Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[Kaotyke]

I mean mods like Serration, Hornet Strike, Heavy Calliber and Magnum Force and MAYBE Elemental ones.

 

Before you start flaming, read me out:

 

DE seems to be planning to get make changes of the "Mandatory Mods", and it seems Multishot will be the first to change, a long while ago (1 year I believe) it was suggested in Feedback that straight damage mods be taken out of the game and the damage put directly into the Weapon as it levels.

 

As for the Elemental Mods, maybe if it copied the half of the Weapon damage and the % be changed to stats chance?

Exemple:

 

Hellfire will copy half of your weapon damage to Fire and the Rank up will increase the % of the stats chance.

 

So, if your gun does 1000 damage, putting a Fire mod of any level will add 500 Fire damage no matter the rank of the mod. And at max rank it adds +50% Stats chance.

 

If you use Fire+Eletrict you will have 500 Radiation Damage (It wouldnt make the Fire weaker) and +100% Stats chance.

 

Maybe if DE was able to give us a choice if we wanted to combinate the Elemental mods or not, so we could have Dire and Radiation in the same build.

 

As for the Dual Stats Mods can change add the Element, 40% Stats Chance like it does and maybe something like magazine size? ... they will be triple Stats mods then.... Maybe if each element added something else? Fire Added mag size/range, Toxic added reload/holster/drawn speed, Eletric added fire rate/attack speed, Cold added crit chance or damage.

 

This is a very raw idea I had mind you.

 

They would have to take a look at enemy scaling as well. And we dont know if they are doing that with the Multishot changes as well.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kao-Snake

[ComCray]

nope, I use it only on Opticor, should`ve had Heavy caliber instead of it

odd.. I got it on most of my rifles, Heavy caliber not so much...  but ok.. I'll edit..

[ArsVampyre]

I would suggest that instead of multishot, DE remove Serration and put damage into leveling the weapon instead. It frees a slot for the needed ammo mutator, retains the damage, and gives people without Serration the feeling of progress as they level the weapon, even if they don't have the 'required mod'.

 

Here's the issue with the proposed change, from my perspective. Some weapons already have an issue with ammo consumption; the Soma is a prime example (pun intended). It does great damage but it's ammo economy is already terrible. Now, we're going to actively make it worse, or require another 'mandatory' mod to counter the change in Multi-shot (yes, the OP has it 100% right)? That's stupid.

 

Now take other weapons with high-damage output per shot. No, not sniper weapons. Lets talk the Quanta vandal. The ammo economy for damage output is significantly flipped; no one will care that multishot eats more ammo on it because it's ammo consumption is so low anyway.

 

This will have the natural consequence of 1) requiring more mods rather than fewer and 2) pushing people into using a more limited selection of weapons rather than opening up more choices for them.

 

This is the opposite of the intended direction. One of parkour 2.0's purposes was to give players more freedom on melee weapon selection. Why would the developers want to turn around and limit primary weapon selection?

 

I sincerely hope DE is listening and not just already decided. This is a worse decision than doing nothing; this actively makes the problem they say they're trying to fix worse.

 

Now, if they are just wanting to artificially make end-game content harder so you have to farm more, then I guess this works. It also makes the game less fun, and as I'm rank 20, I think I could move on from the game if the intended goal is to make the game less fun. Fallout 4 comes out this year, after all.

 

TL;DR: The OP is right. I suggest removing mods that only add base damage and putting that base damage into level progression on the weapon instead, in exactly the same amounts, freeing a slot for use with ammo mutators, if desired.

[ArchXypher]

I like it more than the system in place. Mods are are large problem for new players coming to the game.

[pepsi-tan]

The way I see elementals is they shouldn't add flat damage but change % of damage into elemental. So say your gun does 100 physical damage ( be it 60 from slash, 30 from puncture, and 10 from impact) and you slap that malignant force on it. Instead of +60% toxic damage that would bring you up to 160 damage, of which 60 is toxic... it would change 60% of the damage to toxic and still do a total of 100 damage, but now 24 of it is from slash, 12 puncture, and 4 from impact, and 60 from toxic. Status chance probably remain how it is..

Edited September 8, 2015 by pepsi-tan

[Bizzaro21]

odd.. I got it on most of my rifles, Heavy caliber not so much...  but ok.. I'll edit..

Reason Heavy caliber fits more in your idea, is because it gives you straight damage increase at a little cost, for autos specifically, semi autos/snipers suffer much from it, Shred, on the other hand, gives you increased DPS (Damage Per second), and causes more ammo waste, as enemy can die from 5, but due to high RoF you`ll be firing 8-10 at him, just a random example, but you get the idea, eh?

and the punch through is a utility, nothing to do with damage, just more CC

[Brimir]

Jumping the gun a bit are we?

 

We don't even know if the multishot changes are coming at all.

 

The Devstream was extremely vague on that point.

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

The community shut it down for some reason. This is the change I REALLY wanted.

Poor Steve

"For some reason."

 

You mean utterly destroying our ammo economy?

[pepsi-tan]

When serration's time comes: i'll be just as excited.

your excitement is misplaced, as are DE's priorities. 

[ArchXypher]

Regardless of if they make changes to multishot the mods system is full of mods that many would like to be reworked before multishot.

[ComCray]

I think you're over-complicating things. The mods are generally fine as they are, very flexible too. That mods are a problem for new players is to be expected. It's not called a "problem", it's called a "challenge". 
I do think the serration and hornet strike pure damage mods should be incorporated into the weapons, as I said in my post and which has already been discussed, apparently.
But to link utility to damage type is a really REALLY bad idea. Take Accelerated blast or Blaze for shotties for instance. You WANT the extra firerate and you WANT the extra base damage. But then you're also stuck with fire damage (might not be in your best interest) or puncture damage, which might be a complete waste when you're shottie hasn't got the right damage model.. Now these are nightmare mods, which makes them "unique" and thus bearable, I don't even want to contemplate when this would be "the way things are"...

[(PSN)Ninja_Reaper_916]

The mod system needs a over haul no doubt this is even including frame mods as well

[Mastikator2]

your excitement is misplaced, as are DE's priorities. 

> complains about people not wanting Serration to change

> complains when people do want Serration to change

[Shiichibukai]

Eeeh, wot bro? This is a different issue from the multishot issue. This is about serration and how it's essentially a waste of space, the way it's implemented. Yes, the multishot discussion triggered the thoughtprocess, but that process was already going, just didn't have the right focus. 

And if info on multishot comes out, there will be no information about serration, that is not implied... so... uuuh... bark up another tree?

Same thing. Enough threads about this stuff also w.e mod it is. 

[ThePrimarchSystem]

All these Masters of MMO Balancing and their brilliant ideas, i'm impressed, gentlemen.

 

[ComCray]

Reason Heavy caliber fits more in your idea, is because it gives you straight damage increase at a little cost, for autos specifically, semi autos/snipers suffer much from it, Shred, on the other hand, gives you increased DPS (Damage Per second), and causes more ammo waste, as enemy can die from 5, but due to high RoF you`ll be firing 8-10 at him, just a random example, but you get the idea, eh?

and the punch through is a utility, nothing to do with damage, just more CC

 

eeeh, I was talking "mandatory mods". Wasn't talking about anything you mentioned here. 

As for what you mention, I would gladly discuss that another time in another thread, but not here...

 

 

"For some reason."

 

You mean utterly destroying our ammo economy?

What has this got to do with the damage leveling up with the weapon? You're thinking multishot, which isn't part of THIS discussion...

[ArsVampyre]

As pointed out by many, this whole thing is a terrible idea and simply creates another required mod rather than removing one. 

 

If you really hate multshot mods, don't use them. No one makes you use the mod. Sure, you're making your gun weaker for no reason, but it's your choice.

 

Don't argue to remove someone else's choice so they have to play your way.

 

------------------

 

I don't know why I bother. I argue this every time and the whining never stops. Everyone on this forum is  always excited about making everyone else play the way the forum wants. It's terrible and you should feel bad. 

[ThePrimarchSystem]

Slow down, hotshots. 

Its not a mandatory mod, you're welcome to replace with anything you wish. 

If you dont see a popup such as "Unable to join the mission. SERRATION mod is not equipped on your Lanka.", then it's not mandatory.

[ComCray]

Same thing. Enough threads about this stuff also w.e mod it is. 

I would have brought this up eventually, regardless of the upcoming change in MS, is what you don't seem to get. 

It's a different thing. It's a suggestion to drop serration(-like) mods. just because I use some of the same words as in the gazillion other threads doesn't mean I'm talking about the same thing, aight?

[DrBorris]

It is too easy to rank up a weapon. Think about it, even a mk-1 braton ith a max serration is OP in early game, and maxing a player's first weapon does not take long. Serration needs to go, yes, but base damage multipliers should come from something else that better correlates to a player's progression in the game (Serration is sort of doing it now, but not very well).

[ArsVampyre]

Remember Hydroid "nerf" like two weeks ago? Me neither.

 

People will cry for a day or two, complain about how Steve touched them in the locker room the devs are evil, and go back to farming Draco.

 

In my opinion, this is hardly a "nerf." If multishot was never intended to work the way it does now and they are fixing it, that just seems like a patch to me.

I don't see people playing hydroid anymore. You might take the hint from that.

 

This multi-shot change? Watch people stop using the Soma and Soma prime as much. Why? Because they're already terrible at ammo economy. The Kohm? Dead.

 

Hope you got that Quanta Vandal. If not, best 'git gud' with the Opticor (which is an awesome weapon if you know how to use it).

 

And the "Its a bug"? Remember coptering? Remember them telling you it was a bug? Well, I was there when they said they'd NEVER remove it from the game. It was 'emergent gameplay'.

 

Multishot not requiring additional ammo isn't a bug, it's working as they intended it. This isn't a bug fix, this is a nerf, the mod isn't any less required, you'll just be required to make up for it with an ammo mutator mod, thus requiring more mods, not fewer, and narrowing what most players consider viable weapon choices to guns with good ammo economy, like the Quanta Vandal.

 

Please, consider things a bit further rather than just toeing the company line. Skepticism is healthy.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I'm fine with pretty much any change to modding system as long as DE completely reworks  enemy scaling (by this I mean that this S#&$ gets removed entirely and gets replaced by handcrafted tiers/difficulty) where every gun is viable either across the board, or in its tier and any tier below (I've explained it somewhere else, basically creating e.g. 5 tiers of difficulty and 5 weapon performance tiers, as MK1 known as craptier, low, mid, high and godtier, where lowtier would obliterate Tier1, would give challenge in Tier2 and struggle a lot in Tier3).

 

And then we can turn mods in either sidegrades, pretty much allowing any gun to become pretty much anything, or very minor upgrades.

 

Though DE would need to execute it almost perfectly not to create as big uproar as poorly made player nerfs first and scaling rework "soon™".

[CrazyCatLad]

yes? not a "mandatory" mod? I thought it was, like lethal torrent for pistols.. 

Also, why was you against it..? (just curious, not trying to be smartass)

 

My reasoning was that, is wasn't an 'original mod'. It's a Nightmare mod, although old at this point.  Serration and Multishot were original mods that were NEEDED no matter what.  Increased fire rate and punchthrough is very useful but not as necessary as the classic and pure damage output mods like Serration and Multishot.

 

You'll find some guns in my arsenal without Shred - specifically launchers.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

If they get rid of mandatory mods they should also remove like two mod slots on the guns

Edited September 8, 2015 by (PS4)PillarOfWar

[ComCray]

My reasoning was that, is wasn't an 'original mod'. 

Eeeeh.. I wanted to know why you was against the dropping of serration and the levelling of innate weapon-damage, you know, where you said:

"I used to be against it, but then the fire nation attacked"

:D