Too Much Finisher Damage On Ash

[nekrojiji]

As you all know, Bladestorm is now upgraded by Steel Charge (60% x (1~4) more damage).

 

Let's just say that Ash plays solo and has only one 60% damage buff.

 

Using only Transient Fortitude (+55% power streangth) Blade storm reaches 2000 * 2.15 = 4300 finisher damage.

 

This means that enemies, of any level, with no armor will take 4300 damage and enemies with high armor will take 8600 damage.

 

More, over that 4300 minimum damage enemies will also be dealt 4300 * 0.35 finisher damage from the slash proc.

 

So Ash with only Transient Fortitude and Steel Charge will deal instant 5805 finisher damage followed by another 6 ticks of 1505 finisher damage to 18 targets with Blade Storm only.

 

Where am I going with this rant!? 

 

Bladestorm is easy to use and deals a lot of damage (comparable to Nova on high level targets, but with far less risk)

 

Bladestorm, even if you respect the lore, should be Puncture damage, because most of the times Ash jumps on the targets and stabs them in the neck.

 

Puncture deals bonus damage to almost every type of enemy.

 

It should still proc Slash which will be finisher damage.

 

 

So if you want to 100% kill a heavy target you will use Teleport + melee and if you want to clear trash you use Bladestorm.

 

Now, the Teleport + Melee is useless when Bladestorm deals almost the same damage and is far easier to use. 

Edited July 28, 2015 by nekrojiji

[RealPandemonium]

 

This means that enemies, of any level, with no armor will take 4300 damage and enemies with high armor will take 8600 damage.

Finisher damage doesn't deal bonus damage to armored enemies; it only ignores armor.

Edited July 28, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Wawazat]

 

 

 

Finisher damage doesn't deal bonus damage to armored enemies; it only ignores armor.

 

this

[-N7-Leonhart]

As you all know, Bladestorm is now upgraded by Steel Charge (60% x (1~4) more damage).

 

Let's just say that Ash plays solo and has only one 60% damage buff.

 

Using only Transient Fortitude (+55% power streangth) Blade storm reaches 2000 * 2.15 = 4300 finisher damage.

 

This means that enemies, of any level, with no armor will take 4300 damage and enemies with high armor will take 8600 damage.

 

More, over that 4300 minimum damage enemies will also be dealt 4300 * 0.35 finisher damage from the slash proc.

 

So Ash with only Transient Fortitude and Steel Charge will deal instant 5805 finisher damage followed by another 6 ticks of 1505 finisher damage to 18 targets with Blade Storm only.

 

Where am I going with this rant!? 

 

Bladestorm is easy to use and deals a lot of damage (comparable to Nova on high level targets, but with far less risk)

 

Bladestorm, even if you respect the lore, should be Puncture damage, because most of the times Ash jumps on the targets and stabs them in the neck.

 

Puncture deals bonus damage to almost every type of enemy.

 

It should still proc Slash which will be finisher damage.

 

 

So if you want to 100% kill a heavy target you will use Teleport + melee and if you want to clear trash you use Bladestorm.

 

Now, the Teleport + Melee is useless when Bladestorm deals almost the same damage and is far easier to use. 

 

Steel Charge should be a separate multiplier from power strength. The way you calculated it is (1+0.6+0.55)*2000=4300, but it should actually be (1+ 0.55)*2000*1.6=4960 in case of Transient Fortitude+Steel Charge, since melee damage and power strength are separate multipliers. Pretty much like how Exalted Balde is affected by melee damage and power strength separately.

 

Also, you said that Blade Storm renders Teleport useless, but that is absolutely not true. In order for Blade Strom to do that massive amount of damage you need both a strength focused build and to wait for the bleed proc effect to do the damage over time. While with Teleport you can score 100k finisher damage no problem if you have a good base damage melee, without a strength build, and at much lower cost. If you are to compare that with Loki's Switch Teleport, I would say that Ash's Teleport is a lot more useful.

Edited July 28, 2015 by -BM-StormVanguard

[----Fenrir----]

Go do a 60 minutes T4 solo survival run and see if it's "Too much damage". BS damage is just about right in my opinion. Low level (level 30 or less) enemies you would one-shot even with only half the damage so it does not matter there but the damage increase is more than just welcome when it comes to endless missions and the basicallly endless enemy scaling.

 

So if you want to 100% kill a heavy target you will use Teleport + melee and if you want to clear trash you use Bladestorm.

 

That is never really an option. Because once you get to the point that you actually need the extra finisher damage to kill things, enemy damage scaling has already gone up so high that Ash is pretty much depending on the invulnerability Bladestorm provides to survive.

 

In T4 even trash mobs like those Crewman can one-shot ash past level 60.

[(PSN)SoldierElite_69]

Ash is meant for high damage at the cost of crowd control. Bladestorm may be one of the strongest "damage" ults but its time to kill is still pretty slow when it reaches high level enemies.

[Eyeless]

Do you not like scaling damage?  

 

DO YOU NOT LIKE SCALING DAMAGE ? 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Ash is meant for high damage at the cost of crowd control. Bladestorm may be one of the strongest "damage" ults but its time to kill is still pretty slow when it reaches high level enemies.

This. It has a pretty long casting time and a limited number of targets.

It deals finisher damage but for a price.

[aerosoul1337]

You know eximus has about 50% resistance against finisher damage?

Edited July 29, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[EdBazokatone]

Just leave Ash where he is, even if they buff his damage x10 he will be on the same spot as he is now, an assasin that will never be overpowered on high level content because of game's mechanichs.

 

I'm just happy to see people playing Ash again and enjoying killing stuf with him after a long time when he was one of the worst warframes. He used to be my main but then switched to more team oriented warframes as I played more end game content, I don't even use him for solo anymore.

 

The fact that they added 60% of damage, a huge amount, to his ult and nothing changed is the proof that it doesn't really matter how much damage he does, game will be the same.

[nekrojiji]

Sooo ... why do we need other frames if:

 

Ash can stay permanently invisible.

 

Ash can activate an invisibility that nullifiers can't break(with an Arcane Enhancement and his Bladestorm).

 

Ash can kill any type of enemy regardless of it's level, with one ability.

 

Ash is invulnerable while using said ability.

 

 

 

Some of you said something about team play...... how is Ash .... a team player?

 

 

 

No other frame can kill very high level enemies as fast as Ash (hell, some of them can't even kill them) and at the same time be perfectly protected. Nova is the only one that can kill them that fast, but one stray bullet and she's dead.

 

 

 

Some of you said things about scaling.... that I hate scaling.

I don't believe the people that wrote that played this game as long as I did.

 

Before Damage 2.0(the types of damage that you know and love today) there was one mod for each type of weapon that added Armor Piercing Damage (now those mods only pitifully buff the weapon's puncture damage).

 

Than, people were using those mods because of the scaling with high level enemies, giving that armor piercing damage was ignoring armor. Do you guys know why the Boltor (not prime) or Acrid or Flux Rifle and others, that are now S#&$, were good than!? It was because of the armor ignoring damage they had that was good against high level enemies.

 

Finisher damage is scaling because of it's nature.... it will never fall off. At one time, Ash's Bladestorm wasn't even affected by power streangth because of the type of damage it dealt.

 

So stop saying that buffing Bladestorm with 240% damage is called "SCALING". That is just a marketing strategy to sell Ash Prime and for that ..... Congratulations to DE! .... I really mean this.

 

I was always happy with the new things that DE implement, like I am now about Parkour 2.0, but this is just dumb, in my opinion.

[Clowee]

Zephyr thinks that Ash is a badass needy ninja with real ultimate power, who requires constant babysitting and likes to take short naps. 

 

Zephyr is happy Ash is not a butthead like Limbo, and does not hog all of the monsters like Mesa.

[fatpig84]

And what's wrong with Ash doing a crap ton of damage ?

Actually not. He doesn't do extra damage, his damage just merely ignores all form of armor, hence the 100% value.

 

Then if you got 4x CP in a team, Ash actually becomes a dead weight.

His CC is poor, his "high damage" doesn't even rival most endgame guns.

Which certainly skyrockets once armor is out of place.

His time to kill is poor for hoard mode games like defence.

 

What's so unbalanced about him really ?

Edited July 30, 2015 by fatpig84

[Tesseract7777]

And what's wrong with Ash doing a crap ton of damage ?

Actually not. He doesn't do extra damage, his damage just merely ignores all form of armor, hence the 100% value.

 

Then if you got 4x CP in a team, Ash actually becomes a dead weight.

His CC is poor, his "high damage" doesn't even rival most endgame guns.

Which certainly skyrockets once armor is out of place.

His time to kill is poor for hoard mode games like defence.

 

What's so unbalanced about him really ?

 

Yeah this. That is why I like to take Ash for random void survivals were we intend to go a long time, but I know the team isn't organized enough to have x4 CP. 

 

Ash will be able to keep killing efficiently far longer than a lot of the rest of the team usually, in these scenarios, in what I call a PUG Tower Survival (some random sets it up on recruit chat and has no requirements), he is incredibly invaluable. I have had games were the rest of the teams damage is falling off bad, but no one feels the need to leave because my Ash just keeps on killing and we can keep the tide back and keep up a steady flow of life support. At that point the team sometimes starts organically playing support to keep my Ash killing as I run from room to room clearing the mobs. 

 

I find it makes him really useful when playing with randoms who you can't trust to handle their weight. I keep my invis duration high enough even on BS build that I can revive squad easily. 

[xLordKogax]

More like 

 

"Not enough Finisher damage on Ash"

[nekrojiji]

Let's just make finisher damage for WoF, Miasma, Reckoning, Overload, Peacemaker, Prism, etc.

 

Let's make all the 4ths deal finisher damage! 

 

There! .... balance!

[stoybot]

An assassin frame is incredibly good at killing enemies... Shocker! Truth of the matter is, Ash's bladestorm damage is irrelevant. I got bored of farming Triton the regular ways and have been running it with Ash (in PUGs) over the past few days. It's been an interesting experience. If my team mates are good, runs are a breeze. I can keep killing without effort even at 3,000 cryotic - unless a whole bunch of eximus units show up. If my team can't defend the extractor very well - crowd control and globes/shields, I'm absolutely useless. I can lock down certain entries but aside from that, I'm dead weight. And the thing is, good squads don't even need an Ash to keep kiling past the 3,000 mark. They'll just bring shield disruption or a shield polarize Mag and kill everything with their weapons. If I didn't deal close to 50% of the damage for the mission and wasn't occasionally reviving downed allies, my team would rightly complain that I'm not contributing anything...

 

I can certainly see how Ash's Bladestorm can be quite powerful at the lower levels, but it's the only thing that keeps him relevant past that point.

[(XBOX)RIOTx420]

I don't see a problem , just Ash kicking &#! and doing what he was made to do ... KILL

[Nox-Lamina]

Let's just make finisher damage for WoF, Miasma, Reckoning, Overload, Peacemaker, Prism, etc.

 

Let's make all the 4ths deal finisher damage! 

 

There! .... balance!

 

Which one of those ultimates has a target limit? None you say?

[Holeypaladin]

 

 

No other frame can kill very high level enemies as fast as Ash (hell, some of them can't even kill them) and at the same time be perfectly protected.

Chroma says hi.

[Misgenesis]

I noticed that.

 

Now, i dont normally mind people using ults frequently but ive noticed Ash players are kind of A******s because they spam the damn thing like no tomorrow.

[(PSN)Kalamidy_]

In order to do do high damage with blade storm you have to completely remove your power duration. Meaning no invisibility. So he becomes Messa without the damage output and much slower killing time. I don't understand the problem.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

You know eximus has about 50% resistance against finisher damage?

Melee finishers, Bleed Damage, and ragdoll(1-hit finisher kills) seem to affect Eximus targets the same as regular targets.

-Ragdolls aren't really finisher damage, but behave that way as they can 1-shot regardless of enemy level.

-Bleed isn't really finisher damage, but more-so behaves like Finisher damage (Not buffed by Savage Silence which buffs Finisher Damage..including Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm)

-Sleight of Hand's Finisher damage (affected lockers deal 100% of enemy health as Finisher damage) like Covert Lethality where it is a 1-shot

*If Eximus resisted 50% of 100% Finisher damage equal to their health....these attacks should leave an Eximus at 50% health, instead they still act as 1-shot attacks and kill the enemy*

Although those may be exceptions...

[(PSN)Kalamidy_]

Misgensis. The main reason it is spammed is because you become invincible. You will die really fast outside of blade storm.