The Ignis Buff I Was Waiting Over A Year For, Doesnt Fix What's Truly Wrong With It.

[SnakeWildlife]

[R20.9] [+3400hr]

 

Adding Maximum ammo per clip was fine, adding punchthrough was fine....but i dont understand why you made THESE changes. The Ignis is my favorite weapon but iv not hardly used it because of one problem, its damage. My face lit up with joy as i heard in the stream you were going to ''Buff'' it.

 

But you havent fixed it's main problem.  Low damage.

 

The ignis' damage drops down to worthless figures in higher level content, or is resisted by so many types of enemy that it ends up not doing much, or any damage at all. After enemies around level 35 show up it already gets to a point where the damage is just tediously low, and around enemy level 50 it likes like a full clip just to kill one enemy.

 

These changes you made were nice, but LOW DAMAGE was the problem with Ignis, and after playing with it now, my opinion is still unchanged. Even in T2 Void missions, the Ignis already starts to meet its match very quickly.

 

Ignis burns ammo fast, whilst offering very poor damage, and to sacrifice damage for the Ammo Mutator, would make it even weaker.

 

I urge you to rethink your ideology that miscellaneous buffs will help the Ignis, it's biggest problem, is the super-low damage.

Edited October 22, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[DeMonkey]

They buffed it's damage by 170%, it's better than a standard boltor and it's AOE. It's fine.

Edited October 22, 2015 by DeMonkey

[Omega-Shadowblade]

It got a damage buff they just forgot to note it. original damage was 10 now its 27. May not seem like much at first but when stacked with mods and done over an area over time it is much more effective than before.

[-Kryptyk-]

just out of curiosity, what's your build on it?

[SnakeWildlife]

It got a damage buff they just forgot to note it. original damage was 10 now its 27. May not seem like much at first but when stacked with mods and done over an area over time it is much more effective than before.

 

I just ran a few games and it feels the same, the damage drops off very VERY fast. Losing its effectiveness.

 

It's still too low, and does not warrant such high ammo consumption.  If the damage was far higher then consume ammo away! But its not.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

I just ran a few games and it feels the same, the damage drops off very VERY fast. Losing its effectiveness.

 

It's still too low, and does not warrant such high ammo consumption.  If the damage was far higher then consume ammo away! But its not.

 

Part of its damage levels is made up by it being extremely effective at spreading status effects. Using a dual status build for radiation and viral I clear out waves of lvl 40 enemies while keeping their fire off me with the irradiation procs.

[Lokime]

Part of its damage levels is made up by it being extremely effective at spreading status effects. Using a dual status build for radiation and viral I clear out waves of lvl 40 enemies while keeping their fire off me with the irradiation procs.

Same here, and add firestorm + sinester reach for the lols.

[Ceryk]

Few points...

The game is only balanced to something like level 40 enemies, after which the ever increasing difficulty is meant as a strong suggestion that you should stop the mission and start a new one. The idea that higher level enemies = End Game is a purely player constructed myth, which the devs have repeatedly said.

 

The Ignis is an AE weapon.

 

So you're basically complaining that you can't quickly kill enemies of a level the Devs don't actually intend for you to be fighting in the first place with a weapon designed specifically to be most effective against groups of enemies rather than single targets.

The buffs bring the Ignis exactly where it needs to be for the intended balance range of the game.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Ceryk

[RealPandemonium]

The buffs bring the Ignis exactly where it needs to be for the intended balance range of the game.

Stronger, arguably.

[MechaTails]

Few points...

The game is only balanced to something like level 40 enemies, after which the ever increasing difficulty is meant as a strong suggestion that you should stop the mission and start a new one. The idea that higher level enemies = End Game is a purely player constructed myth, which the devs have repeatedly said.

 

The Ignis is an AE weapon.

 

So you're basically complaining that you can't quickly kill enemies of a level the Devs don't actually intend for you to be fighting in the first place with a weapon designed specifically to be most effective against groups of enemies rather than single targets.

The buffs bring the Ignis exactly where it needs to be for the intended balance range of the game.

Youre absolutely right of course, but no one cares. All players hear when you bring this up is Charlie Brown's mom. Mwa mwa, mwamwa, mwamwa mwa.

I was comfortably using Ignis against lv40 mobs before, im sure the new buffs are overkill.

[RealPandemonium]

I was comfortably using Ignis against lv40 mobs before, im sure the new buffs are overkill.

This is pretty much how I feel, as well.  

[Z123FFSS89]

Eeeeeh with just serration and 2 dual stat mods for corrosive damage it held its own for 3waved on Draco. But in the void it's pure trash because of all the enemy types. It's like the mag of weapons right now. Only good against one faction.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Eeeeeh with just serration and 2 dual stat mods for corrosive damage it held its own for 3waved on Draco. But in the void it's pure trash because of all the enemy types. It's like the mag of weapons right now. Only good against one faction.

 

Radiation and viral tends to be well spread for void and the procs it causes are very helpful with the Ignis' ability to cover a huge area in status effects.

[RealPandemonium]

Eeeeeh with just serration and 2 dual stat mods for corrosive damage it held its own for 3waved on Draco. But in the void it's pure trash because of all the enemy types. It's like the mag of weapons right now. Only good against one faction.

What are you implying?  Most of your weapon's damage comes from the equipped mods, and Ignis is no different.  You could run Radiation and Toxin and do just fine.  Put Corrosive on your secondary to deal with Heavy Gunners.  

[LazerusKI]

Just tried my Serration/Heavycal/Radiation Ignis on Pluto, and there it was very nice.

It was even nice before the buff, when i added Viral and Combustion Beam to that list.

So i think its totally fine now, atleast closerange it deals a lot more damage now

Edited October 22, 2015 by LazerusKI

[ogbone]

27 base damage, dealt in fire, 10 rounds per second: 270 burst dps. It has higher raw dps than the Quanta, wich is not bad at all. It has decent status, punch through, decent range, decent reload and mag size. I do not agree with "was fine before the buff, now it's overkill". Ignis should be a good weapon, considering it's cost.

[LazerusKI]

27 base damage, dealt in fire, 10 rounds per second: 270 burst dps. It has higher raw dps than the Quanta, wich is not bad at all. It has decent status, punch through, decent range, decent reload and mag size. I do not agree with "was fine before the buff, now it's overkill". Ignis should be a good weapon, considering it's cost.

Nah, not overkill, just more in line with other good things now.

Before the patch it was ok to use in regular mission (after a few forma runs), but it was never that good in void or other highlevel content.

Edited October 22, 2015 by LazerusKI

[DSpite]

[R20.9] [+3400hr]

 

Adding Maximum ammo per clip was fine, adding punchthrough was fine....but i dont understand why you made THESE changes. The Ignis is my favorite weapon but iv not hardly used it because of one problem, its damage. My face lit up with joy as i heard in the stream you were going to ''Buff'' it.

 

But you havent fixed it's main problem.  Low damage.

 

The ignis' damage drops down to worthless figures in higher level content, or is resisted by so many types of enemy that it ends up not doing much, or any damage at all. After enemies around level 35 show up it already gets to a point where the damage is just tediously low, and around enemy level 50 it likes like a full clip just to kill one enemy.

 

These changes you made were nice, but LOW DAMAGE was the problem with Ignis, and after playing with it now, my opinion is still unchanged. Even in T2 Void missions, the Ignis already starts to meet its match very quickly.

 

Ignis burns ammo fast, whilst offering very poor damage, and to sacrifice damage for the Ammo Mutator, would make it even weaker.

 

I urge you to rethink your ideology that miscellaneous buffs will help the Ignis, it's biggest problem, is the super-low damage.

 

A level 35 Enemy is ALREADY above the power level of a Warframe, as we top out at 30. If you take a base general chart like on (just for curve reference):

 

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/3/30/Health.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/627?cb=20141123115214

 

you can assign a base reference "power" value to a level, because level scaling is not linear, so If we call a Frame at 30 as being Power 100 (15), then an enemy on 35 is Power 133 ([100/15]*20) - in other words, 33% more powerful then a level 30 for the price of only a 5 level increase - and an enemy at level 50 is Power 266, or 166% more powerful then us on level 30, or getting close to THREE TIMES what we are.

 

Content above level 30-35 is NOT normal content, it's broken content and by that definition, only weapons that have broken starting stats manage to scale high enough to work there because of the nonsensical multiplicative damage formula we have with Mods.

 

You are basically asking "please break the Ignis so it will work on level 50's", and if that was to happen, we suddenly have a weapon that allows people to run full speed through level 35 Infested map like the enemies aren't even there because level 35 turns out to be HALF the level 50's because of the scaling curve.

[SnakeWildlife]

You can even take a look on the Warframe Builder website, the DPS is still terrible, even against most AoE secondary weapons.

 

It does not warrant such outrageous ammo consumption. And no, ammo consumption is not the problem.

 

6 forma's is not enough to make this weapon good.

Edited October 22, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[Insizer]

You can even take a look on the Warframe Builder website, the DPS is still terrible, even against most secondary weapons.

 

It does not warrant such outrageous ammo consumption. And no ammo consumption is not the problem.

 

6 forma's is not enough to make this weapon good.

the last I heard, that warframe builder site is notorious for being completely wrong. Also, as others have pointed out, it is not meant for single target damage it is about distributing damage and procs across an area. Slap a couple dual stat mods on it and call it a day.

[SnakeWildlife]

the last I heard, that warframe builder site is notorious for being completely wrong

 

People dedicate themselves to finding the most powerful builds combinations POSSIBLE in the game.

If they/and we are wrong, then i am right in saying it's not possible, and the Ignis is still weak.

Edited October 22, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[Omega-Shadowblade]

People dedicate themselves to finding the most powerful builds combinations POSSIBLE in the game.

If they/and we are wrong, then i am right in saying it's not possible, and the Ignis is still weak.

 

ok you lost me in how that proves you are right

[SnakeWildlife]

Because the best builds for the Ignis right now, are struggling to make any good DPS.    

 

ALL OF THEM.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

And there is part of your flaw in effectiveness, dps, Ignis is a status AOE weapon. It is basically a support weapon, and a darn effective one though with the right damage types it is still quite deadly..

[Insizer]

People dedicate themselves to finding the most powerful builds combinations POSSIBLE in the game.

If they/and we are wrong, then i am right in saying it's not possible, and the Ignis is still weak.

... I think i grasp what you are trying to say after re-reading your reply 7 times. So what if a couple of DPS-dopers can't make the Ignis literally melt the face off of enemies. You are completely ignoring the most glaring (or second most glaring if you count its ammo consumption) aspect of its stats: its proc chance!

 

You are complaining about an apple not tasting like bacon, it was never supposed to in the first place. It has its own purpose, as does bacon. You can ferment apples and make alcohol, but you can't ferment bacon. One the other hand, you don't put apples on a burger with cheese. If you want a continuous weapon meant for damage, then try something else.