How To Give Sniper Rifles An Advantage!

[owendawgx]

So, I was on one of AGayGuyPlays streams, and he mentioned that he thinks the only way to make Snipers viable would be to let them see through walls. Now I wasn't sure if he was being serious or not, but this gave me a bit of inspiration. What if sniper rifles had a certain amount of innate punch through, and would highlight enemies on the other side of cover, similar to how the helios sentinel does to enemies once scanned. The highlight range would be affected by how much punch through the sniper had, or it could be a special new mod. If you want an example of how this has been implemented in other games, there is a buff in Titanfall which allows you to see through walls and such and highlights enemies. This would allow snipers to get the advantage on enemies before the enemies have a chance to engage, which would help since in a fair and equal playing field, snipers almost always lose to the sheer number of enemies being throw at them at once. After implementing this mechanic, the snipers could be balanced accordingly with stat changes after the change went through, but it is definitely worth trying out imo. Thanks for reading and leave your own thoughts below if you have other ideas on Sniper balancing or theories that could improve this mechanic!

 

EDIT: Another possible idea that i came up with is possibly allowing sniper projectiles to go through nullifier bubbles? Just a random thought that may or may not be viable or balanced.

Edited July 14, 2015 by owendawgx

[Krion112]

I always thought the default punch-through on bows should be taken away, and be given to all the Snipers instead. Bows already have their own set of advantages just in use that losing the punch-through isn't much of a loss to begin with.

 

Then again, my opinion is often considered the unpopular one, so I don't know.

[Vyrn]

Every time I see this suggestion, I agree.

Punch Through, x-Ray or thermal scope, and maybe increased crit chance or higher headshot multipliers. If they had all those, snipers would be perfect (or at least really darn nice).

[owendawgx]

I always thought the default punch-through on bows should be taken away, and be given to all the Snipers instead. Bows already have their own set of advantages just in use that losing the punch-through isn't much of a loss to begin with.

 

Then again, my opinion is often considered the unpopular one, so I don't know.

Honestly I think the bows are fine, but snipers just need to be brought up to the same level. And seriously, if they did remove punch through I would just stick on a shred mod anyways. 

[owendawgx]

Every time I see this suggestion, I agree.

Punch Through, x-Ray or thermal scope, and maybe increased crit chance or higher headshot multipliers. If they had all those, snipers would be perfect (or at least really darn nice).

Completely agree. They need to have some advantage besides single-target raw damage, where even in that aspect they lose to many other weapons. I think they need a combination of some or all of those capabilities, to make them viable in a game as fast paced as Warframe.

[Krion112]

Honestly I think the bows are fine, but snipers just need to be brought up to the same level. And seriously, if they did remove punch through I would just stick on a shred mod anyways. 

I'd only say take it away from Bows to make it a Sniper thing, not that I think Bows are bad. Make Bows use Shred / Metal Auger instead of having punch-through by default, and giving all Sniper's default punch-through is one way I'd want to make Snipers stand out more.

 

But, either way, I do think you're right, Snipers do need something of this caliber to increase their effectiveness.

[owendawgx]

I'd only say take it away from Bows to make it a Sniper thing, not that I think Bows are bad. Make Bows use Shred / Metal Auger instead of having punch-through by default, and giving all Sniper's default punch-through is one way I'd want to make Snipers stand out more.

 

But, either way, I do think you're right, Snipers do need something of this caliber to increase their effectiveness.

I can definitely agree with you there. Hopefully DE can make snipers a focus after the upcoming shotgun buff. There are so many weapons in warframe but only a few see much consistent play. Diversity in a game like warframe is the most important part! It's what keeps players playing. 

[FelisImpurrator]

I agree with this, especially highlight through walls.

 

We have the only guns in the game that have those fancy high power scopes, and said scopes can't actually do anything appropriately high-tech. It makes no sense.

 

Top tier bows would still be top tier without punch through - the body pinning can still hit multiple enemies. And Shred on a bow is great synergy with the charge time, too. So removing that from bows wouldn't hurt too much either way. Snipers definitely need it, though.

[Neofaucheur]

I think bows are perfect as they are, but it's not really the subject.

 

The biggest flaw in sniper design is the fact they can't keep up with other weapons when it come to face many enemies, which happen more than often. Innate punch-through would be a easy way to give them a bit of multi-kill power but I don't really see how it would improve gameplay diversity. X-ray on the other hand seems a really good idea as it is not something that already exist except for scanner. It sound like a good thing to begin with but I don't think it would be enough to make them as useful as many other weapons.

Maybe with the help of splash damage, on headshot for example... or ricochet, a bit like throwing melee weapon. You still need a careful aim for it to work so it does not go against classical sniper gameplay, but it would be much more rewarding.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Neofaucheur

[owendawgx]

Overall I think giving them a see through ability like the scanner with punch through would increase their ability to deal damage to more than one enemy AND fit the theme of a sniper at range firing down at the enemy before they even knew what hit them. It wouldn't replace massive crowd clearing weapons but it would give them a place and a playstyle, where one player could stay back a bit and snipe a heavy before he even came around the corner, nullifying a threat for his/her team and allowing for an easier fight, as well as possibly disrupting the other troops as well with the punch through and multikill potential. All in a single shot.

[Storchenbein]

Overall I think giving them a see through ability like the scanner with punch through would increase their ability to deal damage to more than one enemy AND fit the theme of a sniper at range firing down at the enemy before they even knew what hit them. It wouldn't replace massive crowd clearing weapons but it would give them a place and a playstyle, where one player could stay back a bit and snipe a heavy before he even came around the corner, nullifying a threat for his/her team and allowing for an easier fight, as well as possibly disrupting the other troops as well with the punch through and multikill potential. All in a single shot.

 

Don't forget the ability to somehow disrupt or bypass nullifier shields else you'll shoot at something behind 3 corners and see your bullet plop off a nullifier shield.

[HAYABU5A]

innate nullifier bubble bypass on all sniper class weapons ! 

 

they cant compete for the traditional long range role in fast paced warframe so give them a new role

[owendawgx]

innate nullifier bubble bypass on all sniper class weapons ! 

 

they cant compete for the traditional long range role in fast paced warframe so give them a new role

Already added to the post, it is an interesting idea but I think it would still be better to give them some other buffs as well/instead, so that they aren't just a niche weapon for nullifiers. 

[Neofaucheur]

where one player could stay back a bit and snipe a heavy

 

It's exactly the problem in Warframe, there is nowhere to "stay back" because enemies come from everywhere in endless missions and you only rush forward in others mission type. Maybe with a carefully selected spot, but since immobility means death in this game it's really problematic.

About nullifier's bubble bypass it sound good but since nullifier as a whole need a rework (at least when it come to shrink their bubble with slow weapons) it's something that need to be thought from the nullifier's rebalance point of view rather than as a sniper buff. Anyway I can only agree with the fact that it's not enough to make sniper viable, it's just good to bring them to T3/4.

[owendawgx]

It's exactly the problem in Warframe, there is nowhere to "stay back" because enemies come from everywhere in endless missions and you only rush forward in others mission type. Maybe with a carefully selected spot, but since immobility means death in this game it's really problematic.

About nullifier's bubble bypass it sound good but since nullifier as a whole need a rework (at least when it come to shrink their bubble with slow weapons) it's something that need to be thought from the nullifier's rebalance point of view rather than as a sniper buff. Anyway I can only agree with the fact that it's not enough to make sniper viable, it's just good to bring them to T3/4.

It may not make them the best/most viable options but it would definitely be an improvement and a step in the right direction. And many game types allow for players to stay back, or out of the line of fire, just not necessarily survival or excavation. And it would open up synergy with certain frames, a frost could lay down his globe to slow any approaching threats. While helping his team from afar. Also, it would open synergistic loadouts with a great close quarters secondary for those tight spots, but the sniper to deal with everything else. Regardless, it is a step in the right direction and may be worth looking into.

[owendawgx]

Any other suggestions??

[Guest]

We need a Sniper Rifle with a bit of details of Lanka/Snipetron (really love that model, but hate Lanka's charge and projectile shots). The only snipers I find useful are Vectis (Prime) and Vulkar... (ugly though) yeah... which are like 66% of the current snipers ingame... It's quite lacking with snipers to be honest and quite boring. 

 

And yes, could be cool with sniper rifle bullets to pass through Nullifier's dome of shield, making sniper rifles more useful.

[owendawgx]

We need a Sniper Rifle with a bit of details of Lanka/Snipetron (really love that model, but hate Lanka's charge and projectile shots). The only snipers I find useful are Vectis (Prime) and Vulkar... (ugly though) yeah... which are like 66% of the current snipers ingame... It's quite lacking with snipers to be honest and quite boring. 

 

And yes, could be cool with sniper rifle bullets to pass through Nullifier's dome of shield, making sniper rifles more useful.

I think after  the sniper class as a whole is buffed/balanced, each of the Snipers needs its own "identity" to follow. Like the Vectis is the single shot high damage one, and each other needs to form its own identity, so that snipers are more than just the same thing with different models and slight tweaks on stats.

[Elite3141]

They could make headshot kills CC surrounding enemies for a little bit, kind of like a fear or something.  Snipers are feared on the battlefield-- if you see the person next to you get his head shot off from a mile away, it's going to have a psychological impact on you.

[owendawgx]

They could make headshot kills CC surrounding enemies for a little bit, kind of like a fear or something.  Snipers are feared on the battlefield-- if you see the person next to you get his head shot off from a mile away, it's going to have a psychological impact on you.

Idk, i think in a game against factions like the infested and such they wouldn't be too scared. I dont even think some of the infested have heads.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

I think after  the sniper class as a whole is buffed/balanced, each of the Snipers needs its own "identity" to follow. Like the Vectis is the single shot high damage one, and each other needs to form its own identity, so that snipers are more than just the same thing with different models and slight tweaks on stats.

I agree with that, but before each weapon gets it's own "identity", we need to give snipers as a whole their own "identity", which punch through should be the first thing to happen (the scope barely counts because it's not really a perk, but more of a given).

I wouldn't mind to see some level of "see through", but not see through everything. Just a few meters past the object. (And then use the same mechanic to Banshee's Sonar, but make it pulses that every X seconds or X% of the duration make the enemy temporarily visible through walls/objects like how the scanner does.)

[owendawgx]

I agree with that, but before each weapon gets it's own "identity", we need to give snipers as a whole their own "identity", which punch through should be the first thing to happen (the scope barely counts because it's not really a perk, but more of a given).

I wouldn't mind to see some level of "see through", but not see through everything. Just a few meters past the object. (And then use the same mechanic to Banshee's Sonar, but make it pulses that every X seconds or X% of the duration make the enemy temporarily visible through walls/objects like how the scanner does.)

This is exactly where we need to start. Definitely an option that needs to be considered. Really hope DE decides to follow through somewhere with this. 

[owendawgx]

Hopefully on the next DevStream we may hear about the status of Sniper work after update 17! Though I kinda doubt it.

[Seafood4U]

Here's some that I can think of:
1.In addition to the punch through and the X-ray scope, program the AI so that if enemies are shot/ nearly shot by a sniper rifle at about 15m+ away,  they would stop charging toward  players, prioritize seeking the nearest cover, and attempt to engage players from it. Could be difficult to program, but if done correctly can give some crowd controlling-utility to snipers, as well as presenting the choice/ challenge of sniping enemies behind cover, or simply having other teammates flank them.
2.Allow sniper rifles to negate a certain percentage of enemy armor, so their damage would fall off less severely during lategame.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

When using the Vectis Prime, I was surprised there was no Punch-Through. I know I don't speak for everyone but I am use to snipers having punch through in most FPS I play. I am not sure if the ability to see through walls would be anywhere soon as it would probably be hard to program (espcially as you would need a way to tell if this person is behind a wall or not so you don't shoot a wall and think "Oh wow, this guy must be a real bullet sponge if he can take all of these shots and not show any damage."