Defense Experiments

[Messor36]

hope it realy makes in U17

[(PSN)D-onlinekilla-4D]

This is really good looking stuff right here DE_Glen,

 

Thanks for sharing,

and I hope this turns out to make defense an enjoyable experience for all concerned.

[Lady_Khaos]

I'm excited to see that XP values may get a better pass thanks to this. Even heavy Corpus enemies have much lower XP values than heavy Grineer.

[taiiat]

I talked to Scott about the Detron Crewmen and he approved tuning their damage output to be more inline with comparable units.

i know, but even so, it's still going to deal more Burst Damage than an Enemy with an Assault Rifle.

it's just the type of Weapon that it is. a lot of projectiles at once, rather than a stream of them over time.

not to mention Shotgun Enemies will 'just keep firing' like the Assault Rifle style Enemies do.

i suppose if the Damage is clamped some, and their Rate of Firing is clamped some, it may be alright.

Edited July 25, 2015 by taiiat

[SonicSonedit]

I actually think enemies could use ammo counter and should be forced to reload instead of having magical unlimited clip/mag.

[Volume]

Love the idea, except I hope we don't get, like, nothing except a dozen bombards for the last part of a wave, lol.

[Lukap99]

Oh Glen, what would we ever do without you?

[jwya]

Question: the Healers won't be coming out all at once /in a concentrated period will they? It would do very scary things to the vitality of any Infested mob

Edit: nvm saw the clarification on constrained unitts

Edited July 26, 2015 by jwya

[Chroia]

Positively thrilled for this.

(idk, I'm odd that way.)

1 question:

By wave 10 a full squad has to deal with significantly more enemies than Survival but this seems unnecessary since unlike Survival they are all concentrated in one place.

The new version we are trying uses a consistent number of enemies (like Survival); there are still the same total number of enemies of per wave but the number attacking at once has been tuned so there are more at the early waves (so it isn’t boring) and less at the higher-waves (so it still runs smoothly).

Am I reading this correctly to mean that each wave will take roughly the same amount of time as before?

(Hope the answer's 'yes or less'. (Not-ridiculously) later waves can already take 4+ minutes each.)

-----

just don't forget that Detron Crewman, Seekers, Shield Lancers, Sniper Crewman all have XP values that absolutely do not match their relative threat level to the Player and completing Missions.

^

I'd swear that Seekers and Elite Crewmen, at least, used to give ~x4 as much as a normal unit (where an eximus gives ~x10) at least as recently as the damage/Exp number font change.

[Chroia]

I talked to Scott about the Detron Crewmen and he approved tuning their damage output to be more inline with comparable units.

Let's take a moment to celebrate this. \o/

-----

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the issue with Detron crewmen is less their absolute damage and more the effect that Radiation has on Alloy armor.

I can tank them fairly comfortably with a maxed Redirection, but once those shields are gone I *splat*.

Also, re: absolute damage -

Could you possibly prompt him to look at Seekers and Shield Lancers while he's at it?

Those tear you to shreds in under a second despite (I assume) having mostly Impact damage.

[DawnFalcon]

Instead of having only the bigger enemies at the end, perhaps instead you should draw a XP curve, and have enemies spawn on that? So you keep getting smaller enemies alongside bigger ones even at the end of the wave?

 

Having only big enemies at the end of a wave works against the goal of having different enemy types work together, and works strongly in favour of certain types of weaponry (And even warframe).

[Wereservetheright]

[DE]Glen

How about that "Blind Behaviors change" you post last time. (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/454451-blind-behaviors/)

It seems that change never really implement in the game, although one of the update note said it did.

Right now in the game, when enemies are blinded, they just stand right there, never move, and never react to any sound.

heres a video how enemies behave:

 

[unknow99]

It looks good, although I'm wondering about the XP weighting. Wouldn't it be better to have heavy enemies interspersed with groups of light ones, rather than all together?

[Hueminator]

I love how DE Glen like to start side projects and improve game play in a short amount of time.

 

If you guys talk about year of quality thing, DE Glen does it best.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Hueminator

[(XBOX)Aflem1]

Glad to see all the proposed improvements tested

[The66Monkey]

T3 def all day every day. look forward to the changes.

[arsyadpower]

still no ash prime system :(

[taiiat]

I'd swear that Seekers and Elite Crewmen, at least, used to give ~x4 as much as a normal unit (where an eximus gives ~x10) at least as recently as the damage/Exp number font change.

'fraid not, have always been 50XP while Trash Units are also 50XP.

it's remotely possible they were higher at some point long ago, but i have no knowledge of this.

Those tear you to shreds in under a second despite (I assume) having mostly Impact damage.

Seekers are heavy Slash with some Puncture, must be. the Slash Status they make is insane.

granted i wouldn't notice Impact Status unless it successfully staggered me.

i don't have any anecdotal Evidence for Shield Lancers though, no Status Effects that i can recall. just an alarming amount of Damage in comparison to Elite Lancers.

-snip-

right at the end, one Enemy finished the first stage of Radial Blind and started to attack the air where you were shooting.

remember Radial Blind is a two stage Ability. hard CC, then Blind madness, attacking everywhere.

[Prany]

I talked to Scott about the Detron Crewmen and he approved tuning their damage output to be more inline with comparable units.

Nooooooooooo, don't nerf one of the very few thretening corpus enemies. Better buff rest of the faction to Detron Crewmen level.

[imaxium]

I'm excited to try this out, and I hope it makes it in with U17

[Egg_Chen]

Thx Glen, Survival is a joy these days after all your hard work, if you polish Defence as much I may start to enjoy it!

[[DE]Glen]

An excerpt from the twitch broadcast I was streaming earlier today where I was testing the new spawn scheduling. It might be hard to see through all the molecular prime but the wave starts with Chargers, Crawlers, and Volatile Runners, then you start to get Ancient Healers and Disruptors, then Boilers, Brood Mothers, and finishes off with Toxic Ancients and Eximus units:

 

[Cool3303]

I hope this gets read:

 

There are a couple of flaws with the current defense system and changing the way waves work wont help much.

The issue with defense and the reason why everyone in his right mind camps it with mesa is that it progresses trough waves of enemies.

 

Essentially if you dont have the best combo to kill enemies when they step right out of the door it is going to cost time. A LOT OF TIME

This makes defense without camping strat... the longest slog ever.It is also the only mission type aside from exterminate (which is only played with nuke frames too) that has killing enemies as main objective.

And if the number of simultaneous enemies gets toned down I fear that the time it takes to do a defense (over wave 10 anyway) is going to skyrocket.

Especially if you are trying to get wave 40.

 

I think this is a issue that needs to be addressed. 

Mobile Defense is incredibly flawed too: It takes 2,3,4 minutes for 1 or 2 consoles. This means one Mobile def can take 2 minutes or up to 8.

I just stared instantly leaving Mobile Defenses with 2 consoles.

Similar issues are in Exterminate (enemy count) and Normal levels (ice,fire is ok)

 

And on a Sidenote: Enemy Spawning in Mobile Defense and Survival nowadays is a slow trickle.

Excavation is the only mission type that really puts up pressure. Interception seems planet dependant

Edited July 26, 2015 by Cool3303

[DietEbolaCola]

Very thorough as always, Mr. Glen. Looking forward to seeing these come into play. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by DietEbolaCola

[Husla]

Could we make it so, we don't have the larger enemies all spawning from one spawn point? It happens quite a lot..