Parkour Feedback Thread 2.0

[Aure7]

This is a continuation of my massive 1,5 year old thread -->    https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119650-the-outdated-parkour-thread-it-finally-happened-voice-your-opinion-in-the-poll/

Poll on the new parkour system --> http://strawpoll.me/5082938

 

Just like before, I'll try my best to stuff this thread with feedback from myself and people in the community, it will evolve and grow. Because the biggest changes already happened, the system only needs tweaks and quality of life changes, if developers are willing to invest any more time into it...

This thread is specifically for gameplay and controls. Anything animation and aesthetics related will go to the big animation thread.

 

 

Below is a list of short term improvements and polish developers could make.

Wallrunning, new sprinting or sliding mechanics are all welcome and it will come to this thread, but in opinion polishing the current system is higher priority.

 

Landing/rolling

it's lovely that devs decided to finally give us control over our landing but currently it is done in a weird way. Basically we can now initiative roll in mid air and if you manage to time it just before landing, you'll hover-roll above ground and hard landing animation won't play.

 

● If rolling in mid air is intended (air dodging?), it should be polished a bit further in animations and mechanics. Currently rolls to sides and back play the animation meant for ground rolls while aiming. Direction and distance of these side and backward dodges are unreliable with current animations.

 

● there should be a larger window before landing where pressing roll would react. Rolling should work as you land, not just while you're midair. (maybe separate this entirely from rolling in midair which would become dashing?)

 

● [bUG?] doing a double jump just before hitting the ground slows you fall but character still does hard landing (locked in spot).

 

● With melee weapon out, rolling while blocking (same as aiming) is a bit slower/shorter to the sides and forward than it is with primaries and secondaries. In addition, there's a short period after the roll where you can't swing your weapon whereas with other weapons you can take actions immediately after the roll.

 

Ledgegrab

It's "sticky" but that's why it can be very useful to stop your movement. However with vertical wallrun gone, it's a bit harder to do now and it doesn't always detect ledges automatically when you need it.

 

● There could be a "grab" button, best option is glide/latch button (RMB). Pressing it near a ledge would initiative grab-roll-on-top animation that is currently automatic when you push against a ledge. This would allow more control and should detect ledges at an arm's reach so players could grab it in more scenarios where currently they can't.

 

Hopping, jumping on surfaces and enemies

At its core, this new system is superior to extremely limited wallruning we had before. However I think at large open areas, there's little reason to creatively use environment for movement since bulletjump does it all better in air.

 

● Wall surface detection and registration could be improved. If possible, it should favor general large shapes and smooth over smaller details like it usually works while simply running over irregular terrain. (maybe this is simply an issue of collision meshes?) It should also trigger at higher radius.

 

● Even with mentioned smoother wall detection, wall hopping should still be able to overcome small horizontal and vertical lips as often as possible for better experience.

 

● Trying to do a bulletjump off a wall doesn't seem different from just doing it in air. Jump power is same and you can't aim it with direction keys like you can with simple hops. You also can't perform a double jump after that. Would be nice if it made some difference and encouraged use of environment. 

 

● It's sometimes hard to determine whether you did a walljump or a double jump. Quite often double jump animation would play next to a wall but I could still do another jump in air before landing.

 

● Since players already use camera to aim their wall-hops, there could be diagonal jumps with a decent range of freedom for players to aim with camera.

 

Wall latch, gliding and related manouvers

 

● Window in which you have to press to latch feels a bit too late and short. Basically approaching a wall while gliding should initiate a latch to eliminate any problems. It also sometimes fails to detect surfaces which are slightly angled from ground.

 

● Doing a wall-melee attack from latched position is incredibly weak now. It needs drastic speed and momentum increases and consistency across all weapons and stances.

 

● There should be a toggle/sliders for FOV changes when gliding and latching. Basically it enters "aiming" as if you were on the ground and it sometimes makes aiming more problematic when latched on a wall because of changed FOV and aim sensitivity.

 

● There could be optional visual clues (like timer wheels) that would indicate duration left for wall-latch and glide.

 

● Player character should become transparent to prevent it from obscuring view when aiming.

 

Bulletjump 

 

● Like mentioned before, there needs to be consistency when you jump off walls with a bulletjump (or wall latch). Currently it counts as a mid-air maneuver rather than a boosted walljump which one would expect. It also isn't controlled by directional keys unlike wall hopping. (see previous points) 

 

● Reverse direction when looking down could be an option in the settings menu. Some people would prefer to not have it.

 

Ziplines

Hopefuly fixes should come naturally to this as level designes go over the old tilesets and retouch ziplines so they don't have anything blocking them and players could jump onto them at any point.

 

● I encountered some parts of ziplines where I couldn't jump onto it but I could still run on it if I came from further down the zipline.

 

General

 

● Stats like glide distance, latching duration and so on could be added to the arsenal menu.

___________________________________________________

...more is coming. Voice your feedback in the comments so that all of it could be gathered in this thread.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Aure7

[Kaotyke]

 

Wall latch and related manouvers

● You can't bulletjump from a latched position, which further proves that bulletjump seems completely undoable as boosted version of a wall jump and instead functions as if you did it in air.

 

Bulletjump 

 

● like mentioned before, needs possibility to do bulletjump of walllatch and of walls. Currently it all counts as an mid-air maneuver rather than a "wallhop". (see previous points) 

 

But I can do a Bullet Jump from a Wall latch, I have to be quick though.

[Deidaku]

Aure7

 

You can't bullet jump off a wall latch? I'm pretty sure i've done that. I'll try again but that seems odd to me

 

Aiming at a surface and bullet jumping in the opposite direction should be a thing. Because it's confusing atl least for me, not being able to jump opposite to a wall.

 

I agree that Air rolling could use some animation tweaks. it still looks odd.

 

 

Btw , is backflipping on enemies still a thing or was it scrapped?

[Lukap99]

Bulletjump

I'm pretty sure you can bullet-jump while wall-latching, but you can't bulletjump if you're near a wall.
Although I agree it should work as a boosted wall-hop while latched or wall-hopping.

 

Edges & Latches

I agree with the edge-latch, but I feel like it should just let you grab the edge, making you hold it indefinitely, while pressing forward into the ledge will make you play the climb animation, and jumping would still work.

 

EDIT: Warframes should become transparent/invisible when aiming perpendicular to the wall.

 

Dodges

Side rolling in sword alone mode seems to be broken. You're no longer able to change directions while dodging. (fix'd)

 

Air dodges could use seperate animations, but momentum gained from them should remain the same.

 

Rails

The new rail system is so good, it's arguably my favorite part of parkour 2.0. now.

 

Although I've notice that some rails, specifically in the phobos desert tilesets have wonky grab-detection.

DE should do a once over to check which rails have geometry blocking it.

 

Add more rails please.

 

nit-pick: It would be nice if we get a seperate grab animation when under the rail.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Lukap99

[StonedMakak]

Great suggestions as always, +1.

 

Don't know if this counts as mechanics or animations, but the FOV change when latching and gliding needs a toggle in the options menu. 

 

The one thing of that list I'd like to have the most, is bulletjump off the wall giving you more distance and momentum. Alternatively, a charged jump form latching would work too as a refined, easier to use and more predictable version of wallfling.

 

Also, I see no reason we can't have latching on enemies. IIRC, the early version of Parkour 2.0 had something like that i.e., jumping on mobs shoulders in sort of a grab, and then jumping off in desired direction. The cool factor alone is worth it IMO, plus the added bonus of stunning a dangerous mob, and possible stealth applications. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by tisdfogg

[Aure7]

 

Side rolling in sword alone mode seems to be broken. You're no longer able to change directions while dodging.

 

nit-pick: It would be nice if we get a seperate grab animation when under the rail.

 

I tested it and don't see anything wrong with rolling with my weapon out besides it being a bit slower. (added to the OP) What direction "change" are you talking about? I can roll everywhere to any direction I want.

 

And there is a short flip jump if you grab the zipline (rail?) when under it, I think it works just fine.

 

Also, I see no reason we can't have latching on enemies. IIRC, the early version of Parkour 2.0 had something like that i.e., jumping on mobs shoulders in sort of a grab, and then jumping off in desired direction. The cool factor alone is worth it IMO, plus the added bonus of stunning a dangerous mob, and possible stealth applications. 

 

https://youtu.be/2Jz4DCz77xI?t=24m52s

Yeah they showed it in the previews but the player wasn't "latching" on enemies, it just briefly stayed on it to prepare for the jump and then kicked off it. The difference from what we have now is that there are no custom animations. They probably saw that having those fancy animations felt too slow and sticky so now enemies just count as walls.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Aure7

[StonedMakak]

https://youtu.be/2Jz4DCz77xI?t=24m52s

Yeah they showed it in the previews but the player wasn't "latching" on enemies, it just briefly stayed on it to prepare for the jump and then kicked off it. The difference from what we have now is that there are no custom animations. They probably saw that having those fancy animations felt too slow and sticky so now enemies just count as walls.

 

Oh, the quick hop we have now is definitely faster, I meant the latch as a added function, not replacement. Still, I can live without it.  

[Lukap99]

What direction "change" are you talking about? I can roll everywhere to any direction I want.

 

I just checked, it seems they fixed it.

[SicSlaver]

Wow, nice summary of issues with Parkour 2.0. The biggest problem I have with it right now are the tiny ridges and bumps that can get in the way of your wall run, like you mentioned in your post. I hope they look into that!

 

Although, Parkour 2.0 surprised me with how well it works over the old one. I was actually really sceptical about it initially. I had thought I'd be mashing the jump key franctically.

[taiiat]

Please, please, pleaaase fix the jumping flips/rolls.

Could be possibly get some sort of timer or countdown wheel for parkour 2.0 moves like wall latch/glide?

It would also be nice if parkour 2.0 stats could be added to arsenal view // Jump Height, Glide distance, Latching duration

- i use Dodges and Air Dodges without problems? i don't understand.

- your 'timer' is the effect between you and the surface you're clinging to, or the trailing effect on your Character. once that 'black glow' effect thing dissipates, these actions have run out.

it's a HUDless way to represent these.

if you must have a HUD module somewhere, it must be optional. i don't want to have it.

showing them in Arsenal can't hurt.

Edited September 16, 2015 by taiiat

[BladeBehindTheSmile]

I think a wall hang is also needed. You should be forced to climb up the edge. You should be able to hang, and even shimmy sideways whilst hanging. It would stealth, as these (parkour) movements and stealth go hand in hand.

[Kainosh]

Option to bind [gliding] to [hold space].   

 

[ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/532888-option-to-assign-gliding-to-hold-space/ ]

[Aure7]

I think a wall hang is also needed. You should be forced to climb up the edge. You should be able to hang, and even shimmy sideways whilst hanging. It would stealth, as these (parkour) movements and stealth go hand in hand.

But isn't walllatch good enough for that? I bet shimmying sideways would be a big trouble to program because of how many different ledges there are in the game and it would be more of the "sticky" parkour that we moved away from.

 

Option to bind [gliding] to [hold space].   

 

[ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/532888-option-to-assign-gliding-to-hold-space/ ]

based on your suggestion, wouldn't that add slight delays and issues because game would need recognize if it's a glide or a jump in air? Also, I think a lot of people use gliding in very short bursts, which would cause jumps based on your suggestion. However If there was well designed control scheme for that, I would be for it.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Aure7

[Kainosh]

...

based on your suggestion, wouldn't that add slight delays and issues because game would need recognize if it's a glide or a jump in air? Also, I think a lot of people use gliding in very short bursts, which would cause jumps based on your suggestion. However If there was well designed control scheme for that, I would be for it.

 

 Depends on how good DE are at implementing such stuff.   Personally i think it will go very good with wall dash.  Since both wall dash and glide will use [hold space], players will be able to glide into wall and start dashing without releasing [space] and vice versa.

 

 Another option is to remove momentum from gliding and add controls to it. So if you keep holding W while gliding you go forward. But if you dont press anything you just drop down. Pressing C while gliding will cancel gliding. Something like that.

 

Easiest solution for me would be aim gliding on/off toggle.  I dont need it.  It actually hinders me more than helps. I would really like to turn it off.

[MattmanTheComet]

Enemy Vaulting should be easier to pull off.

 

Side note does it have a chance to inflict impact damage? or at least a knockdown?

 

It's should also have the ability to judo flip or "ride" the enemy and by ride I mean hold on as the enemy runs around like crazy

Edited September 29, 2015 by MattmanTheComet

[Gelkor]

One addition I'd add, I think running and/or grinding (slide) on ziplines could use a slight speed increase to feel better/50% more awesome.

[Aure7]

Enemy Vaulting should be easier to pull off.

 

Side note does it have a chance to inflict impact damage? or at least a knockdown?

 

It's should also have the ability to judo flip or "ride" the enemy and by ride I mean hold on as the enemy runs around like crazy

simple jumping on enemies seems to inflict some damage while doing a bulletjump will cause blast proc in a small area around you.

[sneakatone]

auto grab can kinda be annoying sometimes if done accidentally or if not done at all. there should  be a hold space to wall dash higher to wall grab if not close enough. kinda what the old system had

[Aure7]

auto grab can kinda be annoying sometimes if done accidentally or if not done at all. there should  be a hold space to wall dash higher to wall grab if not close enough. kinda what the old system had

I think hold-to-grab button would solve everything like I suggested in the OP.

[Lord-KEK]

the only thing that really bothers me about parkour 2.0 is that the bullet jump animation feels too slow when compared to the doble jump

 

yes the BJ mods help but it should be faster by deafault, i mean its called Bullet Jump for a reason right?

[Arcira]

I have mentioned some ideas before, however I'll leave it here to.  

 

If facing a wall and "aim" button is already hold down (aim-glide active) switch into wall latch. (atm you will kiss the wall until press "aim" again). Same with wall-dash. Sometimes if hold down space you will just fall down until you press space again. Seems to be a bug, because it usually works.

I just tested bullet-jump from wall and it seems to work now, with the first jump. Not sure but I could swear it doesn't, a while ago.

 

In my opinion the movement feels a little bit overloaded in regard to keybindings. Atm I use w + sprint + (crouch + jump) for faster movement.

I would prefer if bullet-jumps are triggered through the jump button while sprinting and normal jumps while not.

 

In addition you can wall-dash left, right and up but not down. I would like to see a slide down the wall if using crouch.

 

For ledgegrap we could use the "use" key just like for ziplines.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Arcira

[Lord-KEK]

 

In my opinion the movement feels a little bit overloaded in regard to keybindings. Atm I use w + sprint + (crouch + jump) for faster movement.

I would prefer if bullet-jumps are triggered through the jump button while sprinting and normal jumps while not.

 

this will render Bullet jump useless if you are stationary.  

[Arcira]

this will render Bullet jump useless if you are stationary.  

My discription migth be a little bit confusing.  You can still use shift + space for bulletjump, even if  not moving.

[Aure7]

the only thing that really bothers me about parkour 2.0 is that the bullet jump animation feels too slow when compared to the doble jump

 

yes the BJ mods help but it should be faster by deafault, i mean its called Bullet Jump for a reason right?

I think it simply looks more smooth and pleasing with the current speed. I feel there's no need to change it because If I recall correctly, it doesn't interfere with your movement so you can do different action mid-animation.

 

if you're talking about the actual acceleration when you jump, it's probably like that to make it easier to control and react.

 

I have mentioned some ideas before, however I'll leave it here to.  

 

If facing a wall and "aim" button is already hold down (aim-glide active) switch into wall latch. (atm you will kiss the wall until press "aim" again). Same with wall-dash. Sometimes if hold down space you will just fall down until you press space again. Seems to be a bug, because it usually works.

I just tested bullet-jump from wall and it seems to work now, with the first jump. Not sure but I could swear it doesn't, a while ago.

 

In my opinion the movement feels a little bit overloaded in regard to keybindings. Atm I use w + sprint + (crouch + jump) for faster movement.

I would prefer if bullet-jumps are triggered through the jump button while sprinting and normal jumps while not.

 

In addition you can wall-dash left, right and up but not down. I would like to see a slide down the wall if using crouch.

 

For ledgegrap we could use the "use" key just like for ziplines. 

 

that first suggestion is covered in my OP, totally agree.

Not sure why would we need sliding down with the current system. Sure it would look cool, but there's so much stuff already that they are not taking care of.

For ledgegrabs holding jump or glide button would be fine, "use" key is used more rarely and I think isn't in a comfortable spot for most of us.

[Lukap99]

While playing with the wall-hops I've noticed that they're still really restricting.

IMO they should be omni-directional rather than just horizontal and vertical. That way we can wall jump diagonally by aiming + movement keys.

It could also use a larger wall detection radius.