The Problems With De And Why Warframe Has Such A (Comparatively) Small Community

[owendawgx]

TL;DR: DE needs to make massive changes to the game state itself to allow the game to grow.

 

EDIT: Focus less on the comparison and more on the message please. That the community cannot grow with how restricted it is towards newer players. The comparison is simply there to give context to how small the Waframe community is, and that clearly there are other issues that need to be addressed, within the core game itself.

 

So. Warframe. A free-to-play Steam game about Space Ninjas. If those past few sentences didn't make you moist yet, then you probably are either impossible to help or you've actually played Warframe and understand that it isn't that simple. The Warframe community is small. Compared to other free-to-play games, that is.

 

Let's take a look: Warframe All-Time Peak of Players Online Simultaneously: 42,816

League of Legends Simultaneous Players EVERY DAY: 7.5 MILLION

 

That is a difference of about . . . 7.45 million. Now I know some of you are saying "That isn't fair!! League is the most popular multiplayer game in the world!!". But really, Warframe and League aren't that different! They are both free-to-play, multiplayer games which gather their funding through in game funding. And it isn't like Riot was some HUGE name when League came out, a few years ago, no one had ever heard of it. Kinda like Digital Extremes. But that is kinda where the similarities end. Both games gather money through in game content, the difference? League gathers it almost EXCLUSIVELY through skins for the characters. EVERYTHING ELSE can be acquired through in game action, without too much trouble! Warframe? Not so much. We not only have to buy or farm weapons/Warframes, we ALSO have to literally buy the INVENTORY space for them. And unless you would like to play Warframe with only 2 frames, you are forced to. But that's understandable right? You can buy stuff in all free to play games, that's how they get revenue! Besides, League has a competitive aspect which gains revenue as well!

 

Yes. That is true. But Warframe practically FORCES you to buy the game products, through inventory gimmicks and the INCREDIBLY long time to make and acquire materials and parts for the products you can obtain in-game. So why is Warframe so small? Yea it costs something but is that it? Well, the problem is how the game is introduced to new players. When they first start the game, THEY DON'T KNOW that all the weapons purchaseable with plat can also be obtained through other way. A new player might just see everything for plat, and immediately turn away, seeing this as "pay-to-win". Not to mention the INCREDIBLE jump in enemy levels, which is awful for new players, realizing they can't beat it unless they spend money or spend hours farming on incredibly slow lower level missions. 

 

All of these restrictions, for Forma, Warframes, Weapons, Mastery Rank restrictions, Clan restrictions, all for what cause? Profit. Which is fine! All companies want profit. BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT HAVE THAT MONEY. And those that don't will, for the most part, stop playing. Walk away. DE will not allow this game to grow due to the incredible skill and monetary gap in this game. And even after they buy weapons, to make them best outside of the star chart, they have to forma and RE-LEVEL the entire thing. Personally, I love farming for things (most of the time), it makes me feel like i'm working towards something! But . . . many people do not. And, to fix this for themselves what do they do? STOP PLAYING. We don't want that. And DE shouldn't either! Because it means less profit. DE would probably make better profit if they made the game more player friendly. I'm much more likely to spend money on something that works WITH ME instead of AGAINST, constantly trying to force purchases down my throat. 

 

What astounded me coming to Warframe from League, was the community. So accepting, welcoming, and kind (for the most part). Such is the case when you play a game that makes players COOPERATE and work together. It is beautiful. But small. So this is my plea. DE you try so hard to make players cooperate with each other . . . but why don't you focus on making the game cooperate with the players? There is a lot of change and improvement that needs to happen in Warframe. Starting with making it more acceptable and easy to slide into for new players. And less a money steal. 

 

Why should you listen to me? Maybe you shouldn't. But I have something that none of the DE staff ever will. I'm a player. This game is made for me and all the other players. And i have to work to get my voice heard, or changes implemented. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if some of the developers even play this game. Listen to the players DE. I have respect for those that make games like this, and especially Warframe . . . but maybe you should focus more on the thing that is most important in a game: fun. Not taking money or making purchases at every corner, or leveling and releveling a gun 4 times to make it usable, no. Fun. 

 

Just all my opinions of course. But I would like to remind you all of someone who knew that message, Satoru Iwata. He wanted to make games for the players, to ENJOY. To have FUN. And what do you know. He was president of one of the largest video game companies in the entire world. It isn't about your vision. Support the players, and they will support you. 

Edited July 15, 2015 by owendawgx

[Rexlars]

I'm sorry, but...

 

TL;DR

[owendawgx]

I'm sorry, but...

 

TL;DR

FINE

[Currystador]

Lol. (no pun intended)

They're completely different games, and league is a farrrrrrrr more competitive game.

Counter strike for example is competitive, and is also one of the most played games in the world.

Basically, competitive games, will imediately get you some points, but they also need to be fun ( which lol players obviously think is fun)

The only similarities is that they're both f2p.

Btw, i also hate league, but Im not afraid to state the facts.

League isnt popular just because of its f2p system.

If they made you pay for it, I would bet 100000% that it would be almost just as popular

Edited July 15, 2015 by Currystador

[Buzkyl]

Firstly, comparing Warframe to LoL is abit wierd. As the 2 are in entirely different categories and hence attract much different people.

 

But i do agree with you on how warframe presents itself to new players.

 

On first look no newplayers have no idea there are free versions of the weapons in the markets or that they can earn platinum in game. No amount of those small Tenno Councillor Bob texts on the loading screen will fix that. This is a UI issue and should be adressed upfront. New players are left too in the dark with how warframe works.

[owendawgx]

Lol. (no pun intended)

They're completely different games, and league is a farrrrrrrr more competitive game.

Counter strike for example is competitive, and is also one of the most played games in the world.

Basically, competitive games, will imediately get you some points, but they also need to be fun ( which lol players obviously think is fun)

The only similarities is that they're both f2p.

The point wasn't to compare the two games. It was to show you how massive a game can grow. And that a free-to-play game CAN achieve a massive audience from a small start. If they implement it right. 

[owendawgx]

Firstly, comparing Warframe to LoL is abit wierd. As the 2 are in entirely different categories and hence attract much different people.

 

But i do agree with you on how warframe presents itself to new players.

 

On first look no newplayers have no idea there are free versions of the weapons in the markets or that they can earn platinum in game. No amount of those small Tenno Councillor Bob texts on the loading screen will fix that. This is a UI issue and should be adressed upfront. New players are left too in the dark with how warframe works.

I almost stopped playing warframe completely before i finished the first quest. If i can only buy like 5 weapons, why would i keep playing? But a friend told me that I could get them in other ways and i kept going. But many will not be so lucky.

[Ceryk]

First of all, you can't compare the two games. Secondly, the industry thought a free to play co-op shooter was a stupid idea that would fail when they announced what they were doing, but DE succeeded and now other companies are copying that success (Warframe is still way better than the other f2p co-op shooters I've seen). The fact that the game has such a dedicated community speaks volumes. Quantity doesn't mean quality. And a big part of the reason for such a dedicated community is because they keep making the game better.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Ceryk

[Ninjamander]

I almost stopped playing warframe completely before i finished the first quest. If i can only buy like 5 weapons, why would i keep playing? But a friend told me that I could get them in other ways and i kept going. But many will not be so lucky.

 

hmm...what about making a quest that will force you to build your first weapon? That should be more then enough to show new player that they can craft weapon right?

 

I do agree that weapon slot / warframe slot need to go, even if is not that hard to make plat from trade (new player don't know that!) It can discourage new player to stay.

[(PSN)TheArrowOfGod]

One of the HUGE issues that DE refuses to address is the prices of resources in the market. You might laugh and ask why you would, but ask yourself why you're laughing. The prices are stupid and alot of new players actually fall victim to it.

[Gintoki-Zero]

comparing lol and warframe is like comparing the burnt end of cake and the filling of pie.

[Cydro_]

Just wanted to mention, 'Free to Play Steam Game' is incorrect. Yes it's on steam, but not exclusively

 

The thing I found when starting out? The lack of other players. At least for some. And the feel of loneliness and grind you get in that situation put me right off. But I persisted, which is something that not many newer players do. This is what I see that should be adressed

Edited July 15, 2015 by HydroC

[Letter13]

Warframe and League of Legends are two vastly different games. One is primarily a PvE Co-op shooter, the other a PvP MOBA. Warframe shouldn't try to be more like League of Legends; that's like saying water should try to be more like oil. 

 

Additionally, League most definitely does not gather money exclusively through cosmetics. Not at all. I can guarantee you that there are people buying gratuitous amounts of riot points (League's version of "Platinum), so much so that major department stores and retailers are stocking over-the-counter code cards for League of Legends Riot Points. And these points can be used for additional champions.

 

And like Warframe, if you want more characters without paying real money, you have to farm for them; for new players it's much more convenient and much less time consuming to drop some real money, get some premium currency, and buy a champion.

 

In both cases, the games are pay for convenience and pay for cosmetics; in Warframe you pay to bypass the time needed to farm and craft gear, and in League you pay to not have to play dozens upon dozens of matches for enough non-premium currency to buy a new champion.

 

Market wise, both games are very similar.

[Ninja-Kid]

OP is all motherhood statements.

No specifics.

Ultimately useless.

[Acos]

The feeling of isolation will be mostly addressed by the intended changes brought upon by revamping the Star Chart. Warframe's problem isn't a lack of players, but the players ability to connect with one another as they are spread out through the cosmos. Reducing the number of nodes, and removing arbitrary level rangers from planet maps will help reduce the player dilution. 
 

Beyond that, it's up to DE whether or not they want more players who aren't willing to spend any money at all or not. I don't personally see a lot of value in developing a game around people who are completely unwilling to compensate me in any way, but I'm also more of a spectator in the game development world more than I am an active contributor. 

I'm not really interested in discussing why League of Legends is popular. If I enjoyed playing LoL I would be playing it. 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Acos

[owendawgx]

Warframe and League of Legends are two vastly different games. One is primarily a PvE Co-op shooter, the other a PvP MOBA. Warframe shouldn't try to be more like League of Legends; that's like saying water should try to be more like oil. 

 

Additionally, League most definitely does not gather money exclusively through cosmetics. Not at all. I can guarantee you that there are people buying gratuitous amounts of riot points (League's version of "Platinum), so much so that major department stores and retailers are stocking over-the-counter code cards for League of Legends Riot Points. And these points can be used for additional champions.

 

And like Warframe, if you want more characters without paying real money, you have to farm for them; for new players it's much more convenient and much less time consuming to drop some real money, get some premium currency, and buy a champion.

 

In both cases, the games are pay for convenience and pay for cosmetics; in Warframe you pay to bypass the time needed to farm and craft gear, and in League you pay to not have to play dozens upon dozens of matches for enough non-premium currency to buy a new champion.

 

Market wise, both games are very similar.

I agree, but in my experience, gaining 6300 IP (the highest cost of a champion), is MASSIVELY easier than grinding out the Reactor, Trading for Plat to acquire a slot and farm each individual piece and wait 3 days. Much easier.

[Hatzeputt]

If you do a comparison at least try not to compare apples and oranges.

As already stated quite a few times, LoL and WF are two entirely different games. Just because they happen to have a f2p tag does not mean they are comparable.

 

If you want to compare WF to something you can compare it to games like Defiance, Firefall and others and compared to them WF is doing extremely well!  

[owendawgx]

OP is all motherhood statements.

No specifics.

Ultimately useless.

The intent isn't to give specifics. It is to make DE aware that the way the game is currently it cannot grow, and needs to be less harsh on new players. That is why this area is called General :^) or did you not realize where you were in the forums. 

[owendawgx]

If you do a comparison at least try not to compare apples and oranges.

As already stated quite a few times, LoL and WF are two entirely different games. Just because they happen to have a f2p tag does not mean they are comparable.

 

If you want to compare WF to something you can compare it to games like Defiance, Firefall and others and compared to them WF is doing extremely well!  

Check the new edit, the comparison is simply to prove how small our community is and how people cannot argue that Warframe is small because it is free-to-play, meaning there are other factors which i proceeded to address.  

[Rakosta_Kai]

Oy Vey...

 

I think warframe's last count was somewhere between 11 and 17 million players... I don't call that particularly small.

 

On any given day of the week and you can get quests for the majority of the junk you are looking for... Maybe not convenient but possible.

 

I've never bothered with LoL... doubt I ever will tbh. but don't see how a TPS co-op shooter hybrid would compare with a Moba or why a body would want to as it sounds like an apples and oranges argument.

 

Could the company be doing more things to get it in step with other online game venues? Yes... definitely.

 

I don't think the things you have mentioned will help though, that's only my opinion.

[blazinvire]

Warframe's community size is about right for a game like Warframe, PvE games rely heavily on the content the developers produce, PvP games only need a good gameplay system and they can endlessly recycle the same thing over and over and over again, because fighting other players is always a different challenge.  There's less demand for content because other players are providing the entertainment.

[owendawgx]

Oy Vey...

 

I think warframe's last count was somewhere between 11 and 17 million players... I don't call that particularly small.

 

On any given day of the week and you can get quests for the majority of the junk you are looking for... Maybe not convenient but possible.

 

I've never bothered with LoL... doubt I ever will tbh. but don't see how a TPS co-op shooter hybrid would compare with a Moba or why a body would want to as it sounds like an apples and oranges argument.

 

Could the company be doing more things to get it in step with other online game venues? Yes... definitely.

 

I don't think the things you have mentioned will help though, that's only my opinion.

The game does not encourage new players = less growth. That needs to be addressed.

Warframe's community size is about right for a game like Warframe, PvE games rely heavily on the content the developers produce, PvP games only need a good gameplay system and they can endlessly recycle the same thing over and over and over again, because fighting other players is always a different challenge.  There's less demand for content because other players are providing the entertainment.

like everyone else you seem to be missing the point.

[geninrising]

The difference between league and Warframe is....guaranteed rewards for your hard work. In Warframe there is no guarantee on anything due to broken weighted RNG. Hence why you will get 100 of one part and zero of the one that is more rare. If the parts had an equal reward percentage it would be far easier to grind everything. RNG my friends is how DE makes money. By PURPOSEFULLY frustrating players time after time it becomes more and more acceptable to each of us to just hit up trade chat or purchase items directly via prime access or the shop. 

 

League of Legends on the other hand gives you a metered goal and an easily handled path to obtain what you want. While everyone else here will misunderstand why the OP compared the two I understand it fully and second the sentiment if not the exact reasons you cited.

Edited July 15, 2015 by geninrising

[tmtke]

You see only a steam popularity number, but lots of other players just simply downloaded the installer from warframe.com, and play without any connection to the valve ecosystem. And there are the ps4/xb1 players. Your peak number can be as much as 5, maybe 10 times more easily. And there are problems, of course, the one you mentioned about buying the low level gear is one. And that the vets who are crying for endgame, and only playing when a bigger or more interesting update comes out. And I hate forma + levelling too. But I'm still playing after 2 years, but mostly only on weekends for a few hours.

[owendawgx]

The difference between league and Warframe is....guaranteed rewards for your hard work. In Warframe there is no guarantee on anything due to broken weighted RNG. Hence why you will get 100 of one part and zero of the one that is more rare. If the parts had an equal reward percentage it would be far easier to grind everything. RNG my friends is how DE makes money. By PURPOSEFULLY frustrating players time after time it becomes more and more acceptable to each of us to just hit up trade chat or purchase items directly via prime access or the shop. 

 

League of Legends on the other hand gives you a metered goal and an easily handled path to obtain what you want. While everyone else here will misunderstand why the OP compared the two I understand it fully and second the sentiment if not the exact reasons you cited.

I completely agree. Armored Agility? It was rumored t have a .6% drop rate. Meaning that if i was lucky i would play a little over a 100 games to get it. Which is ridiculous. Or i could get it on the first try and sell it for 600 plat someone just bought because they are desperate and frustrated and this type of manipulation is just silly.