Parkour 2.0 Is Absolutely Breaking My Heart In Disappointment. And I'll Tell You Why.

[Onite]

For the longest time, for me personally. The one thing that drew me to warframe was the freedom of movement. Yes, i hated coptering and never used it. Yes, i actually ranked up and used rush, marathon, and Maglev all at the same time.

 

So why do i hate "parkour" 2.0?

 

Because its nothing to do with streamlined movement. Players have been barking up the parkour tree for literally years.

Revisions and suggestions have been submitted ad nauseum, useful or not.

 

And THIS is what we got?

 

1.

Let me start with the wall hop. The animation is absolutely lazy and awful and silly looking. Instead of actually moving along a surface and being able to push off of it, we are now bouncing off of it like a paddle ball.  Im guessing DE did this because they thought the constant variation in distance would "fix" players not being able to get over bumps or other geometry in the wall. Their shortcoming to this is that it makes it impossible to steer or accurately control your character because you can only change your momentum when you make contact with the surface. You are also no longer able to run across a narrow strip of wall that goes over things like doorways because you're constantly hopping up and down. You can also no longer ride along the underneath of a ledge like those found in corpus ship tilesets.You can also no longer realistically run up a wall. you just start...hopping...   This isnt parkour. This is faux acrobatics at best.

 

2.

 

Double jumping.  Why? Was this meant to replace air melee boosts? I used to use my prisma skana to single handedly run entire missions. No guns. The fact that i was able to take out door sensors and cameras simply by running up a wall, backflipping, and then slashing mid air to destroy these obstacles was fantastic. Now? The double jump doesnt give you any more vertical clearance. It just...keeps you airborne slightly longer. And heres the awful part that i regret telling you. Is that double jumping is now the new coptering. I've already figured out that if you ignore bullet jumping entirely and double jump instead to break your slide, rinse and repeat, you can travel forwards in momentum without a melee attack much faster than bullet jumping. This is mind numbingly horrible from a developer's point of view in trying to eliminate loophole exploits in mobility. And the sad thing is this exploit looks more believable and less silly than bullet jumping. (note that i still use a maxed maglev. And now we have a new utility slot. Guess what maglev counts as? Oops.)

 

3.Last but certainly not least. Is bullet jumping. Oh my god. This was the most unnecessary awful waste of potential i have seen yet in this whole "parkour" rework.

If you asked why, have a seat. Firstly lets take a look at what exactly happened before bullet jumping before the update when the same exact key combination was entered. You do a slide and then kick off the ground into a low frontflip that further amplified your momentum you got from sliding. Its like if you went down a slip n' slide and then suddenly hit ramp. It wasn't broken...worked well, could be a gateway to get you into other parkour maneuvers like wall running, wall climbing, aerial melee attacks, sliding kicks, or even that underused mechanic that made you dodge midair while firing a non zoomed in weapon. And now thats all replaced with...this really...really silly recycled (yes recycled, i see what you guys did DE, and its lazy and disappointing.) horizontal spinning animation like im some kind of 360 noscope planking cirque de soleil dolphin. The thing that bothers me the most isnt even the fact that chaining bullet jumping makes you jump so insanely high that its useless in all tilesets more than its useful, no. Not even the fact that using it completely kills youir momentum and just turns you into a ballerina to be shot at. Its that it was recycled from the glaive and other thrown weapon's aerial attacks and doesnt even corrolate to the previous animation of sliding and replaced the aforementioned pre U17 slide jump.

 

(EDIT: I have now discovered that holding sprint key while using another key separately mapped for rolling and hitting that key a milisecond after hitting slide will make you move at extreme speeds. And at some points locks up rolling.)

 

There are so many other facets of parkour in this game that are still completely untouched. Like smoother movement across terrain, like better mantling, better vaulting, better situational wall clinging and vertical mobility, being able to seamlessly use what otherwise would be obstacles in a tileset to your advantage like a rung on a ladder to get where you want to go without it slowing you down or taking a million years to climb up.

 

If you, reader, feel the same way and noticed and felt these changes as being one step forward, one step back, i implore you to help get DE's attention with this thread or other threads to help them understand where they've flawed. I dont want to sit here and complain. I want to put a magnifying glass over the problems so that DE can learn from their mistakes and make a better game.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Onite

[ThePredicament]

As much as I agree with you (wholeheartedly), it's a big update and the chances of them reversing it is pretty slim.

 

Wallclimbing is basically the infinite wallclimb glitch but uglier. Wavedashing is awful now and bullet jumping is cramping up my hand hard. Hopefully, it's still being looked at because of it's early stages.

[TheSeannachaidh]

Unfortunately they have invested so much time and money into this that even if people don't like it, I doubt it is going anywhere. I don't mind it personally. I can see where you are coming from on some things. The only thing I really don't like at all is the one thing that you didn't mention: Aim Glide... Other than that. It kind of killed directional air melee, which makes me kind of sad.

Edited August 1, 2015 by TheSeannachaidh

[Krion112]

The whole wall-hopping actually deters me from using Parkour. It's very picky when it will work and it just doesn't feel smooth or controllable. Plus, the wall-hanging by using aiming is really picky, because if you initiate it in the middle of one of the hops, you fall off, and while that is realistic, it's not really another factor I want to deal with when movement is already overly complicated.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Krion112

[Travisk]

The only complaint I share is that the wall-hop animation could use work. 

[Onite]

Unfortunately they have invested so much time and money into this that even if people don't like it, I doubt it is going anywhere. I don't mind it personally. I can see where you are coming from on some things. The only thing I really don't like at all is the one thing that you didn't mention: Aim Glide...

They've re-worked so many other facets of the game in the past. If things they had before are better, revisions to certain aspects one by one should be welcome. Improving the game is improving the game. Everyone wins. And if it costs even a small amount of budget, what else are you going to spend it on then quality?

[Sziklamester]

If they not deleted the old stuff from parkour 1.0 then they can revert or expand some movements. Basicly the air attacks what I am missing and some backjump,flipping side jump etc. Without the stamina this game turned more unrealistic because now of the infinite run and jumps. This is not really ninjalike but atleast they added some stuff which is could be useful.

 

 

This new system needs some visit but it will be good on later.

[zellers4]

I could not agree more, it was a fair attempt but find that the movement is slower and not as polished as it seemed in the sneak peaks we got.

[StinkyPygmy]

I really only agree with the bullet jump point.

I really do miss the old front flip trick and i'm not rally sure why bullet jump is necessary.

Anyway, just give it time and DE will improve things. Its only just dropped after all.

[Cerulien]

The slower overall movement speed is maybe a debuff, but I believe it's good for the meta. Who enjoys the tilesets and the skyboxes while Tipedo-rocketting ?

 

Can't wait for more polished animations for wall-things.

Edited August 1, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Removed Provocative Content

[Aekhon]

I agree on the first point about the wall hopping looking bad, but the second two don't seem accurate at all to me.  Double jump exactly does give you more vertical clearance.  I can now jump over things I couldn't before with a single jump.  As for bullet jump, I can bullet jump without breaking momentum without too much hassle.  Slide, jump, land, slide, jump again.  You only break momentum if you hit something.  I can also bullet jump repeatedly without gaining a ton of altitude.  Granted, it gets interrupted in narrow corridors where I bump into the ceiling or a wall, but in the open, there's no problem.

[FlanShark]

I used to feel like an artillery shell given human form. Firing myself through the level until I saw enemies, diving into their midst, exploding out again in a sudden frenzy of heavy ordnance and whipsnap melee strikes, before once again becoming projectile and hurtling off in search of my next fight.

 

Nothing was more glorious than covering 7 or 8 tiles of an excavation map to reach a downed teammate in the nick of time, impacting the mob that had killed him in a magnificent cessation of speed and matching onset of cathartic violence, stepping cockily out of the impact debris cloud and tangle of ragdolled bodies to revive them. 

 

Now, I am a party balloon.

 

Party balloons have terrific freedom of movement. They do not, however, hurtle. They do not lash. They do not impact. 

 

I do not want to carry on playing a party balloon.

[Onite]

I agree on the first point about the wall hopping looking bad, but the second two don't seem accurate at all to me.  Double jump exactly does give you more vertical clearance.  I can now jump over things I couldn't before with a single jump.  As for bullet jump, I can bullet jump without breaking momentum without too much hassle.  Slide, jump, land, slide, jump again.  You only break momentum if you hit something.  I can also bullet jump repeatedly without gaining a ton of altitude.  Granted, it gets interrupted in narrow corridors where I bump into the ceiling or a wall, but in the open, there's no problem.

 

You can spam it consistently sure. but you do not move very fast. Especially compared to the slide double jump slide.

[fatpig84]

Yes I prefer the old slide front flip slide combo and wall running.

But luckily my loki can sprint forever now... So...

Edited August 1, 2015 by fatpig84

[DelialFallen]

I hated the idea of it, the removal of wall running, bullet jumping.  I hated it all.

 

Then I played and had a blast.

 

 Is slower.  It isn't as efficient.  It's complex when it should be simple, and too simple when you want a hint more complexity.

 

But it's stupidly fun.

[FlanShark]

On a serious note, given the sheer amount of work, suggestions, germane comparisons to existing games' movement systems, etc the community put forward towards parkour 2 over the years, it has always been startling to me that nobody seemed to mind when the previews emerged and it became clear that not one damn word of it had been in any sense collated, listened to or absorbed.

 

We asked for momentum; we've got less.

We asked for fluidity; we've got a party balloon on a pogo stick.

We asked for speed and control; we've got no speed and controls that neither require nor reward concentration and forethought.

We asked for functional evasive abilities; we've got more "if player in animation state X, reduce enemy accuracy by Y"

We asked for polish to core mechanics; we got core mechanics ripped out and neutered.

 

But no. All critical discussion of the subject evaporated the moment preview material started emerging, washed away in a flood of hype. Capes! Be the batman! Fly anywhere! Run on ziplines!

[Onite]

 

 

From a sandbox point a view, i agree. From a balance and gameplay point of view, its extremely messy, poorly tested on every environment, and needs serious rework.

[Onite]

 

 

Yeah its like the second you would give access to console commands, everyone would be all for it. But no one realizes that the second they're given unbalanced freedoms, its a very short lived entertainment and the whole thing becomes stale quickly.

[Wakeoflove]

The problem I have with parkour 2.0 is that I was promised less carpel tunnel. It may just be the "muscle memory" thing the devs warned us to give some time to, but I can't imagine  shift->ctrl+space->shift will ever become easier to hit for me than shift+ctrl+e was. Especially since I keep returning to caps lock rather than shift. Did it involve some contortion? indeed, was getting rid of this contortion-command to fling me to my destination a fantastic idea? Yus. Does making me take my finger off of "go fast" button to press the "go faster" button (which isn't that much faster if at all especially as it likes to knock me into ceilings/door arch) and then back to faster a better trade off? I think not.

 

Also it seems the devs nerfed preview parkour 2.0 only so that they could put mods in the game to make live parkour 2.0 function more like we saw in the dev streams and add back in this new (expensive) mod slot for mobility mods (that's not actually just for mobility mods or even just for 'utility' mods as it is forma-able) which was all around a terribad idea, especially considering what everyone wanted was an augment slot... and the fact that they are selling us back one of the two slots they took from us back in the day... yeah, I digress.

 

It doesn't make any sense that we can run-hop on the wall endlessly, presumably using whatever clingy energy force we use to keep ourselves attached as we hop but can't simply cling to the wall indefinitely. That's arbitrary BS, and I'm not sure what that does for the game other than potentially prevent some copyright infringement with the spiderman franchise. A limit on how long/far you can aim glide? I imagine there are some good mechanical reasons for this... I haven't tried enough to abuse it... say if I could jump up out of it to aim glide, jump, aim glide, and thus simulate some sort of flight... but if that is not possible, then I also see no point in hindering aim glide in this fashion. Stamina should have been pulled from the game entirely *fo realz* not to barely cling to life in this form.

 

I think the change to ziplines is pretty cool so... I'm good with that.

 

So yus, I think the wall hop animation could use some refinement but doesn't actually strike me as that bad considering it could conceivably, mechanically work given the tech/magic tenno use. I think nerfing preview parkour 2.0 when it went live just to make mods for it was terrible, and I'm sad that taking my finger off of shift-sprint to press ctr-slide+space-jump back to shift feels like I did more work to cover perhaps less ground in a 1-trick-pony fashion I imagine will get old, actually already feels old, but that might just be my disappointment in how fat my frost got after this update talking... I mean he's just as fat as he was before, but he had coptering to compensate, now he does not.

[SHOKK_]

It's still better then letting jesus take the wheel when you copter or fling off geometry with the previous system.

They did internal testing with this with many rework builds. Now that it's in the player's hands feedback is what they need, not people wanting the system utterly destroyed and reverted back to on-rail garbage with horrible momentum control.

I'm not phased by the cap of speed on the Air Melee.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Shokky

[Yezzik]

It's still better then letting jesus take the wheel when you copter or fling off geometry with the previous system.

They did internal testing with this with many rework builds. Now that it's in the player's hands feedback is what they need, not people wanting the system utterly destroyed and reverted back to on-rail garbage with horrible momentum control.

I'm not phased by the cap of speed on the Air Melee.

Please. I had much more control over my movement during a copter, because I wasn't getting air unless I wanted to or it bugged out and hurled me off a cliff.

Now I'm always in the air and my only means of recovering is another move in what I hope is the right direction; I can't swing around or even slightly curve my arc to the side.

THAT is letting Jesus take the wheel, and he's been doing drugs.

[G0DLIKE_99KINGZ]

I am happy with those newmovements. I Love BulletJump, Wall hatch, Double Jump. Zip line. Wall Jump could be improved.

 

I noticed One thing that was silly to me. When i wanted to go on top an 2meter object , my warframe didn't climb but was wall jumping. this one should be reverted. Its ok to use wall jumping but for higher distance. not 2 meters.

PS: games evolves and u need to evolve with them. Its normal that is hard sometimes to accept what u had but we need to move forward with DEVs that have vision. This game is their baby. Play a month and then express your feelings after. Once u adapt and get used to it, not 1 day after release, this is so immature.

Edited August 1, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII

[Wakeoflove]

*back again* I have been enjoying the lack of stamina as we knew it, melee is way more epic and that glide jump blocking thing is pretty sweet, I do however really hate the limitation on wall cling and aim glide. It feels like it cuts out for no good reason and I'd much prefer getting full use out of it before suddenly losing my epic and falling like a rock. And I too have noticed the "hop up walls" thing being a bit wonky if say, trying to climb a lamp post, it's like one thrust sends you up over the thing, lol. I imagine that might simply take some getting used to. But yeah, Generally I like the changes, it's just the bullet jump doesn't seem to provide the horizontal movement in game that it seemed to give in the previews, and certainly doesn't go far enough/fast enough to make up for coptering. And it certainly increases the gap between inherently fast frames and inherently slow frames, frost is like a tractor slowing traffic for everyone (except i warframe they all just go around and leave you behind) and ash/nova/loki is like a little sports car that never runs out of gas.

 

I know the devs have some parkour mods deployed that I haven't yet really rng'ed my way into, and maybe the pure... bullet jump augmenty one or whatever might make bullet jump worth using on frost to make up for the copter, but it's pretty lame that it's so lack luster on its face that it needs augmenting.

 

Also, I think it might be more ergonomic if the combinations for bullet jump is simply shift-sprint+space-jump and let jump without sprint have the normal jump to it. going from sprint to crouch to sprint control for maintaining high speed run with the occasional bullet jump feels like more work than it should be, and I'm pretty sure in most applications in which one is sprinting, bullet jump is the one they'll be wanting most often. Could be wrong... but for me it seems like it would be more natural. And if it's different strokes for different folks, the option to change that in settings would be nice. As it stands, I feel like I'm "stopping" to bullet jump and that feels like it breaks the flow. And it feels like I'm using the ctrl button for bullet jump because the ctrl key in coptering got stuck in someone's mind as familiar for this type of maneuver and thus got retained... nah, cut it. CTRL will still see plenty of use for slide and crouching, it doesn't need to maintain a presence in super high speed maneuvers.

[Shiichibukai]

Idk why ppl say its slower , its not. Im faster and not stupidly rocketing through the tileset as with coptering. Prob just me who actually enjoys it and feels like its a nicer feel to the game now. Good job DE 

 

Not saying it doesnt need polishing, it does.

[TuKirito]

They say they wanted to give us more freedom in the game, they just did everything but that, if you try to run to the top of a building let say to have a nice view or to be a sniper you just can't, you start runing for the wall and then when you run 50 meters you spawn again at the floor, none of the melee mods works as they do before, the animation for the character just stop you from doing some things, combos work when they want to and not when they are suppose to work, they should focus on fixing bugs they have right now instead of creating new ones with those things they call fixes, I have been playing for some time now and the game was completelly better before the update.