Why I Think Mesa And Excalibur Should Be Nerfed And How

[Hypernaut1]

i think that Excals waves could be shortened for basic melee combos, but buff the wave range and size for special combos. I hate seeing someone crouch and just spam- i hate feeling like thats the most effective thing to do when i play Excal. If there was a strength, range, size increase at the end of melee combos, it would help vary Excals playstyle a bit more.

 

i

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

Consoles didn't even get the chance to use him and you are suggesting a nerf..Wow.

[rroorr]

Mesa? Yeah.

Excal? What is wrong with you? Where is Excal ever an issue after his Radial Javelin nerf? It's not any more of a spam than shooting guns is, you still gotta be active with it!

[Rhokdelar]

Run along nothing to see here boys/girls.  Its another one of those tread again.

[Ezariel]

Excalibur don't need Nerf. Is balanced DPS + support. Hes 4th skill is very strong, but slashes are slow, so need some time to hit a target.

 

Mesa is other story. 4th skill is really OP. It loks like a legal cheats. Mesa player don't need anything except stand still and hold LBM. 100% means this skill hit targets out of eyesight and behind obstacles.

Still Mesa have less dmg than Excal and need good defender, because sometimes crowd can down her.

 

I think after update Towers in Void are really easy, so is not problem of OP warframes.

[Astrotrap]

NREEF URVY WAFRAM DEY R OP

 

AM NAT GRINER AM TENO LIK U TREST MEE

[CY13ERPUNK]

if anything, and IMHO this is a big if

 

exalted blade should be a duration limited ability instead of the toggle/drain that it currently is, think more like ash/loki smoke/invis

 

of course ppl could still cancel it early if they wanted to and yes ppl could still just spam it constantly to stay on all the time, but regardless that would at least require some more engagement and some reactivation frames in between

 

personally IMHO the problem is much less the individual frames and their abilities and whether they are OP or not

 

but the base core issue is that warframe abilities are not properly balanced around 1/2/3/ULT even though they were originally 'priced' like that according to their energy costs

 

compounding this is that the current ingame energy system is completely out-of-whack with too much efficiency causing a huge reduction in ability energy cost those encouraging nonstop ability spam, as well as the inconsistent blue ball system that either provides too much or not enough energy depending on the mods, and finally the ES aura being just too good, by far the best-in-slot for 99% of cases, thereby ruining more mod 'choice' balance and diversity

[--Q--Gasz]

*cough* Frost OP *cough*

*cough* Frozen everything *cough*

.

.

.

.

Burn the fire please *cough* *cough*

[UseNet]

 

How should Peacemaker be nerfed ?

some enemies whithin the range of the abillity get marked (for the abillity itself, making visual mark would be necessary) and possibly speed up the animation by 1.5x or 2x while draining around 1/5 of energy pool per use.

The first part "marking enemies" will not prevent power spam, that would just mean players have to recast. Speeding up the animation would result in a DPS buff. Draining energy at one fifth of it's current rate would facilitate further power spam, not reduce it.

[Pizzarugi]

Let excalibur have this, he's already been nerfed terribly with LoS nerfs to javelin and blind.

[Ognj]

To me, I play a decent ammount of excal, not much on mesa since i find her ult boring. But overall the abilities that have constant energy drain can usualy be moded so that you can use them pretty much forever, as long as there are enemies who ocasionally drop energy orbs.

There are two things that can be done about this:

1. Short term band-aid fix : Add somehow more drain to it, or re-work the ability
 

2. Look over corrupted mods and try to balance them further, mods like Fleeting Expertise provide insane benefits even at a +60% / -60%, the efficiency proves to be the most broken mechanic in the modding system overall.

I said this multiple times and people immediately jump the bandwagon of "dont touch my mods". If you played enough of this game to know it in and out you would atleast agree that modding needs somehow to change, since it breaks the abilities so much that you can spam them 24/7.

[Velundros]

I agree with the OP in that seeing people spam the waves is annoying to some extent.  However...

 

Could lowering the range alleviate the issue?  Maybe. Was making it spammable a mistake?  I don't think so but I see the frustration.  

 

In my opinion I think the real issue is that there is a large group of players who base their experience and opinion on running Sechura and doing a 5 and out (or similar).  I'm sure there are those who feel as the OP who run Tower IV endurance mission types.  Still, and a few have said this already but the further you go toward end-game style play, the less viable this "spam" issue becomes.  

 

Frames are or should be tuned to fight high level enemies.  If that is the case, the star chart becomes less and less relevant as a point of reference.  This is not saying "x" person's opinion is invalid due to their individual experience. Everyone should have fun at any level.  In a co-op game, play-styles meet and you may not agree with another's style but it doesn't mean the game itself is broken or a frame needs a nerf.

 

Sure, things need adjustment plenty of times.  Ok, many times.  In my opinion, this is not one of those cases.  

[Jeetza]

Can someone find his profile page, take a pic, and see how much he has played these frames? Too often the OP of these nerf threads has never used the frames. It happens in a majority of nerf threads.

[CocoBunnies]

Because spamming a single ability mindlessly for an entire game is a great playstyle?

My favorite playstyle is repeating the same missions over and over to level weapons I hate instead just of one.

[Ironlixivium]

     I hate to fuel the fire, but your reason for wanting excalibur nerfed was that you didn't like seeing people slashing at stuff....

 

    But they obviously like it....

 

     It's like you're intentionally trying to spoil their fun. :/

[Ironlixivium]

Too often the OP of these nerf threads has never used the frames. It happens in a majority of nerf threads.

 

LOL that's unfortunate. I have a feeling that's true though :/

[Felblood]

Regarding Excalibur: I think the energy blades on Exalted Blade do need a nerf. Excalibur needs to have them, so EB isn't an invitation for flyers to taunt you, but right now it is too powerful. However, I do not support a drain increase. Excalibur builds are already pushed too far toward efficiency mods.

 

--but wait! Why can Excalibur afford so much Efficiency? Because his mojo is so strong that he doesn't really need anything except a way to keep pumping EEEEE. His mojo is just too strong.

 

Even if the projectile blades did half their current damage, and the close up slashes did full damage, it would still be one of the most efficient and powerful ULTs in the game.

 

Plus, that would encourage Excalibur players to change it up, and take fuller advantage of all the cool moves in the Exalted Blade Stance. That'll make them more fun to play, and to watch.

 

Regarding Mesa: Mesa is the elephant in the room of balance. Until she is fixed, every other balance concern is like taking a hot pocket out of the microwave while your house burns down. Greedy Pull abuse was only a symptom of this much larger problem.

 

In it's basic form, her ULT isn't that much more powerful than other AoE ULTs, but with the right combination of mods it can be elevated to frankly ridiculous levels. If you bring a hardcore Mesa into a tower defense map, bring a book to read during the first 40 waves. All you need to do is select continue every 5 waves, and let Mesa do the rest. This isn't even an exaggeration; I am speaking literally. I have rode along on some of these, and its only funny the first time. After that it is boring. Even after things start to ramp up, Mesa will outshine the rest of the party with her sheer power.

 

Not only does this create an unfortunate situation where the most efficient use of you void keys is to find a Mesa to mooch off of, and take a nap -- it also breaks the economy, by putting rare void loot in the hands of many players who frankly have neither the skill nor the gear to have any business in a high level void defense map. Everyone looking at the rising prices of Orokin Trader items should be concerned about how this influx of ducats is leading to greater inflation.

 

The icing on the cake of shame is, the broken build is so easy to use that Mesa's player can also get caught up on their summer reading. Using this exploit is almost as boring as standing around benefiting from it.

 

Corrupted Nullifiers have helped with this problem, but have proven inadequate. Pushing out enough of them to hamper Mesa even a little further would make life very hard on other casting focused builds, all of which I love and cherish.

 

So that leaves the question of how to fix Mesa. We can't nerf her abilities basic forms too far, since she needs to be playable for people who want to use her normally, but nerfing the mods that make her OP would remove needed elements for other frames' builds.

 

I think the best approach is to overhaul the way this ability benefits from mods. They can stay the same, and the base ability can stay the same, but range, duration and kill-power on Peacemaker need to go up more slowly, to bring her top-end output in line with other frames

[ShawnV2]

Are we going to ignore the fact that Excal takes more damage now thanks to the changes made to blocking? How bad do you people want Excal to be before you're satisfied?

[TheBrsrkr]

Are we going to ignore the fact that Excal takes more damage now thanks to the changes made to blocking? How bad do you people want Excal to be before you're satisfied?

Considering the fact that all discussion was on the waves and had nothing to do with the autoparry, I'd say a lot more.

[pkfire.]

Yes, after trying out the new "parrying" on frames and specifically exalted blade I would have to agree excal was already nerfed enough. Not taking his previous horrible nerfs into account here. As others have said, to get frontal parrying immunity you have to channel which uses up energy very quickly.

[F-Minus]

Why is this even a discussion still? 

 

Just today I was running Jupiter/IO for about 20 games, because I was formaing my Kubrow and wanted a chill, relaxed play without too much stress and I ran with my Mesa (of which I rarely use peacemaker) got duration for 2/3 build, and out of those 20 games, 10 were easily with a Mag standing on the box next to the pod, exploding all enemies the moment they have spawned, which also kills everything out of her sight. I really didn't mind it, if they want to stand and kill stuff, I'm fine with it, my Kubrow leveled from 0 to 30 at about wave 20, so I was happy with meleeing the few mobs that were left and Mag didn't kill. 

 

If you play such super low level missions expect a lot of frames to instantly blow everything up. Mag is just an example. Frames are balanced around end-game high level play, and there Mesa is mediocre at best, along with most of the frames. 

 

As for Excals running round with the blade, if they like it, why not, why does it bother you? 

 

 

also 

 

Edited August 6, 2015 by F-Minus

[Avenias]

Mesa does not need a nerf. Its using no.4 with greater then 60fps thats the issue. If thats fixed,it wont be an issue anymore

[RahuHordika]

Excalibur

 

Why should he be nerfed ?

Infinite usage of Exalted Blade - Seeing people just slash into every single direction whole mission is bs to me, I tried to ask people if its actualy fun for them and the conversation looked in short like this: "Leave me alone, I dont like guns."

God forbid one warframe can actually provide us with a viable alternative to guns right?

Also your idea to nerf it is terrible, while I will agree that some aspects like the infinite punchthrough are a bit over the top the drain per slash is very bad for the ability.

[Ironlixivium]

How bad do you people want Excal to be before you're satisfied?

 

0.0001x damage multiplier and -1000 Damage resistance should be about right.

 

(sarcasm)

 

My real thoughts:

 

Whoop-de-doo, infinite punch through waves, that have a travel speed of like 1 meter per second and deal one tenth the damage of the sword.

 

No, it's not OP.

 

MAYBE was when you have frontal immunity to damage, but that's no longer a thing, so nope.

[Kastrel717]

 

Excalibur

 

Why should he be nerfed ?

Infinite usage of Exalted Blade - Seeing people just slash into every single direction whole mission is bs to me, I tried to ask people if its actualy fun for them and the conversation looked in short like this: "Leave me alone, I dont like guns."

 

How should Exalted Blade be nerfed ?

I dont have anything against people using excalibur just for his final abillity, but I just hate seeing people mindlessly slashing everywhere and not even thinking where the enemies, and the easiest way how this could be fixed is add to the existing drain a drain per slash (lets say around 5-10 energy per slash) to also keep the feeling of "I am using the uleashed power of Excalibur now."

 

Mesa

 

Why should she be nerfed ?

I think that I dont really need to explain why Mesa should be nerfed somehow, everyone knows that situation when people use her just to stand on one spot hold down fire button and... wait until the mission finishes ?

 

How should Peacemaker be nerfed ?

In my opinion this abillity being infinite just like Exalted Blade is bs since you can just literally stand there and hold fire button and from time to time go pick up some energy orbs, so I have one idea how this abillity could be actualy remade and that is making this abillity like Ash's, some enemies whithin the range of the abillity get marked (for the abillity itself, making visual mark would be necessary) and possibly speed up the animation by 1.5x or 2x while draining around 1/5 of energy pool per use.

 

Edit

PS: I am just sharing my thoughts on how to make random matchmaking more enjoyable.

 

 

How about we dont nerf anything and just buff other stuff that need to be buffed,so they can keep up with excalibur bcz i think excalibur is in good position right now.This is not call of duty,you dont fight vs other playes.I think you people need to see that excalibur is now viable to be played bcz he scales into endgame 60+ minutes.So just buff other warframes to scale into late game simple.Also 1 more thing this game has skills (powers 1,2,3,4) which means people love to spam them if possible.