The Prime Vault Is Unnecessary, And There Are So Many Better Solutions.

[ARavenousPanda]

What is so broken about loot tables honestly?

I have gotten 95% of all prime gear I own rather easily. There are a few items that have been hard to get, but rng dictates that you will have SOME bad luck every now and then.

its more about dilation, Tower 4 keys are meant to be "end gamey" yet they drop unbuilt forma in rotation c [which is meant to be the money drop]

its just frustrating, if it was built forma, however, it suddenly becomes too good, you know? they just need to fix the value of what is dropped and when

[----Fenrir----]

It's good for the economy, for both player that play a lot as well as for DE. People will need to buy Mag P and Dakra which brings in more plat sales for DE. And long time player that have a lot of prime stuff in their inventories will make a profit as well. It's a win = win situation, so why complain?

 

Also I have 7 Mag P and Dakra P sets so sell once the prices go up after the removal. So go away with your business damaging ideas please^^

[Kaisty]

Watch the devstreams.

 

Theres your source.

To you too. Watch the devstreams.

 

 

 

They have clearly talked about everything coming back from the vault in multiple devstreams.

You're also wrong about the void. In the devstreams they have also talked about the void being completely different in the new star chart.

Was it in a devstream or another type of video where they said "year of quality" but then backtracked and told us to not "take their words seriously"? While I am sure they may have talked about it in a video or two, the fact that DE needs to remove primes from the drop table instead of removing a few crappy drops from the void table and just adding the new ones in feels less like a "supply and demand" setup and more of a "Let's see how greedy folks can really get for prime parts once we remove a few sets from the table."

 

Add to it while I know folks can trade or buy plat and then trade to other players for the prime parts they need, if they are unable to either farm for tradeable drops (E.G. really bad farming luck, horrible group runs....get's D/C'd by factors out of their control, etc.) or just can't afford the funds to buy plat, it might drive a few to just stop caring about the primes or warframe and move onto other things.

 

Let's be honest folks, while the grind in many other games does exists (some don't even try to hide it like JRPGs) this game's RNG is starting to feel like the Great Grindwall of Warframe and there are very few gaps to go through on it.

[Stoner]

I dont know about all that "prime vault" thing. We all know its not a good solution and DE knows it too... they cant be that stupid. So 1:they're doing this for money, 2: they have a plan that none of us know about or 3: they dont know what there're doing.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Stoner74

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

God not this again....honestly idk why ppl have so much trouble getting their prime stuff ...either you farm for it or you trade/buy it. I didnt spend any money and got all the prime frames and all the weapons i wanted. Farmed all of it or traded it for ther parts or sold parts and bought the ones i needed. I honestly dont see a problem in this system at all oO Sure they COULD do something different but meh w.e it doesnt affect my gameplay AT ALL. If they wanna make money that way good lord let them , id rather have em do that than have the game be shut down because of ppl demanding this and that and them not making any money to keep the servers up and running. 

 

Sheesh just enjoy the game for once will you people <.< (even though its hella boring right now i know)

God not this again.... What about new people eh? people who joins game after these removals? what you say them: "Well F*** you, its your own fault joining game so late"  Now with this mag removal, they are going to miss chance get best one handed sword melee dakra p and by extension best shotgun in game boar prime.  Sure they can still get those, if they can afford it. These removals have no reason exist.

[Shiichibukai]

God not this again.... What about new people eh? people who joins game after these removals? what you say them: "Well F*** you, its your own fault joining game so late"  Now with this mag removal, they are going to miss chance get best one handed sword melee dakra p and by extension best shotgun in game boar prime.  Sure they can still get those, if they can afford it. These removals have no reason exist.

 

 

Watch the devstreams.

 

Theres your source.

To you too. Watch the devstreams.

 

 

 

They have clearly talked about everything coming back from the vault in multiple devstreams.

You're also wrong about the void. In the devstreams they have also talked about the void being completely different in the new star chart.

^That. Or they spend a bit and buy the sets for probably 200-300 plat which is nothing btw if you just sell some parts from the new drop table. Hell I see Frost Primes everywhere even my brother has him who started after he got removed and he didnt have a problem so yea? I'd rather get rid of them for now and get some new stuff instead of doing 20,30,40,50,60 waves/minutes of tower runs and  get the same stuff over and over and over again (not saying forma's are great , talking about prime parts atm)

[Ashnal]

*snip*

You misunderstand the purpose of the Prime Vault.

 

The Prime Vault is NOT there because drop tables are 'too crowded.'

 

The Prime Vault is there because it cuts off the supply of older primes that are no longer making DE any money via Prime Access or by proxy via Plat purchased for trading.

 

By removing the supply of older primes, the price in trade rises, and newer players will only be able to acquire the older primes via trade with players who still have sets. This in turn drives platinum sales to facilitate those trades.

 

In summary, the Prime Vault exists to bolster DE's Plat sales, and thus their bottom line. And that is why almost all of these threads are pointless.

[cob_metallica]

what about T1 T2 T3 interception? to add spots for primes stuff

Edited July 5, 2015 by cob_metallica

[Hypernaut1]

You misunderstand the purpose of the Prime Vault.

 

The Prime Vault is NOT there because drop tables are 'too crowded.'

 

The Prime Vault is there because it cuts off the supply of older primes that are no longer making DE any money via Prime Access or by proxy via Plat purchased for trading.

 

By removing the supply of older primes, the price in trade rises, and newer players will only be able to acquire the older primes via trade with players who still have sets. This in turn drives platinum sales to facilitate those trades.

 

In summary, the Prime Vault exists to bolster DE's Plat sales, and thus their bottom line. And that is why almost all of these threads are pointless.

i dont think its as simple as just boosting plat sales. I doubt that its the increase is that significant anyway. Not every new player is going to drop 300p on a frame.

 

What they do get to do is make it a big deal for new players when the frames return. They lock them away simply to increase their value, not just monetary value, but value to players.

[Ashnal]

i dont think its as simple as just boosting plat sales. I doubt that its the increase is that significant anyway. Not every new player is going to drop 300p on a frame.

 

What they do get to do is make it a big deal for new players when the frames return. They lock them away simply to increase their value, not just monetary value, but value to players.

The increase is significant enough.

 

Frost sets went from selling like 20p or so to 100p-150p. That's pretty significant.The same will happen to Mag.

Also for reference, that's still cheaper than many frames in the market. Many Market frames cost upwards of 200p.

 

But yes they DO lock them away to increase their value. That was the whole point of what I said. "Value to players" and monetary value are the same exact thing. 

 

All I'm saying is that many people have pointed out that there are many spots to put the parts of they wanted to, and they aren't vaulting stuff just to have a future set of players feel good when they re-release. Driving plat sales is the most practical explanation.

[Hypernaut1]

The increase is significant enough.

 

Frost sets went from selling like 20p or so to 100p-150p. That's pretty significant.The same will happen to Mag.

Also for reference, that's still cheaper than many frames in the market. Many Market frames cost upwards of 200p.

 

But yes they DO lock them away to increase their value. That was the whole point of what I said. "Value to players" and monetary value are the same exact thing. 

 

All I'm saying is that many people have pointed out that there are many spots to put the parts of they wanted to, and they aren't vaulting stuff just to have a future set of players feel good when they re-release. Driving plat sales is the most practical explanation.

Driving plat sales (through trade) is not the most practical explanation. There are much better, more efficient and reliable ways for them to generate plat sales if that was their main focus.

 

First off, Mag is free to grind for right now. Players who havent spent money before can easily earn a mag set to sell. Why would they buy plat if they can earn it for free through trade? Also they clearly state that its not gone for good. 

 

Yes, someone has to buy plat- but at the same time many traders are sustained off of the plat made through trade. All of my plat currently is recycled plat earned off of trades. If Mag sets go for 200p, theyve practically given me an extra 1000p for free. There is no way this promotes buying plat to the point where it would be seen as a sound strategy and most practical reason. its too unpredictable. 

 

i highly doubt vaulting primes is a major factor in increased plat purchases. I doubt players are rushing to buy plat to give it to other players in large amounts. Sure it may motivate a few sales, but again- i doubt its DEs main strategy.

 

they vault primes simply for gameplay reasons. In a grindy game thats content dependent, removing items and bringing them back into rotation is practically free hype for newer players., especially since old players stop caring for Frost and Mag a while ago. it essentially  lengthens the game and artificially spotlights old content as "new" once it returns.

 

They just may not want to keep too many primes in rotation at once. As a new player, once i understood what primes were and how to get them- i practically stop putting any effort into the regular variants. or skipped them altogether. The only reason i have a fully formaed and potatoed Ash right now is because he didnt have a prime. If he did i wouldve went straight for the prime, leaving regular Ash to be MR fodder at best. Keeping primes in a tight rotation prevents a growing number of perfectly viable items from just being MR fodder. So now new players have to put work into Frost, they will have to put work into Mag. 

 

Im sure there are other nuances to their decision, but from a game creators perspective- it makes sense. and i doubt its directly about plat sales. But of course- players playing longer, grinding more content = more potential plat sales.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[----Fenrir----]

 

they vault primes simply for gameplay reasons.

 

Nonsense, Orikin Derelict loot tables seem to almost entirely filled with nothing but T1 Void keys. There is plenty of space there to clear out normal Void drop tables without having to remove stuff (prime vault).

 

So there is clearly another reason for doing it.

 

Edited July 6, 2015 by ----Fenrir----

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Driving plat sales (through trade) is not the most practical explanation. There are much better, more efficient and reliable ways for them to generate plat sales if that was their main focus.

 

First off, Mag is free to grind for right now. Players who havent spent money before can easily earn a mag set to sell. Why would they buy plat if they can earn it for free through trade? Also they clearly state that its not gone for good. 

 

Yes, someone has to buy plat- but at the same time many traders are sustained off of the plat made through trade. All of my plat currently is recycled plat earned off of trades. If Mag sets go for 200p, theyve practically given me an extra 1000p for free. There is no way this promotes buying plat to the point where it would be seen as a sound strategy and most practical reason. its too unpredictable. 

 

i highly doubt vaulting primes is a major factor in increased plat purchases. I doubt players are rushing to buy plat to give it to other players in large amounts. Sure it may motivate a few sales, but again- i doubt its DEs main strategy.

 

they vault primes simply for gameplay reasons. In a grindy game thats content dependent, removing items and bringing them back into rotation is practically free hype for newer players., especially since old players stop caring for Frost and Mag a while ago. it essentially  lengthens the game and artificially spotlights old content as "new" once it returns.

 

They just may not want to keep too many primes in rotation at once. As a new player, once i understood what primes were and how to get them- i practically stop putting any effort into the regular variants. or skipped them altogether. The only reason i have a fully formaed and potatoed Ash right now is because he didnt have a prime. If he did i wouldve went straight for the prime, leaving regular Ash to be MR fodder at best. Keeping primes in a tight rotation prevents a growing number of perfectly viable items from just being MR fodder. So now new players have to put work into Frost, they will have to put work into Mag. 

 

Im sure there are other nuances to their decision, but from a game creators perspective- it makes sense. and i doubt its directly about plat sales. But of course- players playing longer, grinding more content = more potential plat sales.

I'm sorry, but quite honestly you're jumping through hoops to explain this as something other than being for money. There's nothing wrong with DE getting money; they're a business. But the problem is they're doing it in a shady way.

As for "better ways to get money", sure, there may be some. But for all the effort of switching a few things around (almost none), they've managed to turn items once worth almost nothing into 150+ platinum items.

From a game creator's perspective, why would you want to limit the people who have access to the things you created? I don't mean limit as in gating until a player is ready--Frost Prime is limited to the people who joined early enough to get him and to those who are willing to fork over $25 worth of platinum.

Also, you seem to think that traded plat just appears. Platinum has to be bought by someone first. People wouldn't be buying platinum to get these items if they could get them otherwise.

But, as I've said before, it's okay that DE makes money. The problem is that they're willing to try to justify it in laughable ways (Devstream 50, for those claiming it never happened).

[Ashnal]

Driving plat sales (through trade) is not the most practical explanation. There are much better, more efficient and reliable ways for them to generate plat sales if that was their main focus.

 

First off, Mag is free to grind for right now. Players who havent spent money before can easily earn a mag set to sell. Why would they buy plat if they can earn it for free through trade? Also they clearly state that its not gone for good. 

 

Yes, someone has to buy plat- but at the same time many traders are sustained off of the plat made through trade. All of my plat currently is recycled plat earned off of trades. If Mag sets go for 200p, theyve practically given me an extra 1000p for free. There is no way this promotes buying plat to the point where it would be seen as a sound strategy and most practical reason. its too unpredictable. 

 

i highly doubt vaulting primes is a major factor in increased plat purchases. I doubt players are rushing to buy plat to give it to other players in large amounts. Sure it may motivate a few sales, but again- i doubt its DEs main strategy.

 

they vault primes simply for gameplay reasons. In a grindy game thats content dependent, removing items and bringing them back into rotation is practically free hype for newer players., especially since old players stop caring for Frost and Mag a while ago. it essentially  lengthens the game and artificially spotlights old content as "new" once it returns.

 

They just may not want to keep too many primes in rotation at once. As a new player, once i understood what primes were and how to get them- i practically stop putting any effort into the regular variants. or skipped them altogether. The only reason i have a fully formaed and potatoed Ash right now is because he didnt have a prime. If he did i wouldve went straight for the prime, leaving regular Ash to be MR fodder at best. Keeping primes in a tight rotation prevents a growing number of perfectly viable items from just being MR fodder. So now new players have to put work into Frost, they will have to put work into Mag. 

 

Im sure there are other nuances to their decision, but from a game creators perspective- it makes sense. and i doubt its directly about plat sales. But of course- players playing longer, grinding more content = more potential plat sales.

Let me stop you there. You say that they're giving you 1000p for free. This is a fundamental misunderstanding.

 

That 1000p is NOT FREE. Someone had to buy it. You have to think ahead to understand the economics since it's a long term money maker. DE doesn't make money off of patient veteran players. They make most of their money from new and impatient players. So 6 months from now there will be many new players. Some of them may want Mag Prime. The only way to get it is via trade. Now they can either play for a long time and eventually make that plat through trade (which also has to be bought somewhere) or they can buy plat from DE to get it from a trader.

 

By creating more rare items, DE increases the amount of platinum in circulation. Which means more money fro them whenever and whoever buys that plat and brings it into circulation. The fact that it can then change hands is completely irrelevant. Raising trade prices will all lead back to more platinum being needed to make trades, which is more money for DE, regardless of however many hands the plat changes after it is bought.

[zerogear5]

prime vault should not exist another void mission type can be used or as people have mentioned derelicts  could use a drop table update via these old primes.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Driving plat sales (through trade) is not the most practical explanation. There are much better, more efficient and reliable ways for them to generate plat sales if that was their main focus.

 

First off, Mag is free to grind for right now. Players who havent spent money before can easily earn a mag set to sell. Why would they buy plat if they can earn it for free through trade? Also they clearly state that its not gone for good. 

 

Yes, someone has to buy plat- but at the same time many traders are sustained off of the plat made through trade. All of my plat currently is recycled plat earned off of trades. If Mag sets go for 200p, theyve practically given me an extra 1000p for free. There is no way this promotes buying plat to the point where it would be seen as a sound strategy and most practical reason. its too unpredictable. 

 

i highly doubt vaulting primes is a major factor in increased plat purchases. I doubt players are rushing to buy plat to give it to other players in large amounts. Sure it may motivate a few sales, but again- i doubt its DEs main strategy.

 

they vault primes simply for gameplay reasons. In a grindy game thats content dependent, removing items and bringing them back into rotation is practically free hype for newer players., especially since old players stop caring for Frost and Mag a while ago. it essentially  lengthens the game and artificially spotlights old content as "new" once it returns.

 

They just may not want to keep too many primes in rotation at once. As a new player, once i understood what primes were and how to get them- i practically stop putting any effort into the regular variants. or skipped them altogether. The only reason i have a fully formaed and potatoed Ash right now is because he didnt have a prime. If he did i wouldve went straight for the prime, leaving regular Ash to be MR fodder at best. Keeping primes in a tight rotation prevents a growing number of perfectly viable items from just being MR fodder. So now new players have to put work into Frost, they will have to put work into Mag. 

 

Im sure there are other nuances to their decision, but from a game creators perspective- it makes sense. and i doubt its directly about plat sales. But of course- players playing longer, grinding more content = more potential plat sales.

they HAVE NOT given you 1000p for free, it doesnt matter from how many hands this said plat went through SOMEONE HAD BOUGHT IT. This plats are never gained free, those have always being bought by someone. This part seems to be were you have lost yourself in fairytale land.

 

As you assume everything is free, even plat throught trade, but truth is it not free. Someone had to pay for it, this plat does not just appear from fairies. And choices like this makes plat sales rise, will it be by person who do not feel gamble and just buy plat in order to get stuff from someone else or new kid on town who hasnt even provided chance to get these via wasting their life with dice gods. Moves like prime vault greatly rises prices of items, something that previously just were 20p is all the sudden 200p and they knew that. Just say removal reason is dilluted drop tables and promise those comeback at X time to keep your loyal dogs still loyal.

[Invalid_Infinity]

I'm sorry, but quite honestly you're jumping through hoops to explain this as something other than being for money. There's nothing wrong with DE getting money; they're a business. But the problem is they're doing it in a shady way.

As for "better ways to get money", sure, there may be some. But for all the effort of switching a few things around (almost none), they've managed to turn items once worth almost nothing into 150+ platinum items.

From a game creator's perspective, why would you want to limit the people who have access to the things you created? I don't mean limit as in gating until a player is ready--Frost Prime is limited to the people who joined early enough to get him and to those who are willing to fork over $25 worth of platinum.

Also, you seem to think that traded plat just appears. Platinum has to be bought by someone first. People wouldn't be buying platinum to get these items if they could get them otherwise.

But, as I've said before, it's okay that DE makes money. The problem is that they're willing to try to justify it in laughable ways (Devstream 50, for those claiming it never happened).

Exactly. 

 

I find it laughable when people defend DE on this.

 

Seriously people look at the facts these guys have given you. Fanboying and ignoring the facts is what will kill this game's community. I have SEEN it kill others. Wake up and smell the goddamned roses. 

[GreyEnneract]

Anyone with a brain knows it's for marketing reasons and not drop table dilution.

Fixing dilution would just require the removal of orokin cells, keys, credit caches, etc from the tables.

Not to mention that T1-T3 Interception still don't even exist for some reason.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Exactly. 

 

I find it laughable when people defend DE on this.

 

Seriously people look at the facts these guys have given you. Fanboying and ignoring the facts is what will kill this game's community. I have SEEN it kill others. Wake up and smell the goddamned roses. 

In more serious words, you can be loyal, just dont be blind.

[Invalid_Infinity]

In more serious words, you can be loyal, just dont be blind.

Except I was being serious. :C

 

But yes.

[Kaotyke]

Didnt they say that all Prime Vault items will come back in U17?

[Invalid_Infinity]

Didnt they say that all Prime Vault items will come back in U17?

I watched the devstreams and I never heard them say that.

 

Of course I might have missed it but I have not heard it straight from the source.

[MechNexus]

I watched the devstreams and I never heard them say that.

 

Of course I might have missed it but I have not heard it straight from the source.

One can infer it will happen, due to Starchart 2.0 happening.

 

Which brings me onto the next point:

Starchart 2.0 will likely bring something to the table that sorts this out. Resolve the Calamity that is your Mammaries for now, wait until Starchart 2.0 before you get on the complain train.

[Ashnal]

Exactly. 

 

I find it laughable when people defend DE on this.

 

Seriously people look at the facts these guys have given you. Fanboying and ignoring the facts is what will kill this game's community. I have SEEN it kill others. Wake up and smell the goddamned roses. 

To be honest, I have no problem with the Prime Vault even if it is motivated by profit. The more money DE makes, the more developers they can pay to make the game even better and develop more content. I just think people are blind to the profit motivation and try to spin it as DE just being incompetent.

[Invalid_Infinity]

To be honest, I have no problem with the Prime Vault even if it is motivated by profit. The more money DE makes, the more developers they can pay to make the game even better and develop more content. I just think people are blind to the profit motivation and try to spin it as DE just being incompetent.

I am of the mind that DE is incompetent and greedy. I understand that they need to make money but it being at the expense of the gameplay is just horrid. Especially when they try to blame the players for the problems with the game.