to request this be addressed yet here we are with DE more or less doing this for me. Im happy with these changes, nothing dramatic buff wise but definitely something she was needing and i cant wait to test these changes out for myself, whenever that will be.

[climatiseur]

Why would you want to end wof earlier?

Bcoz the initial cast of wof damages all enemies in range, while the rest are not, only around 3 at max at the same time.

The latest change on her is, as someone has said, favoring low duration build on her. Although I don't really like the idea of benefits from a reverse stat, it is useful.

Plz use her more to experiment, thanks.

[Ceryk]

These buffs are nice, but honestly I don't think anything other than the World on Fire cast rate change was really necessary. (Unless I've just gotten used to her changes already, lol) After her first round of changes, never had any issue playing her at a high level. Not sure why anyone would have any issue not playing her well with how her powers are at the moment.

 

 

Why would you want to end wof earlier?

Bcoz the initial cast of wof damages all enemies in range, while the rest are not, only around 3 at max at the same time.

The latest change on her is, as someone has said, favoring low duration build on her. Although I don't really like the idea of benefits from a reverse stat, it is useful.

Plz use her more to experiment, thanks.

 

I don't bother messing with her duration other than to keep it around 100% personally. Really no meaningful reason to increase her duration above 100%. But I agree. I don't think most people actually try things out and experiment in this game.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Ceryk

[RealPandemonium]

These buffs are nice, but honestly I don't think anything other than the World on Fire cast rate change was really necessary. (Unless I've just gotten used to her changes already, lol) After her first round of changes, never had any issue playing her at a high level. Not sure why anyone would have any issue not playing her well with how her powers are at the moment.

 

 

 

I don't bother messing with her duration other than to keep it around 100% personally. Really no meaningful reason to increase her duration above 100%. But I agree. I don't think most people actually try things out and experiment in this game.

If anything, low duration builds (I use 60% duration) are the best bet for Ember in her current state, and this buff is icing on the cake.

 

Just played a T3 Survival with Ryjeon to 55 mins.  The two of us were doing fine until level 100 Eximus started protecting the Nullifiers hard (elemental Eximus units give all nearby allies immunity to their element and derivatives thereof, as well as resistance to all other elements as well.) Honestly, if I had brought CP, a full suite of weapons, and actually made an effort we could have gone much further.  It was almost like a cakewalk up until that point anyway, and we didn't abuse camping shenanigans at any point in the run.  We also did a T4 MD in which no enemy got remotely near the pod and I was just lackadaisically running in circles for most of it.  Ember sucks, yo!

Edited July 4, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Crewell]

You want to buff Ember's base damages by 500-700%?  Is it not already straight crowd control?  What?

Where did I say a percentage to buff powers by? That's rught, I didn't. Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't even know where the hell you pulled a 500-700% from. Accelerant is only 250%. The actual number I had in mind was 50-100%. That would be up to DE to determine for balance.

A lot of players seem to think Accelerant is a damage buff for the duration of the ability, but it only is a buff against the targets that got affected by the stun part of it. The only thing that lasts for the duration is the cast speed, which was made pretty much useless after the patch. Almost all of Embers powers are now near instant cast already now, so cast speed is not even noticeable. That is why I asked for it to be changed.

 

I have hardly felt their effect.  The cast speed increase on Accelerant makes WoF and FB faster, yes, but it's nothing groundbreaking.  Possibly the biggest boost is that because WoF's animation is sped up so much, it starts ticking damage before the timer begins, effectively giving it an extra second or so of bonus duration.  Low duration builds (aka THE BEST BUILD) have been buffed further by the changes.  There's no polish in the update, though; just that one buff.

Did you read the patch notes? The base cast time of WoF was made to be identical to Fire Blast. Near instant cast is a big deal. It allows much easier chaining of WoF. Also if you build for low duration, that is a terrible build IMO. I've tried a max damage low duration build. You basically kill any potential use of FB, and WoF having a duration of only a couple seconds isn't worth the extra damage. My build gives good everything for stats. I've got 103% duration, 160% efficiecy, 145% range, and 154% strength on my build. It can still get more duration as I level my P. Continuity, and I am using a rank 5 Blind Rage right now, which I am thinking of bumping to rank 6 (maybe even 7). My build also allows me to drop range (Stretch) for strength (Intensify), or for an Augment.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Crewell

[ShortCat]

Honestly, all the people who call Ember bad and state nonsens like:

 

OMG! Thank you so much DE. I hope this new update allows me to wreck groups above level 25

 

I have a question for all of you: Are you really playing Ember? Because it is common here that people complain on the forum, but in reality they didn't play the frame at all, if you check their profile.

In my opinion she is one of the most balanced frames in the game.

#2 + #3 and I can oneshot light units till lvl 30.

#2 + #4 and I can easily clean rooms in void till lvl 60.

Only because all the P42W frames are dominating the game right now doesn't mean we need to make Ember one of them.

She steamrolls every non-endless mission on the starchart, if that is called weak then I don't know what is wrong here.

 

Her #3 is bad and controversial that is fact, the other abilities are solid.

[Crewell]

#2 + #4 and I can easily clean rooms in void till lvl 60.

You do realize that past the initial 20m (+whatever range bonus you have) from where you cast Accelerant, enemies are just taking normal damage. Accelerant's damage bonus is only against enemies that were affected by the stun. The duration part is only an increased cast time.

 

As I mentioned above, with the new cast times it makes Accelerant's speed cast buff pretty useless. Fireball is already instant cast. Fire Blast and now World on Fire have near instant cast times. That's why I posted above to make Accelerant a straight up stun (or replace it altogether) and buff the other powers damage.

[Malikon]

Fixed that for ya.

 

Either that, or it's kind of random changes based on some prinicple or something that is more or less uninformed of the current state of gameplay.  DE doesn't play their own game and when they do, they aren't remotely savvy about it.  

Fair enough.  Thanks for the fix ;)

 

Crewell!  sup :>

[Crewell]

Crewell!  sup :>

Hey :)

[ShortCat]

You do realize that past the initial 20m (+whatever range bonus you have) from where you cast Accelerant, enemies are just taking normal damage. Accelerant's damage bonus is only against enemies that were affected by the stun. The duration part is only an increased cast time.

 

As I mentioned above, with the new cast times it makes Accelerant's speed cast buff pretty useless. Fireball is already instant cast. Fire Blast and now World on Fire have near instant cast times. That's why I posted above to make Accelerant a straight up stun (or replace it altogether) and buff the other powers damage.

And where is the problem? You jump into the mob, #2, #4, mob is dead, you jump into the next one, cast #2 again, repeat...

 

And that castspeed comes really handy if you are moving along the groups.

 

That post right now shows that you have no idea how to play her.

Edited July 4, 2015 by ShortCat

[RealPandemonium]

Where did I say a percentage to buff powers by? That's rught, I didn't. Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't even know where the hell you pulled a 500-700% from. Accelerant is only 250%. The actual number I had in mind was 50-100%. That would be up to DE to determine for balance.

Accelerant's boost is affected by power strength.  A max efficiency build nets 530% damage, while a max strength build gives 710% damage.  Buffing power base damage by 50-100% and removing the Accelerant buff would be an astronomical nerf.

 

 

The only thing that lasts for the duration is the cast speed, which was made pretty much useless after the patch. Almost all of Embers powers are now near instant cast already now, so cast speed is not even noticeable. That is why I asked for it to be changed.

 

Did you read the patch notes? The base cast time of WoF was made to be identical to Fire Blast. Near instant cast is a big deal. It allows much easier chaining of WoF.

While 1 and 2 can't benefit from increased cast speed, you can definitely feel the difference on 3 and 4.  Also, as I said, this indirectly buffed WoF because it now starts ticking damage before the timer starts running, effectively giving you an extra second of free duration.  This buffs both low and high duration builds, but especially low duration, which was already the best build for doing damage, IMO.  The added safety of a faster cast is nice but not really a vital buff since it was already safe to cast it after Accelerant anyway.

 

I've tried a max damage low duration build. You basically kill any potential use of FB, and WoF having a duration of only a couple seconds isn't worth the extra damage. My build gives good everything for stats. I've got 103% duration, 160% efficiecy, 145% range, and 154% strength on my build. It can still get more duration as I level my P. Continuity, and I am using a rank 5 Blind Rage right now, which I am thinking of bumping to rank 6 (maybe even 7). My build also allows me to drop range (Stretch) for strength (Intensify), or for an Augment.

 

My build has max efficiency and 58 more strength than yours at the cost of 4 seconds of WoF.  Also, dropping Stretch ill-advised, as that extra range is what allows 2 and 4 to shine.  Conversely, my build can drop the rank 2 Blind rage for an augment or whatever else and only lose 27% strength, and then also drop Fleeting Expertise's rank by one (since I don't need extra efficiency to reach the cap anymore) and get 10% extra duration as well.  I advise against ranking Blind Rage beyond 2; max efficiency > greater strength or duration stats.  

 

I will agree that my 12 second Fire Blast isn't very useful for stacking, but stacking Fire Blast isn't very useful, period.  I could drop BR (also lowering FE by one rank) and add Constitution, though, which would allow me to stack 3 effectively without compromising anything except the 27% strength.

[BattledOne]

What kind of synergy does Chroma have besides maintaining two buffs and deciding whether you want your ult or extra armor?  That's not even really synergy.

No frame has real synergy.

[Crewell]

Accelerant's boost is affected by power strength.  A max efficiency build nets 530% damage, while a max strength build gives 710% damage.  Buffing power base damage by 50-100% and removing the Accelerant buff would be an astronomical nerf.

 

While 1 and 2 can't benefit from increased cast speed, you can definitely feel the difference on 3 and 4.  Also, as I said, this indirectly buffed WoF because it now starts ticking damage before the timer starts running, effectively giving you an extra second of free duration.  This buffs both low and high duration builds, but especially low duration, which was already the best build for doing damage, IMO.  The added safety of a faster cast is nice but not really a vital buff since it was already safe to cast it after Accelerant anyway.

 

My build has max efficiency and 58 more strength than yours at the cost of 4 seconds of WoF.  Also, dropping Stretch ill-advised, as that extra range is what allows 2 and 4 to shine.  Conversely, my build can drop the rank 2 Blind rage for an augment or whatever else and only lose 27% strength, and then also drop Fleeting Expertise's rank by one (since I don't need extra efficiency to reach the cap anymore) and get 10% extra duration as well.  I advise against ranking Blind Rage beyond 2; max efficiency > greater strength or duration stats.  

 

I will agree that my 12 second Fire Blast isn't very useful for stacking, but stacking Fire Blast isn't very useful, period.  I could drop BR (also lowering FE by one rank) and add Constitution, though, which would allow me to stack 3 effectively without compromising anything except the 27% strength.

As for builds, we each have our preferences. The build I run does okay and for the time being I'll stick with it.

 

I just think Ember could be better. This thread almost proves my point with people saying how its great damage when you push #2 then another power. The problem being overlooked is no other frame needs a power to make its other powers good.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I'd like to see some "out-of-the-box" simple ingenious ways to make her more effective and enjoyable to play. Even though I'm relatively new to her skillset, these fixes seem like they "BANSHEE'd" her, and yes I found accelerant a bit limiting in scope and cumbersome.

The two simple ideas I had:

1. Make accelerant "ignite" for damage when enemies discharge weapons into or within Accelerant's AoE (essentially it's a gas, yes?) and PRoC fire damage for the duration. It would still do it's original job. Bonus? % chance for fire fright reaction?

2. Use the Splash/Chain Damage from Atomos for ALL her fire abilities as an effective way to passively buff her skillset.

Apologies if my experience is showing. I'm continuing to explore her and see almost a colorful Ska-punk rebellious attitude in her Prime.

Edited July 4, 2015 by (PS4)Silverback73

[oOFANGZOo]

The changes are completely irrelevant ember is still bad, but its a baby step in the right direction.

Ember isn't bad brother. You don't use her properly.

[(XBOX)LilHypezKiid]

I would like her ultimate to be a pure channel and what happens is it takes a way your weapons and instead your hands are on fire. Instead of running you float sightly above the ground. Basically then happens is when your press LMB you cause a massive explosion and with RMB you vent heat of her frame, setting nearby enemies on fire.

[RealPandemonium]

This thread almost proves my point with people saying how its great damage when you push #2 then another power. The problem being overlooked is no other frame needs a power to make its other powers good.

I would argue that other frames spam their CC.   If any other frame had Accelerant they would spam it, even if it didn't buff their damage.  Ember spams her CC which just happens to also make her powers (and potentially her guns and her allies' guns as well) do tons of bonus damage to the afflicted enemies while also applying further CC.  The blend of damage and lockdown that Ember has access to is unmatched by other frames.  

 

On a related note, would you rather have designs like Ember's Accelerant + power combos, or just give every frame a nuke on par with Saryn's Miasma?  I think it's pretty clear which frame is more fun to play.

Edited July 5, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Coatduck]

*Shamelessly plugs her own ember rework thread*

Edited July 5, 2015 by Coatduck

[Nosferagon]

I don't get what goes on in the mind of people that say that cast speed was a nice buff....... to Ember. -.-

 

Why? because after you cast accelerant you know what it affects? World on fire only. which was already given cast speed buff in the past. which was perfect as it was. why? because anyone who uses ember casts world on fire before heading into a room or casts accelerant first and then casts world on fire or fireball or fireblast in case they are already surrounded in a room.

Fireball isn't affected as its cast speed is already the fastest possible. fireblast is the same.

 

 

this may be the most irrelevant and out of place "buff" i've seen DE greenlight. It amazes me that no one at DE even considered this made no sense at all.

[Thelonious]

The Accelerant duration buff is kinda nice, you can go max efficency and still keep a decent duration.

However, you're still spamming it so much that the extra duration is going to waste in most cases.

 

And the fixed duration not scaling with levels seems nice on paper, you think that you'd be using it more at lower levels.

But the range is not fixed, so you still have a veeeeeeeery narrow range at low level.

You basically have to hug enemies to hit them at level 0 (8 meters range). Not very practical, at all

 

I forma frames a lot and enjoy leveling them the hard way (no power-leveling/leeching in a squad, just going for missions solo), and I can tell you that a lot of abilities effectiveness at lower levels is highly mitigated by a poor scaling of variables like duration, range, or strength, and that leveling frames that entirely depend on such abilities is a nightmare.

 

 

(btw accelerant is still a 2-handed ability, while the animation would suggest otherwise. For an ability you're spamming so much if only for the short stun, it sucks that it interrupts reloading and such) 

 

The casting speed buff, sure, why not. I guess that if you go for a minimum duration build, you gotta spam WoF to keep it up, so the extra casting speed is kinda necessary.

 

It doesn't change the game mechanics-related weaknesses of Ember (like fire damage sucking against armor, no matter how much you can buff it through accelerant, and the implications as to armor scaling), but it's something.

 

Finally, it seems someone at DE is playing the game and has taken on the huge task of trying to balance the game through minor, but frequent, changes: 2 frames tweaked in a row, Rhino and now Ember, who's next?

 

 

No frame has real synergy.

 

 

Loki says hi. It's no suprise that it's the only frame that hasn't been changed since closed beta.

Rhino is not bad either, synergy wise.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Thelonious