Rhino Has No Cc... Wait.. Why?

[Gahrzerkire]

Ohkay there is one reason rhino has no CC. "Ability In Use" on his fourth. Get rid of this and suddenly.. rhino is endgame, and way more viable as he will have great crowd control. Suddenly he isn't all about power strength.

Please remove the Ability In Use on rhinos fourth. It is annoying and unneccesary. Or you could put it on excal for his radial blind, and loki for radial disarm. His fourth is an amazing power being hindered by this painful mechanic please remove. :)

[(PSN)iBoiz]

Yeah, making it recastable would be awesome. Having min duration, max range is really good on him with new changes but by doing so you sacrifice Roar.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Before the recent change, Rhino's 8 second animation, I found, was a perfect amount of CC.

It needed nothing more.

However, Rhino's recent changes made this amount become affected by Duration, as well as massively buffing Roar, a great Utility ability. So, now, in the sake of Rhino Charge, and Roar, you are encouraged to mod for Duration, and, when you do, are greeted with a less effective Stomp, and an even less effective Iron Skin for your trouble.

Or, on the other hand, you mod for strength, and duration suffers. It is still hard to hit that 8 second sweet spot with Stomp.

This most recent change, and that change alone, hurt Rhino Stomp as a CC more than the ability in use timer.

Of course, I have yet to play with it, and this is all just an educated assumption, but that is what I see.

A Warframe should support all 4 abilities in a potential build, though, instead, it's split down the middle of modding for 2 or the other 2.

If you attempt to mod for both sets of two, you are no greeted with underwhelming improvements to these abilities, and you are left with absolutely no space to put in an augment.

While the recent changes did buff Rhino nicely, they also ruined some synergous aspect with modding.

[RexRgisIocus]

Chaos isn't recastable and Nyx is end-game viable...Loki's disarm, Nova's MPrime and Excal's Blind are just way too good. They pretty much turn off gameplay. Excal though at least has LoS checks.

[zavienh5]

Not so sure about this.

[Evers]

Before the recent change, Rhino's 8 second animation, I found, was a perfect amount of CC.

It needed nothing more.

However, Rhino's recent changes made this amount become affected by Duration, as well as massively buffing Roar, a great Utility ability. So, now, in the sake of Rhino Charge, and Roar, you are encouraged to mod for Duration, and, when you do, are greeted with a less effective Stomp, and an even less effective Iron Skin for your trouble.

Or, on the other hand, you mod for strength, and duration suffers. It is still hard to hit that 8 second sweet spot with Stomp.

This most recent change, and that change alone, hurt Rhino Stomp as a CC more than the ability in use timer.

Of course, I have yet to play with it, and this is all just an educated assumption, but that is what I see.

A Warframe should support all 4 abilities in a potential build, though, instead, it's split down the middle of modding for 2 or the other 2.

If you attempt to mod for both sets of two, you are no greeted with underwhelming improvements to these abilities, and you are left with absolutely no space to put in an augment.

While the recent changes did buff Rhino nicely, they also ruined some synergous aspect with modding.

 

 

Well thats not only the case with Rhino, there are several frames out there where you have to decide for what abitlies you want to mod since modding the one will hurt the other.

[Regenerating_Degenerate]

They Secretly nerfed Rhino...

[RexRgisIocus]

Before the recent change, Rhino's 8 second animation, I found, was a perfect amount of CC.

It needed nothing more.

However, Rhino's recent changes made this amount become affected by Duration, as well as massively buffing Roar, a great Utility ability. So, now, in the sake of Rhino Charge, and Roar, you are encouraged to mod for Duration, and, when you do, are greeted with a less effective Stomp, and an even less effective Iron Skin for your trouble.

Or, on the other hand, you mod for strength, and duration suffers. It is still hard to hit that 8 second sweet spot with Stomp.

This most recent change, and that change alone, hurt Rhino Stomp as a CC more than the ability in use timer.

Of course, I have yet to play with it, and this is all just an educated assumption, but that is what I see.

A Warframe should support all 4 abilities in a potential build, though, instead, it's split down the middle of modding for 2 or the other 2.

If you attempt to mod for both sets of two, you are no greeted with underwhelming improvements to these abilities, and you are left with absolutely no space to put in an augment.

While the recent changes did buff Rhino nicely, they also ruined some synergous aspect with modding.

 

You want to support all 4 abilities? Don't use corrupted mods. They have a negative side for a reason and it shouldn't be possible to simply ignore the downsides or outright benefit from them (Saryn). Corrupted mods are there for min maxing, where you sacrifice some abilities to make the others near perfect (again, like Saryn).

 

Frames shouldn't be able of ignoring the downsides which is why I prefer the frames everyone seems to find useless at higher levels like Ember, Oberon and Rhino because they depend on every single stat for the balanced builds.

 

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

Ohkay there is one reason rhino has no CC. "Ability In Use" on his fourth. Get rid of this and suddenly.. rhino is endgame, and way more viable as he will have great crowd control. Suddenly he isn't all about power strength.

Please remove the Ability In Use on rhinos fourth. It is annoying and unneccesary. Or you could put it on excal for his radial blind, and loki for radial disarm. His fourth is an amazing power being hindered by this painful mechanic please remove. :)

I like it how it is. Similar to chaos it's well balanced, requiring you to mess with the duration while keeping roar in mind until you've found your sweet spot. I should let it be known that I'm also in favor for adding that painful mechanic to radial blind and irradiated disarm.

[Drasiel]

Radial blind actually does have a very short ability in use period.

[(PSN)gino1313]

Ohkay there is one reason rhino has no CC. "Ability In Use" on his fourth. Get rid of this and suddenly.. rhino is endgame, and way more viable as he will have great crowd control. Suddenly he isn't all about power strength.

Please remove the Ability In Use on rhinos fourth. It is annoying and unneccesary. Or you could put it on excal for his radial blind, and loki for radial disarm. His fourth is an amazing power being hindered by this painful mechanic please remove. :)

 

Just use transient fortitude and fleeting expertise. Problem solved, plus now it does damage.

[Stormandreas]

No.

Why?

It will bring back the stomp spamming, which normal players didn't like, and it didn't make sense.
Rhino is a tank frame, not a CC frame. He's made to take a few hits, then dish out some stronger ones.

Rhino is also a VERY easy frame to aqcuire, and usually the 1st frame people get all the parts for, Where chroma takes much longer, and more effort to get, and thus is a very powerful endgame type frame.

Rhino does also have remember:
Charge - It has CC, and movement ability
Roar - Damage buffing!!!
Iron Skin - Give himself more shielding to get out of tight situations.

Stomp Spam, just like Greedy Pull (for example), does not make full use of the frame, and this is what DE are trying to stop.

[Wurdyburd]

>Rhino Charge can be modded to go ridiculously far, and now ragdolls enemies
>Iron Skin aug can be used to nuke nearby enemies
>Roar aug reduces the damage output of nearby enemies
>Stomp can be modded to go ridiculously far, unlikely that any enemies outside it's range are a problem

 

<"Rhino CC where?!?"

[osuman]

No.

Why?

It will bring back the stomp spamming, which normal players didn't like, and it didn't make sense.

Rhino is a tank frame, not a CC frame. He's made to take a few hits, then dish out some stronger ones.

Rhino is also a VERY easy frame to aqcuire, and usually the 1st frame people get all the parts for, Where chroma takes much longer, and more effort to get, and thus is a very powerful endgame type frame.

Rhino does also have remember:

Charge - It has CC, and movement ability

Roar - Damage buffing!!!

Iron Skin - Give himself more shielding to get out of tight situations.

Stomp Spam, just like Greedy Pull (for example), does not make full use of the frame, and this is what DE are trying to stop.

Easily stopped by taking off/decreasing dmg. Late game it does practically no dmg to enemies anyways but at least this way we can have both Roar and Stomp. As he is right now, Rhino nowhere a "tanky" frame unlike chroma and other tanks.

Edited July 5, 2015 by osuman

[osuman]

>Rhino Charge can be modded to go ridiculously far, and now ragdolls enemies

>Iron Skin aug can be used to nuke nearby enemies

>Roar aug reduces the damage output of nearby enemies

>Stomp can be modded to go ridiculously far, unlikely that any enemies outside it's range are a problem

 

<"Rhino CC where?!?"

1. Build for duration, sacrifice his Iron Skin and Stomp. 

2. Have you actually tried "nuking" enemies past mercury and other low level planets?

3. Wrong, it buffs allies that are within his range

4. Building for Stomp would you require you sacrifice usefulness of his Roar and Charge.

Edited July 5, 2015 by osuman

[taiiat]

i'm more concerned about the absolutely useless Rhino Loadouts being able to spam Stomp more, which makes for an incredible amount of CC [and ofcourse Damage].

but, i'm extremely content at the moment.

trying to d... compensate with maximum Power Strength makes Rhino useless. having Iron Skin on at all times is useless.

your Shields already shrug off the small hits. using Iron Skin for the same is just stupid.

use Iron Skin when you're about to get rekd. then you have it's full Health to absorb it. congratulations, you now survived the thing that would Kill your otherwise instead of dying to it.

and you also therefore don't need extreme Power Strength, because you're using Iron Skin much more intelligently. Constitution makes up for Iron Skin most of the time anyways. getting up much faster cancels most CC Effects that you do get hit by.

sure, you can constantly use Iron Skin to easymode through Missions you're looking to skip, but it's not going to work against Enemies that are actually dangerous to you.

playing this Warframe is actually entertaining currently. Charge, Stomp, and Roar are all actually worth using. Iron Skin used strategically sort've suffices.

2. Have you actually tried "nuking" enemies past mercury and other low level planets?

3. Wrong, it buffs allies that are within his range

4. Building for Stomp would you require you sacrifice usefulness of his other abilites.

Iron Shrapnel deals Puncture Damage. it's effective. especially since it costs basically nothing. a hefty amount of Radial Damage that's basically free? sure.

no, you're wrong. Roar buffs Allies, but specifically the Roar Augment Debuffs Enemies. not by enough for me to consider using the Augment whatsoever, but it does to exactly what.

Stomp applies Effects which are Level Independant, building for it doesn't ruin any of the Abilities.

Edited July 5, 2015 by taiiat

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

You want to support all 4 abilities? Don't use corrupted mods. They have a negative side for a reason and it shouldn't be possible to simply ignore the downsides or outright benefit from them (Saryn). Corrupted mods are there for min maxing, where you sacrifice some abilities to make the others near perfect (again, like Saryn).

 

Frames shouldn't be able of ignoring the downsides which is why I prefer the frames everyone seems to find useless at higher levels like Ember, Oberon and Rhino because they depend on every single stat for the balanced builds.

Except, usually, you are sacrificing a portion of the ability, not the whole ability.

Let's take a look at Loki, generally considered one of the most balanced frames, one of the reasons being the ability synergy, without factoring in augments quite yet.

Decoy- Range, Duration, Strength

Switch Teleport- Range

Invisibility- Duration

Radial Disarm- Range

You can mod comfortably for two of these and ignore the third, focusing more heavily on one, and a little less the other.

So, in this case, Decoy's Strength suffers.

Now, Banshee,

Sonic Boom- Strength, Range

Sonar- Strength, Duration, Range

Silence- Duration, Range

Sound Quake- Strength, Range

Here, you have a little bit of an option, Strength and Range or Duration and Range. Most pick Duration and Range, for CC, and Range and Strength for Sonar.

Yet, still, abilities suffer but never totally.

And then, Rhino.

Rhino Charge- Strength, Duration, Range

Iron Skin- Strength

Roar- Strength, Duration, Range

Rhino Stomp- Strength, Duration, Range

Looks fine on paper, mod for Strength and one other, right?

No.

Rhino Charge is mainly benefited from Duration, Iron Skin is Strength, Roar is all three though Duration has a bit of leeway, and Rhino Stomp is Strength and Range but suffers from Duration.

So, now, we mod for Charge, Iron Skin, and Roar, Rhino Stomp is mainly left dead in the water.

We mod for Stomp, Roar, and Iron Skin, byebye Charge.

Modding synergy is completely wonky on Rhino.

Some other frames are like this too, sure, but this topic is focusing on Rhino, and why he fails with CC, and no, I don't think it's the ability is use timer.

[osuman]

no, you're wrong. Roar buffs Allies, but specifically the Roar Augment Debuffs Enemies. not by enough for me to consider using the Augment whatsoever, but it does to exactly what.

Stomp applies Effects which are Level Independant, building for it doesn't ruin any of the Abilities.

atm Stomp is most useful when building for max range and min duration. Minimal duration hurts his Roar and Charge.

Talking about augmented mod is not a good argument given that you have to sacrifice mod slot for them. Besides, you said it yourself "not by enough for me to consider using the Augment whatsoever".

Funny how after 11.3k posts you failed to realize this.

Edited July 5, 2015 by osuman

[TheGrimCorsair]

Chaos isn't recastable and Nyx is end-game viable...Loki's disarm, Nova's MPrime and Excal's Blind are just way too good. They pretty much turn off gameplay. Excal though at least has LoS checks.

It's actually awareness checks on Excal's Radial Blind. I can pretty handily Blind folks even when I don't have LOS but have engaged them/been engaged by them.

 

Other than that, yep, that sums those up pretty handily.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Except, usually, you are sacrificing a portion of the ability, not the whole ability.

Let's take a look at Loki, generally considered one of the most balanced frames, one of the reasons being the ability synergy, without factoring in augments quite yet.

Decoy- Range, Duration, Strength

Switch Teleport- Range

Invisibility- Duration

Radial Disarm- Range

You can mod comfortably for two of these and ignore the third, focusing more heavily on one, and a little less the other.

So, in this case, Decoy's Strength suffers.

Now, Banshee,

Sonic Boom- Strength, Range

Sonar- Strength, Duration, Range

Silence- Duration, Range

Sound Quake- Strength, Range

Here, you have a little bit of an option, Strength and Range or Duration and Range. Most pick Duration and Range, for CC, and Range and Strength for Sonar.

Yet, still, abilities suffer but never totally.

And then, Rhino.

Rhino Charge- Strength, Duration, Range

Iron Skin- Strength

Roar- Strength, Duration, Range

Rhino Stomp- Strength, Duration, Range

Looks fine on paper, mod for Strength and one other, right?

No.

Rhino Charge is mainly benefited from Duration, Iron Skin is Strength, Roar is all three though Duration has a bit of leeway, and Rhino Stomp is Strength and Range but suffers from Duration.

So, now, we mod for Charge, Iron Skin, and Roar, Rhino Stomp is mainly left dead in the water.

We mod for Stomp, Roar, and Iron Skin, byebye Charge.

Modding synergy is completely wonky on Rhino.

Some other frames are like this too, sure, but this topic is focusing on Rhino, and why he fails with CC, and no, I don't think it's the ability is use timer.

I highly disagree. This assumes that no one would want lengthened duration on stomp. But it's the choice between a short recastable CC and a longer, less recastable one.

Quite honestly, the idea that having to wait 20 seconds to cast an ultimate seems so bad, suggests to me how badly designed energy is at the moment.

[taiiat]

Funny how after 11.3k posts you failed to realize this.

the post specifically stated the Roar Augment. you ignored that.

funny how you won't read the words you're responding to.

and having minimum Duration for Stomp is for being able to spam Damage, not having CC.

funny how you don't realize blah blah.

garbage attitude in, garbage attitude out.

[osuman]

the post specifically stated the Roar Augment. you ignored that.

funny how you won't read the words you're responding to.

and having minimum Duration for Stomp is for being able to spam Damage, not having CC.

funny how you don't realize blah blah.

garbage attitude in, garbage attitude out.

You are the one with garbage attitude here. I suggested to remove/reduce stomp's dmg making it cc ability on the first post. The thread itself was created to talk about Rhino's Stomp making it more CC.

Both of us were wrong here, but at least I didn't make such a big mistake claiming that building for Stomp "doesn't ruin any of the Abilities". Ignore my point about augmented Roar mod as I didn't realize he wrote "aug" there, but even then I already said "Talking about augmented mod is not a good argument given that you have to sacrifice mod slot for them".

Edited July 5, 2015 by osuman

[taiiat]

Modding synergy is completely wonky on Rhino.

i see little issue between having even difficult choices between Power Strength related Effects, Power Duration Related Effects, and Power Strength Related Effects.

no, you can't have them all if you want to min/max.

and that's the point of Corrupted Mods. you get a lot of something, but lose something else. if you don't want to lose that something else, either compensate or don't Equip the Mod.

those are good choices. better if you had a reason to consider Positive AND Negative of every Mod Effect. going either way on either does something useful. now you just choose which combination you want.

some Warframes simply have a much too easy of a time with Mods. just throw on the ones that affect your Abilities, and you're done. Vertical Progression, and nothing else? meh.

where's the Horizontal Progression. where's the choices.

rather, Warframe should be like that, so Players have actual options. which ultimately allows Warframe to not need to make you need to mapwide CC until the end of time, and allowing strategy to be used, using things when needed, which wouldn't be every single second.

[Latronico]

The only problem Rhino has with 'ability in use' is due to bugs. Sometimes the message appears also if Stomp effect is already ended (it take a bit more to be able to use the ability again, like 1 second more). 

There is no need to make it a spammable ability, it's already quite good.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Before the recent change, Rhino's 8 second animation, I found, was a perfect amount of CC.

It needed nothing more.

However, Rhino's recent changes made this amount become affected by Duration, as well as massively buffing Roar, a great Utility ability. So, now, in the sake of Rhino Charge, and Roar, you are encouraged to mod for Duration, and, when you do, are greeted with a less effective Stomp, and an even less effective Iron Skin for your trouble.

Or, on the other hand, you mod for strength, and duration suffers. It is still hard to hit that 8 second sweet spot with Stomp.

This most recent change, and that change alone, hurt Rhino Stomp as a CC more than the ability in use timer.

Of course, I have yet to play with it, and this is all just an educated assumption, but that is what I see.

A Warframe should support all 4 abilities in a potential build, though, instead, it's split down the middle of modding for 2 or the other 2.

If you attempt to mod for both sets of two, you are no greeted with underwhelming improvements to these abilities, and you are left with absolutely no space to put in an augment.

While the recent changes did buff Rhino nicely, they also ruined some synergous aspect with modding.

You're better off modding for duration.