On Carrier And Why It Is Not A Necessity -- + Buff The Other Sentinel's

[Tesseract7777]

Recently, there has been a lot of buzz about a suggestion people have been talking about when it comes to Carrier for a long time now. This suggestion was to make Vacuum a universal precept mod, and give Carrier something else special to replace it as a unique precept. Many people suggested some kind of "over carry" function for a Carrier instead. This could be a pretty neat idea. However, in a recent devstream they said that they had discussed the possibility recently, and decided against it, because they felt that Vacuum was what made Carrier Carrier. 

 

Also, [DE]Glen said something about Carrier being for casuals, and everyone seems to have taken that one line a little bit perhaps too much too heart. I think people are confused. I think this was a throwaway half joking comment that was meant to challenge people who may depend on Carrier quite a lot, to step outside their comfort zone and try other sentinel's, who have interesting mechanics that can be very useful if you give them a try. 

 

During this devstream they also mentioned that Carrier is used way more than the others sentinels. And many people on the forum, when they explain why they use Carrier, say it is a necessity. Now, I think this is a completely facile argument, and even if looked at with the barest amount of scrutiny makes very little sense. Many people play just fine without Carrier. Some people even use a Kubrow instead of sentinel's and they do just fine in long endless missions. 

 

Some people say they absolutely need their precious Carrier so much that they will die and revive to get it back if it goes down. Now, I'm not insulting these people. It's their playstyle and they can play however they want, I won't knock it. If that's what's comfortable to you when playing be my guest, the main point of any game is to have fun! But, what I am getting increasingly tired of is the strident claims that Carrier is needed, that he is a absolute must have when he simply is NOT. Now, I'm not saying he isn't a necessity to the people who truly feel they rely on him -- perhaps according to your playstyle he is needed, but that doesn't make it true for everyone else. And claiming it's a needed precept for everyone only weakens your argument, whatever your argument actually is. 

 

Also, another thing Carrier enthusiasts seem to forget is that sometimes Carrier can be detrimental. What if I don't want to pick up that energy orb yet? What if I only need a little energy and I want to wait to pick it up? Well, I can't wait -- if I have Carrier and his precept equipped and I'm in range that little bugger will vacuum it up whether I like it or not. This is just one scenario, but it's the simple point that not only is he not needed, but sometimes you just don't even want the ability at all. 

 

Now, I'm not saying feedback on the sentinel's is bad. I think the fact Carrier is so popular isn't so much that Carrier is needed, but that a lot of the other sentinel's just don't offer enough. I mean, look how many people were using Diriga instead of Carrier before the changes? Lot's of people were switching to Diriga. I submit that while some people have come to feel they rely on Vacuum, we all know that you can get by without it in long endless missions. It is not needed to deal with the highest level content the game offers. 

 

Also, I kind of agree with the devs that Vacuum is what makes Carrier unique. Now, that doesn't mean they will never change their minds. They could go back one day and decide to make it a universal precept, but if that happens I think it will be because people made a really good argument for it on the forums, and gave them good ideas for a new Carrier precept in it's place. However, I don't think opining that it is truly "needed" is going to change their minds. I don't think you are ever going to convince them it's a necessary precept because it simply is not. 

 

Instead, I suggest we start petitioning and brainstorming on how to buff all of the sentinel's that see little use to make them more useful. Leave Carrier as he is. He is fine. Helios is mostly fine, for those who like scanning and a sentinel melee that regularly scores headshots and downs high level foes (if modded correctly). Diriga's Sniper rifle is getting it's accuracy fixed when the weekend ends. But, I think what we should be focusing on to deal with the overuse of Carrier, is simply making the other sentinel's more attractive to use in their own right. Shade is usually totally outclassed in the stealth department by Huras Kubrow, this is sad. Dethcube is utter trash. Wyrm is okay for a crowd control sentinel, but the prime buff his prime finally got was only armor, if I recall, and made little sense based on his core statistics. It also still wasn't enough of a prime bump in my opinion compared to Carrier Prime (even though it seems they would prefer we all didn't use Carrier?) Even with the new buff Djinn is still going to pull aggro and go down fast, which you don't really want with a sentinel. Not all of Diriga's precepts are as good as they could be, this is something I have seen spirited arguments about since he was released. 

 

But I think that's the real answer. We need to buff the other sentinel's, we need to make them a more attractive alternate choice. Especially for different types of missions, etc. Right now people hardly use anything but Carrier, but I don't think it has anything to do with Vacuum being "needed". People can and do get by fine without it, and some people actually prefer the abilities of other companions for their utility. For some people, other utilities are more important than a utility that grabs loot for you without you doing anything but being fairly nearby. 

 

Edit: I really feel that people are just waiting for the other sentinel's to be better and lots of them will be using Carrier much less often, or only specific missions where they want it (which makes more sense). This is evidenced to me by how many people were at first excited at how good Diriga was, and then when the overnerf happened, so many posts said quite sadly in tone "well, back to Carrier I guess". Those people didn't sound like they wanted to use only Carrier, it sounds like they were truly hoping for more viable sentinel options, and were disappointed when Diriga's Vulklok was nerfed. People are waiting for the chance to switch. We just need to give them more good reasons to -- those reasons being several buffed/reworked sentinel's. 

Edited September 13, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[DeMonkey]

Also, [DE]Glen said something about Carrier being for casuals

And he's not wrong, everyone seems to have taken it as an offence though. Nothing wrong with casually enjoying a game, that's what games are made for. Rhino for not taking any damage at all, Boltor for barely having to aim and Carrier so you don't have to move that much, it is literally the most casual playstyle in the game. And that's not an issue, if that's what you enjoy then nobody is going to stop you. I guess some people are just insecure or something and felt offended. 

 

As to whether Carrier is a necessity, I laugh when I hear that, my Sahasa Kubrow is my most used companion despite the ''dodgy AI'' and other reasons not to use her. I can stil rumble with the best in high level. 

 

I think one of the best ways of buffing the other sentinels is to give them new precepts on top of the old ones, Diriga is the first one with 2. (Edit: 2 precepts that aren't simply Calculated Shot or Warrior).

Edited September 13, 2015 by DeMonkey

[S7ORM]

Only time I use the Carrier is when I'm resource farming (plastids and argon usually).

Otherwise I use the Shade. Diriga maybe, if I'm running an exterminate. The stun it offers is very useful for single enemies (not the crowd stun precept).

[Tali]

I use Diriga for a proc sniper while use a shotgun and carrier when i use a rifle/sniper/bow/launcher, though some tweaking/buffing will be appreciated

[Tesseract7777]

And he's not wrong, everyone seems to have taken it as an offence though. Nothing wrong with casually enjoying a game, that's what games are made for. Rhino for not taking any damage at all, Boltor for barely having to aim and Carrier so you don't have to move that much, it is literally the most casual playstyle in the game. And that's not an issue, if that's what you enjoy then nobody is going to stop you. I guess some people are just insecure or something and felt offended. 

 

As to whether Carrier is a necessity, I laugh when I hear that, my Sahasa Kubrow is my most used companion despite the ''dodgy AI'' and other reasons not to use her. I can stil rumble with the best in high level. 

 

I think one of the best ways of buffing the other sentinels is to give them new precepts on top of the old ones, Diriga is the first one with 2.*

 

*Also Helios has an extra precept mod if you count his Detect Vulnerability that he gets from Simaris. Actually nice, like having a mini pocket Banshee around. Plus that Deconstructor can only be equipped on him, and it gets headshots consistently. By far my favorite sentinel in the game.Once you've scanned most everything you can take off Investigator, and focus on him setting up weakpoints on enemies and scoring headshots. 

 

But yeah not much to say to the rest of your post, because I am in agreement. 

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Warframe is a loot game. It's a fact. Only one companion helps you with loot, carrier. Fact. Feel free to gimp yourself with inferior options. I'll keep getting my loot through walls, ceilings and floors, even if it's stuck in geometry.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

And he's not wrong, everyone seems to have taken it as an offence though. Nothing wrong with casually enjoying a game, that's what games are made for. Rhino for not taking any damage at all, Boltor for barely having to aim and Carrier so you don't have to move that much, it is literally the most casual playstyle in the game. And that's not an issue, if that's what you enjoy then nobody is going to stop you. I guess some people are just insecure or something and felt offended.

 

Anddddd that type of outlook like that is probably exactly why people took offense. BUT people lately would take offense if you say yellow looks green so "meh" to them. 

 

As for this whole carrier thing...people will use em for whatever reason however stupid it might sound, and people will bash em to make themselves feel better about however they play. There are the more positive sides to both BUT let's be honest, this is essentially what it has boiled down to now majority of the time~

[DeMonkey]

BUT people lately would take offense if you say yellow looks green so "meh" to them. 

 

Ironically I actually can't tell the difference between yellow and green.

[Tesseract7777]

Warframe is a loot game. It's a fact. Only one companion helps you with loot, carrier. Fact. Feel free to gimp yourself with inferior options. I'll keep getting my loot through walls, ceilings and floors, even if it's stuck in geometry.

 

For you, this is your truth. For you, it is a necessity. For others, it is not their truth. For other's it is not an necessity. 

 

I addressed this in the main post. Carrier is not needed for everyone. For some people he is needed, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just a different preference/playstyle. But being needed for you does not make it needed for everyone. Just because you prefer it in all your loadouts does not make you superior to those who don't.

[Mac2492]

Warframe is a loot game. It's a fact. Only one companion helps you with loot, carrier. Fact. Feel free to gimp yourself with inferior options. I'll keep getting my loot through walls, ceilings and floors, even if it's stuck in geometry.

Warframe is a shooting game. It's a fact. Only one companion helps you kill from miles away, diriga. Feel free to gimp yourself with inferior options. I'll keep getting my kills from across the map, even if I can't see them.

 

There's truth in your statement, but this isn't the perfect tautology you're making it out to be. To any player who doesn't mind running around or missing the (very) occassional stuck item, Carrier is not the end-all option. Huras turns every frame into a stealth frame. Diriga is amazing for snipers, even post eye-gouging (use it as a spotter!). Helios saves time Codex scanning in the same way Carrier saves time looting. With that said, it's impossible to deny Carrier's superior utility and a need for other companions to be stepped up a bit.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Ironically I actually can't tell the difference between yellow and green.

 

In recognition of this I shall now take offense.....because..offense~

 

Warframe is a loot game. It's a fact. Only one companion helps you with loot, carrier. Fact. Feel free to gimp yourself with inferior options. I'll keep getting my loot through walls, ceilings and floors, even if it's stuck in geometry.

 

I wouldn't call warframe exactly a loot game. I mean it does have it in a way but not entirely...lootish. 

 

For you, this is your truth. For you, it is a necessity. For others, it is not their truth. For other's it is not an necessity. 

 

I addressed this in the main post. Carrier is not needed for everyone. For some people he is needed, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just a different preference/playstyle. But being needed for you does not make it needed for everyone. Just because you prefer it in all your loadouts does not make you superior to those who don't.

 

Vacuum is not a necessity though....at all.

 

Air is a necessity, defending the pod in defense and mobile is a necessity. Vacuum is a luxury albeit very much wanted. As much as i'm team carrier....all these words of "needed" and "necessity" are just eh~

 

On a completely unrelated point I have now learned you can quote later on in a post after it's started....so yay me~

[Tesseract7777]

Air is a necessity, defending the pod in defense and mobile is a necessity. Vacuum is a luxury albeit very much wanted. As much as i'm team carrier....all these words of "needed" and "necessity" are just eh~

 

 

Well, I'm just trying to be fair to people and their own points of view. If they really feel that it is needed to them, who am I to say it is not? I dislike talking about it in those terms too, because I agree that technically it is not needed. But if a person feels it is needed for their play style, I don't think much of that, unless they tell me their playstyle is right and mine is wrong. 

[DeMonkey]

In recognition of this I shall now take offense.....because..offense~

I'm offensive and I find this colour blind!

 

Warframe is a loot game. It's a fact. Only one companion helps you with loot, carrier. Fact. Feel free to gimp yourself with inferior options. I'll keep getting my loot through walls, ceilings and floors, even if it's stuck in geometry.

Dafuuu? I'm Mr20, I have nothing left to loot, does this mean that this game no longer exists or something? A loot game would be ''The Might Quest for Epic Loot'', this is not that game.

[ACorpse]

I have every single sentinel maxed, and I keep coming back to carrier. If that makes me a casual, then call me Cas.

[Jokul]

There's always a 'Casual' remark in every game.

 

So I don't get why people are getting salty about it.

 

It was a joke.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Well, I'm just trying to be fair to people and their own points of view.

 

I personally give less then 3 fudges about peoples points of views since a lot of them refuse to see anything that isn't theirs~

 

I'm offensive and I find this colour blind!

 

Dafuuu? I'm Mr20, I have nothing left to loot, does this mean that this game no longer exists or something? A loot game would be ''The Might Quest for Epic Loot'', this is not that game.

 

I'm offended because I didn't get that at 1st but no matter if I understand it now I still stand offended from beforehand~

 

There's always a 'Casual' remark in every game.

 

So I don't get why people are getting salty about it.

 

It was a joke.

 

And in every game and situation like this there are those that believe the crap and have no problem spreading the stupid everywhere. Personally I could give less then 2 fudges in this point in my gaming life but I every well understand the annoyance of it. I'm a child of CoD, Souls, etc~I know it very very well. On top of that the "casual" remark usually comes from players and not from staff~double on top if you haven't noticed the world is full of these soft quickly offended folks now~

[Hypernaut1]

I honestly haven't read any good arguments that did not use hyperbole as to why carrier is so needed. Usually they talk about how painful and slow it is to grab loot- which it's not, or how desperately they need orbs- which is a casual thing to say if you're depending on enemy drops to get through content, or they exaggerate the flaws of other options- like the cost of Kubrow maintenance. 

 

Carrier is a nice luxury. No more, no less. Its as useful a luxury as Helios, or Diriga. The other sentinels do need buffs though. I remember when Wyrm was good for a crowd stun, but it seems bugged and unreliable now somehow. Death Cube should be an offensive powerhouse. Shade pales in comparison to Huras, hits cloak should stay the same (short duration), but allow us to attack or something unique. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Deus_X_Machina]

Carrier is my goto Sentinel since it came up. I regulary level up others, try to switch to Wyrm again, but in the end I always come back to Carrier. the reason why is easy:

 

Because I want to play the: Kill the enemy, jump through the room, be acrobatic kill more things game.

 

When I do not attach carrier, it often is the: Look around if you didn't miss something important, jump through the room and run back half the way because you were a tick too far away to make a pickup, shoot at something, make a sharp turn to pick up an energy orb you just need, instead running straight, etc.

 

The game just flows better with carrier, without it, too much attention gets diverted to the pickup game - or the pickups stay, which I sometimes notice in missions were I come back again to the place of the crimes.

At least thats what happens to my play flow.

 

Since the main killing power comes from the end of my gun, the main crowd control from my Warframe (and sometimes my gun) the time I use to pickup things is usually not compensated enough by the killing or crowd control power of another sentinel.

Better the sentinel uses its power to free my pickup time, since there isn't that much skill and fun involved in picking up items anyway, and I use that time for being better at things like killing and crowd control than other sentinels could be.

 

 

Short version: Carrier does boring job, I use the time I would hav elost otherwise to do the interesting things like killing and crowd control. With other sentinels its often the other way around.

[DeMonkey]

The game just flows better with carrier, without it, too much attention gets diverted to the pickup game - or the pickups stay, which I sometimes notice in missions were I come back again to the place of the crimes.

At least thats what happens to my play flow.

This I heavily disagree with, myself and I'm sure plenty of other non carrier users have no issue with this. Picking up loot for us is something we don't have to think about, it's just something that happens amidst all the death.

 

Carrier is a crutch at the end of the day, there's nothing stopping you picking things up and shooting enemies at the same time without it. It's a fallacious argument.

[S.T.M.P.D]

Warframe is a loot game. It's a fact. Only one companion helps you with loot, carrier. Fact. Feel free to gimp yourself with inferior options. I'll keep getting my loot through walls, ceilings and floors, even if it's stuck in geometry.

True dat. It's a bigger incentive than just killing things certainly.

That being said, I feel as though we need to buff the Sentinel WEAPONS, with Sweeper and Vulklok and Deconstructor as the baseline. Simply up raw damage on Wyrm's laser rifle, shade's burst pistol, and Dethcube's machine gun, right up there, and we will have that problem partially fixed.

[Barkano]

why are focusing so much in the necesity word, wtf just one guys of the thousand that talk about carrier use that word and you all go crazy about it ignoring the real problem, 

[LotusBF]

buff other's sentinel, give them a vacuum :D

[X5934-078FR1]

Wish I had a carrier to suck up all this text, because I am too lazy to read it all.

[kubbi]

It doesn't matter how much they buff other sentinels/kubrows I most likely will keep sticking to carrier. I don't feel like stepping precicely on top of the ammo/mod/orb to pick them up. Carrier is just so comfortable to play with. Does that make me a casual? Sure whatever. Whats the point of being hardcore anyway? The game barely rewards you for progresssion (exame forma reward on wave 120).

I used and maxed diriga before its nerf and saw how good the vulklok was. But alas diriga still isn't carrier. So i placed it aside for carrier.

So unless we are given a bigger pickup range I will stick to using carrier 90% of the time.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

This I heavily disagree with, myself and I'm sure plenty of other non carrier users have no issue with this. Picking up loot for us is something we don't have to think about, it's just something that happens amidst all the death.

 

Carrier is a crutch at the end of the day, there's nothing stopping you picking things up and shooting enemies at the same time without it. It's a fallacious argument.

 

Just about as fallacious as this one. It's not a crutch, it's a simple means to an end. Without it life goes on, with it life goes on. Just as easy as it is to pick up your stuff it's just as easy to cc and kill better then a sentinel ever could. Everyone's simple argument of "it's simply not needed" or " I do just fine without it" is irrelevant and changes absolutely nothing. You don't need any sentinel so why would people use a less useful sentinel vs a more useful one? 

 

In all honesty you people are just as bad as the pro carrier who claim it's needed. But also in all honesty even worse since you guys come into what someone else does throws in "I didn't need it", "why do you" argument as if that's going to change another's view or play style then throw anything else at it to make it seem like whatever they are doing is not up to snuff. This whole carrier thing should've ended at "let people use what they want to use" yet it will continue for the simple fact that people love to be in other peoples affairs. May call it pure curiosity if you people want but that itself wouldn't even be the whole truth in the least~