1N33DM0N3Y Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) My worst nightmare of having no Stamina is come true. Small issue people jumping & flipping a round like crasy, that is not big deal Bigger issue Boltace spam & infinite meleeing, well they dont have big range but it is still anoying can live with that. Now this is over the top of gamebreaking Jet Kittag & Galatine those endless mellee spam & melee spam with chanelling. like i said if we will have stamina back only for conclave, it will help to balance such mighty weapon like this like emty the staminabar after a combo & make some different in gameplay style. And weapons like sniperrifles would have some value again. P.S. watch also this post for more stamina ideas: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501868-about-just-gone-stamina-pvp-feedback/ Edited August 14, 2015 by 1N33DM0N3Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcane_Intelligence Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Most of the enemy team in video were beginners, no wonder if they get wrecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1N33DM0N3Y Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Most of the enemy team in video were beginners, no wonder if they get wrecked. Beginner or not i just spam the melee button like mad man and there is no consequence for this, on other matches i wrecked also high ranked player with this there is no different been beginner or veteran Edited August 14, 2015 by 1N33DM0N3Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GpyIIIeBbIy Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I fully agree with the author of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnthesteak87 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Op, you didn't try BoPrime, or Dragon Nikana, or Jat Kittag.Anyway, Conclave isn't that badly broken.Also +1 for the Stamina matter.https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501868-about-just-gone-stamina-pvp-feedback/ Edited August 14, 2015 by Burnthesteak87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Uhm... but you do realize nothing has changed since stamina was around right?? Not having stamina never prevented a person from spamming a melee attack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Poor exalibur and thier mk1 bratons... Broken! Another pvp problem 3/4 not begginers vs full stack of beginners XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celle-Reveris Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 So far the only difference I see is that your sword isn't gram, this worked pretty much exactly as it does in the video with... pretty much anything ever-- the melee imbalance was around long before U17/Parkour 2.0/the Death of Stamina, it's just gotten "a bit" more noticeable. That said, the answer is literally just standing back and hitting you with... anything but melee, amazing! That said, Jat Kittag in conclave sounds hilarious with its naturally gigantic groundslam range... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.ThanksFrost- Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Uhm... but you do realize nothing has changed since stamina was around right?? Not having stamina never prevented a person from spamming a melee attack... Wow finally, someone with common sense. like i said if we will have stamina back only for conclave, it will help to balance such mighty weapon like this like emty the staminabar after a combo & make some different in gameplay style. And weapons like sniperrifles would have some value again. No stamina is not the problem. Stamina was never the problem you can still melee spam even with the stamina bar it does not make a difference. Galatine is not even that good, it looks dumb and makes you open for a nice arrow in the ear. Jat kitag can easily be fixed by making ground pounds not affect in the air targets. Not only that the jet is so slow, that if you are 6-10 metres away from the target, you can easily run away and try to get the kill again. The only real problem here is the Nikanas, the combos can 1 hit targets with oversheilds. People who say "stamina need to be added into the game" are people who are clearly not accustomed to games where you have to hit moving targets at a high velocity. Newsflash people, warframe is not about standing still and shooting anymore, you gotta work those thighs now. Stamina will not affect snipers, I have been sniping in conclave since Europa Conclave. It will make 0 difference because of the fundamental fact that headshots are extremely difficult to get in a game like warframe, the animations are too intricate and the head moves around a lot. Stop making this a stamina problem when it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahrzerkire Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Beginner or not i just spam the melee button like mad man and there is no consequence for this, on other matches i wrecked also high ranked player with this there is no different been beginner or veteran Dude. You will never kill a veteran player like that unless its a blue moon or something. Sorry but melee spammers especially the heavy weapon ones are the easiest to combat. If you think you can kill a veteran PVPER not veteran player a veteran PVPER with melee spam good luck. Lets fight. Personally I think they are fine, they just need to lower the effects of channeling on heavy weapons. So they dont get as good of a multiplier in conclave. (in reality they wouldnt as you can think of the larger blade diffusing the same amount of energy over a larger length meaning the damage bonus would be lower). say heavy melee got a 1.1 and then fang prime which are tiny got 1.7, and single hand daggers get 1.9. meaning when you use any of them and channel they roughly Level out in terms of DPS, The people who are really threatened by melee spam are inexperienced players and it ruins there experience with the games PvP. If anything should be done to nerf the heavy weps it should involve a decrease in chaneling effects, mabye a decrease in damage, and a buff to weapon range. Seriously, no consequences? want to see the consequences? get into a round with any experienced player (or players) and your melee spam will ruin your KD. Youll end up dead at the hands of a veteran play 9/10 times if you melee spam. (Moreover get into a PvP match with people who hate melee spam like me, and then youll have people hunting you.) Edited August 14, 2015 by Olivionic_Gearhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscl Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) this is not a problem in the weapon, but in the matchmaking, just another reason why the whole community should ask DE to show their position about hosting alternatives lower the effects of channeling on heavy weapons. So they dont get as good of a multiplier in conclave. this makes complete sense, since movement is the same for all melee weapons, their balance needs another factor, with this, the reason to use heavy melees would be their freedom from channeling as a mean for good dps, and lighter weapons should be used because of having a higher dps when channeled than heavies but with bad aoe and cc. or something like that. Edited August 14, 2015 by rockscl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Man what is the deal people asking for stamina back? Melee could always swing irrespective of whether you have stamina or not. With the amount i of mobility now regarding melee is a cake. Bullet jump up, bullet glide down gunning the melee spammer. Swinging big swords is slow and WILL get you killed versus a skilled opponent if you spam it blindly. I've gunned diwn my share of these guys, going up against newer players and having an easy time is not indicative of anything. I was in annihilation yesterday versus two new players, and they managed to kill me only twice in a ten minute match. It was really easy for me using skana, seer and grakata. That doesn't mean they are op, it just demonstrates there is a skill and learning curve. The only thing stamina did before it's removal is get stolen with relentless assault making melee spam cheese balls. It's easier to dodge melee now more than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibernetika Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 all those guys learned to shoot at storm trooper academy, when I go spamming melee I eat bullets.. many, many, many a time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Noctus Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 There was a infinite block bug before stamina removal i wouldnt ask for it to be back. Melee is currently not OP or anything. The only thing thats annoying is the channeled block. Melee dmg seems not bad currently. DE have done a good job on the stamina bar and block system. Using combos instead of e spamming is actually usefull now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeyciKon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 yes, melee is op against new players, i know veterans can deal with it just fine, but new and average players(80% of conclave players) can't deal with it, it takes away the fun from them and in a few matches they give up on conclave, thats the real problem here. Uhm... but you do realize nothing has changed since stamina was around right?? Not having stamina never prevented a person from spamming a melee attack... -Stagger. -knock-down. -now combos have their damage multipliers(which means they make way more damage now). -more weapons, making it harder to control weapon balance. -energy regeneration, making it easier for channeling. -no stamina makes it easier to reach your target. -Slower recovery from knock-downs. yup, i see some changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 yes, melee is op against new players, i know veterans can deal with it just fine, but new and average players(80% of conclave players) can't deal with it, it takes away the fun from them and in a few matches they give up on conclave, thats the real problem here. -Stagger. -knock-down. -now combos have their damage multipliers(which means they make way more damage now). -more weapons, making it harder to control weapon balance. -energy regeneration, making it easier for channeling. -no stamina makes it easier to reach your target. -Slower recovery from knock-downs. yup, i see some changes. It doesn't take a veteran player to have the thought process "maybe I should run AWAY from the crazy guy with the BF sword that's wrecking me while shooting him instead of walking up to him and saying hi" after getting destroyed a couple of times. -Players could spam melee just as much before- which was the OP's complaint (that they can NOW spam it, which nothing has changed in that regard once again). Stagger isn't affected by melee spam due to us having stamina. Stagger will be there for infi-spam whether stamina is here or not. Not a valid argument. -Gonna combine your second and last point here. Knockdown. Once again players could always do this with no stamina anyways, NOTHING has changed in that respect, as for slower knockdown recovery, again, that's completely unrelated to whether or not we have stamina. Not a valid argument. -As far as I'm aware- you never needed stamina to perform a combo. Again, not a valid point since it's not related to stamina in any way. (Seeing a pattern here?) -More weapons... ok- not related to stamina. Not a valid argument. -Energy, channeling... not related to stamina. Moving on. -"No stamina makes it easier to reach your target". I... what? Just... what? Do you not even REMEMBER the copter spam that existed before stamina was removed that made it literally impossible to hit anyone without insane luck/skill if you're using non-hitscan weapons, or how it would fling you across the entire map into your enemies face in under a quarter second? It is NOT easier to reach your target because COPTER is gone- it is HARDER now, regardless of if you can sprint/flip/slide/wallrun as long as you want- because it's not as fast. You had one point that was actually related to stamina (which is the entire thing the OP was bringing into question by claiming as if melee spam wasn't possible before stamina existed, which it was- and I was pointing out the fact that it's not stamina that is the issue) and it wasn't even viable in the slightest. I'm not at all saying PvP doesn't have issues or maybe melee isn't overpowered (which honestly other than the current jat kittag slam spam issue I don't believe it is frankly) but I'm saying the removal of stamina has absolutely nothing to do with those issues. And since I can, let me counter your points anyways. -Stagger and knockdown keep the conflicts interesting and force you to stay on your toes. -Combos need multipliers. If they don't have them all players will end up just using whichever weapon has the most multi hits with the highest damage, resulting in the highest DPS possible. In other words without combo multipliers combos themselves create an imbalance... -As for energy regeneration; channeling isn't that great honestly, that energy is much more wisely spent on a nice skill to do some damage or get out of a sticky situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscl Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 It doesn't take a veteran player to have the thought process "maybe I should run AWAY from the crazy guy with the BF sword that's wrecking me while shooting him instead of walking up to him and saying hi" after getting destroyed a couple of times. human is the only animal who stumbles twice on the same stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakais Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Decrease the precentage provided by blocking significantly, like, maybe only 20% damage is deflected, and channeling costs have to go WAY UP. I mean you wanna block ONLY when you need to. Not hold down channel and have at it, because you will be dry of that energy before you get close to the enemy who's pelting you down with lead. That is the only way how I can see anything coming from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Noctus Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 human is the only animal who stumbles twice on the same stoneYeh i noticed that pretty often actually its so weird like ppl dont even try to survive sometimes. Maybe they are 10 year old or smthing its f2p game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Noctus Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Decrease the precentage provided by blocking significantly, like, maybe only 20% damage is deflected, and channeling costs have to go WAY UP. I mean you wanna block ONLY when you need to. Not hold down channel and have at it, because you will be dry of that energy before you get close to the enemy who's pelting you down with lead. That is the only way how I can see anything coming from this. Yeh these are actually constructive good ideas. I agree with everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeyciKon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 when i shown my arguments i wasnt really talking about te impact of the removal of stamina, the problem here is not stamina, i was talking about what "changed since stamina was around right", not stamina in particular. Stagger and knockdown were rare before U17 , combos didnt knock-down or stagger, not even slam attax. making melee even more powerful. Stagger and knockdown balance the game, but makes it boring and annoying by removing movement. Combos multipliers are needed, yes, but not this way, the dps is too damn high. "no stamina makes it easier to reach your target": it kinda does, you cant sprint or slide without stamina, that was the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 human is the only animal who stumbles twice on the same stone Lies. Birds and windows man. Birds and windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoakinBlackforge Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 In my point of view, people are still used to PvE, in other words: "I MUST KILL, I CANT DIE" Damn, even people keep hitting my saryn decoys expecting it does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalahssalyst Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Damn, even people keep hitting my saryn decoys expecting it does nothing. O you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchesco Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I only see Valkyr, a tanky frame, vs Excalibros with their beginner set. Rly, OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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