So. Pve Stuff Available Only Through Pvp?

[atom]

So... 4 people cooperating to defeat another team 4 people cooperating isn't a cooperative experience?

 

The problem that tends to come from PvP it's actually easy to fight on paper but requires a cumunity effort: If new players are exposed to douches who just farm them, insult them and don't try to teach them how to improve will likely quit or become douches themeselves. I try to catch any new player I can find in Conclave and point them in the path of the good competitor, "Humble in victory, graceful in defeat, honorable in combat" and teach them some of the basics and how to deal with douches. Now take that to a cumunity level and you reduce the amount of douches because they aren't reproducing.

 

About not liking PvP, I will tell you a story:

A few years ago my friends began playing an onlyne game which had terrible pve, namely the only pve options were "grind mobs" and "do quests that demand grinding mobs", I didn't like it, but my friends had fun with it, why? because you could level trough pvp and the game mechanincs made possible for players to beat other players of higher level even in 1v1 combat. I hate PvP at the time so I quit the game, months passed and my friends had fun with it and experimented a lot of awesome and funny moments while I grumbled to myself what was the fun of PvPing. Years passed and we began playing another game, when we finally  reached the levle cap we discovered that PvE was abundant but had limits, once you got bored your only option was to PvP, I gave it a try and actually enjoyed the thrill of fighting other players, there were moments of rage, moments of awesome but mostly funny moments. THEN I understood how much of a doche I was and how much fun I didn't experienced because of my stubborness, nowadays I play PvP for fun and challenge (yes I have my rage moments but that's mostly for "fake balance" or outright imbalance which also enrage me in PvE [like a certain game where only 1 class out of 6-10 is useful] ).

nice story and i know what you mean. i must admit i did enjoy 1(one) of the many PvP instances i played here but the vast majority of them are riddled with the lesser kind of player here for feeling 1337 by speculating the latest broken meta without a shred of honour or grace.

PvP can be fun amongst friends however the point here is about gating content behind PvP when the overwhelming majority of players want nothing to do with it.

there is no valid reason for exclusive PvP content that's usable in PvE. this is not how you make PvP more interesting

 

#pvemodsneedtodropinpve

[tnccs215]

So... 4 people cooperating to defeat another team 4 people cooperating isn't a cooperative experience?

 

The problem that tends to come from PvP it's actually easy to fight on paper but requires a cumunity effort: If new players are exposed to douches who just farm them, insult them and don't try to teach them how to improve will likely quit or become douches themeselves. I try to catch any new player I can find in Conclave and point them in the path of the good competitor, "Humble in victory, graceful in defeat, honorable in combat" and teach them some of the basics and how to deal with douches. Now take that to a cumunity level and you reduce the amount of douches because they aren't reproducing.

 

About not liking PvP, I will tell you a story:

A few years ago my friends began playing an onlyne game which had terrible pve, namely the only pve options were "grind mobs" and "do quests that demand grinding mobs", I didn't like it, but my friends had fun with it, why? because you could level trough pvp and the game mechanincs made possible for players to beat other players of higher level even in 1v1 combat. I hate PvP at the time so I quit the game, months passed and my friends had fun with it and experimented a lot of awesome and funny moments while I grumbled to myself what was the fun of PvPing. Years passed and we began playing another game, when we finally  reached the levle cap we discovered that PvE was abundant but had limits, once you got bored your only option was to PvP, I gave it a try and actually enjoyed the thrill of fighting other players, there were moments of rage, moments of awesome but mostly funny moments. THEN I understood how much of a doche I was and how much fun I didn't experienced because of my stubborness, nowadays I play PvP for fun and challenge (yes I have my rage moments but that's mostly for "fake balance" or outright imbalance which also enrage me in PvE [like a certain game where only 1 class out of 6-10 is useful] ).

THAT is a good argument. And yes, I do admit I am a bit stubborn regarding pvp. But to apply a set of principles of "honor" into a whole community is, if not impossible, than very difficult. And maybe if more people were not as douchie as they are, than maybe I would try pvp more.

But regardless of whether people should stop being stubborn or not, it is not through forcing that you should "incentive" people to play it. What I mean is, if you want to make it more appealing, don't lock stuff for other parts of the game behind it. It is more counter productive than anything. Probably many won't enjoy it because they are doing it out of a sense of obligation. It is not the right way.

Ps.:I would like to play pvp with you, but I truly suck at it. I simply don't enjoy it.

[Naqel]

Nope, DE said PvP stuff won't affect PvE. Apparently people only care about their promises when it's about Excalibur Prime

 

They also said that 2015 was going to be the "year of quality", meanwhile instead of doubling down on fixing bugs and improving the player experience, we have monetized foundry modules, monetized kubrow insurance, monetized slots for underused mods, and relay/player ship mess of an UI that locks half the relevant screens behind loading times due to poor planning. The first actual quality change/improvement is slotted for late November(weapon balance and built in progression).

 

On top of that, PvP not affecting PvE is a bad stance to take, and DE should be called out on it.

If your game needs separate balance for PvP, it's not very well designed or balanced to begin with.

Plus the PvP philosophy of smaller benefits/trade-offs is going to make it's way into PvE anyway. since it's been already mentioned when addressing ways of handling the "mandatory mods" issue.

[[DE]Danielle]

Several posts were removed for burning the tracks this discussion was on. Stay on-topic Tenno, there's no need to start throwing each other under the bus. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

They just need a bridge mode. Something PVE players WANT TO PLAY in PVP. With all the abilities and speed, why not a Tenno Soccer League like Rocket League, I hate PVP, but Rocket League is fantastic. PVP can be fun, it just doesn't have to revolve around capture the flag and team deathmatch. C'mon DE you're sitting on your hands when you could foster in Warframe's version of space quidditch.

[tnccs215]

They just need a bridge mode. Something PVE players WANT TO PLAY in PVP. With all the abilities and speed, why not a Tenno Soccer League like Rocket League, I hate PVP, but Rocket League is fantastic. PVP can be fun, it just doesn't have to revolve around capture the flag and team deathmatch. C'mon DE you're sitting on your hands when you could foster in Warframe's version of space quidditch.

Oh my god. Space Quidditch.

Please, please please please please. I need that in my life. please

[Nazrethim]

THAT is a good argument. And yes, I do admit I am a bit stubborn regarding pvp. But to apply a set of principles of "honor" into a whole community is, if not impossible, than very difficult. And maybe if more people were not as douchie as they are, than maybe I would try pvp more.

But regardless of whether people should stop being stubborn or not, it is not through forcing that you should "incentive" people to play it. What I mean is, if you want to make it more appealing, don't lock stuff for other parts of the game behind it. It is more counter productive than anything. Probably many won't enjoy it because they are doing it out of a sense of obligation. It is not the right way.

Ps.:I would like to play pvp with you, but I truly suck at it. I simply don't enjoy it.

As was stated before: no one is forced to do anything, you can trade and presumably transmute those mods, and if you don't want to spend plat there will be PvPers that accept any other thing in exchange. People just feel forced because is a very different enviroment and gameplay, but that's just fear of what is different, an inherent trait of humanity that we must overcome.

Also, if you want to enter PvP and not being killed over an over, you can practice with PvE content first. Conclave is like fighting a Stalker with the agility of Zanuka and the firepower of G3. Send me a friend request and we can do Conclave together, I can teach you the basics.

 

Also, another (short) story of PvP:

I was in Cephalon Spire (Conclave map that looks like Simulacrum) in a Anihilation (free for all) and at some point 4 players (me included) we meleeing the heck out of each other when a 5th player fired his Paris towards the melee crowd achieving 4 kills with a single arrow by sheer blind luck. I kept laughing my arse off for the rest of the match.

 

 

 

On another note:

By definition of the term, PvP Player versus Player could be any gamemode in which two or more players compete, so Archwing racing, Football, Volleyball or whatever with Cephalons can be considered PvP, so yeah, SpaceSports seem reasonable.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Nazrethim

[Thaumatos]

WHO CARES!? 

Everyone who ever played Warframe as a PvE game cares.  Why do you think there's a new thread made about this almost every day?

 

Way to make yourself sound self-centered to about 90% of the players.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Thaumatos

[vomder]

Several posts were removed for burning the tracks this discussion was on. Stay on-topic Tenno, there's no need to start throwing each other under the bus. 

 

Why didn't we get a comment on this topic with this?

[low1991]

+1 to removal of PvP Mod equippable in PvE obtained only through PvP Gameplay.

+1 to Total removal of PvP from Warframe.

[V0LK]

PvP drains resources that could be used to improve PvE game, and not many people even play it.

[Numbsky1]

Fun fact I have noticed reading several threads concerning pvp that people know each other by name from in game encounters, yet I hardly ever run into a guy in game that I notice from the forums in pve. What does that tell you? That the hard core pvp crowd is actually pretty small perhaps?

Also count the likes people received in this thread and see what picture you get from that.

 

As for resource draining since some months ago each and every patch has a boat load of "conclave changes and additions" yet broken mods in pve receive NO attention at all. Example, the status change mods like Rifle Aptitude, they are terrible and have been since introduction. Making them useful should be easy, just up the bonus but they are not touched. Weapons in need of a buff are not touched as well. DE loses focus more and more.

 

Kubrow ai, still terrible, still no commands for them

Archwing, Elite 20 years ago managed to have a 3d radar, archwing still does not have it.

And the list goes on. 

[-InV-igo95862]

Fun fact I have noticed reading several threads concerning pvp that people know each other by name from in game encounters, yet I hardly ever run into a guy in game that I notice from the forums in pve. What does that tell you? That the hard core pvp crowd is actually pretty small perhaps?

Also count the likes people received in this thread and see what picture you get from that.

 

As for resource draining since some months ago each and every patch has a boat load of "conclave changes and additions" yet broken mods in pve receive NO attention at all. Example, the status change mods like Rifle Aptitude, they are terrible and have been since introduction. Making them useful should be easy, just up the bonus but they are not touched. Weapons in need of a buff are not touched as well. DE loses focus more and more.

 

Kubrow ai, still terrible, still no commands for them

Archwing, Elite 20 years ago managed to have a 3d radar, archwing still does not have it.

And the list goes on. 

 

Most of the Conclave changes are changing numbers. Kubrow AI is a very complex task then changing several values.

 

Besides there is only one person working on Conclave.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

So question how is this any different from the event mods, only available from one thing, it's also limited time(pvp mods arnt) , what if I don't like events then I have to buy them, same arguement really so why only pvp complaints

P.S. I think pvp mods are great and should be useable in pve

[-InV-igo95862]

I expected something like this to happen sooner or later. DE spends so much time and resources on balancing frames and weapons for PVP that almost in every update or hotfix you have conclave changes. At the same time they know that it is very unpopular, so now they want to force it down our throats.

 

One person changing numbers up and down is so many resources.

[Onisa]

There are no PvP only warframes or weapons. You're " mostly unique gear" crap is a flat out lie. You aren't forced to level up new gear. If you're talking about the handful of PvP mods that are terrible and have barely any effect on gameplay then no you're not forced to get and level something that doesn't even really help. Stop spreading incorrect information and acting like its the end of times. Not to mention you get rep win or loose so you literally don't need anything specific at all to get PvP rep.

 

Currently there are only excluded weapons and Warframes, I'll give you that. I will counter that given the emphasis this game put on modding that you gear is more than what is visible on screen during a mission. Ninety five out of one hundred and thirty three mods allowed in conclave are unique to the mode and must be earned through it. That is certainly most, and and even with the included frames probably brings the exclusive gear percentage to about fifty.

 

A good number of the PVP mods available through PVE are stances, btw. I don't think I'm missing a class of melee allowed in conclave from my arsenal, but the possibility exists that there could actually be one hundred and thirty five mods allowed in PVP. Either way, seems like you've got your handful reversed.

 

Though maybe the disparity isn't so pronounced on consoles yet. Then there's the rare case of not actually having the visible gear necessary to go into conclave but that's as much my argument as yours.

[motorfirebox]

See, the issue to me is, I think the PvP mods are awesome. I really want them. I just don't like PvP all that much. Maybe when they reintroduce Dark Sectors, there will be PvE-ish stuff we can do to get PvP rep.

[Thaumatos]

For the record:

 

I like PvP in most games.

 

Just not this one...hitscan and damage amounts coupled with movement makes this game like Warcraft Counterstrike.  It's just terrible...

[Kazzamo]

I'm with the "leave the two worlds apart" crowd here. Don't cross the streams, the day they shut the dark sectors down was one of the happiest ones I had in Warframe.

[HermlT]

Oh god, so much salt here.

 

I honestly do not get why you are all so worked up about mods from pvp being usable in pve.

 

You don't like playing pvp? buy them.

 

You do like playing pvp? now you finally have an incentive to play it in the long run.

same thing with raids. if you don't like getting in a big organized group you can just buy arcanes. no one is stopping you.

 

Pvp content is here to stay and whining about it will not change it.

 

Its your choice what part of the game you play and you get rewards for it accordingly. if you don't like a part of the game and want to skip it and get the reward you can do it via trading. don't expect getting content with 0 effort just because you don't want to play that particular part of the game.

Edited October 31, 2015 by HermlT

[atom]

So question how is this any different from the event mods, only available from one thing, it's also limited time(pvp mods arnt) , what if I don't like events then I have to buy them, same arguement really so why only pvp complaints

P.S. I think pvp mods are great and should be useable in pve

the difference is event mods are within the realm of PvE which the majority of players are here for. not to mention you can even get  then if you play solo. comparing grind/time walls within PvE to the totally different gaming experience/genre of PvP vs PvE is not fair. it's like comparing apples to markets.

 

i think the PvP mods are great too and i wish to see more of them usable in PvE and i hope this is the direction the damage rework is taking. however due to the fact that this is primarily a PvE game and the overwhelming majority of players are here for the co-op aspect everything usable in PvE should be obtainable in PvE.

 

i'm starting to realize that anyone opposing this very reasonable idea has PvP rep and is trying to speculate the sudden high demant and low offer of those mods. naughty naughty 

Edited October 31, 2015 by ..atom..

[HermlT]

 

i'm starting to realize that anyone opposing this very reasonable idea has PvP rep and is trying to speculate the sudden high demant and low offer of those mods. naughty naughty 

 

I think you are missing the bigger thing... players who are opposing to that idea want players to actually play pvp, and not just skip it and get the mods (that are called PVP mods for a reason).

 

It can get lonely in there sometimes.

[atom]

I think you are missing the bigger thing... players who are opposing to that idea want players to actually play pvp, and not just skip it and get the mods (that are called PVP mods for a reason).

 

It can get lonely in there sometimes.

i understand that and i think the reason they put this exclusive PvP thing in is to promote PvP. however they must realize that simply can't be done .. at least not in this way. the majority of players are here for the co-op PvE game exclusively and simply have no interest in PvP in whatever shape way or form. there is no way anyone can make PvP more appealing since it's a totally different type of gameplay for a different type of player.

 

if i'm a vegetarian i'm not going to eat meat no matter how much salad dressing you try to put on it.

[Thrymm]

PvP stuff that you can [optionally] use in PvE. And it's not a big deal, if you don't like certain game mode, you can always trade for the parts (I hate defense missions but I love Ash, so I had to either soldier on and do defense or go to trade chat and get my bp from there)

Why does somebody always go this way?

 

I am (optionally) going to wear pants today, as I (optionally) go to my job.

 

Every last keystroke you do in this game is optional.  There is no mandatory.  And that doesn't mean letting PvP mods into PvE in this game is a good idea.

[Nazrethim]

Why does somebody always go this way?

 

I am (optionally) going to wear pants today, as I (optionally) go to my job.

 

Every last keystroke you do in this game is optional.  There is no mandatory.  And that doesn't mean letting PvP mods into PvE in this game is a good idea.

Cars, computers robots, tv, radio, bikes and FORKS were considered bad at the time they appeared. "Fear of what is different" that's what I say.

 

See, the issue to me is, I think the PvP mods are awesome. I really want them. I just don't like PvP all that much. Maybe when they reintroduce Dark Sectors, there will be PvE-ish stuff we can do to get PvP rep.

If you forsake damage mods in PvE, then yes the PvP mods are awesome. But that doesn't mean those are "Pve mods locked behind PvP", those are absolutely PvP mods locked behind PvP that you can use in PvE for shts and giggles.

As I stated before, PvP is like fighting against Stalkers with the agility of Zanuka and the firepower of G3, except you don't have cheesy weapons that can one-shot them (mostly, but that's a pvp balance issue you probably don't care) nor high amounts of health and shield to tank the damage or the infinite energy to spam abilities. If they introduce a challenge vs an AI enemy that works like that (read: pipedreams) would you participate? after all you wouldn't be playing against another player.

People who participate in Conclave don't do it for the profit of the mods, they do it for fun, or because they are competitive and want to challenge themselves and others and show off their skill.